College for everyone?

[Tabrett]

How do you feel about all the talk last night in the debates about helping people pay or go to college. It seems that the USA thinks that college is a solution for everyone. If everyone gets a college education it is not going to create more high paying, college "level" jobs. There are only so many high paying jobs that require a college degree. I know so many people who have college degrees and can't find jobs in there major area or the money they would make with their degree is not enough to live on.

 

I'm I wrong in saying that if most people have a college degree, it is going to make having a degree worthless?

[Ashleen]

I think having a well-educated population is never worthless (then again, I don't think future income is the best reason to be educated).

[Amy loves Bud]

How do you feel about all the talk last night in the debates about helping people pay or go to college. It seems that the USA thinks that college is a solution for everyone. If everyone gets a college education it is not going to create more high paying, college "level" jobs. There are only so many high paying jobs that require a college degree. I know so many people who have college degrees and can't find jobs in there major area or the money they would make with their degree is not enough to live on.

 

I'm I wrong in saying that if most people have a college degree, it is going to make having a degree worthless?

 

I agree with you. And honestly, I think that with college, the opportunity is there for most people who really want it. It's certainly not an easy path, but so much financial aid exists, and so many good community colleges, that I don't think this is really a spot where the federal government needs to be sticking their noses in right now. But, then, I don't think the federal government needs to have their noses in 90% of the things they do, so I may be biased. :D

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

A college degree is pretty much worthless NOW. I think we should make it easier for kids to go to college. I also think we should improve our high schools and increase the amount of vocational training available at that level so that a high school diploma has worth again. We need to start teaching more math and REAL science starting in Kindergarten and steering kids toward careers in medical research, engineering, energy production, etc. etc. etc. We need to let high ability kids accelerate their educations so they are able to get more specialized training before graduation instead of having to wait until college. College level courses should be available to all qualified elementary, middle, and high school students. I could go on and on.

 

I don't think anybody is proposing that college is the answer for everyone. However, it should be a lot easier for those who WANT to go to college to do so.

[threetreasurs]

<<I don't think anybody is proposing that college is the answer for everyone. However, it should be a lot easier for those who WANT to go to college to do so.>>

 

I agree!:iagree:

 

The GI bill helped many go to college after WWII that might not have been able - and the results were positive for most.

[dasschus]

While I agree that a good education is very important, if everyone has a college degree then it becomes almost meaningless.

I was talking to my mother a few days ago and she was telling me that when she was younger if you had taken any college classes then you could get a decent paying job. Today it seems that a college degree isn't as "special" as it once was. Maybe that's an inaccurate observation.

 

Last night I was finishing up the WTM (which put me into a huge panic mode as my daughter prepares to enter 8th grade without a classical education!) and it mentioned how a high school degree isn't quite as important as it used to be. Please undertstand, I know she wasn't saying that high school isn't important but that the piece of paper doesn't have the same weight as it used to have.

 

I don't know how to answer your question. If I had to predict, I would think that if everyone had a college degree then it wouldn't be quite an accomplishment. Employers would look for someone who stood out by having a Masters Degreee.

And, like you said, not every job even requires a degree.

My husband doesn't have a college degree. He started out in a print room and read computer manuals and asked questions and worked during lunch and after hours to teach himself how to do different things. Eventually he moved up and up until he became a lead software support and designer in an engineering firm. Yes, I am proud of him. :D I think it all depends on how motivated you are and you will go far.

 

OK. Off to do school with the kiddos so that they can get into a good college. :001_smile:

Kelly

[Ellie]

No, not everyone needs a college degree. And it isn't the government's job to be involved in that discussion, anyway.

[HRAAB]

First off, I don't believe everyone is well suited to college. My oldest might be one of these. She's starting her 2nd semester, and I'm not sure that some other type of post high school path would be better for her. Time will tell.

 

I don't think having a well-educated population is ever worthless, either. I think you mean the more common the 4 yr degree becomes, the less value it will carry. I don't know. In my dh's field, it started off way back when that some college and experience was all that was needed. Then they wanted 4 yr. degrees. Then a masters seemed to be the goal. Then his job was outsourced to India "because they have all these amazing college educated workers over there, and those resources need to be mined". That came from the head of his department. I'm sure money is the biggest motivating factor there, but whatever.

 

I really don't know what I think. One thing I know for sure, paying for college is getting to be more and more of stretch for us. Even attending our local state university and just paying fees is a stretch. Our two older girls are paying most of their fees, and we're helping out as we can. I think it's money well spent and a good investment, but there's only so much we can pay.

 

Janet

[Josie]

And it isn't the government's job to be involved in that discussion, anyway.

 

This isn't within the realm of governmental authority, so it shouldn't be an issue for the government!

[Murphy101]

There's many different issues in this:

 

#1 what a college degree is worth is based on the knowledge attained, not the dollar of the job attained. Knowledge is power. College is one way to attain knowledge.

 

#2 many times a college degree is worthless NOW because they are dumber degrees than they used to be. (Please don't stone me for saying it!) IOW, the knowledge attained is less than it used to be. An associates is now what a high school diploma used to be, imho. MANY jobs that used to only require a high school diploma now require at least an associates. No the jobs aren't great paying, but they are a job vs not having the job.

 

#3 there's a difference between saying "everyone should be able to attend college" and "everyone should attend college". I think for those that do want to go and are interested in a higher level of academics - they should have the opportunity and society would benefit from it. There will always be those that don't want or are not suited to college. That's fine too.

[Melissa in CA]

I have not read all the posts, and I have not watched any of the debates (No television here), and perhaps what I am going to say has nothing to do with what you are talking about, but having two boys in college is EXPENSIVE!!

 

What is so incredibly frustrating is that because my husband makes a decent living ($70,000 a year) my boys are not eligible for any type of aid for school. None. Tuition, over-priced books, parking permits, etc., all have to come out of our pocket. My boys both have jobs so they are able to help, but with the cost of car insurance and gas to and from school, they cannot help much. Yet, there are thousands of kids at the school from lower income families who get a free ride all the way through. A. Free. Ride. And what is the MOST frustrating is many of them skip classes repeatedly, don't bother to study, etc. Some just don't care. They see this as their "right" not as the wonderful FREE opportunity to better themselves handed to them on a silver platter. :glare: It makes me angry. Truly.

 

My boys actually WANT to better themselves. They study hard, would never THINK of skipping out on a class, and are doing very well. I personally think those getting the free ride should have to somehow 'prove' themselves worthy of it. I'm not talking EARNED scholarships here, I am talking about someone going to the college from a low income family and just flat out getting a free ride only because they are considered low income. Makes no good sense to me.

 

OK, rant over....you can go back to your previously scheduled program. :D

[Margaret in GA]

As Obama talked about the college thing last night I was wishing he would clarify his statements a little. I think we should be able to send all kids to college who want to and are able to go. However, I believe that the way to do that is college loans. Believe it or not, they are very hard to get right now. NPR has run several wonderful stories about kids who graduate college at the top of their classes and cannot go to a college or university because of lack of funds. Not just scholarships, but loans. To me, this is a real shame. Scholarships and Grants are great things, but loans bridge the gap for many people to begin making an investment in their future.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents. Also, I'm a firm believer in Tech schools! College truly is not for everyone.

 

Margaret

[Delighted3]

Our son just started college this fall. We have always made it clear to our kids that we were not going to pay for them to go to college and so if they wanted to go, they needed to study hard and do well in school so they could get scholarships or be prepared to work to pay for it themselves.

Well, it seems that our son has the opportunities to pay for school a couple of times over. He did very well on his ACT and was offered a full tuition scholarship to a university near where we live. He was offered student loans which he was able to turn down because he lives at home and didn't need the money. He recently switched jobs and they offer tuition reimbursement which he won't get because he literally has no expenses that aren't paid, but if his grades ever drop, he will have that money available to fall back on.

I think there are a lot of choices and ways for people who want to go to college to pay for them. Scholarships, grants, loans, community colleges, work studies, or job reimbursements can all be possibilities. I know that college is a struggle for a lot of people to be able to afford, but I am not sure it should be made too easy, because in my opinion anything worth having (college diploma) is worth working hard for.

[Tabrett]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the politicians seem to think education will solve some type of job dilemma in our country. I love education and have no problem with it being free and available to everybody, but I don't think it's going to solve any problems we have in America. I feel like people believe that if they can just get their dc through college they will be set for life with a good job and that is just not true.

Again, more well educated people does not equal MORE high paying jobs.

 

Is America really that behind in education? Considering in a lot of countries most people don't even HAVE the privilege to go to school?

[RoughCollie]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009535

 

I think a person's IQ has a lot to do with whether s/he can succeed in college. There are other factors, too, of course. This article basically sums up my point of view, so I linked to it. I don't have time to research the issue in depth right now. I have a lot of college education and I have taught at a college, and I do not believe that many of the students who attend need to be there or can do the work required of them. What use is it to go to law school, for example, if you cannot pass the bar exam after taking it six times? What use is it to get a bachelor's degree in English or the humanities, if you can go to any large company and find tons of secretaries with degrees like that?

 

I have told my children that if they go to college and want to get a degree in the humanities (which I think is worthwhile for reasons that have nothing to do with making a living), that they should double-major in something that will help them get a job that pays more and is more satisfying than a job they could get without a degree. Otherwise, why bother to go to college when you can teach humanities to yourself if you are so inclined? My mom is self-educated and I think I could pit her knowledge against that of any college graduate in the humanities and she would come out on top.

 

For that matter, a large percentage of homeschoolers are self-educated. I certainly never took an education course, yet I managed to teach four children to read by learning how to do that myself. I taught my children math after studying curricula and reading books on the subject -- which I could do because I learned math in college, but my high school math probably would have sufficed especially in the elementary school years. How many of you have learned a lot via self-education mostly due to being homeschoolers? I bet there are tons of us.

 

I don't think everyone can succeed college or needs to go to college. Some people are smart enough to make millions without a college education. My brother, for example, has a high IQ, a lot of ideas, tons of motivation, and is willing to work hard and pay the opportunity cost necessary to become a successful, honest businessman. He has an associate's degree that has not helped him one whit in his occupation (although it was designed to help him in his former line of work). Others would do well to train for a vocation. Others will never do anything to make much above minimum wage, not always because they are not mentally capable, but also because they are not willing to do the work and make the sacrifices necessary to better themselves financially.

 

Not everyone is willing or able to pay the opportunity cost to succeed on their own terms. It involves giving up a lot in the present to gain a lot in the future. Too frequently, I find that the opportunity cost is minimized by those who are envious of other's success, in whatever form that success takes, but that is because the envious are not willing to do the hard work and pay the price for the success they envy.

 

Education is not a panacea for our country's social and employment problems, in my view. The fact is that we are not all equal in terms of what we can intellectually accomplish, for reasons of both nature and nurture.

 

RC

Edited October 8, 2008 by RoughCollie

[Mama Lynx]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the politicians seem to think education will solve some type of job dilemma in our country. I love education and have no problem with it being free and available to everybody, but I don't think it's going to solve any problems we have in America. I feel like people believe that if they can just get their dc through college they will be set for life with a good job and that is just not true.

Again, more well educated people does not equal MORE high paying jobs.

 

Is America really that behind in education? Considering in a lot of countries most people don't even HAVE the privilege to go to school?

 

I think they see education not only the savior of our job issues, but also a class leveler.

 

Some jobs you just don't need college for. We need people in the professions, and we need people in the jobs you don't need college for, as well. My husband is in a profession that requires a degree ... but he doesn't have one :D And my education is not wasted, but my degree is not marketable, either. Not like his expertise is.

 

I do think the opportunities are there for most people to go to college, if they are willing to work hard at it. I think "college for all" will render college degrees worthless; then an MA or MS will be what the better jobs want.

 

Like someone else said .... JediArts, maybe? I think it should be available to all, and accessible to all (though I think it's pretty accessible now, though cost is a problem), but not required. And I think we should make more of an effort to understand that college does not equal smarter, that college does not equal more qualified - that intelligent and capable people sometimes choose to not go to college, or can't and educate themselves anyway. And I think we should make more of an effort to not stigmatize jobs that do not require a degree.

[Tabrett]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009535

 

I think a person's IQ has a lot to do with whether s/he can succeed in college. There are other factors, too. This article basically sums up my point of view, so I linked to it. I don't have time to research the issue in depth right now.

 

RC

Thanks! That article is excellent!

[OhM]

Don't know if I saw this here or on another hsing list. He makes some great points about motivation. It's not college that makes you successful, it's you who makes you successful!

[cathmom]

 

Yet, there are thousands of kids at the school from lower income families who get a free ride all the way through. A. Free. Ride. And what is the MOST frustrating is many of them skip classes repeatedly, don't bother to study, etc. Some just don't care. They see this as their "right" not as the wonderful FREE opportunity to better themselves handed to them on a silver platter. :glare: It makes me angry. Truly.

 

Do you have documentation of this? Studies? Is this anecdotal evidence based on students your sons know? I would really like to know the basis for the statements you made here.

 

My boys actually WANT to better themselves. They study hard, would never THINK of skipping out on a class, and are doing very well. I personally think those getting the free ride should have to somehow 'prove' themselves worthy of it. I'm not talking EARNED scholarships here, I am talking about someone going to the college from a low income family and just flat out getting a free ride only because they are considered low income. Makes no good sense to me.

 

OK, rant over....you can go back to your previously scheduled program. :D

 

I believe that most scholarships have a grade requirement component - if your gpa falls below a certain point, you lose the money.

 

I am very surprised that a family making only 70K with 2 boys in college doesn't qualify for any aid!

[Melissa in CA]

Scholarships and Grants are great things, but loans bridge the gap for many people to begin making an investment in their future.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents. Also, I'm a firm believer in Tech schools! College truly is not for everyone.

 

Margaret

 

My oldest son looked into a trade school here in our town before deciding to go the college route. The trade school would have gotten him his degree quicker, but at a RIDICULOUSLY expensive cost--over triple the price for the same degree at our community college. We could have gotten a loan, no problem, we have excellent credit, but it would have been our loan...dh's and mine...not my son's as he is not yet 25. Apparently that is the magical age in California for students to take responsibility for their own school debt. A Thirty-Thousand plus loan was not something my dh and I wanted to take on thankyouverymuch. (and with the current economy, I am so glad we didn't!) ;)

 

Oh, and they offered all kinds of grants...but not to anyone Caucasian.:glare: Had he been African American, or Latino, he'd probably be going to Trade School right now.

[RoughCollie]

An article about college dropout rates -- admittedly not the best source, but I have to stop this fun and clean and cook.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10053859/

 

I have met plenty of free-ride people who are either dropouts or who cannot pass entrance tests to their professions, like law for example.

 

It makes me mad when someone is led to believe, due to political tinkering and thinking, that they can succeed, and then when they fail they can't figure out why or how that could have happened. Fact is, they were never qualified to begin with for many reasons.

 

It made me very angry when I could not get an academic scholarship in undergraduate school, even though my gpa was in the top 5% of 26,000 students. I was told I was the wrong color and not poor enough. I supported myself through school by working 55 hours a week and attending college either full-time or more than full-time. Even though I made barely enough to live on, I was still not poor enough.

 

Times have not changed enough in the intervening decades. IMO, academic excellence should be rewarded, period.

 

RC

Edited October 8, 2008 by RoughCollie

[Melissa in CA]

Do you have documentation of this? Studies? Is this anecdotal evidence based on students your sons know? I would really like to know the basis for the statements you made here.[/Quote]

 

No, no documentation whatsoever. I'm afraid I am just going by statements from students, and workers at the college who I personally know. I am not saying low income families should not be given the opportunity, but that there should be some guidelines so the students will not take advantage of the system.

 

I believe that most scholarships have a grade requirement component - if your gpa falls below a certain point, you lose the money.

 

You are probably right. I personally wouldn't know. ;)

 

I am very surprised that a family making only 70K with 2 boys in college doesn't qualify for any aid!

 

Yeah, that makes two of us... But keep in mind, we are taking about community college here. Perhaps if they were attending a university aid would be available? Just one, one, of my sons classes this semester cost $500 with tuition and books, and he is taking three. My other son is taking two. I know that is a drop in the bucket compared to university. But when ya don't have it, ya don't have it, KWIM? We manage though, and I am truly thankful for that.

 

My boys are very responsible with their money and pay as much as they can for school...but they both own cars, that need gas, [$3.59 a gallon here in CA] are required by CA law to have car insurance [$75 per month per boy], and have constant car troubles...tires, brakes, new motor! etc. They also buy all their own clothes, and pay their own cell phone bill...all on minimum wage 30 hour a week jobs. They are forever complaining that they never have any fun money. I say...welcome to LIFE! :lol:

 

In closing, I guess my pet peeve is those who get something for nothing, and don't appreciate it.

[cathmom]

Melissa, I think that if both your boys were full time students at a 4 year university, you would get aid. Did you fill out a FAFSA form? It gives you an estimated family contribution, and then colleges usually try to make up the rest through grants or loans.

[HRAAB]

I keep hearing about people getting a free ride through college (other than a full-ride scholarship), but I've never met one IRL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've never actually met one. How do they get it????

 

We make less than $70,000. have 6 people currently living in our house, and our dd received no financial aid. Maybe we're doing something wrong?

 

Our girls must have listened very well to our lectures about not borrowing money, because they're bound and determined to not take out any loans. Unfortunately, there's no way they can make it through school without loans. Isn't going to happen. They've both chosen to go to the local state university where they only have to pay fees, but even at that, it adds up. Plus, they are responsible for their own gas and car insurance.

 

Both my dh and I went to the same university - 30 years ago :001_huh: - and were easily able to work part-time and pay for school as we went. Dh lived at home through college; I moved out after a couple years but still didn't have to borrow money. The increases have just left us speechless. We were truly out of touch. It's doable, but much harder financially than it was back when....

 

Janet

[Melissa in CA]

I think it is unfair to point to poor people and say they are getting a free ride.

 

Well...gosh...what would you call it then? :001_huh: Perhaps this is different in each state? I just know that where I live in CA, if you are low income you pretty much get to go to community college free of charge, or if not free, then at a huge discount. I also know that if we were of a different race, we could get grants and special scholarships...but we're white and middle class...so the only hope for us is an academic scholarship. Long story short...we're on our own.

 

I had a girlfriend on welfare who got pregnant by some guy...she was not sure of the father's identity...and got herself a free-ride. She went to college on a government loan that she never has to pay back. Ever. She went to school on and off, but never did do anything with her schooling. Just dropped out completely. In fact, I used to watch her child while she went to school. That is, until I found out that while I was watching her mentally disabled son for a mere .50 cents an hour out of the kindness of my heart, she was not actually at school at all....she was seen all over town SHOPPING! She had more clothes and better food than my family ever dreamed of at that time...all paid for by the government! Here I thought I was helping her out, and she, instead, was taking advantage of not only me, but the system. She thought it was her due to get a free ride. She was a single mother for heavens sake and it was the governments responsibility to help her. Honestly, that was her mentality, and it's unfortunately the mentality of many people these days.

 

I won't go into the story of another acquaintance who went out and purposely got pregnant by a stranger in order to keep her government free-ride when her other baby, with no father, grew too old for government funding.

 

We've created a society of me-me's. :tongue_smilie:

[PinkInTheBlue]

I think a well educated society would be wonderful but I don't call everyone who walks out of a college with a degree "well educated". Unfortunately I'd say most people walk out of college in much the same condition they walked in. People who come out well educated are there because they have a purpose and goal. A shameful majority go because it's what is next in what their parents/society expect of them and it's what their buddies are doing. College tends to be one more step in avoiding growing up. This isn't true for all but for many.

 

If you make if available for all then you simply confirm it's the next step of high school. You might as well call it grades 13 - 16. Also, like others have said, if everyone has it then it's no longer special. It's no longer a measurement of someone who did something special.

 

I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm just saying I don't believe it would help anything.

 

Last point: a significant amount of the college graduates I know aren't using their college degree in their occupation anyway. I know in the past we've had informal polls of who used or is using their college degree and the same was true. (not counting the fact most of us are in home teachers; I mean before that)

Edited October 8, 2008 by PinkInTheBlue

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

....many of them skip classes repeatedly, don't bother to study, etc.

 

This was me for pretty much my 1st 2 years of college. I used to play cards in the back of some of my classes when I did go (the days before texting). I had a 3.8 GPA and I didn't take what were considered "gimmee" courses either. So not everyone who skips class and doesn't study much doesn't care, some people just don't need to for every class.

[Melissa in CA]

Melissa, I think that if both your boys were full time students at a 4 year university, you would get aid. Did you fill out a FAFSA form? It gives you an estimated family contribution, and then colleges usually try to make up the rest through grants or loans.

 

Yes, I will definitely have to look into that when our middle son is ready to transfer to a University. He wants to be an engineer, but decided to take his prerequisites (the proper word escapes me at the moment) at our community college to save money. They have a sequence of classes designed just for his major so this works well for him. He'll be there for about two years and then his HOPE is some kind of scholarship to Cal-Poly. If no scholarship, then we'll have to seek money...somewhere. Beg, borrow, and...steal? :lol:

 

Oldest son will only need to transfer if he decides to seek a Masters in Nursing. He is NOT my academic one though; I think he'll be quite happy if he gets his Bachelors. Time will tell. ;)

Edited October 8, 2008 by Melissa in CA

[Melissa in CA]

So not everyone who skips class and doesn't study much doesn't care, some people just don't need to for every class.

 

You're right. Good point. :D

[Katrina]

I think college should be accessable for everyone that wants to attend, but I know for a fact not everyone does. Most of my family is blue collar workers who had opportunities to go to college but chose not to.

 

We do need to do what we can to encourage higher learning in science and math. But it should be those that are inspired to.

 

Okay, here's a question purely for discussion. If everyone in America has college degrees, who's going to do our blue collar jobs? I know my dh wouldn't want to be a construction worker after spending four years getting an engeneering degree. I've heard Pres. Bush say the same thing, people need to go to college to get better jobs, and I thought it was to avoid addressing all the jobs going overseas.

[Tabrett]

I think college should be accessable for everyone that wants to attend, but I know for a fact not everyone does. Most of my family is blue collar workers who had opportunities to go to college but chose not to.

 

We do need to do what we can to encourage higher learning in science and math. But it should be those that are inspired to.

 

Okay, here's a question purely for discussion. If everyone in America has college degrees, who's going to do our blue collar jobs? I know my dh wouldn't want to be a construction worker after spending four years getting an engineering degree. I've heard Pres. Bush say the same thing, people need to go to college to get better jobs, and I thought it was to avoid addressing all the jobs going overseas.

This is the reason I started the post. "Go to College to get a good Job." I hear it over and over and over!!!! What are these "good jobs". Do "good jobs" exist? And if my dc get one, what is going to stop it from going over seas? As soon as we create a good job in America some other country say they can have their people do it for pennies on the dollar then Bye, Bye good job. It use to be only manufacturing jobs we lost. Jobs that didn't need education, but now we loose jobs that you have to be educated for like computer technicians and accountants. If the government takes over the health care system and nationalizes it, bye, bye good salaries in the health care field. We may have plenty of jobs in America, but working at Walmart or other retail and hospitality jobs is not going to support families. And going to college is not going to create and mantain good paying jobs.

[Melissa in CA]

If the government takes over the health care system and nationalizes it, bye, bye good salaries in the health care field. We may have plenty of jobs in America, but working at Walmart or other retail and hospitality jobs is not going to support families. And going to college is not going to create and maintain good paying jobs.

 

Yeah, don't mention this to my son. His goal is RN in some type of specialized field (he's thinking Cardiology). He's HOPING this will support a family someday; his current job at Kmart sure wouldn't!

 

I worry about this next generation and how they will ever be able to support themselves, a wife, children, buy a home...

 

And we NEED the blue collar workers! They keep this country running! What would we do without the road workers, carpenters, trash haulers, mailmen...the list goes on. What really irks me is how little the average school teacher makes. I have two nieces who are teachers and barely make 30,000 a year. That sure seems piddly for all the schooling they went through and the continued hoops a teacher in CA must jump through to keep their credentials. Bah!

[cathmom]

My son is in college on a full scholarship, part merit-based, part income-based. Our expected family contribution was 0, and honestly, that's about what we could contribute. As for how he got the scholarship, he worked hard in high school, jumped through all the hoops, filled out all the forms, took all the tests, applied to 6 different colleges, and was then offered a full scholarship - no loans, no work-study - to a nearby state school. The other school he was accepted to gave him a decent amount of scholarships, but he would have graduated with 30K in debt and had to work like a dog all the time. He's not stupid and went with the full ride.

 

Also, my ds does not have a car. Cars are expensive. In this day and age, it may be cheaper to live on campus and NOT commute. My ds doesn't even have his license because our state doesn't give a discount for a driver being away at college. We can't afford to pay nearly triple the insurance for someone who isn't even driving our cars!

 

He studies very hard, works very hard. He is taking 6 classes even though he didn't have to. He is writing for the student newspaper and saving that money that he earns.

 

So I guess we are one of the low income people getting a free ride that you dislike. Flame away if you want.

[Melissa in CA]

My son is in college on a full scholarship, part merit-based, part income-based. Our expected family contribution was 0, and honestly, that's about what we could contribute. As for how he got the scholarship, he worked hard in high school, jumped through all the hoops, filled out all the forms, took all the tests, applied to 6 different colleges, and was then offered a full scholarship - no loans, no work-study - to a nearby state school. The other school he was accepted to gave him a decent amount of scholarships, but he would have graduated with 30K in debt and had to work like a dog all the time. He's not stupid and went with the full ride.

 

Also, my ds does not have a car. Cars are expensive. In this day and age, it may be cheaper to live on campus and NOT commute. My ds doesn't even have his license because our state doesn't give a discount for a driver being away at college. We can't afford to pay nearly triple the insurance for someone who isn't even driving our cars!

 

He studies very hard, works very hard. He is taking 6 classes even though he didn't have to. He is writing for the student newspaper and saving that money that he earns.

 

So I guess we are one of the low income people getting a free ride that you dislike. Flame away if you want.

 

Your situation and your sons diligence are not what I am referring too, Cathmom. You'll get no flames from me. ;)

 

I have no problem with people getting full scholarships when they have worked for them and appreciate them. If a college offered my son a full scholarship you better believe he'd accept. But because he is an average student at best, he was not eligible for any merit-based scholarships. Learning comes very hard for him and he has to work twice as hard as most kids to get good grades...and he's doing it. I am very proud of his college grades so far. :D

 

I also have no problem with special scholarships for low income situations. My problem with that, as I have mentioned ad nauseam, is that many get them ONLY because they have a particular skin color and/or low income and somehow feel it is their "right" because they were born into a poor family. When that warped thinking starts to become the norm there is something terribly wrong. On the other side of the coin, some see it is an absolute blessing and appreciate the opportunity to better themselves.

 

I personally know of a situation where a girl, who signed up for a college program with a waiting list of several months, got called immediately after putting in her paperwork because, and these are her words, "I had the right last name!" They thought she was ethnic because of her last name (she wasn't!), so she got pushed to the front of the list. Tell me there is not something a bit wrong with that? What about the girl who has been waiting patiently for acceptance, but unfortunately has the last name of Smith? :confused: This particular girl also got a free ride because of said last name; she didn't have to pay a dime the whole time she was in school. She worked hard though, got excellent grades, and actually made something of herself. So a free-ride is not always a bad thing. :D

 

Oh, how about this one!...not related to school, but rather the warped thinking...I have even known men who REFUSE to work because they would then lose their Welfare check and the Welfare check they get is more than they would get from working. :001_huh: OR, they will work but only for under-the-table-paid jobs like carrot picking or cleaning up construction sites so they can still keep their Welfare check coming.

 

Is this really just a CA thing??? I am beginning to wonder. :blink:

 

And before someone blasts me about welfare and how many need the help. I agree! I have several family members who have been very blessed by it in great times of need. But they also didn't stay on it any longer than needed!

Edited October 9, 2008 by Melissa in CA