next gardening questions

[ProudGrandma]

quickly I received the results of mulch over rock (which was my gut feeling too, but I have a friend who just brought in a huge load of river rock for their garden spaces right around their house...so I was just wanting to explore other ideas)

 

so, mulch it is.

 

now....do you put landscaping material below your mulch...or how do you keep the weeds at bay?  If so, how many layers? What kind? 

 

do you vary the color and type of mulch you use...or is it all the same?  I am thinking about buying a palette so it would be all the same....will that be boring?

 

How thick is your mulch? 

 

 

now to some non-mulch questions:

 

I have I very large flower garden space a several smaller ones (mostly around the house an garage).  My biggest weed issue is grass.

 

I have dug it up, I have used products like "grass B gone" on it...but it still comes back...and my biggest garden is FULL of it.  About 2 years ago, I dug up all of the plants that mattered, dug up the grass and tried to get all of the roots and now it doesn't looked like it has been cared for in about 10 years.  Because of the size of the garden to do that again, would be quite a task...unless I had a better plan of attack.   So please give me one.  :) 

 

I have one side of our house that the previous owners laid white rock out.  That has been over 18 years ago, so much of the rock is gone (probably just under the soil a bit) but there is still enough there.  To remove it would be horrible...so what other options might I have?  I have some low to the ground sedum growing over part of it...so I am thinking about trying to get it to continue to cover that area...but I was wondering if I had any other options.

 

thanks for your assistance in this.  

 

 

[gardenmom5]

Landscape fabric is only helpful for a year AT MOST. Weed seeds and roots will go right through it.

 

It also makes it harder to water.

 

Tbh, I consider it a waste of time and money.

[ProudGrandma]

so then how do you keep the weeds away?

[Stratford]

I dunno.  We put down landscape fabric when we landscaped our newly built house 8 years ago.  The areas we used it are still weed free, the areas where we didn't are a pain in the rear to maintain.  I think it made a big difference.

 

 

 

 

[Happy]

Step away from the landscape fabric!!!!

 

I laid some in my new beds several years ago. BIG mistake! In those beds, it's now about six inches beneath the soil...yes, it's those layers of mulch becoming rich soil. Anytime we want to plant something we must first pierce the fabric and pull it out. Not easy. I hate landscape fabric.

 

A much better method I use now is known as lasagna gardening. We cut the grass short (if doing a new bed), lightly till (or not, depending on how aggressive I'm feeling.) and lay down a thick layer of newspaper. Lightly wet the paper as you go and layer mulch over the top. Easy, peasy....and it does a good job of keeping weeds at bay.  You can easily plant new plants anytime. The first year or so you've got to watch for weed or grass outbreaks, but it does a good job. Don't hesitate to lay the newspaper on thickly. It gently decomposes over the next few years. I try not to use the colored inserts much, but I have heard the inks used today are non-toxic.

 

Weeds....there will always be weeds, if there is water, sun, and soil available. Always. Mulching helps cut down on the amount of weeds and makes it easier to weed them. I use a scuffle hoe that slides beneath the mulch and rips the little weeds out. I do weed patrol a couple of times a week. If you can get a handle on the weeds early in the spring, it's never a difficult job the rest of the summer.

 

Happy dirt manicure!

 

ETA my scuffle hoe looks like a stirrup, in case you are googling.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Happy

[wendy not in HI]

I used newspaper to keep away weeds when establishing my garden when we lived in South Dakota.

 

First I dug up the grass/weeds in the garden bed.  Then I planted the plants.  Then I got a bucket of water and filled it with newspaper and water, and spread out the newspaper all around the plants and all over the garden beds.  I kept the paper a few pages thick.  Then we spread mulch (actually the finest compost from the dump) over the newspaper.  I had picked up the mulch a few days before so it was ready to go.  Don't spread the newspaper without the mulch handy, or you will have newspaper blowing all over the place when it dries....  The mulch was "hot", so we kept it back from the plants for a week, then it was fine to tuck right up to the plants. 

 

I had zero weeds during year one.

 

At year two, I weeded through in the early spring and put down fresh mulch (from the dump) and had very few weeds. There was very little of the newspaper left. 

 

At year 3, I had more weeds than before, so I weeded through, then added newspaper to the areas where the weeds seemed to be worst, and spread mulch over the newspaper and the rest of the garden beds.  Nearly weed-free.  (I did have a problem in one area with morning glory, so I painted roundup on some of those runners.  That really helped.  I hate that stuff!)

 

Then we moved...

 

This was a very large garden across one side of the house and around half of the back side of the house, about 3-5 feet deep.  Mostly perennials.  At year 3 I was able to split lots of my plants and fill in the garden, as well as start another garden bed, and give some away.  I love perennials!

 

Also, when we first moved in and started digging weeds in an established garden bed, the weeds were all tangled up in black plastic.  That stuff was horrible.  It made weeding sooo much harder!  We had to both weed and yank up the terrible black plastic weed cloth.  Stay away from that stuff!!

[Happy]

I used newspaper to keep away weeds when establishing my garden when we lived in South Dakota.

 

First I dug up the grass/weeds in the garden bed.  Then I planted the plants.  Then I got a bucket of water and filled it with newspaper and water, and spread out the newspaper all around the plants and all over the garden beds.  I kept the paper a few pages thick.  Then we spread mulch (actually the finest compost from the dump) over the newspaper.  I had picked up the mulch a few days before so it was ready to go.  Don't spread the newspaper without the mulch handy, or you will have newspaper blowing all over the place when it dries....  The mulch was "hot", so we kept it back from the plants for a week, then it was fine to tuck right up to the plants. 

 

I had zero weeds during year one.

 

At year two, I weeded through in the early spring and put down fresh mulch (from the dump) and had very few weeds. There was very little of the newspaper left. 

 

At year 3, I had more weeds than before, so I weeded through, then added newspaper to the areas where the weeds seemed to be worst, and spread mulch over the newspaper and the rest of the garden beds.  Nearly weed-free.  (I did have a problem in one area with morning glory, so I painted roundup on some of those runners.  That really helped.  I hate that stuff!)

 

Then we moved...

 

This was a very large garden across one side of the house and around half of the back side of the house, about 3-5 feet deep.  Mostly perennials.  At year 3 I was able to split lots of my plants and fill in the garden, as well as start another garden bed, and give some away.  I love perennials!

 

Also, when we first moved in and started digging weeds in an established garden bed, the weeds were all tangled up in black plastic.  That stuff was horrible.  It made weeding sooo much harder!  We had to both weed and yank up the terrible black plastic weed cloth.  Stay away from that stuff!!

 

Perennials are awesome! I spent a few years gardening, building new beds, and generally having fun. I always did a strong mix of perennials and annuals....then one year I had a bad health year. It was so wonderful to walk in my gardens and see all those perennials blooming throughout the spring and summer. I didn't plant any annuals that year (well, maybe a few in pots) but I had flowers never the less.

[MEmama]

I like lasagna gardening too. If I'm in a hurry, I throw down pieces of cardboard and cover it with a thick layer of mulch. It breaks down eventually but does a great job smothering weeds in walkways and between plants, in my yard, anyway. And like the mulch, it's good for the soil and encourages earthworms.

[gardenmom5]

so then how do you keep the weeds away?

 

minimum of 3" thick layers of mulch.

 

eta: and dense groundcovers.  they will keep the soil cool, retain moisture, and choke out weeds.  and water will easily penetrate most. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by gardenmom5

[ProudGrandma]

I like lasagna gardening too. If I'm in a hurry, I throw down pieces of cardboard and cover it with a thick layer of mulch. It breaks down eventually but does a great job smothering weeds in walkways and between plants, in my yard, anyway. And like the mulch, it's good for the soil and encourages earthworms.

when you say cardboard...do you mean broken down boxes? I have lots of boxes in my basement that will need to go some place...but I can see weeds finding their way through the cracks in the boxes...(around the flaps).

[ProudGrandma]

minimum of 3" thick layers of mulch.

 

eta: and dense groundcovers.  they will keep the soil cool, retain moisture, and choke out weeds.  and water will easily penetrate most. 

 

 

can you please give me some examples of dense ground covers for zone 5?

[Happy]

A few other thoughts....(because this is more fun than mopping the kitchen floor or updating my database...)

 

We use pine bark nuggets in pathways. Hardwood mulch goes in all beds. Cedar mulch goes on top of the hardwood in places where I have sitting areas...beneath the porch swing or the strip right in front of the front porch where a wicker couch lives. All the close beds to the back porch get a topping of cedar because it helps keep bugs away. During an ant invasion a few years ago, we did a six inch wide, three inch deep strip of cedar all around the house. I thought it helped some.

 

I have one bed on the side of the house where we put black mulch. I think we got a deal on some broken bags one year. We keep that one black...and I must say the black mulch is very dramatic and pretty.

 

Grass in the flowerbeds. UGH.  From time to time, it happens. My DH will take Round UP and use a foam brush to paint the grass in the beds. It works. It's tedious and I hate messing with chemicals, but it works.

[ProudGrandma]

A few other thoughts....(because this is more fun than mopping the kitchen floor or updating my database...)

 

We use pine bark nuggets in pathways. Hardwood mulch goes in all beds. Cedar mulch goes on top of the hardwood in places where I have sitting areas...beneath the porch swing or the strip right in front of the front porch where a wicker couch lives. All the close beds to the back porch get a topping of cedar because it helps keep bugs away. During an ant invasion a few years ago, we did a six inch wide, three inch deep strip of cedar all around the house. I thought it helped some.

 

I have one bed on the side of the house where we put black mulch. I think we got a deal on some broken bags one year. We keep that one black...and I must say the black mulch is very dramatic and pretty.

 

Grass in the flowerbeds. UGH.  From time to time, it happens. My DH will take Round UP and use a foam brush to paint the grass in the beds. It works. It's tedious and I hate messing with chemicals, but it works.

I hate chemicals too...but tell me more about using round up with a foam brush.  Do you literally mean, taking a foam paint brush and a cup of round up and putting round up on the leaves of the grass?  Will it kill anything else? 

 

Since the grass is REALLY bad in one part of the garden, could I take the important plants out, and round up the grass (by spraying)?  How long would I have to wait before replanting the plants? 

 

Just trying to look at all of my options.

[Happy]

when you say cardboard...do you mean broken down boxes? I have lots of boxes in my basement that will need to go some place...but I can see weeds finding their way through the cracks in the boxes...(around the flaps).

Overlap those edges

[MEmama]

when you say cardboard...do you mean broken down boxes? I have lots of boxes in my basement that will need to go some place...but I can see weeds finding their way through the cracks in the boxes...(around the flaps).

Yep. Broken down Amazon or moving boxes, whatever you have on hand. Double layer over the cracks. Recycling at its finest! :)

 

If you are too lazy or forget to remove the tape from box seams, you'll get to pull it out of your garden in a couple years. Ahem. It's worth it to remove it first. ;)

[Truscifi]

We also use cardboard boxes instead of landscape fabric. Overlap the edges by quite a bit and you shouldn't have a lot of weeds grow through. Also we aim for 6" of mulch. It compresses and decomposes, so starting with 6" leaves usually around 3" by the time we remulch the next year. Also, we get our mulch from a local tree company. They dump a truck load for us free every year.

[ProudGrandma]

wish I could I find free mulch.  The last time I bought mulch in bulk from a company, it came with a lot of big pieces, leaves, dirt, etc.  I didn't like how it looked and I was sorely disappointed.  So now, I feel my only option is to buy by the bag (or a palette of bags).  

 

I just measured my spaces...my biggest one is about 800 sq. feet.  Then I also have smaller ones of 231 sq ft, 310 sq feet and 100 sq feet.

 

So my next question is, what else can I put in my garden that takes up space, so I have less mulch to buy (beside plants)? In the big garden, a couple years ago, my daughter and I puzzled paths out of old concrete pieces all through it...so the kids could walk through the garden without killing my plants.  I didn't know if I would like it or not...but it actually looked ok.  So I could do a bit more of that, maybe (But I don't want to over due it either.).  The garden does have a few levels for interest....and a wishing well in the corner. So those things take up a bit of space too.

 

I like the idea of "less is more"...so I am not looking to clutter up my space..but I do need to find LOW maintenance ways to fill the space.  

 

Anything other thoughts?

[gardenmom5]

 

 

Grass in the flowerbeds. UGH.  From time to time, it happens. My DH will take Round UP and use a foam brush to paint the grass in the beds. It works. It's tedious and I hate messing with chemicals, but it works.

 

ornamec  will kill grass - but NOT your other plants.  you can safely spray it in your flower beds.

 

expensive, a little goes a LONG way.

[ProudGrandma]

ornamec  will kill grass - but NOT your other plants.  you can safely spray it in your flower beds.

 

expensive, a little goes a LONG way.

I have never heard of that product...can I get it at a place like Menards?  Is that what it is called? Ornamec? What is the brand?

 

I just looked on amazon...and there are several different formulas...which one do I want?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think the grass I have is burmuda or crab....I think it's just normal, everyday grass that is just now super tall and it has seeds on top (so it needs to go...now) before it reseeds more.  how can I know for sure. (can you tell I am sort of a dumb gardener?) :)

Edited May 11, 2016 by NEprairiemom

[gardenmom5]

can you please give me some examples of dense ground covers for zone 5?

 

 

 

flowerchick.com (this site has lots for zones 5 & 6.)

high country gardens.com also has lots of listed.  currently on sale.  you can  input your zone, light and soil requirements.   they have 25 listed for zone 5.

classygroundcovers.com    they have 176

 

 

keep in mind soil, light, water, etc. when choosing.

[gardenmom5]

I have never heard of that product...can I get it at a place like Menards?  Is that what it is called? Ornamec? What is the brand?

 

I just looked on amazon...and there are several different formulas...which one do I want?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think the grass I have is burmuda or crab....I think it's just normal, everyday grass that is just now super tall and it has seeds on top (so it needs to go...now) before it reseeds more.  how can I know for sure. (can you tell I am sort of a dumb gardener?) :)

 

dh's orders it. I think the concentration is just that - and you add more water to more concentrated. dh get's teh 6.75%.  I think he originally came across it at a nursery supplier - that supplies to actual commercial nurseries.

we have a variety of grasses - lawn grass that is not where it's supposed to be.  this will kill it.

[ProudGrandma]

thank you!!!

[ProudGrandma]

dh's orders it. I think the concentration is just that - and you add more water to more concentrated. dh get's teh 6.75%.  I think he originally came across it at a nursery supplier - that supplies to actual commercial nurseries.

we have a variety of grasses - lawn grass that is not where it's supposed to be.  this will kill it.

can you please tell me which one you have?  Amazon has several varieties..and at that price, I want to buy the right one.  thanks.  (I didn't see the 6.75%) 

Edited May 11, 2016 by NEprairiemom

[prairiewindmomma]

I used to live in zone 5.  

 

We put down paper (like butcher paper--they were leftover newspaper rolls) and then 5 inches of mulch when we got started.  We added 3-4 inches of mulch each year. After 4-5 years, we just put paper down again and then more mulch on top of it.  All of the mulch gradually decomposes down into beautiful soil.  We had a ton of earthworms, and our plants were able to handle the swinging temperatures (super cold winters, super hot summers) with ease.

 

Sedum transplants easily; we just plucked and moved it when we redid our landscaping.  We grew lavender, daisies, echinacea, butterfly bush, and the usual perennials as well as blueberries, raspberries, english roses, etc. 

[Happy]

ornamec  will kill grass - but NOT your other plants.  you can safely spray it in your flower beds.

 

expensive, a little goes a LONG way.

Thanks! Great tip!

[Happy]

wish I could I find free mulch.  The last time I bought mulch in bulk from a company, it came with a lot of big pieces, leaves, dirt, etc.  I didn't like how it looked and I was sorely disappointed.  So now, I feel my only option is to buy by the bag (or a palette of bags).  

 

I just measured my spaces...my biggest one is about 800 sq. feet.  Then I also have smaller ones of 231 sq ft, 310 sq feet and 100 sq feet.

 

So my next question is, what else can I put in my garden that takes up space, so I have less mulch to buy (beside plants)? In the big garden, a couple years ago, my daughter and I puzzled paths out of old concrete pieces all through it...so the kids could walk through the garden without killing my plants.  I didn't know if I would like it or not...but it actually looked ok.  So I could do a bit more of that, maybe (But I don't want to over due it either.).  The garden does have a few levels for interest....and a wishing well in the corner. So those things take up a bit of space too.

 

I like the idea of "less is more"...so I am not looking to clutter up my space..but I do need to find LOW maintenance ways to fill the space.  

 

Anything other thoughts?

 

I add pots to my beds--two reasons. The pots are out of the way of the mower and the pots add interest and height to my flat landscape. A pretty pot does not have to be filled with plants to be pretty--but they always look better with colorful annuals in them. I try to buy one new pretty pot a year--and I get good sized pots. With our summer heat, only a big pot will hold enough potting soil to keep moist through the day.

 

Over the years, I've learned to really work on one or two beds a season. Plant good perennials, add annuals, find a few garden art pieces or a trellis or a bench... The other beds get weeded, mulched, watered, and enjoyed, but with less enthusiasm. I don't have unlimited funds (bummer) so I can't always get the look I want, but over time the look evolves. I have picked up good stuff at garage sales and painted it for my garden.

 

In your case, mulch everything you can and really devote some thought to one particular bed this season--the one that bugs you the most. By next season, you'll be ready to move to the next one.

 

Don't be afraid of open spaces.

 

If you plant perennials, in a couple of years some of them will be ready to dig and divide.

[MEmama]

I love the Kraft paper idea! Totally stealing it if I run out of cardboard. :)

 

I like pots inside garden beds, too. How about bird feeders and bird baths for taking up space and adding interest? Can you add a small flagstone or floating deck?

 

We had to move our garden shed from a hidden corner to the middle of our yard (long story, property surveys...), but after I got over the ridiculousness of how that would look, I used the structure to my advantage. I painted it white with blue trim (my fave teal blue), hung an empty window frame on one side, painted it to match the trim, and added a window box full of colourful annuals underneath the frame. On another side I've added pots where my tomatoes will live, and I'm hoping to grow a clematis up the side as well. I LOVE how much charm it adds to our small yard now. Plus it's functional! So maybe add a garden shed? Lol.

[gardenmom5]

I used to live in zone 5.

 

We put down paper (like butcher paper--they were leftover newspaper rolls) and then 5 inches of mulch when we got started. We added 3-4 inches of mulch each year. After 4-5 years, we just put paper down again and then more mulch on top of it. All of the mulch gradually decomposes down into beautiful soil. We had a ton of earthworms, and our plants were able to handle the swinging temperatures (super cold winters, super hot summers) with ease.

 

Sedum transplants easily; we just plucked and moved it when we redid our landscaping. We grew lavender, daisies, echinacea, butterfly bush, and the usual perennials as well as blueberries, raspberries, english roses, etc.

Sedum divides easily too. I bought a bountiful 4inch pot, dudeling broke the thing up into tiny pieces before I planted it. I put soil in egg cartons, then stuck a piece in each. A couple weeks later, they had roots.

Now I just stick pieces in ground.