Anyone homeschooling in the Netherlands?

[waa510]

Hi all! As we're set to be here for only a couple more years this April :(, Dh has been trolling the various job sites looking for a new position. He found a very interesting job prospect in the Netherlands that he really wants to apply for, but I'm apprehensive due to the country's views on homeschooling. We should be covered under our SOFA status but just wanted others' experiences here. Is the area hostile towards homeschoolers? Life as an expat info? Will fitting it to the area be difficult as expat homeschoolers or will Dutch homeschoolers be kind? 

 

Thanks!!

 

 

 

[ChocolateMomster]

We moved to the UK, because of the situation. I wasn't willing to jump through all the hoops, but since you won't have to do that, you'll probably be just fine. There aren't all that many homeschoolers, so it might be lonelier than you're used to. Dutch people say what they think, and will definitely give their opinion on homeschooling ;)

[Loesje22000]

Dutch homeschoolers will be kind, but are having a difficult time right now.

 

If the job is in the south of the Netherlands you might consider living in Belgium.

 

(Dutch living in Belgium)

[nobeatenpath]

Having done something similar in Germany (where homeschooling is not allowed but we were covered under the SOFA agreement) - be prepared to have NO homeschool community. None. Activities will be very dependent on your ex-pat community - I assume you will be on base but be aware in some of the smaller ones everything can be tied to the school, and there can varying levels of support for non-school members joining in. Finding activities outside of the base can be difficult due to the language barrier (most Dutch people speak great English but obviously most activities for kids will not be in English). That said we did okay - the local services school ended up finding out about us and actually invited our son to come in two mornings a week for art and music classes. But you can't depend on things like that happening. It really depends on how you feel about homeschooling without an existing 'community' to slot in to.

 

Like the Dutch, the Germans are not backward in coming forward about their views on homeschooling, and many don't approve of the concept. Be prepared for it.

[Loesje22000]

Sports, clubs etc. Are not tied to school in the Netherlands.

And they have shorter schooldays compared to Belgium,

So from 3 o'clock in the afternoon elementary school kids are free to play outside.

On wednesday school closes at noon, and often the younger years (K4-5, 1st grade) have less school at fridays too.

A lot of moms work part time when their kids are in elementary school, so you can get a social life.

 

In Belgium schoolage start at 2,5, most mothers work full time, and children will have homework after their long schooldays, playing outside is not common.

But Brussels has a large expat homeschool community, and in Belgium you can homeschooling without reason, which makes a different homeschooling population then the Netherlands where you can only homeschooling for religious reasons.

[SarahW]

 Is the area hostile towards homeschoolers? Life as an expat info? Will fitting it to the area be difficult as expat homeschoolers or will Dutch homeschoolers be kind? 

 

Thanks!!

 

 

I don't think the issue would be hostility. I think most Dutch people would find it surprising and confusing. Dutch culture tends to be very "leave it to the experts" in its attitude. DIY anything, or doing something out of the ordinary, is viewed negatively. Though, this is heavily balanced by the equally strong Dutch attitude that everyone should just mind their own business.

 

So, Dutch people might tell you to your face that they don't think you are "normal" and privately consider you to be "niet normaal" but they probably won't really care that much about the fact that you're not normal. If you feel that someone is holding a grudge towards you about homeschooling, you could call them on it, "Don't judge me," and they'd likely back off.

 

Since you're American, they'll tend to be more indulgent of you being different. If you're obviously in The Netherlands temporarily, they'll be more understanding of you not putting them in school (to learn Dutch and acculturate). 

 

If you locate to any of the "Holland" provinces, there's plenty of ex-pats there who do lots of things, local and international. So even if you don't find a homeschool group, you could probably find a group you could tag along with and who would understand you.

 

I say go for it. :)

[mommysanders]

I moved to Belgium (Flanders) last August. What everyone else said I have also found to be true. Dutch are straight forward and tell you what they think. But I also have never found anyone to be "mean", just open and honest about their thoughts. I have not found any other homeschoolers here (although I know loesje22000 is in Belgium somehwere :)), but we have made friends with the kids/families of the international school here. They all know we homeschool, but have welcomed me into their activities, and it's made a world of difference! I would be struggling if we didn't have any community or friends for our kids.

 

I have friends who moved here from The Netherlands and I just asked them if they know someone who homeschools there and may be willing to give you their email. I'll let you know what they say.

[waa510]

Thanks everyone! I'm definitely familiar with being cut out of many social things as a homeschooler, unfortunately. We basically have no community here as non-religious homeschoolers. But homeschoolers are few and far between here anyway. Maybe 10-12 families between our base and the one nearest to us? All of my kids' friends aren't homeschoolers as all but a few are much younger than my kids.

 

The job post mentions the Hague and Rotterdam areas. 

 

From my research, it does seem as though the Dutch are very blunt. I'm OK with people telling me their opinions on homeschooling and it being seen negatively. I've had a lot of practice with dealing with that. I just didn't want people to be openly hostile towards us...basically taking it up a notch from disdain ;) 

 

I never considered living in Belgium and Dh commuting into the Netherlands. I'll have to check out the geography/logistics of it to see if that'd be feasible. 

 

Of course, this is all speculative and he may not get the job at all!! Thanks everyone for all your thoughts and help!!

[luuknam]

Thanks everyone! I'm definitely familiar with being cut out of many social things as a homeschooler, unfortunately. We basically have no community here as non-religious homeschoolers. But homeschoolers are few and far between here anyway. Maybe 10-12 families between our base and the one nearest to us? All of my kids' friends aren't homeschoolers as all but a few are much younger than my kids.

 

When I was looking into it a year and a half ago, the estimates I saw was fewer than 2,000 homeschoolers in NL (the country has almost 17 million people). I suspect any homeschoolers to be some sort of extremists... one of the exceptions that allow you to homeschool is if there isn't a school of your religious persuasion within a reasonable distance, which would be very rare since NL has sort of a voucher system where you can send your kid to a publicly funded religious school of w/e religion. So, maybe some ultraconservative homeschoolers, some radical unschoolers (who may be breaking the law to do their unschooling), maybe gypsy kids (very frequent moves are another exception in the law), etc... very fringe.

 

Extracurriculars aren't usually through the school, though in high school we did have an orchestra and choir.

 

While Dutch people can speak English, there is a strong feeling of "you're in our country, learn our language", even though that's made difficult because the Dutch are so accommodating in speaking English to you. IOW, you will be an outsider unless you make the effort to learn Dutch, which will involve insisting on them letting you try your Dutch.

 

I don't know why you homeschool, but it might be worth it to consider putting the kids in school in NL (I'm talking about a Dutch school, not an international school, though that's an option too)... they could learn Dutch, absorb more Dutch culture, etc. Of course, that would require talking to some local schools to see which would be the best 'fit' for your kids - if you opt for school, you don't have to send them to the one the school district tells you to send them to (no school districts, just publicly funded schools of all sorts).

[Loesje22000]

 

 

The job post mentions the Hague and Rotterdam areas.

 

 

I never considered living in Belgium and Dh commuting into the Netherlands. I'll have to check out the geography/logistics of it to see if that'd be feasible.

 

Of course, this is all speculative and he may not get the job at all!! Thanks everyone for all your thoughts and help!!

I know from another homeschooler who lived several years in Antwerp City and later nearby the border and her DH commuted to the Hague.

 

Be aware that it is Rotterdam City where the problems are right now.

The local government? Seems to think that every child deserves a school, and that every child should be in school.

They suggest homeschooled children are indoctrinated children.

I would not like to homeschool there for the moment.

 

Tress homeschools in the Netherlands so you might want to PM her.

[Loesje22000]

When I was looking into it a year and a half ago, the estimates I saw was fewer than 2,000 homeschoolers in NL (the country has almost 17 million people). I suspect any homeschoolers to be some sort of extremists... one of the exceptions that allow you to homeschool is if there isn't a school of your religious persuasion within a reasonable distance, which would be very rare since NL has sort of a voucher system where you can send your kid to a publicly funded religious school of w/e religion. So, maybe some ultraconservative homeschoolers, some radical unschoolers (who may be breaking the law to do their unschooling), maybe gypsy kids (very frequent moves are another exception in the law), etc... very fringe.

 

 

I agree with this, due to the law the homeschool population is not very divers in the Netherlands.

There always exemptions, but the most are not ordinary :)

In Belgium homeschool most people because their child did not fit in the schoolsystem.

[Loesje22000]

I moved to Belgium (Flanders) last August. What everyone else said I have also found to be true. Dutch are straight forward and tell you what they think. But I also have never found anyone to be "mean", just open and honest about their thoughts. I have not found any other homeschoolers here (although I know loesje22000 is in Belgium somehwere :)), but we have made friends with the kids/families of the international school here. They all know we homeschool, but have welcomed me into their activities, and it's made a world of difference! I would be struggling if we didn't have any community or friends for our kids.

 

I have friends who moved here from The Netherlands and I just asked them if they know someone who homeschools there and may be willing to give you their email. I'll let you know what they say.

My PM function on the board is dysfunctional, if you want to contact me, you can ask Tress for my email. We live in Antwerp Province (for now).

[nobeatenpath]

If your husband is going for a military job (which I assumed from the SOFA reference) living in Belgium might not be an option. Ditto going to a local school if you are not an EU citizen. Even if it was you would have to think if it was worth it depending on the length of the posting, and if you are coming in part way through the school year etc. I myself would stick to homeschool - as others have pointed out because you are not local it will actually be easier - you are already different, so doing something different is not such a big deal IYKWIM.

 

Sorry my posts have been sounding really negative, I don't mean to be! I just know as someone who homeschools and moves a lot with the military (and very, very few UK military families homeschool - it is not like the US) I am aware of what a struggle it can be. But it is doable! As I am sure you are aware if you are already homeschooling in Japan.

[waa510]

When I was looking into it a year and a half ago, the estimates I saw was fewer than 2,000 homeschoolers in NL (the country has almost 17 million people). I suspect any homeschoolers to be some sort of extremists... one of the exceptions that allow you to homeschool is if there isn't a school of your religious persuasion within a reasonable distance, which would be very rare since NL has sort of a voucher system where you can send your kid to a publicly funded religious school of w/e religion. So, maybe some ultraconservative homeschoolers, some radical unschoolers (who may be breaking the law to do their unschooling), maybe gypsy kids (very frequent moves are another exception in the law), etc... very fringe.

 

Extracurriculars aren't usually through the school, though in high school we did have an orchestra and choir.

 

While Dutch people can speak English, there is a strong feeling of "you're in our country, learn our language", even though that's made difficult because the Dutch are so accommodating in speaking English to you. IOW, you will be an outsider unless you make the effort to learn Dutch, which will involve insisting on them letting you try your Dutch.

 

I don't know why you homeschool, but it might be worth it to consider putting the kids in school in NL (I'm talking about a Dutch school, not an international school, though that's an option too)... they could learn Dutch, absorb more Dutch culture, etc. Of course, that would require talking to some local schools to see which would be the best 'fit' for your kids - if you opt for school, you don't have to send them to the one the school district tells you to send them to (no school districts, just publicly funded schools of all sorts).

 

Hmm..thanks for detailing the situation a bit more for me. It's funny, but as an expat in Japan we deal with much of the same thing in terms of the language expectations and subsequent people speaking English to us so we can't practice. It's maddening! Probably would be more of an issue over here with the entire culture focused on going above and beyond to be considerate of others' feelings. They take that reputation seriously, to the detriment of my Japanese language learning. I would have no problem with the expectation of learning Dutch and would start on it pronto if Dh got the job, along with the kids. Thankfully, there's a Duolingo for it so we could camp on that 'til other resources came in the mail. 

 

I don't homeschool for any kind of religious reason so I'm not opposed to the right kind of school environment. I've just never encountered one that seemed 'worth it' to me, but NL seems like they have a more diverse range of school models. 

 

As this is a permanent position it would probably make sense to consider other options, at least. We'll see if it becomes a more definite thing what our options really are and go from there I guess. I appreciate the honesty. 

[waa510]

If your husband is going for a military job (which I assumed from the SOFA reference) living in Belgium might not be an option. Ditto going to a local school if you are not an EU citizen. Even if it was you would have to think if it was worth it depending on the length of the posting, and if you are coming in part way through the school year etc. I myself would stick to homeschool - as others have pointed out because you are not local it will actually be easier - you are already different, so doing something different is not such a big deal IYKWIM.

 

Sorry my posts have been sounding really negative, I don't mean to be! I just know as someone who homeschools and moves a lot with the military (and very, very few UK military families homeschool - it is not like the US) I am aware of what a struggle it can be. But it is doable! As I am sure you are aware if you are already homeschooling in Japan.

 

 

Well, we're not technically military anymore (DoD Civ) but I see that living in Belgium would obviously not work as the SOFA is with the country we're working in...not others (duh, me!!). Yea, being overseas is definitely a struggle and I feel as though many people who would otherwise homeschool will put their kids in school because we hsers lack community. Here it's pretty rough as a lot of extras are tied into the school system and the schools are not working on helping us join at all.The school liaison is a joke. All talk, no action, lots of misinformation. If you're military, you probably know the deal. ;)

 

And you don't sound negative!! I'd much prefer people be upfront with me!! Thanks so much for responding. 

[luuknam]

I don't homeschool for any kind of religious reason so I'm not opposed to the right kind of school environment. I've just never encountered one that seemed 'worth it' to me, but NL seems like they have a more diverse range of school models. 

 

FWIW, I don't know anything about SOFA, but you should check how easy/hard it is to go back to homeschooling after you've tried school and didn't like it. IIRC, one of the ways you can homeschool in NL is if your kid legally hasn't been in school for the past year, so once in school, you're kind of stuck in school. But, that applies to Dutch citizens, so check with someone who knows more.

 

Rosetta Stone has levels 1-3 for Dutch. I've done only a little bit of it and it seemed okay (I already speak Dutch, so only checking it out for my wife etc); I did levels 1-5 for Spanish and I thought that was worth it.

 

If this is a permanent position, you might want to consider the distant future... 9yo is halfway to 18yo. Where will the 9yo want to go to college? I'm assuming Dutch university would be hard to get into with a homeschool diploma (though with enough APs and/or CLEPs it might not be that hard).  Of course, for most (but not all) majors Dutch proficiency is required, and there are some differences with the American system, such as 3 years for bachelor's and an assumed 1-2 years for the master's right afterwards (it used to be that it was 4-5 years for the master's straight out of high school), or for medicine 6 years immediately following high school (and better odds of getting in than in the US).

 

Anyway, I could ramble on about the Dutch educational system, but a) I graduated in 2002 and moved to the US in 2004, so my info is not very up-to-date, and b) it's a lot of info and complicated to explain... the main point is to consider what the kids will want to do if they spend their tween/teen years in NL. They may or may not want to go to the US.

[SarahW]

My oldest was in Dutch school for a few months last year, and went to Pre-K there as well.

 

There is a "school choice" system in The Netherlands. As long as a school meets the national curriculum standards, you can attend for free (there are a few "private" schools which teach only in English and hence charge fees). Theoretically, you could attend any school in the country, you just have to make sure your child gets there every day.

 

There are various "philosophy" schools, Steiner, Jena, etc. and also religious schools, both Roman Catholic and Protestant. Like in most things, philosophy sometimes only matches reality. For Pre-K my son went to a school run by the Reformed church. It was not a "Christian" school as most Americans would think of it, in October they decorated the classroom with paper witches! Also, his classroom had more manipulatives, imaginative play corners, and other experience-based learning things than the most tricked-out Montessori school I've seen in America.

 

If a foreign child enrolls in school, the school will arrange Dutch language tutoring for the child. Generally, they bring a child up to age-level Dutch in about 6-9 months, at which point the child rejoins the class for the core subjects. There are a few "after-school" options for Dutch language instruction for kids, especially in the bigger cities, but it is expected that most kids have the in-school tutor.

 

I've met children of immigrants in The Netherlands. Some of them were sent to one of the international schools since their parent's thought they would go "home" eventually, but they never did. When they went to college, they were unprepared to go to Dutch university. It's possible, but to meet the entry requirements differently is difficult. Some of them went to England for university, others did the equivalent of first getting an Associates degree. If you may stay in The Netherlands long-term, it's worth thinking about how you will meet college entry-requirements. Dutch colleges will not have application procedures for homeschoolers. They also likely will be uneasy with accepting SAT/AP scores from in-country applicants. You could set your sights on English universities (or American) and rely on the internet for all of your high school outsourcing needs.

 

What I would do if I was in your situation...move there and continue homeschooling. Make Dutch lessons a good part of your day (Duolingo is fine to start). Look at the local school options and schedule a few tours. Tours are fine, lots of parents tour a lot of schools before deciding on one. Consider your child's interest and see if there is a local "high school" which may be a good fit, then think of how your child can attend if he or she wants. There is the CITO test that most children take at 11yo which is considered for the national streaming of upper education. The school would have to figure out if your child is prepared for their school some other way if they don't take it.

 

Generally, the upper education in The Netherlands seems to be solid. My husband is from a quite rural area, had undiagnosed LD's, and spent much of his teens high on weed, but he seems to have received a decent education nonetheless. The only thing I would be sure to afterschool is grammar, not teaching grammar is super-trendy there right now.

[Aziz]

Hi all. Do Dutch universities accept Homeschooling diplomas from other countries? German unies?  (We know Homeschooling is not legal in NL an DE) Any personal experience? Thank you.

[Loesje22000]

I am not sure what your definition is of a homeschool diploma. The Netherlands accept quite some diploma’s of other countries, but most often they are governmental or institutional diploma’s. (I)GCSE and A-levels are accepted, the German Arbitur also.

 

This site gives quit some information about what diploma’s give acces  to which level of education: https://www.nuffic.nl/en Universities and HBO’s have different admission requirements.

We are Dutch, homeschooled in Belgium, our child passed the Belgian State Exams to get a diploma and had to get additional subject certificates to be able to enrol the university and study of the choice.

 

Be aware that most Dutch Universities and HBO’s don’t have much general subjects anymore (unless necessary in the program).

 

[maize]

It can be hard to get into European universities even with a regular high school diploma from countries like the US that don't do high school exit exams. One route that works for some European universities is to take a bunch of AP exams--that is a route that would be open to homeschoolers.