Converting, family acceptance....experiences

[ScoutTN]

Thank you for your explanation. I am aware of some of the differences that you mention. Many Protestants would fall more under your description of Catholic/Orthodox/Lutheran, I would think. For example, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian. But most of them don't consider themselves evangelical.

 

I think a helpful distinction is mainline (older/original, more liberal theologically) vs. evangelical (more recently founded/ split off from mainline, more conservative theologically). Just speaking of a denomination is very inaccurate because of these differences.

 

Almost every historic Protestant denomination (Methodist, Presbyterian or Reformed, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopal) in the US has both mainline and evengelical branches and a spectrum of theological positions even within those branches.

 

Churches coming from the Anabaptist tradition, including most non-denominational ones or broadly evangelical ones, are usually Baptist in their basic theology and church government. Far right, legalistic, anti-intellectual branches of these churches are usually called fundamentalist.

 

Charismatic and Pentacostal type churches are a whole 'nother thing too. They too descend from the Anabaptists originally, I think.

 

Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian and Lutheran churches each have historic doctrinal distinctives with regard to how God is present in the Eucharist, how one can be saved, the role of ordained clergy and forms of church government, and all baptize infants, though only the Lutherans teach baptismal regeneration.

 

For an example, I belong to a Presbyterian church in the PCA, Presbyterian Church in America.

Founded in the early 1970s by conservatives or evangelicals who could not reamin in the PCUSA anymore because of theological liberalism. There are at least five other conservative, evangelical Presbyterian denominations in the US right now, plus the mainline PCUSA. Then there is the

Cumberland Presbyterian which seems to be evangelical, but has denied its Reformed heritage and become Arminian in terms of soteriology. Before the Civil War, there were Northern and Southern branches of Presbyterianism. And all those don't even count the Dutch Reformed churches which were/are very similar to Presbyterian ones, except that their background and founders were Dutch rather than Scottish.

 

American church history is full of twists and turns and it helps to define terms like "evangelical" carefully so everyone knows what you mean. The word was first commonly used in the mid to late 20th century by those splitting off from the mainline denominations. They were focused on the "euangelion", (sorry can't figure out how to make an ipad print Greek.), the gospel, the good news

of salvation when mainline churches were focused on social justice and denying historic Christian doctrines like the deity of Christ, the inerrancy of Scripture, the virgin birth, orginal sin etc.

 

I grew up in liberal Episcopal churches and became an evangelical Presbyterian. Not nearly as big a change as the OP is discussing, but enough to create serious division to this day in my family. We talk about it sometimes, but our worldviews are fundamentally different in many ways.

Edited February 2, 2016 by ScoutTN

[Carol in Cal.]

FWIW, Confessional Lutherans believe, teach, and confess that Jesus' True Body and True Blood are really present in the Sacrament, in, with, and under the bread and the wine.  Because of this belief in the Real Presence, we practice close communion.  In the original Augsburg Confession, the Catholic and Lutheran (Evangelische) positions are described as identical; i.e. matters 'not in dispute'.  There are nuances to this, some of which arose later, but this is no mere memorial in our fellowship.

[Bluegoat]

FWIW, Confessional Lutherans believe, teach, and confess that Jesus' True Body and True Blood are really present in the Sacrament, in, with, and under the bread and the wine.  Because of this belief in the Real Presence, we practice close communion.  In the original Augsburg Confession, the Catholic and Lutheran (Evangelische) positions are described as identical; i.e. matters 'not in dispute'.  There are nuances to this, some of which arose later, but this is no mere memorial in our fellowship.

 

Yeah, interestingly the Lutheran ideas about the Eucharist are really very similar to St Thomas' ideas.  In some ways more so than some of the more popular pieties common during certian periods in the Catholic Church.

[Guest]

As an American Evangelical, I want to clarify something here.

 

We do NOT believe children are born innocent. We believe all humans are born with a sin nature. But we believe that young children aren't held accountable for that sin until they are able to recognize it in themselves, usually around ages 5-8. At that time, they are encouraged to seek forgiveness through the blood of Christ.

 

That might seem like splitting hairs, but it is an important distinction.

I was biting my tongue hard. Thanks Karen :)

[TianXiaXueXiao]

 

Catholic/Orthodox/Lutheran: Everyone is born sinful in need of a Savior. Parents bring their children to baptism soon after birth. God works through the baptism ceremony to mark the child as a Christian and work forgiveness of sins. No age of accountability. No sinner's prayer needed in the future. just raise the child in the faith.

 

Forgive me for going off topic, but I would like to state for the record that Eastern Orthodox Christians do believe that humankind has an innocent nature that we are all endowed with by our Creator, and made so in His very image. We absolutely do not believe that everyone is born sinful. This is one of the defining differences between Eastern and Western Christianity. Thank you and back to the topic at hand.

[MotherGoose]

tio

 

FWIW, Confessional Lutherans believe, teach, and confess that Jesus' True Body and True Blood are really present in the Sacrament, in, with, and under the bread and the wine. Because of this belief in the Real Presence, we practice close communion. In the original Augsburg Confession, the Catholic and Lutheran (Evangelische) positions are described as identical; i.e. matters 'not in dispute'. There are nuances to this, some of which arose later, but this is no mere memorial in our fellowship.

I was ECLA. From my personal experience, communion is taken WAY more seriously in the Catholic faith. Perhaps it is the emphasis on transubstantiation, not just the Real Presence. It just wasn't talked about the way it is at the Catholic Church. Ymmv though

[Bluegoat]

Forgive me for going off topic, but I would like to state for the record that Eastern Orthodox Christians do believe that humankind has an innocent nature that we are all endowed with by our Creator, and made so in His very image. We absolutely do not believe that everyone is born sinful. This is one of the defining differences between Eastern and Western Christianity. Thank you and back to the topic at hand.

 

 

Im not sure I would agree with this.  Western Christianity is certainly not all on one page about this, but if you are thinking of Catholicism, the concept of original sin does not mean people are born guilty, it means they are born subject to the effects of the Fall - concuipiscence, for example.  Which is also pretty much what the East says.

 

Now - if you want to look at some of the Protestant traditions only, you would be correct, but that is a far more limited statement, because it isn't even all of them.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Bluegoat

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Im not sure I would agree with this. Western Christianity is certainly not all on one page about this, but if you are thinking of Catholicism, the concept of original sin does not mean people are born guilty, it means they are born subject to the effects of the Fall - concuipiscence, for example. Which is also pretty much what the East says.

 

Now - if you want to look at some of the Protestant traditions only, you would be correct, but that is a far more limited statement, because it isn't even all of them.

I really don't want to derail the op's thread here. While Orthodox Christians fully embrace St. Augustine as a saint, we do not maintain his doctrines on Original Sin and we do not share the views of the Roman Catholic Church on this matter. We could have a separate discussion on a different thread, if you like.

[mellifera33]

Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian and Lutheran churches each have historic doctrinal distinctives with regard to how God is present in the Eucharist, how one can be saved, the role of ordained clergy and forms of church government, and all baptize infants, though none teach baptismal regeneration.

 

 

The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod teaches baptismal regeneration. :) I'm not sure about the ELCA.

 

I was ECLA. From my personal experience, communion is taken WAY more seriously in the Catholic faith. Perhaps it is the emphasis on transubstantiation, not just the Real Presence. It just wasn't talked about the way it is at the Catholic Church. Ymmv though

 

When I went from ELCA to LCMS I was surprised at how differently communion was practiced and thought about in the two church bodies. My LCMS congregation took the real presence in communion much more seriously than the ELCA congregation in which I grew up. In fact, I remember my ELCA congregation referring to communion as symbolic. Looking back, it was more of a nondenominational church that happened to baptize infants, than a Lutheran church. 

 

PS: Sorry for the derail. I read the beginning of the thread yesterday and the rest today, and lost the chain somewhere along the line. My only "conversion" experience was from one Lutheran church to another, and the worst I experiences was good-natured ribbing. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by mellifera33

[JenniferB]

I'll be back to read everyone's stories later.  Our family conversion has a quite a story.  The negativity was from our former church and a mysterious anonymous threat letter writer.  The mystery is not solved, but we are all safe.  We will be seeking counseling now in an attempt to recover and heal.  Being part of the Church has a costly price, as the Gospel says, it's the Pearl of Great Price.  Peace unto you and your journey.  May all go according to God's will and may you be blessed despite the attempts to curse you.

[ScoutTN]

Thanks for the correction, Mellifera33. I changed my post to reflect it.

None of my Lutheran friends believe in baptismal regeneration, but Idon't know which denomination they belong to or whether they believe as their churches teach. I know we have many members who do not hold to Reformed postions on election and baptism, among other things. It has been a long time since I have studied the confessional documents of various churches.

 

Maybe as my kids get older, I can teach more church history and have an excuse to study again!

[mommaduck]

Orthodox convert from Protestantism. I went into Internet hiding. I gave up a moderating position I held. I joined a quiet forum where I could ask potentially offensive questions and have a safe place to adjust and work things out. I said NOTHING on Facebook or in real life until we were sure. I still was fairly quiet and let others figure it out. Eventually I received some angry/hate emails telling me they were disappointed and calling me an apostate and heretic. My FIL has little to do with us now and refuses to discuss religion. But I went at my pace. It is my journey and no one else's business.