Opinions on recording electives?

[Carrie12345]

I'm planning for my dd's 9th grade year, and I'm wondering if putting a bunch of 1/2 credit electives would look "funny" on her transcript, and whether I should put most of them as activities, instead.

 

Her core classes will be pretty standard.  We'll shoot for honors science and maybe AP geography, but I'm prepared to scale those back if needed.  She wants the fancy modifiers, but I don't know if the motivation is there.

 

She'll also be taking Theater, Public Speaking, and one or two other undecided co-op classes worthy of at least a half credit each.  Theater may very well be all 4 years of high school.  And she will be meeting and studying for the annual Envirothon competition, which is a LOT of work.  She's already been doing the Junior Envirothon for a few years, which we've counted as part of science, but the high school level is a lot more intense.

 

Bottom line, she comes out with more electives than core classes.

 

Her college goals are nowhere near set in stone.  She talks about pursuing environmental science (hence the science focus,) or going to culinary school. Or whatever else pops up in the next few years.

 

Thoughts from veterans?

[Luckymama]

Until she applies for college you don't need to have a set-in-stone transcript. Keep a running transcript with those half-credit classes if you need it for PA, but then rearrange everything as needed.

 

For example, dd isn't taking an official for-credit fine arts class at one specific time. We're covering art as we come to it in her classes like ancient history, us history, and human geography and in our travels. I'll fold all those hours into a half- or full-credit class. Right now dd's trancript is written by subject instead of by year so I don't have to worry about where to place that course.

 

Envirothon is an awesome extracurricular! Kuddos to her! Dd wanted to do it in high school (no junior high level here)--I even said I'd start a team--but she couldn't find the time.

[Carrie12345]

Until she applies for college you don't need to have a set-in-stone transcript. Keep a running transcript with those half-credit classes if you need it for PA, but then rearrange everything as needed.

 

For example, dd isn't taking an official for-credit fine arts class at one specific time. We're covering art as we come to it in her classes like ancient history, us history, and human geography and in our travels. I'll fold all those hours into a half- or full-credit class. Right now dd's trancript is written by subject instead of by year so I don't have to worry about where to place that course.

 

Envirothon is an awesome extracurricular! Kuddos to her! Dd wanted to do it in high school (no junior high level here)--I even said I'd start a team--but she couldn't find the time.

 

 

We're having trouble recruiting for the high school level.  :glare:   It IS a lot of work, and a lot of high schoolers are enrolling in cyber charters, so they're not eligible for a homeschool team.  Plus, we're on the border of two counties, and you can't have crossover.  They've been very flexible at the Junior level, but there's no budging beyond that.  I'm pretty sure we'll have enough for next year and a year or two after that. Fingers crossed!

[JanetC]

Agreed: record everything as elective classes for now -- while it's still easy to create a grade and course descriptions. You have until the first time you submit a transcript to another educational institution to change your mind if it looks "off."

 

Make sure you have English and math every year, too.

[EKS]

I waited on putting certain things on the transcript (viola and sailing come to mind) to see whether my son would want to list them as activities or not when applying to colleges.  The things that he didn't list as activities went on the transcript as electives.  And this all happened in the fall *after* he graduated from high school (he took a gap year).

[Lori D.]

Not at all directing this at you, Carrie12345, this is just a general gripe of mine:  ;)

Probably just me from my own experience with homeschool co-ops, but I always have a hard time believing that the majority of co-op classes are really worth credit *unless* they are meeting more than once a week, and require significant outside-the-class time and work.

 

While not all credits can be counted strictly by hour accumulation, it's one way of helping to keep credits roughly consistent (obviously, there will be exceptions :) ). It's a good idea to have credits be fairly consistent when creating a transcript for sending off to colleges, as you are not likely to have your grading and awarding of credits questioned by the college.

 

For counting hours (how many hours = how much credit), I find this chart helpful:

. . . . . . . . . . . .lite . . . average . . rigorous

1.00 credit = 120 . . . 150 . . . 180

0.75 credit =   90 . . . 110 . . . 135

0.66 credit =   80 . . . 100 . . . 120

0.50 credit =   60 . . . . 75 . . . . 90

0.33 credit =   40 . . . . 50 . . . . 60

0.25 credit =   30 . . . . 35 . . . . 45

 

So, this is where my problem with many co-op classes comes in. If the class meets for 1 hour a week for 18 weeks and does not require any outside-of-class work, the student is still 12 hours short for even a "lite" 0.25 credit. And most co-op classes only tend to meet for 10, 12, or 16 weeks of the semester at most. Also, many co-op classes don't require much outside-the-class work each week -- often just 30-60 minutes a week at most.

 

(An example as an aside: this year I'm teaching a high school Lit. & Comp. homeschool co-op class which meets 16x each semester for 90 min/class, so 48 hours of in-class time for the whole year. I require outside-of-class weekly readings, and completion of lessons, and writing assignments, which comes out to another 3 hours (or more) of work per week for at least another 96 hours for the year. All together, that comes out to 144 hours for the year, which lands my co-op class right in the range of an average 1 credit course. Students who only take 1 semester put in about 72 hours of work, which is in the range of an average 0.5 credit course.)

 

Don't get me wrong here -- if the co-op class is meant to just be enrichment or supplement, that's great! That actually makes things easier -- you can add the co-op hours to similar extracurriculars to "beef up" the extracurricular for the activities list -- or, plug in some of the co-op supplement hours in to flesh out your own at-home credits -- or, just have fun at co-op getting exposure to all kinds of interesting things, and not worry about tracking hours or credits.

 

However, if looking to use co-op classes as part of the credits for the transcript, then consider taking each co-op class individually and determine how (or even *if*) it fits in with the rest of the materials and time towards a credit.

 

So, let's look at the example of the Public Speaking co-op class:

I actually led a Public Speaking co-op class some years back. We met 10 times, for 90 minutes each time. So, a total of 15 hours of class time. The students had no weekly readings or homework. The only outside-of-class work was that each student had to research/write/prepare and give a total of 3 presentations. Based on my own DSs' prep, that took 2-3 hours for each presentation, so 6-9 hours of outside-the-class time. That's a total of 21-24 hours for the Public Speaking co-op class -- not enough to count even for a "lite" 0.25 credit. (And for consistency, we shot for approximately 150 hours per 1 credit, so we would have needed more like 35 hours to make a 0.25 credit course…)

 

JMO, but the options I see for this scenario are:

- count it as a nice unit of Public Speaking in one of the 4 high school English credits

- not count it towards anything official, but know it is terrific real-life life skill development

 

I, personally, would not count this specific example of Public Speaking towards an extracurricular because the hours spent on it are too low and there were no similar or follow-up activities in subsequent years of high school.

 

What colleges are looking for in extracurriculars are things like long-term commitment, development of skills such as leadership and responsibility, and student pursuing an interest. So for me, I'd want to see something like 1-2 hours weekly for the whole school year, or 4-5 hours weekly on a short-season activity, or a lower hour-count activity only offered once a school year but done every year of high school, so that it accrued a more significant total time doing that extracurricular and showed development of interest and perseverance on the part of the student. Again, JMO! :)

 

Envirothon Competition

That's terrific! That hits all aspects of being a super extracurricular. :)

 

Theater

This has the potential for working well as a Fine Arts credit. Frequently, Theater co-op classes require quite a bit of outside-of-class time, what with rehearsals, building sets/props, sewing costumes, etc., on top of extra hours for actual performances. If that's the case, track the hours, and if you end up with 35-40 hours, at a slower time in the school year, have your student read a book or two on the history of Theater (or other Theater topic) -- or go see 2 local live plays by community or professional groups -- and write a short paper, and you'd have a super 0.5 credit of Fine Arts: Theater.

 

One other idea is if the Theater ends up being about a 0.25 credit of work and hours, you could do other 0.25 "units" in other Fine Arts areas (choose from things such as: Music Performance or Appreciation, Drawing, Painting, Sculpture, Photography, Filmmaking, Art History or Appreciation, etc.) throughout the high school years and compile 4 0.25 "units" into a single 1 credit course of "Survey of Fine Arts". :)

 

 

The nice thing that others have mentioned above is that you can just track things now, and decide later where they best fit. Yea! :) BEST of luck in wearing your high school administrator hat! :hat:  Warmest regards, Lori D. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Lori D.

[Carrie12345]

Our co-op classes are 30 one-hour classes in person, plus homework/study at home (and rehearsals for Theater, obviously.)  Some are designed to meet full credit standards (more work at home), but we tend to stick with the ones that hit a 60-80 hour commitment/year.  I'm not looking to "stretch" anything.  Our co-op requires real, hard work.

[Lori D.]

Our co-op classes are 30 one-hour classes in person, plus homework/study at home (and rehearsals for Theater, obviously.)  Some are designed to meet full credit standards (more work at home), but we tend to stick with the ones that hit a 60-80 hour commitment/year.  I'm not looking to "stretch" anything.  Our co-op requires real, hard work.

 

Awesome! :)

 

I'm jealous! ;) Of the numerous homeschool co-ops that have started/stopped in our city in my years of homeschooling and up through now, other than the classes I've offered, I've only seen 1-2 other classes offered that were credit-worthy. Everything else is most definitely enrichment/supplement.

[Ellie]

I'm planning for my dd's 9th grade year, and I'm wondering if putting a bunch of 1/2 credit electives would look "funny" on her transcript, and whether I should put most of them as activities, instead.

 

Her core classes will be pretty standard.  We'll shoot for honors science and maybe AP geography, but I'm prepared to scale those back if needed.  She wants the fancy modifiers, but I don't know if the motivation is there.

 

She'll also be taking Theater, Public Speaking, and one or two other undecided co-op classes worthy of at least a half credit each.  Theater may very well be all 4 years of high school.  And she will be meeting and studying for the annual Envirothon competition, which is a LOT of work.  She's already been doing the Junior Envirothon for a few years, which we've counted as part of science, but the high school level is a lot more intense.

 

Bottom line, she comes out with more electives than core classes.

 

Her college goals are nowhere near set in stone.  She talks about pursuing environmental science (hence the science focus,) or going to culinary school. Or whatever else pops up in the next few years.

 

Thoughts from veterans?

 

Well, "electives" can mean different things.

 

I was a business student; that is, I was required to take three years of English, one year of math, one year of biology, one year of fine arts, one year of U.S. history, one year of U.S. government and *electives to complete my diploma course.* For me, those electives were shorthand and typing. For the fine arts, I chose art, which was an elective. Had I taken more science, or foreign languages, those would have been electives.

 

So I would imagine that your dd's course of study would include four years of English, two or three years of social sciences, two or three years of lab sciences, two or three years of math, plus electives such as foreign languages, fine arts, applied arts, etc. Her theater could be one of the required fine arts electives. I would not give her credit for more than one other elective per year (English, history, math, science, theater, plus one more, although you could squeeze in two per year if they're only one-semester courses).

 

Everything else I would consider extracurriculuar.

[Lori D.]

Bottom line, she comes out with more electives than core classes.

 

Her college goals are nowhere near set in stone.  She talks about pursuing environmental science (hence the science focus,) or going to culinary school. Or whatever else pops up in the next few years.

 

Thoughts from veterans?

 

Your comments here, and Ellie's post above, remind me of my usual recommendation -- which is, esp. if the student is undecided about future goals, try to leave as many doors open as possible for the student's future.

 

Completing a set of college prep credits that would allow the student to be admissible to the majority of standard 4-year universities and colleges is not difficult, and still leaves plenty of room for lots of electives, extracurriculars, and pursuing interests:

 

4 credits = English (roughly 1/2 Lit. & 1/2 Writing/Composition -- can include Creative Writing, Journalism, etc.)

3-4 credits = Math* (Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2 -- * = many colleges require a 4th credit math with Alg. 2 as prerequisite)

3 credits = Science, with labs (if going into a STEM field, colleges will expect 4 credits)

2-3 credits = Social Sciences** (1 credit = Amer. Hist. -- ** = many colleges also require 1 credit World Hist/Geog, and/or 0.5 credit each Gov't & Econ)

2 credits = Foreign Language (of the same language; some colleges require 3 or 4 credits of For. Lang.)

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8 credits = Electives ("academic electives" = are additional credits in the first 4 subject areas above; "regular" electives = Computer, PE, Health, Bible or Religious Studies, Vocational-Tech, additional Fine Arts credits, coursework in areas of personal interest, etc.)

20-28+ credits = TOTAL

 

That works out to 5-7 credits per year of high school, which is roughly 5-7 hours of work a day -- very typical workload, leaving plenty of time for extracurriculars, social time, pursuing personal interests, esp. if you "time-shift" a credit or two to the summer, or if you do dual enrollment in 11th or 12th grade (frequently, 1 semester college course of dual enrollment = 1 YEAR high school credit -- so, for example, through dual enrollment you can knock out 2 credits of Foreign Language in 1 year, and they count BOTH as the high school required credits for admission into college AND as the required college general ed. courses for a 4-year degree).

 

Accomplishing the required credits above would still leave room for 1-2 credits of Electives every year of high school -- perhaps more if DD does some school work over the summers for high school credits -- or does dual enrollment for simultaneous high school and college credit -- or takes some CLEP tests for college credit. :)

 

CLEP tests are a test-for-credit option; they are administered at your local university or community college testing center, cost about $125 per test, and when the student scores above a specific minimum, college credit is granted (but no grade). CLEP scores are accepted for credit as almost 3000 colleges and universities, so if you know where your student plans to apply, you can look up the CLEP policies for those schools and see which CLEP tests they accept and the limit on number of CLEP credits accepted. Many homeschoolers take a high school course, then study the CLEP booklet at the end of their homeschool course, take the CLEP, and earn college credit that way, as well as "confirm mommy grades" through testing.

 

Through dual enrollment, DD might even be able to complete, or get a good ways through, an Associate's degree in Culinary Arts at your local Community College or Vo-Tech school, and then use that degree to stepping-stone to a higher paying job while earning a 4-year degree at a university. OR, if she ends up not being interested in an Associate's degree, through dual enrollment she could knock out 1-2 semesters of college gen. ed. coursework for a future degree...

 

It's hard to know right now, before 8th grade is even finished, how to plan for 11th and 12th grades -- just throwing some ideas out there so you can see there are a lot of options for doing lots of interest-led credits and activities while still keeping college a possibility. :)

Edited December 29, 2015 by Lori D.