Lone Pine AP Latin (+ Lukeion questions)

[OnMyOwn]

Has anyone had a student take this course and do well on the AP Latin exam? Or know of anyone that did? My dd is taking Latin 2 with them right now and I'm not sure if she should continue with them or switch to something else. I like the books they use, but I'm not sure about the class and how good of a preparation it is for AP Latin. My dd is doing well in the class and gets the Latin. I just want to make sure we're on a good path.

Edited December 17, 2015 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

Bumping . . .

 

Thinking about switching to Lukeion since I know they have a high success rate. I'd still love to hear from those with Lone Pine experience.

[j3mom]

Would love to know as well. :-)

[G5052]

We did VPSA and then Lukeion. Truly they are the gold standard, very demanding.

[OnMyOwn]

We did VPSA and then Lukeion. Truly they are the gold standard, very demanding.

Thank you. Can I ask what level you were at when you switched to Lukeion and was it a smooth transition?

[G5052]

Thank you. Can I ask what level you were at when you switched to Lukeion and was it a smooth transition?

 

Mine did VPSA Latin I and II with Wheelock's and had high A's plus gold medals on the National Latin Exam, and then barely placed into Lukeion Latin 3. I called Amy to confirm, but she felt like he would do fine.

 

It was indeed a stretch the whole way, but he got a "5" on the exam. Their classes are very intense.

 

My next one is a solid Latin student and did VPSA Latin I and II and is now in Classic Academic Press Latin IV online. She's not a Lukeion kid and has other interests, so we probably won't do their Latin V which is AP Latin next year.

[OnMyOwn]

Mine did VPSA Latin I and II with Wheelock's and had high A's plus gold medals on the National Latin Exam, and then barely placed into Lukeion Latin 3. I called Amy to confirm, but she felt like he would do fine.

 

It was indeed a stretch the whole way, but he got a "5" on the exam. Their classes are very intense.

 

My next one is a solid Latin student and did VPSA Latin I and II and is now in Classic Academic Press Latin IV online. She's not a Lukeion kid and has other interests, so we probably won't do their Latin V which is AP Latin next year.

Okay, so you used Wheelock's in VPSA. That's what worries me about switching to Lukeion.

 

My dd had used Lingua Latina at home for Latin 1. She did well on Lukeion's placement test for Latin 2, but I was reluctant to have her spend 8-10 hours a week on Latin, and she was going to have to pick up a lot of vocab from Wheelock's over the summer, so we went with Lone Pine since they also use LL. That feels like it may have been a mistake because Lone Pine has been a breeze for her because she'd already covered much of the material before.

 

I'm going to have her take a look at Lukeion's Latin 3 placement test today to get an idea of where she's at. Did you find that the 8-10 hour estimate with Lukeion was accurate? If so, what do they do in that 8-10 hours? Also, do you think signing up for one of Lukeion's workshops would give us an idea about what the Latin class is like? Thanks again for your reply. Very helpful.

[yvonne]

My boys also did Latin I & II online, using Wheelock's, and then moved to Lukeion for Latin III and now IV/AP. For them, Latin III & IV probably have averaged out to 8-10 hours a week, especially the first semester.

 

My daughter took Latin I at Lukeion last year and is in Latin II this year.  Like my boys, she completed Latin for Children A&B prior to starting Wheelock's and I think that really helped with the transition to Wheelock's. She probably spent about 6 hours/week last year in Latin I and is spending about the same so far this year in Latin II. She has a high A, but I'm a little nervous that she's not putting in as much time as she really needs to in order to continue doing well in Latin III & IV/AP, if she opts to continue. I may be underestimating her, though. Time will tell.

 

I agree that Lukeion really is the gold standard. It is tough and it requires an investment of time. However, 1) AP Latin is probably going to require that investment no matter where you take it, and 2) my children have gained so much beyond the Latin itself from their Lukeion classes. Lukeion, more than any of their classes, has prepared them for the rigorous academic work they would do at a good college. So, for us, the time involved has been worth it.

 

Usually, the most efficient route is the straightest, so, before changing course, I would first find out from Lone Pine how their students do on the AP exam, if that is the goal. What percent get 4's/5's?  I would also find out if the AP students with 4's/5's have used Lingua Latina or some other immersion text the whole way, or if they've used something like Wheelock's/Latin Alive/other grammar-based text in the past.  (I tend to wonder if the immersion/whole language approach is more effective for the NLE exams, but the grammar-based translation approach is more effective for the AP exam.)

 

I'd have your dd take the Lukeion Latin 3 placement test. Don't just look at it!! Take it and have Lukeion give you their take on it so that your dd has a straightforward assessment of where she would be in Lukeion's sequence. Amy's been doing this for years. She'll be able (and willing!) to give you an honest answer about what your dd could expect if she moves to Lukeion's Latin III.  It may be that switching to Lukeion's sequence would be difficult, but that your dd could do just as well on the AP exam by continuing with & completing Lone Pine's sequence. There's got to be more than one path to the AP!

 

Taking a Lukeion workshop would definitely not give you an idea of what their Latin classes are like.  The workshops are more like interesting, supplemental lectures. They don't require any homework to be submitted.

 

Good luck finding the most effective path for your daughter!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by yvonne

[OnMyOwn]

Thanks, Yvonne. So very helpful. I will check with Lone Pine to see if they have info about the AP exam success rate of their students. I'm absolutely also planning on having my dd take the Lukeion placement exam if we decide to go that route. I just meant I'd have her take a look to see if she thinks she's ready for it. I had actually wanted to put my dd in Lukeion this year, but she has a lot of heavy classes and I thought it would streamline things for her with Lone Pine since she'd already covered a lot of the material. I don't have anything against Lone Pine, though. She likes the class. I'm just not sure what kind of results they get in the end.

 

Would you be willing to share more about how you feel the Lukeion classes have prepared your children for college? I'd love to hear about that. And what type of homework do the Lukeion students have? Is a lot of it doing translations? About the workshops -- would sitting on one one of those at least give us an idea of how the class lecture is run? I know there isn't any homework with them, but I thought we could get an idea about the lecture style by watching the workshops.

Edited December 17, 2015 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

So, it looks like last year was Lone Pine's first year with AP Latin students?  From the Lone Pine website:  

  What AP scores have students received so far?

So far, we have received three 5, five 4, and one 3 score, so the mean is 4.222.  The 2014 national mean score for AP Latin was 3.05. A 5 on the AP is corresponding to an A in the course and a 4 is corresponding to a B, thus far. More are coming in July!

 

[G5052]

Mine pretty much did 10+ hours a week in Lukeion 4, a little less in Lukeion 3. He's a slow, deliberate writer, so that was a factor. Both are not just translation. They do a lot of related work included word studies.

 

We did a seminar to see what their interface was like and get a flavor, but they're more informational, so I wouldn't say that they're really indicative of their academic expectations at all.

Edited December 17, 2015 by G5052

[Corraleno]

I'm going to have her take a look at Lukeion's Latin 3 placement test today to get an idea of where she's at. Did you find that the 8-10 hour estimate with Lukeion was accurate? If so, what do they do in that 8-10 hours? Also, do you think signing up for one of Lukeion's workshops would give us an idea about what the Latin class is like? Thanks again for your reply. Very helpful.

 

One reason that Lukeion's classes are so intensive and time-consuming is because their sequence is Latin 1, 2, 3, AP, while Lone Pine's is Latin 1, 2, 3, 4, AP, so Lukeion is covering the same material in 4 yrs instead of 5. If your DD is doing Latin 2 this year in 8th will she be ready for AP Latin in 10th? One option you might even consider would be doing Latin 3 with Lone Pine in 9th (call it Latin 2 on your transcript), and then do Lukeion's Latin 3 in 10th and AP in 11th. Or you could even go through Latin 4 with Lone Pine and then decide if you want to stay with them for AP (they should have more of a track record by then) or switch to Lukeion for AP.

 

The workshops will not give you a very good idea of the language classes. I would contact Amy and see if she would allow you to access a recording of one the Latin 3 lectures; that is the only way you'll get an idea of what the classes are really like. I think they are very different from the Lone Pine classes.

[OnMyOwn]

One reason that Lukeion's classes are so intensive and time-consuming is because their sequence is Latin 1, 2, 3, AP, while Lone Pine's is Latin 1, 2, 3, 4, AP, so Lukeion is covering the same material in 4 yrs instead of 5. If your DD is doing Latin 2 this year in 8th will she be ready for AP Latin in 10th? One option you might even consider would be doing Latin 3 with Lone Pine in 9th (call it Latin 2 on your transcript), and then do Lukeion's Latin 3 in 10th and AP in 11th. Or you could even go through Latin 4 with Lone Pine and then decide if you want to stay with them for AP (they should have more of a track record by then) or switch to Lukeion for AP.

 

The workshops will not give you a very good idea of the language classes. I would contact Amy and see if she would allow you to access a recording of one the Latin 3 lectures; that is the only way you'll get an idea of what the classes are really like. I think they are very different from the Lone Pine classes.

Thanks for your thoughts. If my dd continues with Lone Pine, I think she would be able to do AP Latin in 10th, because they offer an option to do Latin 4 and AP at the same time. If she transfers to Lukeion, she should be prepared to go into their Latin 3 class, but I would have her take their placement test to be sure. I think Lone Pine spreads out the readings that Lukeion does in Latin 3 over two years. I'm definitely going to get more info about AP results at Lone Pine before making any decisions.

 

We're also considering doing Latin 3 at home, beginning now, since my dd has already covered most of what Lone Pine is covering this year, and then jumping in with either Lukeion or Lone Pine for AP. I'll report back as I get more info about Lone Pine's AP results.

[Corraleno]

Thanks for your thoughts. If my dd continues with Lone Pine, I think she would be able to do AP Latin in 10th, because they offer an option to do Latin 4 and AP at the same time. If she transfers to Lukeion, she should be prepared to go into their Latin 3 class, but I would have her take their placement test to be sure. I think Lone Pine spreads out the readings that Lukeion does in Latin 3 over two years. I'm definitely going to get more info about AP results at Lone Pine before making any decisions.

 

We're also considering doing Latin 3 at home, beginning now, since my dd has already covered most of what Lone Pine is covering this year, and then jumping in with either Lukeion or Lone Pine for AP. I'll report back as I get more info about Lone Pine's AP results.

 

Regarding the bolded... do you mean they let some students skip Latin 4 and go directly from Latin 3 to AP, or they offer the option to do Latin 4 plus AP Latin in one year?

 

ETA: If your DD has already covered most of what Lone Pine is doing in Latin 2, you might consider jumping into Lukeion's Latin 2b for next semester. Then you know she'd be well-preapred for their Latin 3 class, and if there's a bit of a learning curve there, the grade wouldn't matter since it's 8th grade. It looks like there is a opening in Sue Fisher's Latin 2 class, which would start Jan 19th.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Corraleno

[OnMyOwn]

Regarding the bolded... do you mean they let some students skip Latin 4 and go directly from Latin 3 to AP, or they offer the option to do Latin 4 plus AP Latin in one year?

I believe they do the level 4 readings plus AP at the same time.

Edited December 21, 2015 by OnMyOwn

[eternalsummer]

Does anyone have any updated info about Lukeion vs Lone Pine in terms of rigor and AP preparedness (or NLE preparedness)?  We've done Barbarian Digrammarian with Lukeion and Latin 1 this semester, and I really like the way they run classes (so organized and thorough!) but we're moving back to Colorado and it seems like Lone Pine has a bit of a community there, with the yearly convention in Estes and etc.  I am wondering if it would be worth abandoning Lukeion for LP just for the community aspect for Latin (although we'd probably add Greek with Lukeion in a couple of years, and eventually Advanced Research Writing and maybe some of their history courses).  

[OnMyOwn]

My dd wound up switching to Lukeion, but Lone Pine could be and probably is very worth it for some people due to the community. My dd went to the Colorado Latin convention with them after she took Latin 2 and she did enjoy it, but she also had major problems with her allergies and headaches while she was there, so it wasn't "the best time of her life" like I really believe it is for many kids. I remember reading a lot of the comments from kids that attended and it was an amazing experience for many of them. They also offer certamen, which is another great opportunity to get involved with the other kids. If my dd had been an extrovert and really craving more peer interaction, we definitely would have stayed with Lone Pine because they offer a lot more than Lukeion in that way.

 

Lukeion is more organized, though, and the expectations are more clear. For my dd, while she liked the LP class, she has really loved the Lukeion classes and teachers. The main thing we did not care for with Lone Pine were the multiple dates assignments were released and due on. And there were many, many small assignments. Every other class my dd has had either gives out a syllabus with all the homework assignments on it ahead of time or assigns new homework on the day of class and then makes it due on a specific day the following week. Perhaps it was just my dd, but I had to get involved because she kept missing due dates. She was still in middle school at the time, but she's never had that problem with any other class.

 

Anyway, Latin is a subject my dd loves and Lukeion fills her needs better, but if she were really social, she could have still done well with Lone Pine as far as the Latin goes, but it could have also been very nice for meeting those social needs.

[OnMyOwn]

I just looked on their website and here are Lone Pine's updated AP Latin results from what I posted above.

 

"So far, we have received six 5, eight 4, and one 3 score, so the mean is 4.33. A 5 on the AP is corresponding to an A in the course, a 4 is corresponding to a B or C, and a 3 is corresponding to a "not passing" grade thus far."

 

Apparently, their AP Latin classes wind up being very small. Lukeion got so many kids through to the AP level this year, they wound up dividing the class.

Edited September 19, 2017 by OnMyOwn

[East Coast Sue]

My dd took Latin 1, 2, 3/4 Poetry with Lone Pine- excellent teaching. She then attended a charter school and took two more years of Latin with a rather weak teacher. She scored a 5 on the AP Latin exam and had gold medals on every NLE, with a few perfect papers too. She says that she learned everything she needed from Ms. K at Lone Pine.(Thank you, Karen!)

 

 

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[OnMyOwn]

Sue's post reminded that Lone Pine really builds a lot of prep in for the NLE and the kids do very well on it.  

[pinkelement]

My daughter is taking Lone Pine second year and loves the teacher, Mrs K, the classroom atmosphere, and now she says she loves Latin. She also said the other day if Mrs K was teaching any other language, she would take it too, because she is just that kind excellent teacher. I couldn't have wished for more, to have a kid who wants to do Latin.