can you remiediate out of a diagnosis?

[sarasue7272]

Backstory:

I have been concerned that my son has dyslexia for two years. I had absolutely no money (serioiusly, we were living with family off of unemployment), so I got Recipe for Reading and we worked hard for a year. The second year (second grade) we reviewed a lot and read and his fluency really improved. I am still thinking about getting Barton 2 years later! Anyway, this year he is in public school, third grade. He started the year at level L, they use Fountas & Pinnell. He is in EIP, which is basically a small group setting for 30 min a day for reading instruction. He no longer does many of the things that are classic dyslexia, like reversing b and d, although he does them sometimes. Recently he wrote p instead of q. I can get an assessment for $1500, which of course I don't have. And I have also seen that Lexercise does an eval for $400.

 

I am afraid I will beg/borrow the money, get the assessment, and he won't actually be dyslexic. The school probably won't do anything different if he is dyslexic, I am only thinking about accommodations for the future.

 

Two years ago after kindergarten, he didn't know all his letter sounds, couldn't rhyme, reversed b/d, m/p(???), u/n, E/3, p/q, p/b, d/q, and I can't remember what else. If I had put him in school here in first grade instead of homeschooling, it probably would not be a stretch to have the school test him. Now, he is on grade level for reading, gets good grades in classwork, rarely reverses, no one rhymes in third grade, but his spelling is bad, though not atrocious.

 

I don't know if I should push to get testing at school, pay for testing myself, or just get Barton and forget about a diagnosis. I am just afraid that in 2 years, or even 10 years he will need accommodations. I feel so much stress about this. I know the school has to test if I insist. I don't know what type of testing they will do though.

 

When I think about it too much, my head starts spinning.

[PeterPan]

Personally, I'd put the school to eval, get them to run the CTOPP, and then put that $1500 toward tutoring.  That's a much better way to use your money right now, and you have the legal right to make a formal written request and get them to test.  The CTOPP will show it.  And yes, he could be.

 

PS.  The ps diagnosed my ds with SLD reading in spite of getting through Barton 3.  In fact, it was BECAUSE he had had so much direct instruction but was still struggling, had the low CTOPP, and had a significant gap between IQ and achievement that they could diagnose.  So don't assume anything.  You have the legal right to request the evals.  Just have some evidence/persuasion of why it needs to be done.

[Crimson Wife]

Under Federal law, the school has to do an IEP assessment and you can request specific tests be run. They may not agree, but they'd have to justify why so often they'll just go ahead and run them for you. I would push for a comprehensive language assessment test such as the CELF or the CASL, a test of phonological processing such as the CTOPP, a test of academic achievement such as the Woodcock-Johnson, an IQ test, and an OT eval on the handwriting issues.

 

If you wind up disagreeing with the results of their assessment, you have the legal right to an independent evaluation by the tester of your choice at district expense (it usually takes a fight to get this however).

[Pen]

Personally, I think I'd request whatever testing the school can reasonably do at this time. Most things that need accommodations need fairly recent testing, so spending a fortune personally on testing now is not going to give him accommodations on his SAT other than that it could help start a paper trail, but I think you may already have that begun with the EIP in place. I'd save your $$ for when you are doing better financially, or when you all move beyond what the school can do and is not making progress.  

 

If he seems to have trouble learning material in subjects that use reading to learn, I would push for the school to help provide him with Bookshare, Learning Ally, or other ways to get content aurally (if he can learn by auditory means) while they are addressing his reading in the EIP.

 

I'd also ask if the school has materials that you can use to work on reading with him at home before considering buying a program. They may be thrilled to have you giving help in addition to what they can give and be very willing to send home materials.

[Lecka]

I agree with the previous posters.  

 

Then, I may be looking at this the wrong way, it is very possible, but I have always felt like, if my son improves so much that he does not warrant a diagnosis in the future, then he won't need accommodations, either.  

 

This is kind-of what happened with my older son.  We took him last year (our insurance ended up paying, yay!... military insurance).   He was 9, and it was at a point where we needed something for his handwriitng.  He is diagnosed with dysgraphia now.  

 

He was doing a lot of reading remediation when he was younger.  When he was younger, I felt like there was a very clear path forward with reading remediation.  I didn't feel like we had some big question mark of "what should we do?" or like we needed an evaluation to take to school.  

 

On his report, it states that he has a score gap that is "a residual of his earlier reading difficulties, now largely resolved."  

 

Well, he reads find now.  He truly does not need any extra time.  It would be silly for him, b/c he does not need it.  Now, he does need accommodations for handwriting, right now, today.  But for reading -- yes, he remediated out of a diagnosis (imo), and part of that statement is the implication that he does not NEED accommodations.  

 

Now, there could be some in-the-middle case where someone improves enough not to qualify for accommodations, but would still benefit from them in theory.  But if you have so much improvement that you do not qualify anymore, I don't know if an old test score from 2nd or 3rd grade will matter.  

 

That is how I look at it.  

 

Other ideas for you: contact the reading teacher.  ask what program is used.  ask his group size.  ask how his progress is being measured.  ask what his progress is.  ask if there are any additional programs he could be in (frex -- my son is in afterschool tutoringO.  Does it all give you a feeling like -- this is good stuff, there is progress happening here?  If so, ask what you can do at home.  Do you feel like it is stuff where, yeah, they are doing something, but it doesn't seem that good, or the group size is too big, or he is making no progress?  That is more informaiton.

 

Either way ------ go ahead and write a letter to the principal requresting an evaulation and tkae it to the office, and note on your calendar the date you took it.  

 

I have found it TWICE, that as much as I talk to the teacher and talk to the teacher, that process can get held up very easily.  When you take a letter to the office for the principal?  Here, you are actually going to be told yes or no, they are going to evaluate or not, and in what areas.  

 

You can google for "template to request IEP evaluation" but I have never done such a nice letter.  Both times I have been irritated and handwritten something on a piece of paper and left it in the office.  Well, it counted!  

 

I also found out here, much later that it mattered for us, but at a certain point (summer after 3rd?) they start having a month of summer school, that is run two hours every morning for 6 weeks, and in that program, kids get (I think?) small group tutoring mixed with one-on-one tutoring and some computer time.  It seems like it is good and kids (finally!) make actual progress, instead of just going out into the special reading group.  

 

My son was doing nice, good things when he was in the special reading group.  But in a group of 3 for 30 minutes ------ that was just not the time of intensity that was going to get my son any progress.  So nice for kids where that was all the needed.  Maybe this is your son's situation.  But my son had a higher need, and I did a lot with him at home.

 

But, then he was (very luckily!!!!) caught up before the summer after 3rd, so he never needed to go to that summer program.  But, my friend's son I worried about over those few years, did go to it, and it worked out very well for him.  

 

But it is really, really hard to compare between kids.  Two kids can do the same program, and go through it at different speeds and with different progress.  

 

But with your son in school, you need to do some combination of trying to work with with what the school is doing (if they are doing things that seem good and appropriate) ----- you don't want to go and do an opposite program unless the school's program seems like garbage.  If it seems like garbage -- then yeah, it is a waste of time to support what they are doing.  Then, you also need to do the whole "request an evaluation" thing and read about IEPs.  But the first step for that is probably just to google "how to request an IEP evaluation" and then do the first step.  

 

I also think you want to know some answers to these questions:  you have done Recipe for Reading, so that is good..... Does this level go through all the phonics things, and 2-syllable word patterns?  Has he covered these things at the intensity he needs?  Is he good at decoding now?  

 

Or, does he still need work on decoding?

 

If he is good on decoding, but things are not coming together, then he MAY need to move on to working on fluency.  (There is a progression that goes:  phonemic awareness, decoding, fluency.)   If you have worked on decoding, that is great.  Or, maybe there is still some work to do in decoding, that you can target.  

 

But it is possible that you need to focus in on fluency, which is a little strange, b/c it is SO different than working on decoding.  And, I know, it is "built in" to decoding, but I still had my son have a gap, and then we needed to focus in on fluency.  

 

There are a lot of recommended practices for fluency, and honestly, they are easier and more pleasant than decoding, ime.  So that is nice!  

 

Then, you can google "Barton scope and sequence."  You can see the scope and sequence.  Do you look at it and feel like, "wow, we did some good stuff in Recipe for Reading, but I see there are some gaps my son has b/c we just didn't cover these things, they were not included in the depth and breadth of that program."  Maybe you feel like that.  Maybe you look at it and you feel like, "we have covered these things."  Or, you look and see "okay, he may have 3-4 gaps."   You also *would* be considered as already having prior OG training for your son, so you would probably not be looking at starting in Level 1.  

 

There are also supplemental programs besides Barton you could look at, if you see there are just a few gaps.  Or, you might use a certain level of Barton.  

 

Some of this you may be able to ask the reading teacher.  Do you see gaps in his decoding?  What are they?  Are you mainly working on fluency with him?  Etc.  Maybe you find out he does have decoding gaps, but at school he is working on fluency only.  Well -- how is that going to address his decoding gaps?  Or, maybe you find out they are doing 15 minutes of decoding gaps and 15 minutes of fluency int hat 30 minutes.  Maybe you could be supplementing one or the other at home.  

 

You do just have to ask!  

 

This is a good time in the year, the teacher will have gotten a chance to know your son.  

 

You can also see how she talks about your son.  If she seems at all "down" about him, that is a sign he is not picking up a lot with her (which may not be *her* fault if she is using a required program).  Hopefully she speaks highly of him.  

 

She could also speak highly of him on a personal level with good character traits, and still not see him making progress with her in reading.  Teachers never want to say a child they like personally, is not making good progress.  They think it seems too mean, might wonder if the child will get in trouble at home, if the parents will view their child negatively in a way that reduces future achievement, etc..  Something to keep in mind.

[Pen]

Regarding your title question, I would say that you can "sort of" remediate out of a diagnosis.  

 

My ds had IEP's at various points for speech, reading, and writing. He remediated to where he no longer qualified for an IEP. He still has some speech glitches, cannot write in cursive much at all and is very very slow with his printing. He reads at or above the 90th percentile for his grade, more or less (not recently tested), but he still needs to use audible or audio-visual materials to be able to deal with written materials at his top  interest level in his best subjects (such as history), because his interest and understanding level for that allows him to tackle adult materials which are harder than what is used to assess reading at 90th or above percentile for his grade. His reading is normal for things like Harry Potter, but relatively slow as compared to his general brightness for science or other nonfiction materials. 

 

Before he gets to the college testing stage I plan to have him re-evaluated to see whether he would qualify for any accommodation at that point. And assuming he goes to college, I plan to do whatever can be done  or better, to try to get him to do what needs to be done, so that he can type rather than handwrite whatever he needs to do (I expect most things other than tests would already be expected to be typed), record lectures and  get audio texts and other learning materials to the extent possible.

 

 

From my own pov, although he moved out of qualifying for an IEP, he clearly still has dysgraphia--which has just been worked around by typing or scribing and would no doubt need accommodations if he were in public school; I think he is still dyslexic--but a remediated dyslexic, I don't think he would need reading accommodation at this time in public school at least locally because the education level would be below his learning level so history and so on texts would not be a challenge, and because their year end standardized tests already give unlimited time.   I do not think he any longer would come across as having a speech problem even though some words are hard for him to say, I think the speech has really been remediated into "normal" range.  Also his vision has remediated into normal range so far as I can tell.

[sarasue7272]

So a bit of an update.

 

I gave my son the DORA test this weekend. His scores are fantastic, except spelling.

 

HF: 3.83 (max)

WR: 8.83

PH: 4.5

PA: not tested

SP: 2.17

OV: 4.83

CO: 8.17

 

I feel much better about everything. I may get the phonemic awareness test, since that has been the trouble spot all along. THe other subtests were high enough that it didn't test that one specifically. And I think the poor spelling is because he has a hard time hearing some sounds, and he doesn't always 'see' the word in his head. Today he spelled fought 'fot' but knew it was wrong. I tried to enunciate the difference between them, and I know that was hard for him to hear. Not that he knows all the sounds ough can make anyway.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I hadn't really about the fact that remidiating out of a diagnosis would mean he would no longer need accomodations. But that is probably true.

I think I will relax about getting a diagnosis, and work on spelling. I was really worried that he would not progress without explicit instruction in phonics, but he is close to the max on the phonics subtest anyway. And spelling will help there. I already have AAS so we will continue with that.