My dd is heartbroken and I am in a crisis!

[Erica in PA]

What could you possibly say to a child that was "truthful" and at the same time not be incurably hurtful (or indeed cruel)?

 

I rack my brain searching for the words, but they do not come.

 

Bill

 

I think there could be any number of ways to explain this to a child, depending on one's own beliefs and values. I see this situation differently than the OP does, so the way I might explain it to my dc would be different than the way she would to hers. But ultimately, I think the best approach is to give the other people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, and explain why those people might have made the decision that they did, from their perspective. It doesn't mean you have to say that you agree with their perspective, but I certainly would explain in some way that this was not personal, and that the decision was not made because they do not like her or think that she is bad. It might be tempting to frame it that way out of anger, but I think that would be damaging to a child in the long run. This could be a great opportunity for the OP to teach her daughter to respect the beliefs of others, even when she disagrees, and to understand that differences don't need to be personal.

 

Erica

[Spy Car]

I think the best approach is to give the other people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, and explain why those people might have made the decision that they did, from their perspective.

 

Erica, I can't quite fathom why these folks made the decision they did, but I'm outside their faith community as well.

 

Perhaps you could give us some insight as to why you think they wouldn't consider a little Hindu girl to be a worthy or fitting teammate to little Christian girls.

 

I frankly don't understand the "problem".

 

 

Bill

[Mom to Aly]

I think there could be any number of ways to explain this to a child, depending on one's own beliefs and values. I see this situation differently than the OP does, so the way I might explain it to my dc would be different than the way she would to hers. But ultimately, I think the best approach is to give the other people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, and explain why those people might have made the decision that they did, from their perspective. It doesn't mean you have to say that you agree with their perspective, but I certainly would explain in some way that this was not personal, and that the decision was not made because they do not like her or think that she is bad. It might be tempting to frame it that way out of anger, but I think that would be damaging to a child in the long run. This could be a great opportunity for the OP to teach her daughter to respect the beliefs of others, even when she disagrees, and to understand that differences don't need to be personal.

 

Erica

 

Um, Erica, I don't know where you've gotten the idea that I would teach my daughter anything different, but the last thing I would do is make this a personal affront to her or us. What I told her was that a mistake had been made when we were told we could join. That this group was for Christians only. That it was nothing against us, but that they were only allowing Christians to join at this point. The problem is, she has had one too many problems with Christians treating her badly, and she immediately assumed it was not just because we aren't Christian, but because we are Hindu, and I denied that, although I felt horrible doing it, because I do try never to lie to my daughter, but I felt, in this case, I was justified. But she is a very smart, mature child, and no matter what I said, she realized it didn't just "happen" like that.

 

I'm also somewhat worried because her friends are in this group, and I am not sure what they will say to her, because they were looking forward to her playing. They do not lie, and I would never ask their mother to have them lie, but it is making me nervous. Anyway, that is not something I can or am willing to think about today.

 

But, so you know, the last thing I would want is for my daughter to walk away from this feeling she was the victim of prejudice--that would make a bad situation unbearable to me!

[Erica in PA]

No, I didn't think otherwise!! I didn't mean to give the impression that you haven't handled this well with your dd. It sounds as though you have done exactly what I was talking about... told the truth as gently as you could, and even giving the other party a bit more credit than you believe they deserve. I think that's great!

 

I was just speaking in general, to answer Spy Car's question about how such a question could be answered both truthfully and kindly, and I tried to explain how that could be done. It sounds as though you have already done that, and that is wonderful for your dd. There are many people who, in your situation, would have allowed their own hurt feelings and biases to influence them to the point where they might not as gracious as you were, when explaining the situation to a child. I agree that making a child feel like a victim would make the bad situation so much worse.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong idea!

 

Erica

[Jenny in Florida]

All I can say is that I'm so sorry for you and Aly. We've gone through some ups and downs in our family, including some very, very tough financial times. And I remember all too well how powerless and option-less that can make one feel. I used to say that I felt like Sysiphus, pushing that boulder up the hill all by myself. The difference in my case was all, all too often, there was someone on the other side actively trying to push it right back down.

 

I remember several incidents in which one group or another let us down, and it was always especially painful when I felt like I was trying SO HARD to make things okay for my kids and the world was working against me.

 

For example, we used to be a single-car family. My husband took the car to work most weekdays, unless I needed it to get the kids somewhere. When I wanted to keep the car, I had to get both kids up very early and pack them and all their stuff. We would then drive my husband to work (which, at various points during this period could be anywhere from 30-60 minutes in different directions from home) before we went where we needed to go. Often, there was not enough time between when he needed to be at work and when we needed to be at our destination to go home. So, the kids had to be fed and dressed either before we left the house (which meant getting them up even earlier) or while we were on the road. Depending on where we were, it was not always feasible to go back home after the activity, either, before driving back out to collect my husband. This meant that, on days we needed the car, I would be out with two young children from about 7:00 in the morning until 6:00 that night.

 

All too often, we would go through this whole routine, only to reach our destination and discover that the event had been cancelled or plans had changed. I vividly remember one example. We had pulled our son out of gymnastics lessons because we just couldn't afford the tuition anymore. I searched and searched and found a program through our parks and recreation department that we could afford. It was always a hassle to register for the program, because there were limited slots and the price was so good, but I managed to keep him enrolled for several sessions. So, one day, we had done through our whole morning thing. At the time, my husband was working a good hour north of our home, meaning that, by the time we arrived at the park, we had already been on the road for over two hours.

 

And, although the weather was fine by the time we arrived, it turned out they had cancelled the class that day because there was concern earlier about a big storm. They had called everyone, but I didn't get the message because I was already on the road.

 

I stood in the park and just cried.

 

Now, on its own, it wouldn't have been such a big thing, just a minor irritation. But the truth was that I was absolutely exhausted and under tremendous amounts of stress and just trying to forge ahead on sheer willpower and do the best I could for my children. And it all just felt really big and really personal.

 

And no one understood.

 

I suspect, knowing what you've shared here about your situation, that you may be in a similar place, emotionally. For me, having been there myself, that came through loud and clear in your posts.

 

And, boy, especially in your case, the last thing you needed was to get worked over again by the people you came to for support and understanding. If you can manage to walk away from some of the things that have been said to you here without yet more baggage regarding Christians and Christianity, you may yet qualify for sainthood.

 

I'm so sorry. I do believe that "things usually work out," but I wish with all my heart that they start working out for you and Aly very, very soon.

[Mom to Aly]

All I can say is that I'm so sorry for you and Aly. We've gone through some ups and downs in our family, including some very, very tough financial times. And I remember all too well how powerless and option-less that can make one feel. I used to say that I felt like Sysiphus, pushing that boulder up the hill all by myself. The difference in my case was all, all too often, there was someone on the other side actively trying to push it right back down.

 

I remember several incidents in which one group or another let us down, and it was always especially painful when I felt like I was trying SO HARD to make things okay for my kids and the world was working against me.

 

For example, we used to be a single-car family. My husband took the car to work most weekdays, unless I needed it to get the kids somewhere. When I wanted to keep the car, I had to get both kids up very early and pack them and all their stuff. We would then drive my husband to work (which, at various points during this period could be anywhere from 30-60 minutes in different directions from home) before we went where we needed to go. Often, there was not enough time between when he needed to be at work and when we needed to be at our destination to go home. So, the kids had to be fed and dressed either before we left the house (which meant getting them up even earlier) or while we were on the road. Depending on where we were, it was not always feasible to go back home after the activity, either, before driving back out to collect my husband. This meant that, on days we needed the car, I would be out with two young children from about 7:00 in the morning until 6:00 that night.

 

All too often, we would go through this whole routine, only to reach our destination and discover that the event had been cancelled or plans had changed. I vividly remember one example. We had pulled our son out of gymnastics lessons because we just couldn't afford the tuition anymore. I searched and searched and found a program through our parks and recreation department that we could afford. It was always a hassle to register for the program, because there were limited slots and the price was so good, but I managed to keep him enrolled for several sessions. So, one day, we had done through our whole morning thing. At the time, my husband was working a good hour north of our home, meaning that, by the time we arrived at the park, we had already been on the road for over two hours.

 

And, although the weather was fine by the time we arrived, it turned out they had cancelled the class that day because there was concern earlier about a big storm. They had called everyone, but I didn't get the message because I was already on the road.

 

I stood in the park and just cried.

 

Now, on its own, it wouldn't have been such a big thing, just a minor irritation. But the truth was that I was absolutely exhausted and under tremendous amounts of stress and just trying to forge ahead on sheer willpower and do the best I could for my children. And it all just felt really big and really personal.

 

And no one understood.

 

I suspect, knowing what you've shared here about your situation, that you may be in a similar place, emotionally. For me, having been there myself, that came through loud and clear in your posts.

 

And, boy, especially in your case, the last thing you needed was to get worked over again by the people you came to for support and understanding. If you can manage to walk away from some of the things that have been said to you here without yet more baggage regarding Christians and Christianity, you may yet qualify for sainthood.

 

I'm so sorry. I do believe that "things usually work out," but I wish with all my heart that they start working out for you and Aly very, very soon.

Jenny, :grouphug:! Yes, I am in that spot, and I know exactly how you felt! And, yes, it has been a disappointment, when all I wanted was some support and help to receive some of the responses I have here, but most have been so kind and so understanding, I'm trying to ignore the rest. Just like the majority of the Christians I have met have been wonderful, and welcoming, so I try to ignore the ones that haven't and not let myself be prejudiced by them.

 

I'm so sorry you and your family had to go through all of that. Thank you so much for sharing, and I hope things have improved for you, as I hope they do for us, as well.:001_smile:

[Osmosis Mom]

I still think a private group should have the freedom to be exclusive if they want to.

 

When my dc and I were at the PUBLIC swimming pool and saw the staff papering over the windows so that a group of Muslim women and their children could swim without anyone being able to see into the pool I wasn't upset. It didn't bother me that all-female lifeguards were provided either. I didn't feel any need to ask to join them because I respected their privacy/traditions. I could've asked if I could join them, but I don't know if they would've appreciated having me show up in a bikini or try to bring my dh along just because we would be comfortable swimming in a co-ed situation.

 

 

Sorry, but this might be out of context, but I don't get your post here at all. You saw the pool preparing for a group of Muslim women. And then you are asking if it would be OK for you to tag along or bring your dh?? OK, Muslim sisters do sometimes rent a pool and set it up for privacy and pay for it out of their pocket. This does not take place during public swimming hours and there is clearly a sign. The purpose of them covering up the windows is that we do not swim in bikinis or with mixed sexes. Get it? Nobody is asked to sign a SoF upon entering the sacred quarters of the pool, just to be dressed the way we expect and to be of same gender. I have no clue how this is the same as the OP's dilemma., but I may have missed something essential here?? There is no way I could *ever* imagine a female being turned away in this situation.

[Osmosis Mom]

What if you asked to swim with the Muslim women while following all their requirements and they told you no b/c you weren't Muslim?

 

But that is just not going to happen. Have you ever met and spoken to a Muslim? Because if you had, then you'd know how friendly we are and how we love to try to break down stereotypes and have interactions with people (preferably social!).

[Osmosis Mom]

with a hypothetical situation involving Muslim women swimming?? It's ridiculous. Those swimming sessions are privately paid for, but as I said if you fulfill the physical requirements then NOBODY is going to turn you away. This is highly judgmental to base a hypothetical situation on an already marginalised sub-group.

 

But see, this is a *sports* team for kids, apparently the point of which was not Christian fellowship. Which is actually beside the point. Here's the thing that I think most of us are reacting to--at first this group was open, but then according to the OP, "the head has been rethinking it--considering the fact that we are not just not Christian, but that we are Hindu--apparently a bit too "off"--and is going to pray about it, and check with group, but, even though there is no requirement for a statement of faith, thinks it may be "too much to ask" of group to let us in."

 

So it was this family's specific faith that caused the group to reject them. What if the muslim group told you that because you were Catholic, that was just too out there for them and that it was going to make them rethink the entire focus of their group? What if it was your child they were rejecting on the basis of her faith, after she had already been told she could join? It really isn't the same as beginning with a closed group. This has a very picky-choosy feel about it that is distinctly unkind and bigoted.

 

Barb