Barton Reading - What is grade level 4?

[nanette0269]

My son is finishing up level 3 right now...just has 2 1/2 lessons to go.  We started at the end of April. Our goal is to have him reading ready for 4th grade by next September.  We are in a Montessori school, so the average reading ability of the students is typically well above grade level.  So, for him to be able to do the work, I predict that he would have to have a 4.5-5.0 reading level.

 

Grade 4-5 classroom is a huge step compared to the mixed grade 1-3 classroom.  We are trying to tackle any potential OT issues, as well as getting him help on managing his anxiety related to school.  There are now no obvious OT issues, but his handwriting speed is not up to par.  We started Handwriting without Tears in May, and he now writes text like a competent 1st grader, when before he was writing like a pre-K child.  I'm pleased with the progress, and we are now using an italic handwriting program which should serve him well for the next 10 months.  I have little concerns about his handwriting, although I expect that this will always be a slight challenge for him....I just need to be diligent!  

 

His defiance/behavior is the larger issue.  It definitely limits his productivity in his Barton tutoring sessions, but the slowness I'm assured is more a result of his aptitude than his attitude.  But, the anxiety and therefore the defiance towards works definitely sneaks into his other classes.  He does not have a disorder, but rather its his coping method for dealing with the dyslexia and the 2.5 years of reading in classes where the markers were oblivious to everyone.  Hopefully, we will get there.

 

My big question for you....pertains to grade level reading.  We are progressing VERY slowly on his lessons, given that he has four private sessions every week.  I appreciate that his tutor is determined not to move on until he has a solid grasp of everything.  She never wants to be in a position to have to repeat a level/lesson after moving on.  So, assuming he has a firm grasp of the work and can be fluent, what grade level equivalent is achieved after completing level 4?  level 5?

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Barton really doesn't work that way.  There is no one to one grade level correspondence.  The program breaks up all the needed components for decoding and fluency for reading and spelling into specific sections, with each level focusing on a certain area and each lesson within that level focusing on a specific skill set needed.  By the end of each level there should be mastery of all the skill sets introduced plus previous skill sets mastered should still be solid.  In other words, each level is a part of the bigger picture, but they are not really tied to a specific grade level.  That being said, level 9 and 10 are really more High School level prep and are considered more for 8th/9th grade.  It is usually critical that a child is really solid on one level before moving on to the next one, at least for most kids, or they really get tripped up in the next level and may have to go back to a previous level to completely repeat the earlier lessons.

 

I would say that if your child had successfully made it through Level 6, he'd probably be in pretty good shape for 4th grade material.  Silent E is introduced in Level 6.  Even so, if he finishes Level 4 successfully, that should give him a pretty good leap forward.  For school, if he were allowed some accomodations, he could probably read quite a bit of the material in class and do the rest at home with your help when he runs into snags.  And there are always audio books.  The spelling might be an issue,depending on what program they are using and how well your child is picking up the spelling side of Barton, but maybe they would be willing to give him lists based on Barton?  Or at least shorter lists of whatever words they are learning in school?

 

I will say that Level 4 is both longer and usually considerably more challenging than the previous levels.  In fact, a lot of kids end up running into issues in Level 4 that may take time to surmount.  Mine sure did.  If he can make it through Level 4 successfully, the other levels might go a tad faster, perhaps 2-3 months each.  Some people have had to take twice that or longer to get through Level 4.

 

Hopefully someone else will post soon with more details.  Some have used the program far longer than I and some have had OG training so their terms and response may be more accurate.

 

Good luck and best wishes.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, I did want to clarify something. Has your child had evaluations? Is the school working with you to help your son be successful?

[Lecka]

I agree, Barton does not correspond to grade levels.

 

My son has had horrible problems with handwriting speed that have led to him having major school-related anxiety.  It is a big deal.  It was not the *only* reason he was having anxiety, but it turned out to be a major, major contributing reason, and it was something that was really not on my radar.  

 

I think this is an area where you need to look for a way to keep this from being a problem for him in school.  We got this for my son in public school sufficiently that he was able to move past the anxiety related to it.  He was able to do oral answers, and sometimes he did reduced writing also.  I scribe for him at home.  Sometimes (at one point, much more often) his teacher would scribe for him to get him started so that he wasn't staring at a blank page anymore, and that would be really, really helpful for him.  

 

If you are seeing that he has slow handwriting in the classroom he is in, and he is moving up to a more-challenging classroom, I think this is something you have to address.  

 

My son *wanted very badly* to do well in school and if he couldn't even *write fast enough* to complete his work ------- it was something that made him very, very miserable, while giving him an appearance of not caring or of just not focusing.  

 

I am one of the fewer people one here (since this is primarily a homeschooling forum) who has had a decent-to-good experience in working with the school on this kind of issue.  But it is just something that jumps out at me -- it would be great to be pro-active with the school on this, and come up with ways for him to succeed in his school setting given that he has slow handwriting.  

 

And apart from the speed -- my son has also been embarrassed by what his handwriting looks like.  It has been a major effort to help him on this issue of embarrassment.  I would say we are in a good place right now, where he recognizes he has some strengths and some weaknesses.  But he has strengths that are recognized within school and he gets positive messages at school.  

 

But it is very noticeable when you go to 4th grade and have handwriting that looks like 1st grade.  It can be embarrassing to kids.  He needs teachers who will stick up for him.  

 

Another related issue -- is having answers counted wrong b/c of poor handwriting.  This comes up with my son once in a while.  When it used to happen ----- he would be incredibly upset and demoralized.  It made him want to give up, after he worked so, so hard, and then just had answers marked wrong b/c the person grading marked his answers wrong without making an effort.  

 

However at our school, a lot of papers are graded by teaching aides, so it could be a new teaching aide that didn't know him, and not something where it was "on purpose" in any way.  

 

We have worked with him to be comfortable to talk to the teacher.  Also, his teachers have graded his papers themselves, b/c they get familiar with his handwriting, and they also can ask him to answer a question orally while they are grading, if they are not sure what he has written.  

 

Anyway -- we took my son last year (late 4th grade) after a lot of work and waiting on his handwriting, and he is diagnosed with dysgraphia now, and he has a recommendation to start typing more in the classroom.  

 

Not getting into other issues -- I think the handwriting issue is a "must" to address in addressing his attitude towards school and school-related anxiety.  

 

It is something that was not on my radar the way some other things were, but it turned out, it was very significant for my son in ways I did not realize.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with Lecka. DS ended up with severe anxiety and depression from his 2nd grade year but it was mostly the handwriting that really undermined his ability to function.

[Storygirl]

I haven't used Barton, but I do have children with dyslexia and dysgraphia, so I wanted to add a couple of thoughts.

 

First, you mentioned that he has no obvious OT issues, but handwriting IS an OT issue. Just working hard at the handwriting may not produce the result of better handwriting. OT might approach it from a totally different angle, working on proprioception or other body work that does not seem obviously connected to handwriting. DS11 had several months of OT, and as far as I know, she did not work with him specifically on handwriting issues. She kept saying that improving the proprioception would improve everything, including fine motor. Not being an expert, I had some doubts and wished she would sit down and work on handwriting with him deliberately. As it turned out, however, the things that she did work on had a positive result on his writing. DS11 still has a lot of handwriting issues and is behind, but he has noticed in himself that it is easier to get his pencil to move across the page faster than before, and he has been pleased with the difference.

 

Also, DS11 tends to be a little more oblivious about how he compares to his classmates, but he has noticed his handwriting difference, and it bothers him, so I agree with the others. If his handwriting resembles a first grader's, but he is in an a classroom with fourth and fifth graders, there is going to be an obvious and bothersome difference there.

 

Secondly, I just wanted to mention that dyslexia and ADHD often go hand in hand. His behavior issues could be related to undiagnosed ADHD, so I might suggest having him screened for that if you have not already.

 

Third, so this must be a private school? Does he have an IEP? Will they serve an IEP? The public school must evaluate him, even if he is not enrolled in their classrooms, so that is an option for you if you have not pursued it yet. If he has a diagnosis of dyslexia, there are accommodations that he should be able to get in the classroom and for standardized tests. Once you get to the ACT and SAT, etc., they want to see that there is a long history of diagnosis and accommodations before they will allow accommodations on their tests, so it's worthwhile to start the paper trail now for that. And he might qualify for Learning Ally, formerly Recordings for the Blind. Being able to receive some of his reading through audio might be a big help to him, especially as the material grows more challenging.

[nanette0269]

There were significant OT issues and the vast majority have cleared up. We are wait listed to see another OT to rule out remaining issues. He has made tremendous progress with handwriting, and the last developmental doctor saw no significant deficiencies with his handwriting except for speed. And again, we are light years where we were 6 months ago, so try co census is that he is progressive nicely now and we are past the hurdle. So I think we will get to 3rd grade handwriting before 4th grade starts so he won't be significantly behind his peers.

 

There is no anxiety/adhd "disorder", but there are symptoms of both. So, no chemical imbalance issue but rather emotional stress causing both anxiety and adhd symptoms.

 

My concern is that 3rd grade is a pivotal year. I want to have a goal in my head so I can share that with him and get him motivated in a non-stressful way. Right now, he doesn't see the end of Barton. He asked me yesterday if he has to do Barton until he graduates from high school! I hope that we will be done in two years, personally. 4 sessions/week is tough.

 

School is helping but they honestly don't know what to do. Our Barton tutor does guide them on accommodation, fortunately. And he is having his Barton sessions while everyone else in school has their trading class. So yes, we need his reading grade level to progress....but more importantly we need him to develop the proper anxiety coping methods and develop that self motivation so he is cooperative in class and engaged in learning. This is their primary concern, and mine. Hopefully he behavioral therapist will make some strides towards this.

 

I will not return for an IEP. The county was ridiculous and while they identified a speech issue they ignored the OT and reading concerns that I have. I've had him privately tested a few times for different things....and he has classic dyslexia and was low muscle tone with bilateral coordination issues with some minor manipulation issues.

 

But for Barton, is is possible for one student to finish level 4 and read at a 2nd grade level and one finish level 4 and read at a 6th grade level?

[Lecka]

My son took a long time with fluency.  Other kids develop fluency much more quickly.  

 

I think it is hard to plan a timeline when you want "fluent reading" at a certain level and not just "ability to decode."  

 

I am not putting down Barton -- I am just acknowledging -- fluent reading is a difficult task and there are a lot of moving parts.  

 

Even if Barton is working on fluency ---- it is not having kids reading, keeping track of, comprehending, etc, a 100-page book.  

 

That can be its own skill and take its own time.

 

But I have a strong impression that *many* kids make this leap very quickly from reaching a certain level.  

 

It just was not the case for my son.  He needed time and experience.  

 

Other kids will have had a year or more of gaining this experience, and your son will be new to this level -------- it is not apples to apples, for how he will do.

 

I think you just have to see how he does.

 

It is also a problem to me -- you are worried about one year from now.

 

What about his slow handwriting right now, this year?  

 

It is a really common thing for him to have anxiety about right now, this year.  What are you doing about it right now?

 

So, the school has no suggestions.  Maybe you should look into this area.  

 

I think if he is in school now (different if you are pulling him out), and he is anxious now, you need to actually try to address the factors that could be contributing to his anxiety in school, now.  

 

Not just make a plan where if he can move at a certain speed, then he will reach a certain level, everything will be better for next year.

 

I think that is admirable.  

 

I just think that needs to be part of a two-pronged approach.  

 

To get him more cooperative -- I think you need to try to meet him where he is, and give him tools to succeed.  

 

In the short-term -- Barton is not doing that.  Having slow, 1st-grade handwriting is not doing that.  

 

So you seem like you are doing great on remediating.  But accommodating is something you need to think about, too.  

 

You can google things like "accommodations" and "classroom accommodations."  

 

It sounds like your school will work with you (yay!) but may not have their own expertise -- that means you may be the one to bring these things up and say "what about this?"  

[OneStepAtATime]

There were significant OT issues and the vast majority have cleared up. We are wait listed to see another OT to rule out remaining issues. He has made tremendous progress with handwriting, and the last developmental doctor saw no significant deficiencies with his handwriting except for speed. And again, we are light years where we were 6 months ago, so try co census is that he is progressive nicely now and we are past the hurdle. So I think we will get to 3rd grade handwriting before 4th grade starts so he won't be significantly behind his peers.

 

There is no anxiety/adhd "disorder", but there are symptoms of both. So, no chemical imbalance issue but rather emotional stress causing both anxiety and adhd symptoms.

 

My concern is that 3rd grade is a pivotal year. I want to have a goal in my head so I can share that with him and get him motivated in a non-stressful way. Right now, he doesn't see the end of Barton. He asked me yesterday if he has to do Barton until he graduates from high school! I hope that we will be done in two years, personally. 4 sessions/week is tough.

 

School is helping but they honestly don't know what to do. Our Barton tutor does guide them on accommodation, fortunately. And he is having his Barton sessions while everyone else in school has their trading class. So yes, we need his reading grade level to progress....but more importantly we need him to develop the proper anxiety coping methods and develop that self motivation so he is cooperative in class and engaged in learning. This is their primary concern, and mine. Hopefully he behavioral therapist will make some strides towards this.

 

I will not return for an IEP. The county was ridiculous and while they identified a speech issue they ignored the OT and reading concerns that I have. I've had him privately tested a few times for different things....and he has classic dyslexia and was low muscle tone with bilateral coordination issues with some minor manipulation issues.

 

But for Barton, is is possible for one student to finish level 4 and read at a 2nd grade level and one finish level 4 and read at a 6th grade level?

Yes,  yes it is very possible.  But this isn't really a Barton thing so much as different kids have different strengths and weaknesses thing, even if they have the same diagnosis.  DD went from only being able to decode books at more of the Clifford level in 5th grade to reading Divergent 18 months later once we started Barton.  She basically went from 1st grade reading to 5th grade or 6th grade for fun fiction reading in 18 months.  She had finished Level 1, 2 and most of 3.  However, she was reading silently.  Out loud reading was still not anywhere near fluent and non-fiction decoding was way, way, way behind.  Now, she reads well, even out loud, but still struggles some with fluency and decoding for things we haven't covered yet.  Spelling lags behind that a bit in some ways but has leaped ahead in others.  

 

What I am trying to say is there just isn't any way to predict ahead of time how well your child will be reading in x-number of days or months or years based on where the child might be in Barton in x-number of days or months or years.  I think that is one of the truly frustrating things about this process.  Because their brains process things in a non-linear way, and there may be many things involved in their struggles and successes, they don't always progress from point A to point B to point C in a predictable manner.  For the parent/teacher it is very hard to predict from even day to day what they can do and what they can't.  They may stagnate on point B for months and months, then suddenly leap over point C all the way to point F.  Or maybe they never really make it off of point A but finally can limp along in point C to function.  Or maybe they move smoothly through all those points then hit a wall at point F and have to go back to point C and begin again.  And that applies across the board, not just in Barton lessons or reading skills in general.  It all depends on the child, the tutor, any other external influences (such as what is happening in the classroom) and where they are developmentally.

 

I will say this.  DD was sooo uninterested in Barton and dragged her feet (she was 6th grade when we started) but after she was mostly through level 3 she received that book, Divergent, for Christmas.  She realized when she opened it that she could read it.  While I did read ahead myself on a Kindle version so we could discuss if she ran into trouble, and sometimes she would ask me to read a chapter to her, I did not make her read it out loud.  I let her read it to herself as she chose to.  She was so pumped that she could decode enough words to follow the story line that she started asking for Barton lessons instead of fighting the Barton lessons.  Are they fun?  No.  But she recognized that they actually were helping.  She was finally unlocking the codes of reading.

 

Level 9 and 10 are really helpful for High School level work but I think getting through at least Level 6 is what elementary kids need if at all possible.  If your son were able to complete Level 4 in, say, 6 months, and Level 5 in 3, he could be starting Level 6 next summer, possibly completing it before or right after school started.  Rushing is usually a bad idea, though, so if he runs into snags the private tutor may need to slow down, possibly incorporate other systems to get him over the humps.  Make plans as you need to for your own sanity.  Just please don't get too attached to those plans.

 

Best wishes.

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, and I did want to mention that my son had always done well in school and enjoyed it, until he hit second grade.  His handwriting was not bad but it was so slow he could not keep up with his classmates.  His teacher was unsypmpathetic.  He was struggling to keep up with the reading, but intellectually he was understanding the material faster than most of his classmates.  He was miserable.  Anxiety and depression eventually turned to anger and defiance.  I should have pulled him out sooner than we did.  He still has lasting emotional scars.

 

DD functioned in school through 5th grade but her handwriting was never an issue.  It helped her to make it through school better than her brother.  Even so, she was under stress.  She had anxiety and depression.  We didn't realize how much until last year.  I was going to move the kids to another city and enroll them in a homeschool co-op once a week while we sought specialized tutoring for the year.  The co-op was in an old school.  She walked in and her anxiety ratcheted up 10 fold.  By the time we left her hands were shaking, her face was death white, and she had tears trickling down her cheeks.  PTSD.  She had actually had some lovely teachers while at her elementary school and had some good friends and some great academic experiences.  However, the years and years of stress trying to keep up with classmates also caused emotional damage.  

 

Work as hard as you can to reduce that stress for your child.  His emotional stability right now will affect how he sees himself for years to come.  Give him the scaffolding he needs to feel successful and help him find things that matter to him.  Give him the tools he needs to do things that he cares about.  DD has thrived since we started focusing on who she is, not just what the world thinks she should be doing.  She loves art so we give her lots of art supplies and instruction and time to pursue that interest.  She loves writing, so we provide her with whatever she needs to succeed at writing (including scribing for her, providing her with speech to text software, etc.).  She is into photography so she does courses in that and is given time each day to pursue this interest.  In giving her the support she needs to find out what she is actually good at, it has given her the impetus to try harder in the areas of weakness.  When she was in school, I failed to do that.  I was so hyper focused on her deficits, I failed to see the child in front of me and nurture her.  

 

I hope this makes sense.  Sorry. Typing on the fly.  You were a better parent than me.  I did not get evaluations until poor DD was already in 5th grade.  We should have done it much, much sooner.  At the same time, she is now thriving in ways I could never have predicted back then.  And we are closer than we have ever been.  Keep focused on the positive as much as you can.  Cherish the child you have and give yourself hugs for seeking help when you did.  Good job, Mom.  :)

[Heathermomster]

Call Susan Barton and ask your questions about levels and grade equivalency.  She is friendly and generally happy to answer questions about her program.

 

 

[Julie of KY]

I agree with everything posted above.

 

Barton does not correlate to grade levels. If your son has only completed level 4 by next year (and yes, it's a long, hard level) then he won't be reading at 4th grade level because he won't have even encountered silent e which isn't introduced until level 6. The progression is not what others expect, but it works well.

 

Are you working at home as well as the tutor? There are lots of fluency drills that can be done at home to practice what's already been taught and still have the tutor do all the teaching.

 

Talk to the school, talk to your tutor, talk to Susan Barton directly - she really is very open to talking to anyone on the phone.

[PeterPan]

For the op, what you're not understanding is that students come with lots of different backgrounds and strengths.  If someone has a visual strength, has a lot of prior experience with text, no comprehension issues, and goes through Barton 4, they will end up reading at a TOTALLY DIFFERENT LEVEL from someone like my ds who has little experience with text and serious comprehension issues.  You're also confusing decoding with reading.  Just because someone can DECODE doesn't mean they can READ.  My ds can decode appropriately for where he's at in Barton 4, but he struggles to pick up text and read because of his other issues (ASD, language processing).

 

The only way to know where your ds is at is to get the tutor to administer a reading comprehension test and see.  There are short informal ones like the McCall Crabbs books and longer things like the Woodcock Johnson achievement test and others.  That's what you're really asking for, and that's the way to get that information.  Get them to run some testing to see where he is, both with decoding *and* with comprehension.  

 

You mentioned behavioral issues and emotional regulation issues.  Is he getting OT yet?  If you are not, I would *strongly* encourage you to pursue this.  That's frustrating that the school blew you off, and I can see why you're wanting a change.  Has he had a full private psych eval yet to look for ADHD and additional issues?  I have an IEP for my ds because of the way disability funding works in our state.  I was surprised at the things they put in the IEP, and actually they could have taken in farther.  They had quite a bit of support for behavior with things like visual schedules.  I'm just wondering if maybe he needs some additional support there, and then I'm taking that one step further and wondering how a Montessori school is going to meet that need.  My impression is they have *less* structure, not more, and ADHD, ASD, etc. tend to respond well to structure and clear expectations.  Hold it, I just realized you're in the Montessori school now!  Hmm, how is his behavior with that?  That's what I'm saying to look into, because the NUMBER ONE CHANGE any psych will tell you to make if your labels are ADHD is STRUCTURE.  Has he had a full psych eval to know that you have *all* the issues diagnosed and have *all* the types of supports he needs to be successful?  It sounds like he has dysgraphia as well.

[nanette0269]

thanks for all of the feedback.  I suppose I was equating decoding with fluency...and if not equating them, presuming that they are highly correlated.  I think everything else that we are doing is perfect for him.  So, lets just cross our fingers, continue to work on the fluency tests every night under the guidance of his tutor and hope that we get to where we need to be before 4th grade starts.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck, hugs and best wishes, OP.  :)