If You LOOOOVE FLL and WWE...

[Hunter]

If you are head over heels in love with FLL and WWE, how do you schedule it, and do you use level 4?

[ScoutTN]

Ok, I'll respond. I do like FLL and WWE a lot because they have been very effective so far with my kids.

 

I don't need or love the scriptedness of FLL, but we are using it all the way through level 4. Lots of diagramming in 4. :) I am a grammar nerd. 

I use the old combo book for levels 1 and 2. Just the straight grammar lessons, we do writing and poetry separately. FLL, regardless of level is 3x a week for 5-15 minutes for us and we've never had trouble finishing a book in a school year.

 

WWE, we only use 2 and 3, but for those years, I love it. I don't need level 1, easy enough to do myself. My Dd did not need level 4. By the end of level 3, she was just done with it. Done. As SWB recommends, we are finding something else to fill two years between WWE3 and WWS. a little CAP, Treasured Conversations and some writing by mom based on SWB's writing for middle grades lecture. 

WWE, I usually schedule as written 4x a week. If my student is comfortable, can do it reasonably easily and we need the time elsewhere in the week, I occasionally combine the copywork with another part. But, I find that my students do better when they write every day, consistently.

 

hth

[Pegs]

I'm listening in on this one. :)

[Peaceful Isle]

I love FLL ! I used level 3 last year and am using level 4 this year. Works great with my ds personality. We are also using/ have been using WWE. It's a struggle for us, but I'm not really sure what else to use that will work as well.

[Hunter]

I just found out my library has almost all the TWTM books in Overdrive ebooks. I'd really like to take advantage of this resource.

 

I've never really looked at these books until about a week ago. I saw a big bulky workbook or two at the bookstore, but was immediately overwhelmed by the size.

 

I'm realizing the lessons are not that long or involved even though the books are so big.

 

As I looked at the samples and then the actual eBooks, they seem to be clicking with me.

 

I'm reading level 3 right now.

[redsquirrel]

We did FLL 3-4 times a week (mostly 3) and WWE 4 times a week.

 

I used WWE a year 'behind' with my hating to write boys. They read and spell and narrate just fine, but would insist their hands were going to drop off if I made them physically write. So, yes, I had my eldest do WWE4 in 5th grade then then WWS 1 in 6th.  My younger boy did WWE3 in 4th grade and will take a writing class via WTA this year using WWS 1.  We'll see how it goes.

 

We used FLL 1-4 and then R&S in years 5-8.

[LisaKinVA]

I do the old-style FLL 1 & 2, before moving into FLL3.  They will all go through level 4.  Grades 5-7, we do Michael Clay Thompson for Grammar & Vocab.

 

WWE, I don'tstart in 1st grade.  We're doing other things instead. I usually pick up WWE in 3rd grade.  I stretch WWE4 out to two years and begin supplementing with Killgallon.  Grade 6 is Killgallon and Story Starters, and about 1/2 way through the year we start WWS, about half speed, increasing the pace as the child can handle it.  We pick up WWS2 somewhere in 7th and finish up with WWS3 in 8th.

[Hunter]

What would be the plan that uses as few non TWTM resources as possible?

 

ALL never got published, with the comments that there are good things already published. None of those suggested things come in eBook right?

 

Would this be crazy?

 

Grades 1-2 FLL 1 and WWE 1

Grade 3 FLL 2 and WWE 2

Grade 4 FLL 3 and WWE 3

Grade 5 FLL 4 and WWE 4 and TWTM 5 outlining

Grade 6 WWS 1 and Daily Grammar Parts of speech ch. 1-7

Grade 7 WWS 2 and Daily Grammar Parts of a Sentence ch. 8-30

Grade 8 WWS 3 and Daily Grammar Mechanics ch. 31-43

[kalusignan]

We're only in 2nd grade, but we looooooove it. We complete FLL three times a week for 10-15 min and WWE twice per week (1 copy work and one narration each day) for 20-30 min. This is an EASY, get-it-done curriculum.

 

This is the tentative plan. We're 6 weeks into 2nd grade.

 

1st - FLL1 and Writing across curriculum

2nd - FLL2 and WWE1

3rd - FLL3 and WWE 2

4th - FLL4 and WWE3

 

I can't imagine spreading FLL1 across 2 years.  Maybe in the upper levels that would be easier, but FLL1 and 2 are fairly simplistic and easy to accomplish for that age.

[Hunter]

Everyone's feedback is much appreciated. Now that I found out my library has Kindle versions of all the books, I can preview them on my phone, but it is harder to see the big picture on a screen. I need to read these books with some big picture preparation first.

 

Thanks!

[Hunter]

FLL and WWE are meant to be used together at the same level? Do they line up with SOTW, too?

[Sahamamama]

If you are head over heels in love with FLL and WWE, how do you schedule it, and do you use level 4?

 

Well, not head over heels, exactly, but we are solid users. LOL.

 

So far, with three girls, our journey through Writing with Ease has plodded along like this:

 

1st Grade -- completed Level 1 entirely, everyone was a bit bored with it by the end, but it still "got done"

 

2nd Grade -- completed Level 2 from Week 1 through Week 27, so that's 3/4ths of the level; PLUS wrote some narrations from the D'Aulaire biographies (Lincoln, Washington, Franklin, Buffalo Bill, Leif the Lucky); PLUS completed the Memoria Press study guides for Sarah Noble and Tales from Beatrix Potter; PLUS did additional copywork (cursive); PLUS wrote some letters to family

 

3rd Grade -- completed the remaining weeks of Level 2 (Weeks 28--36); completed half of Level 3 (Weeks 1-18); PLUS wrote a few simple book reports (Little House in Big Woods, Little House on Prairie, Pippi Longstocking, Ben & Me); PLUS completed the Memoria Press study guides for Farmer Boy and Charlotte's Web; PLUS did additional copywork; PLUS wrote letters to family

 

4th Grade -- completed the second half of Level 3 (Weeks 19--36); PLUS wrote 10 reports from History, 10 reports from Science, and took notes for our literature discussion (Book Club); PLUS completed additional copywork; PLUS wrote about 20 letters to family & friends; PLUS wrote in our family's "Record Book" for fun things we do as a family

 

5th Grade -- My oldest is about to start WWS 1 this week. ;) Our goal this year is just to begin it. I am positive that we will not finish WWS 1 in 5th Grade. However, I think that she is ready to begin, though last year she would not have been. I think it's good that this level begins with THESAURUS activities. What could be cooler than that? :) She is eager, so we'll see how it goes.

 

We could not have survived another level of WWE. Three levels was fine, but a fourth would undo me. I don't know if I would say that these courses are "fun." But neither are barn chores, you know? Sometimes you do what you have to do. FWIW, I did think that OPG was fun, but I just loved teaching my kids to read. They were so excited about reading! Grammar, eh, not so much. :)

 

First Language Lessons has happened like this:

 

Kindergarten -- Level 1, entirely orally, grammar only, about 5 minutes, about twice per week?

 

1st Grade -- Level 2, mostly orally, a few times I wrote something on a piece of paper or a marker board, I don't remember much written work for the student, maybe copying a name? grammar only

 

2nd Grade -- Level 3, grammar only, first half; so what I did was to list only the grammar lessons (no copywork, no narrations, no picture study, no poetry), divide those in half, and do those for 2nd grade; comes out to about 2 lessons per week

 

3rd Grade -- Level 3, grammar only, second half of the level

 

4th Grade -- Level 4, grammar only, first half

 

5th Grade -- Level 4, grammar only, second half

 

I should add that for Levels 3 and 4, we did also do the dictionary lessons, contractions lessons, and letter writing lessons (adapted), which were all worthwhile. But we have our own poetry, do other copywork, don't need additional narrations (because there are enough in WWE) -- so we focused on the grammar content.

 

I appreciate that WWE is straightforward and clear. It is not unnecessarily wordy, as so many other writing programs are! Just cut to the chase, already! I like that WWE provides feedback to the instructor as to what the student's output ought to be. I like that WWE shifts in Level 3 to be directed to the student (very good move). I really, really like that Level 4 is "optional." ;)

 

I like that FLL is adaptable, in that if you want to drop out the copywork or narrations or poetry, they are not so integrated that you can't just cut them out. I like that it is a completely separate grammar component, not tied to all the other English components. This has allowed us to move grammar along at its own pace and tailor our English line-up the way we like it. I like the repetition, and if at times it seems like too much, we condense it or skip it or do two lessons at once.

 

While I think that my children have absorbed and are able to apply much of what they've learned in WWE (i.e., they can complete other writing assignments with ease), I don't think there has been much retention of abstract concepts with FLL. They have the definitions down pat, but they still do that deer-in-headlights thing when they have to apply those definitions to actual sentences (e.g., "find the predicate adjectives"). I'm not sure what to do about that. We briefly tried Growing with Grammar. I threw it in the trash. So, we'll stick with FLL until we run out of the levels, and then continue with either Rod & Staff, CLE English, or Hake. HTH.

[prairiewindmomma]

I've had three kids use WWE and FLL (or some bits of them).

 

FLL is pretty straightforward.  Volumes 1 & 2 are oral. We do them as scheduled. Volume 1 is very gentle, and I find that some of my kids need more discussion as reinforcement.  I do prefer it to VIE1 which is very similar in content.  Volumes 3 & 4 of FLL are AMAZING!!! I REALLY wish that ALL would be released.  We have tried bits of other materials, but we haven't found the right mix. My boys ended up using Voyages in English afterwards and that's been good, but not amazing.  My oldest still struggles with some of the application, and his writing shows that.

 

WWE has been a good fit for most of my kids. For my one who has dysgraphia, slow processing speed & low working memory, it was a disaster.  I do only the narration days with him to try to build the processing speed and working memory, and we use IEW for composition.  My oldest is currently in WWS2. It is a stretch for him. We took two academic years to do WWS1, and WWS2 may take the same. He has the vocabulary to read on level, but his ability to dig out relevant material, sort it, and put it into his own words lags. WWS is very meaty material, and we took some time off mid WWS1 to do some IEW-style writing to build confidence and basic abilities before diving back into WWS.

 

We are currently crammed into a TINY place (4 kids in one bedroom in temporary housing kind of tiny!) and I've kept  my FLL and WWE & WWS books out for school time. I really value them, and have purchased them in e format for my younger kids because they are top priority books for me.

[Hunter]

Sahamamama and others, thank you!

 

I reread the PDF with the new WWE recommendations and reading column one and all your responses have really helped.

 

I think I get the big picture. I have never listened to any TWTM audio, but I am going to now.

 

I just really want to see the big picture as recommended. And then be forewarned about where the recommended course would be likely to trip me up IRL.

[Hunter]

Prariemama is there any chance of ALL?

[prairiewindmomma]

I *think* at some point it had just gotten bumped down in her priority list of things to do, but I get the sense that it has been shelved indefinitely. I find the whole bit sad, as my understanding was that ALL v.1 had been close to being finished, there were just some formatting and printing issues.  I would TOTALLY buy it in pdf format if the issue is just that it's too darn big to put into paper volumes.  Seriously, VIE and R&S have not been as good.  We use VIE for grammar only, and the cost (even when purchased used) is ridiculous. R&S is too tiny in print and too non-secular.  The other programs we've looked at have been too light.

[Hunter]

I *think* at some point it had just gotten bumped down in her priority list of things to do, but I get the sense that it has been shelved indefinitely. I find the whole bit sad, as my understanding was that ALL v.1 had been close to being finished, there were just some formatting and printing issues. I would TOTALLY buy it in pdf format if the issue is just that it's too darn big to put into paper volumes. Seriously, VIE and R&S have not been as good. We use VIE for grammar only, and the cost (even when purchased used) is ridiculous. R&S is too tiny in print and too non-secular. The other programs we've looked at have been too light.

I don't see anything that replaces ALL, either, especially in eBook.

[ScoutTN]

I just found out my library has almost all the TWTM books in Overdrive ebooks. I'd really like to take advantage of this resource.

 

I've never really looked at these books until about a week ago. I saw a big bulky workbook or two at the bookstore, but was immediately overwhelmed by the size.

 

I'm realizing the lessons are not that long or involved even though the books are so big.

 

As I looked at the samples and then the actual eBooks, they seem to be clicking with me.

 

I'm reading level 3 right now.

Yes, the books have plenty of white space and a lot of the bulk is the script. If you are comfortable teaching the content, the lesson can be much condensed and flow much quicker than it looks at first glance.

[ScoutTN]

I think listening to SWB's teaching writing lectures gives a great overview of what WWE and WWS are intended to do.

[Sahamamama]

What would be the plan that uses as few non TWTM resources as possible?

 

ALL never got published, with the comments that there are good things already published. None of those suggested things come in eBook right?

 

Would this be crazy?

 

Grades 1-2 FLL 1 and WWE 1

Grade 3 FLL 2 and WWE 2

Grade 4 FLL 3 and WWE 3

Grade 5 FLL 4 and WWE 4 and TWTM 5 outlining

Grade 6 WWS 1 and Daily Grammar Parts of speech ch. 1-7

Grade 7 WWS 2 and Daily Grammar Parts of a Sentence ch. 8-30

Grade 8 WWS 3 and Daily Grammar Mechanics ch. 31-43

 

Hunter, I think this looks good. If the student is a strong 3rd grader, WWE 2 might be a little boring, but then you could always add other things, such as "Write a letter to a family member" or "Make a shopping list" or "Write a one-page report on a History topic." At a certain point with WWE, I think it's a good idea to incorporate a few "outside" assignments, just to add variety and motivation. Also, it's good to see how the student is able to apply the principles to different types of assignments.

 

FLL 1 and FLL 2 are super easy for a strong 2nd or 3rd grader, so you might want to be on Level 2 by 2nd and the first half of Level 3 by 3rd, but a lot depends on the student. Then again, I think it's possible to just start with formal grammar in 3rd grade, with Level 3 at a slow pace. So formal grammar in 1st & 2nd grades is optional.

 

I ordered Maxwell's School Composition at your recommendation (I think?), and I really like it! I think we might do some of those lessons in 5th (along with the first unit of WWS 1) and some in 6th (along with more WWS 1), so you might want to weave those in, too. Thanks for your rainbow course, I've printed it out and have learned a lot from studying it. I hope and pray you put the link to it back in your signature. ;)

 

 

[Hunter]

Yes, as I looked at the first column of the new recommendations, and read more samples, I saw that the levels are best matched up to the same grade.

 

People do so much tweaking and supplementing, I was lost.

 

The first column makes sense to me, as the default. I just couldn't figure out what the default was.

[Hunter]

Should I put it back? I sometimes make streams of short posts on my phone, and people were annoyed with a signature at the end of each post. Maybe I'll put it back, next time I lug my Chromebook to a hotspot.

[Sahamamama]

Should I put it back? I sometimes make streams of short posts on my phone, and people were annoyed with a signature at the end of each post. Maybe I'll put it back, next time I lug my Chromebook to a hotspot.

 

I vote "not annoyed." But you do what you think is best. It's just that, if the link isn't in your signature, someone is going to miss out on a good thing. :thumbup1: