Music practice musings...

[IsabelC]

I have started keeping a Practice Log for Ms. just-turned-7's violin practice, because she doesn't seem to be getting through everything often enough in the week. I have counted up everything she is working on and found that she has the following current assignments:

Grade book exercises (5)

Extension exercises (only a page, but tiny print and full of repeats)
Personalized exercises set by the teacher (vibrato, son filé, etc)

Grade book scales and arpeggio sequences (to be practiced with three different bowing patterns)

Grade 2 pieces being learned (3)
Grade 2 pieces being 'polished' (5, although we will drop one of those after her performance in a couple weeks)
Grade 3 pieces being learned (2)

She currently practices violin for about an hour per day most days (we practice every day, but cut it a bit short if she is super tired or whatever), and I don't want to increase this until she is older (at this point she can't concentrate for any more than an hour, sometimes less, so if we increased her practice she would have to do it twice a day, and she already does piano practice, music theory and listening to her CDs at separate times of the day). I hear/read a lot of parents saying that their kids only practice 10 or 20 minutes a day, or maybe that they do 45 minutes but not every day of the week. So I wonder why dd is working at it every day of the year and still not always managing to get through everything. I will admit that she doesn't do a solid intense hour like a teenage student would. We do chat and laugh a bit, talk about the music, occasionally play games - but surely most kids do at that age? I am feeling that she just has too much stuff to do right now. I could ask the teacher to slow her down a bit, but the thing is he isn't actually pressuring her - it's dd herself who keeps asking to learn new pieces. 

 

How much work do mid beginner level students usually get assigned? (Dd has been playing for 1.5 years.)
And how much practice should that take? I don't think dd is practicing inefficiently (apart from a tiny bit of fun as mentioned above) - I am pretty well-versed in practice techniques and she cooperates well.

[Tawlas]

My kids are the kids practicing 10-20 minutes a day. Mind you, they only just started last September too, so take this with a grain of salt. I've been completely hands off in this area - I teach them so much, I'm happy to let someone else take the reins. I provide the time, they do what they will with it. I admit, I have mixed feelings about this and I know they would improve a lot more if I supervised practice, but frankly, I just don't care enough about their progress. My kids enjoy piano, they're making slow but steady progress. We don't do grades, examinations, they don't do theory (yet, I'm assuming), and they practice what they want each week (except for a few weeks leading up to a recital). I'm content with that.

 

I think you get out what you put in and if you want to practice 10-20 minuts a day, you're not going to have a just-turned-seven-year old playing at the level your daughter is (possibly?) playing at. That's a decision you'll need to make as a family :)

[Grover]

Mr 8 plays 2 instruments @ grade 3 level (exam on Tuesday!!) + music theory.  He does 20 min on each instrument daily, 10 min extra on scales on odd days and 15 min music theory on even weekdays.  Sometimes that stretches to 30 minutes if he's enjoying it. 

 

I can't imagine him spending much more time than that for a long time. 

 

*he often fiddles with the piano at other times, for fun*

[LMD]

Do you have to do each thing every day? That is a lot of time for a 7 year old. I mean, if she's enjoying it then great, but I wouldn't be pushing that much everyday (my kids start violin at age 4 and do practice most days, just so you don't think I'm a slacker! ;) but even my 10year old would only just do about an hour, if you include everything).

 

For instance, the 5 grade book exercises, can she just choose 2-3 each day? Also, learning 5 pieces at once seems a lot to me... Our teachers focus on one at a time and polish (indefinitely! Lol) old pieces.

[Donna]

How much a child gets assigned will depend entirely on the teacher and the level of the student. Some teachers teach from pieces only, giving the child "mini-exercises" to learn the techniques needed for the piece, while others like to focus on etudes, scales/arpeggios, and exercises.

 

I think pushing for the next piece is typical for many children learning an instrument…the next piece is always more fun than the one currently being learned. My dd just interviewed one of her favorite professional fiddlers (adult) who called the desire for the next piece "a sickness." 

 

My dd by the same level was practicing a lot each day and we split practice up…technique/etudes/scales/arpeggios at one time and pieces (review and new) at another so her focus was good for both. 45 min to an hour for each practice was not unusual. 

[TriciaT]

My daughter is also in violin (Suzuki method though). She pratices for half an hour everyday. I don't think I would want her to do more than that just yet. But, she is also not working on so many new pieces at once. She loves learning new songs, but he will not teach her one until she has mastered her current piece.

Learning new pieces is always more fun than perfecting ones you have been playing for a while. Repetition is boring, but it is part of music practice! Maybe you should have a chat with her teacher and ask what kind of practice time he is expecting. You could explain that she is having trouble getting through that many things in an hour of practice. He may have some suggestions.

[rainbird2]

Kudos to your daughter for her hard work!  It sounds like her teacher is assigning her a lot because she is advancing well and can handle it.  Does she seem more advanced in one instrument over the other (violin vs. piano)?  If she likes one more than the other, one will have to take a back seat and get practiced less. 

 

It sounds like she needs two practice sessions.  45 minutes in the a.m. for the primary instrument, 45 minutes in the evening for the primary instrument and secondary instrument.  And I would divide that up into 30 minutes primary, 15 secondary. 

 

My dd is 7 and is doing two practices a day, usually 45 - 1 in the morning and 45 minutes in the evening.  She has so much to cover, it isn't hard for her at all.  My other 2 children (4.5 and 9) are both beginners on their instruments and practice 10 - 20 minutes a day.  Once you move up to the intermediate stage, the amount of practice dramatically increases.  Your dd is progressing very quickly (1.5 years to get to book 3 Suzuki) and your teacher is asking more of her.  If she isn't complaining, then try for the two practice sessions so she can get everything in.

 

Good luck to you all!!

 

Edited to add: I am making the assumption that violin will be her primary instrument.  If that is not the case, then, yes, I would talk with the teacher and let him know that she is more invested in piano at this time.  Maybe ask him to slow her down a bit so she can still play her pieces well, but not have to carry such a heavy load? 

[rainbird2]

Another thing...the skills your dd is learning now will really prepare her for the difficult pieces in Book 4.  It sounds like her teacher is trying to prepare her for the hard work that is to come.  If she is good about practicing the scales, etudes, etc., she will have an easy time and will really enjoy those pieces!    :)

 

 

[Bluegoat]

I have started keeping a Practice Log for Ms. just-turned-7's violin practice, because she doesn't seem to be getting through everything often enough in the week. I have counted up everything she is working on and found that she has the following current assignments:

Grade book exercises (5)

Extension exercises (only a page, but tiny print and full of repeats)

Personalized exercises set by the teacher (vibrato, son filé, etc)

Grade book scales and arpeggio sequences (to be practiced with three different bowing patterns)

Grade 2 pieces being learned (3)

Grade 2 pieces being 'polished' (5, although we will drop one of those after her performance in a couple weeks)

Grade 3 pieces being learned (2)

She currently practices violin for about an hour per day most days (we practice every day, but cut it a bit short if she is super tired or whatever), and I don't want to increase this until she is older (at this point she can't concentrate for any more than an hour, sometimes less, so if we increased her practice she would have to do it twice a day, and she already does piano practice, music theory and listening to her CDs at separate times of the day). I hear/read a lot of parents saying that their kids only practice 10 or 20 minutes a day, or maybe that they do 45 minutes but not every day of the week. So I wonder why dd is working at it every day of the year and still not always managing to get through everything. I will admit that she doesn't do a solid intense hour like a teenage student would. We do chat and laugh a bit, talk about the music, occasionally play games - but surely most kids do at that age? I am feeling that she just has too much stuff to do right now. I could ask the teacher to slow her down a bit, but the thing is he isn't actually pressuring her - it's dd herself who keeps asking to learn new pieces. 

 

How much work do mid beginner level students usually get assigned? (Dd has been playing for 1.5 years.)

And how much practice should that take? I don't think dd is practicing inefficiently (apart from a tiny bit of fun as mentioned above) - I am pretty well-versed in practice techniques and she cooperates well.

 

I have to say that sounds like a lot to me, for most kids that age.

 

My dd, who is ten, is assigned to practice piano for 20 min a day, in two ten min. slots. She generally does her book piano exercises first and then works on her pieces. Her theory is probably an extra 20-30 min, but only once a week.  She does more close to a recital or performance, as she seems to require it.  She does violin too but that is not a lot of time at this point.

 

She could probably do more, but her teacher seems to think it is better to err on the side of doing less, so that she has some time and motivation to just play for pleasure.

 

At this point, she's been playing for five years, though the first three were in a different sort of program, from about age 5 or six to 8.  It tended to emphasize fairly short, but daily, practice and homework, with the goal of creating a good habit, especially in the first two years.

 

 I would tend to agree it isn't ideal to increase the time, but I can see why she might like to learn new things regularly.  What strikes me is that she is fairly young for her level, and maybe her abilities aren't all developed to the same degree - perhaps shorter pieces than normal would work so that she could more often have something "new".  Another option might be to only do some things on some days.  Her progress might be slower, but she would have some variety?

 

My personal view is that it isn't worthwhile to get too stuck on grade levels.  With younger kids, I think its important to look at their other abilities and give what they need to improve at that time.

[...................]

The teacher will keep on going until it seems your dd can't keep up, then she will slow down or scale back.  My dd's teacher will keep adding and adding, then my dd began to be overwhelmed and I communicated with her, and now she is scaling back.  This week my dd only has:

 

(piano)

 

Technic- 1 new about 10 x per day plus review each old one

Theory- two pages

Hanon (kind of like scales or finger exercises) - new one 10 x each minimum plus review old ones 1 x each

Air (new song)

Review 3 old songs 1x each

 

This only takes about 45 minutes.  I think she should have more, at this point, but we can't complain that she has too much and then complain that she has too little! LOL.  

 

So, at this point if you think your dd has had about enough, you should communicate with your teacher.  But, if your dd is doing well, even though she is challenged and she seems to still enjoy and like violin even if it is hard...then you can continue with the pace your teacher is setting.

 

 

[IsabelC]

Thanks for the information and suggestions :)
@Grover - hope the exam goes well!

 

To clarify a few things:
We don't do Suzuki  (although I guess we are a little Suzuki-influenced in that she enjoys learning by ear so we do a lot of listening to her pieces, and I am very involved with the practice - that is mainly because when I tried leaving it to her, she just noodled around doing things like playing her piano pieces on the violin and vice versa lol); the grade levels I mentioned are AMEB (Australian Music Examinations Board). 

 

We don't even try to practice everything every day. We usually alternate between scales/arps one day and exercises the next. Then we'll work on some of her challenging pieces, then some of the ones that are being polished, and finish off with a few minutes of her choice (sometimes she will ask to work more on a new piece or do some improv, but often she will pick something easy that she 'finished' some time ago). We should be practicing sight-reading but I haven't quite got that worked into the routine yet.

 

Yes, violin is her main instrument. The piano she usually only practices for around 15 minutes per day on stuff I assign,  plus whatever extra time she wants to spend on improvisation or whatever. She only does her method book plus a few scales (we haven't started Hanon yet - probably won't until about January).

 

My concern isn't so much about how much dd is doing - most days she enjoys it and doesn't need to be pushed (and it's not unusual for her to want to do more). It's more about what the teacher is expecting. He says she is talented, has potential, etc, but I wonder whether he only thinks that because he assumes she is only doing a fraction of the work she actually is. Should I ask him for specific weekly goals, and then I can let him know whether they are achievable for dd in the time we have available for practicing?

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for the information and suggestions :)

@Grover - hope the exam goes well!

 

To clarify a few things:

We don't do Suzuki  (although I guess we are a little Suzuki-influenced in that she enjoys learning by ear so we do a lot of listening to her pieces, and I am very involved with the practice - that is mainly because when I tried leaving it to her, she just noodled around doing things like playing her piano pieces on the violin and vice versa lol); the grade levels I mentioned are AMEB (Australian Music Examinations Board). 

 

We don't even try to practice everything every day. We usually alternate between scales/arps one day and exercises the next. Then we'll work on some of her challenging pieces, then some of the ones that are being polished, and finish off with a few minutes of her choice (sometimes she will ask to work more on a new piece or do some improv, but often she will pick something easy that she 'finished' some time ago). We should be practicing sight-reading but I haven't quite got that worked into the routine yet.

 

Yes, violin is her main instrument. The piano she usually only practices for around 15 minutes per day on stuff I assign,  plus whatever extra time she wants to spend on improvisation or whatever. She only does her method book plus a few scales (we haven't started Hanon yet - probably won't until about January).

 

My concern isn't so much about how much dd is doing - most days she enjoys it and doesn't need to be pushed (and it's not unusual for her to want to do more). It's more about what the teacher is expecting. He says she is talented, has potential, etc, but I wonder whether he only thinks that because he assumes she is only doing a fraction of the work she actually is. Should I ask him for specific weekly goals, and then I can let him know whether they are achievable for dd in the time we have available for practicing?

 

I'm a violin instructor... and not knowing your DDs instructor, there are any number of possibilities here... He could be feeding the "new song" thrill a bit too much.  He could be appropriately challenging what he considers to be her level of ability.  He could be enjoying your daughter's enthusiasm so very much that he gets carried away in the material he wants to cover.  I'd say it's time for a conversation.  :) 

 

I do think it's a good idea to ask for weekly goals.  But, before that, you might consider what your daughter's energy commitment can be each day to this instrument.  Even passions can become burdens!  Helping the young student maintain energy and drive means indulging the passion, and providing boundaries for it, when necessary.  As mom, you're the best person to evaluate that... because ultimately, you don't want the instructor driving this train.  You want your daughter's abilities, enjoyment, and well being doing that. 

 

:)

[Arcadia]

He says she is talented, has potential, etc, but I wonder whether he only thinks that because he assumes she is only doing a fraction of the work she actually is. Should I ask him for specific weekly goals, and then I can let him know whether they are achievable for dd in the time we have available for practicing?

DS10 is musically talented but not gifted. He has an intuition for any musical instrument. All the music teachers that have interacted with him says he is talented based on how easily he picks up skills and how "fast" he improves during lessons. They didn't judge his talent based on homework. DS9 is also musically talented in his own way but he has to practice twice as hard to get the same improvement in technique as DS10.

 

DS10 who have never learned the flute can pick up DS9's flute and just play a simple tune pitch perfect. He just figure out fingering and overblowing himself. Talent is a loaded word. I would say my kids are musically inclined instead of talented but I don't care what words my kids teachers/instructors use.

 

My kids cello teacher gives weekly goals. She gives it as minimum goals for skillset and extras if they have time. She gives extras because we are homeschooling so she knows my kids have more flextime compared to B&M schoolers.

 

My primary instrument is piano anyway.