High school diplomas -- what's your take?

[mindygz]

My oldest is in 7th grade this year and I'm trying to gather information to work on her high school plan with her over the next year. We've been enrolled through a public school partnership but it is very independent. Through this program she could earn a HS diploma but (if I'm understanding correctly) it would only have pass/fail grades. There may be another way to get letter grades. I'm trying to get a feel for how useful/necessary it is to have a diploma and what other homeschoolers do, and what all the options are. She's interested in doing some dual enrollment at the high school. She's very talented artistically and wants to go into animation and I'm hoping we can have her do internships in high school. I'd hate to bother with jumping through diploma hoops if her time can be better spent doing other things.

 

Anyway, I would love experiences and knowledge from the HiveMind on this topic. thank you!

[Lori D.]

My oldest is in 7th grade this year…  We've been enrolled through a public school partnership but it is very independent. Through this program she could earn a HS diploma but (if I'm understanding correctly) it would only have pass/fail grades. There may be another way to get letter grades. I'm trying to get a feel for how useful/necessary it is to have a diploma and what other homeschoolers do, and what all the options are. She's interested in doing some dual enrollment at the high school. She's very talented artistically and wants to go into animation and I'm hoping we can have her do internships in high school. 

 

Bear in mind, I am NOT an expert. I am only commenting, based on the few details you've provided. The most important thing to do is to speak directly to the community college about their dual enrollment program and find out the details of how that works for you as a homeschooler, and what, if any, differences there are with the courses offered, the rigor of the classes, etc. if taken through the public high school dual enrollment program.

 

I would also speak directly with the public high school program, and nail down all of the specific details, before making a decision.

 

That said, here's my response to your post :) :

 

1. Pass/Fail

Many colleges do not accept transcripts with only pass/fail grades; they expect to see grades and an overall GPA. So you can drastically limit future college options with pass/fail only. Those colleges/universities that do accept pass/fail only transcripts, will have no grades/GPA on which to base any potential merit scholarship awards. So you will further be limited in possible financial aid.

 

While a university degree may not end up being needed… Years down the line, it might! So be very, very careful about closing that future door before your student even starts high school, or make helpful-in-the-short-term decisions that may make it very difficult for your student to return at a future time to college in the long term...

 

re: the public school partnership

JMO, without knowing many details: unless the public school partnership is a charter (in which case, you are not homeschooling, but are under public school administration), then whatever the public school partner does/does not do is fairly irrelevant -- they can award or not award whatever they wish, but (again, unless this is a legal charter), YOU are school authority and administrator as the legal homeschooler, and YOU would award grades, create a transcript, and award the diploma upon your student's completion of your homeschool required credits for graduation. And yes, BOTH transcripts (yours and the public school partner) would be sent to colleges for admission.

 

2. Diploma

Please note: homeschooling is NOT a "no-diploma" route; reprinting from my recent post in the thread "I need a guidance counselor":

 

"The only time homeschooling results in "no diploma" is if the student drops out or fails to complete the course of credits required by the parent for high school graduation. This is NOT a matter of semantics, but a legal reality in the U.S., with parent-awarded homeschool diplomas recognized and accepted by the U.S. military, and all universities***. 

*** = if you are in a country other than the U.S., then the situation may be different

*** = in the U.S. a small number of colleges or universities (esp. NY schools) require some additional hoop-jumping

 

The ramifications of a parent-awarded homeschool diploma when it comes time to apply to college are no different than those of students awarded a public school diploma. Just like public high school students -- your student will need to take a few national standardized tests along the way. About 30 universities require homeschoolers to "back" the homeschool transcript with two SATII test scores. Other test scores are useful for college admission and applying for scholarships (ACT, SAT, AP), while AP and dual enrollment not only "confirm" homeschool grades, but also show advanced level of work and can aid in admission to selective, competitive, or top tier colleges for ALL high school students, regardless of whether homeschooled or public-schooled.

 

There are a few (rare) instances which may require an "accredited diploma" (which means "a diploma awarded by an accredited organization"). If an accredited diploma is needed, you pay the fee to have an accredited "umbrella school" or overseeing organization (such as American School, Keystone, Kolbe, etc.), track credits each year while you use curricula from the approved list, and at the end of completing the required credits, the accrediting organization awards the diploma."

 

YES, as a homeschooler YOU award the diploma, and YES, it is important to do so for future college admissions, employment, etc. To not award a diploma is to declare the student a drop-out, and that has very serious future ramifications -- not to mention, it is absolutely untrue if the student completes the coursework required for your homeschool graduation.

 

If there is even a remote chance that an Associate's or Bachelor's degree will be needed in the future to help DD land a job, then required coursework for a diploma is NOT going to be wasted, but rather have been needed for future college admission. Without a diploma, the student would have to study for and pay for a GED or other high school equivalency option, as community colleges and universities require either a high school diploma or a GED (or similar) for admission once the student is past high school age. A GED is a potential future hoop you can very easily help your student avoid simply by completing a basic high school set of required courses and awarding a diploma. (Incidentally, the GED is also a much trickier hoop to jump now: the GED was completely revised as on Jan. 2016, and is not only more difficult to pass, but it is less universally accepted.)

 

Next, I would look up what the freshman admission requirements are at several 4-year universities that have animation degrees, and see what they require, and make sure to complete those credits during high school, while providing lots of time/energy for developing the animation skills through dual enrollment, and having time for internships.

 

For example a typical BARE minimum for admission, for Fine Arts program

4 credits = English

3-4 credits = Math (at least up through Alg. 2, and may need up through Pre-Calc.)

2-3 credits = Science (with labs)

2-3 credits = Social Sciences

2-3 credits = Foreign Language

1 credit = Fine Arts (that will easily be checked off by the Animation dual enrollment)

4-8 credits = Electives (again, easily checked off by the Animation dual enrollment)

Total = 20-24 credits

 

Plan on a minimum of 20 credits. That comes out to just 5 courses per year of high school, which would leave lots of time for internships -- which can also be done over the summers -- and only 3-4 credits per year having to be something other than Animation, which leaves room for at 1-2 Animation dual enrollment courses per SEMESTER.

 

3. Dual Enrollment

Unless it is the only way to get access to free dual enrollment (or any dual dual enrollment), I would suggest bypassing the public high school's dual enrollment and work directly with the community college. High school dual enrollment sometimes are only high school level courses, and not college credit-worthy, and if so, would not transfer as college credit to other colleges. Also, the course offerings can be much more limited than what would be available by directly applying to the community college as a dual enrolled homeschool student. Some schools have a minimum age of 16 for dual enrollment, but some go as low as 14. Typically dual enrollment through a high school program is only for 11th and 12th grade students, while dual enrollment as a homeschooler at a community college that allows it as early as age 14 provides your student with earlier access to the classes she wants to accomplish.

 

Many high school dual enrollment programs limit students to just 1-2 dual enrollment courses per semester. In contrast, homeschool students can take more, and thus work towards completing an Associate's degree by the time they complete high school through dual enrolling, which speeds a student who knows what they want to do on into their chosen profession. It can also potentially reduce time/money required  at a 4-year school to earn a Bachelor's, through credit transfer.

 

4. Internships

Does the school have an established internship program? Even as a homeschooler you may be eligible to have access to this program, and may not need to be a part of the school in order to do so. Also, are the internships only open to seniors? That is frequently the case. In so, you would again be better served to homeschool without the high school's involvement, as you would be able to help your student line up internships directly with local animation companies, especially if your student is taking dual enrollment through the local community college -- which is access to those professors for networking and letters of recommendation.

 

I'd hate to bother with jumping through diploma hoops if her time can be better spent doing other things.

 

Only based on the details provided in your post, I personally would not bother with the hoop of the high school program, which appears to provide a lame transcript, and likely is unneeded if you can just dual enroll directly with the community college.

 

JMO, but I would think my time would be better spent in priorities such as:

 

1. be sure to have DD complete required coursework and award the high school diploma when done to keep open as many future options or needs (jobs, college admissions, credit transfer for Bachelor degree, etc.)

2. as soon as allowed, have DD admitted directly to the community college for dual enrollment to be taking Animation coursework as soon as possible

3. have DD work towards earning an AAS in Animation simultaneous with working on her high school diploma courses

4. directly be lining up internships for DD throughout ALL years of high school, at graphic design firms, Animation companies, and other related opportunities

 

 

Just my take on it! :) BEST of luck as you research your options. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

PS -- I also recommend posting on the high school board to get more "eyeballs", and thus more potential responses. Many of the high school parents don't tend to frequent this board. :)

[8filltheheart]

Lori's post is excellent. I want to emphasize that my kids have a high school diploma; they just don't have a state issued diploma. Also, many universities will change pass/fail grades to Cs. Those same schools will take a parent issued grade and count it as whatever grade the parent issued. My homemade transcripts have never been a problem.

[mindygz]

Thanks so much for your response, Lori. That was really helpful. I'm going to reread it a few times and take notes.  I will also post on the High School board. Thank you, also, 8FillTheHeart. I am glad to know about homeschool diplomas being an option. I am going to look into that further. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with the others, a homeschool issued diploma with grades seems to me to be a lot more valuable and useful to your child further down the line than a pass/fail diploma that probably won't be accepted by practically anyone.  Lots of good advice upthread.  Hopefully the High School Board will also give you some solid answers.

[Ellie]

My oldest is in 7th grade this year and I'm trying to gather information to work on her high school plan with her over the next year. We've been enrolled through a public school partnership but it is very independent. Through this program she could earn a HS diploma but (if I'm understanding correctly) it would only have pass/fail grades. There may be another way to get letter grades. I'm trying to get a feel for how useful/necessary it is to have a diploma and what other homeschoolers do, and what all the options are. She's interested in doing some dual enrollment at the high school. She's very talented artistically and wants to go into animation and I'm hoping we can have her do internships in high school. I'd hate to bother with jumping through diploma hoops if her time can be better spent doing other things.

 

Anyway, I would love experiences and knowledge from the HiveMind on this topic. thank you!

 

So, your dd is enrolled in a home-based charter school? "Public school partnership" is a little fuzzy, lol.

 

What homeschoolers do is grant diplomas to their children when they think it is appropriate, usually based on the courses the dc have completed at home (following public school requirements, or what their dc might need to get into college, or a good score on SAT/ACT). Some people use community college classes, as well. Most states don't have requirements for homeschoolers to be graduated, so we can do whatever we want.

 

Is there any reason that you cannot teach your daughter at home as a homeschooler, instead of as part of a public school program?

[mindygz]

Ellie, that is probably a better way to phrase it. Thanks! 😊 We are enrolled as students through the district's eSchool but get to do our own thing, only requirement is to submit a weekly report to update what we are doing in our courses.

 

We can keep doing what we are doing. She can indicate diploma seeking or not diploma seeking, but I guess we could still award a homeschool diploma and not jump through their hoops. Honestly I don't know that I knew anything about homeschool diplomas, so that's a new consideration for me. We get funding for materials and courses through the program so it has been a real blessing.

[MerryAtHope]

My oldest is in 7th grade this year and I'm trying to gather information to work on her high school plan with her over the next year. We've been enrolled through a public school partnership but it is very independent. Through this program she could earn a HS diploma but (if I'm understanding correctly) it would only have pass/fail grades. There may be another way to get letter grades. I'm trying to get a feel for how useful/necessary it is to have a diploma and what other homeschoolers do, and what all the options are. She's interested in doing some dual enrollment at the high school. She's very talented artistically and wants to go into animation and I'm hoping we can have her do internships in high school. I'd hate to bother with jumping through diploma hoops if her time can be better spent doing other things.

 

Anyway, I would love experiences and knowledge from the HiveMind on this topic. thank you!

 

I would never enroll in a program that only gave out pass/fail grades. Your child deserves letter grades and a GPA (and colleges will want this info).

 

The diploma is rarely used (I've heard of people having to show their high school diploma in order to administer certain types of standardized tests for their kids, but that's about it. When's the last time you got your diploma out?). What your child will need is a transcript. This will show classes taken, and the credits and grades earned for those classes. Lori D. did a great job outlining it. When your child applies to college--they will want to see her transcript. This is a document that you, her homeschool administrator and teacher, can put together. There's tons of info online about doing this (Lee Binz has a free webinar for example, and you can find out lots by asking on the high school board, google, talking with other homeschoolers, etc...) You don't need to use an outside organization, though you certainly can.

 

My oldest is graduating from our homeschool this year. I ordered a beautiful diploma from homeschooldiploma.com--love it! But I spent much more time on his transcript, sending it to schools he applied to and so forth. It's not hard (and I even find it kind of exciting to look at what we have done together). Now is a good time to begin thinking about and learning about this though.