Right/Left confusion and Vision Therapy - how long to see improvement

[summerreading]

My son is really struggling with right/left confusion in vision therapy. He keeps getting bumped down a level with slap tap - not sure if it's called the same thing everywhere. We are 30+ weeks into VT.  So can you please tell me how long your dc was in VT and when the right/left issues really seemed to click if they were an issue? I know this has to be a YMMV sort of thing.

 

I'm frustrated, I'm sure he is too, so we are taking next steps to get full evals done and see a reading tutor who tutors the VT doctor's child with convergence issues using and O-G reading method. WE got to a review section of the O-G system we are using at home and a lot of reversals still, short e confusion. Some days he is just fine, others more of a mess...

[wapiti]

Thinking out loud, have you considered an OT eval (e.g., take a break from VT for some OT) just for this left/right problem?  It doesn't sound like the VT's activity for this is helping.

 

For some reason I also find myself thinking about geodob's mirror writing activity...

[summerreading]

Thinking out loud, have you considered an OT eval (e.g., take a break from VT for some OT) just for this left/right problem?  It doesn't sound like the VT's activity for this is helping.

 

For some reason I also find myself thinking about geodob's mirror writing activity...

 

Do you mean additional things we could do at home? Would an NP eval tell me if he needed OT or include this in the eval?

[wapiti]

No, an NP eval would not include an OT eval.  Some NPs might refer to OT, some might not.

[PeterPan]

Just being really blunt, but if you've done 30 weeks of therapy and haven't seen results, it's time to pause the therapy and get an OT eval.

 

This is for the 8 yo?  Have you tried the Barton pretest with him?  Doesn't take much time, is free, and might turn up something.  http://bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen Reversals are common, common, common in dyslexia, and having weirdo visual processing stuff that doesn't correct even with lots of VT is another big flag.  Reading tutors are stinking expensive.  Barton has things built in for reversals, so you might find you wouldn't need the tutor.  The OT can work on handwriting as well.

 

If your state has any benefits for students with disabilities, I'd get whatever documentation you need (IEP, whatever) for that BEFORE you begin any dyslexia tutoring.  Just saying.

 

[summerreading]

Just being really blunt, but if you've done 30 weeks of therapy and haven't seen results, it's time to pause the therapy and get an OT eval.

 

This is for the 8 yo?  Have you tried the Barton pretest with him?  Doesn't take much time, is free, and might turn up something.  http://bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen Reversals are common, common, common in dyslexia, and having weirdo visual processing stuff that doesn't correct even with lots of VT is another big flag.  Reading tutors are stinking expensive.  Barton has things built in for reversals, so you might find you wouldn't need the tutor.  The OT can work on handwriting as well.

 

If your state has any benefits for students with disabilities, I'd get whatever documentation you need (IEP, whatever) for that BEFORE you begin any dyslexia tutoring.  Just saying.

 

Yes, for the 8 year old. I am confused. What would OT do for "right/left confusion" if this only translates into reversals and when reading? Wouldn't we end up doing exercises just like we are doing in VT? I wouldn't pause VT because he does have convergence issues plus other things. There has been visual progress with VT, double vision is corrected, etc.  I've been just worried that if I did take him in before that with visual diagnoses, he would automatically get a dyslexia label if they were not corrected.

 

I did think he was doing well with Recipe for Reading. He now knows the letter sounds, but has the classic flags for dyslexia: interchanges or skips on/in a/the at and all the little words, doesn't recognize the word he figured out the page before, saw/was. He sees the first letter and guesses the rest of the word. This makes my husband, despite being dyslexic himself, say he needs a tutor with a formal setting b/c he isn't trying enough or too used to guessing, or he just needs more practice. So I have the VT doc saying it's right/left confusion and Dh saying it's lack of effort.

 

Ugh, wasn't thinking tutoring would be so expensive. I'll do the Barton screening this weekend, and I left a message to set up an NP eval.

Budget is an issue, so how much better is Barton than Recipe for Reading? I know Barton is recommended a lot here, they are a both OG.

[wapiti]

the geodob post that I had in mind as food for thought:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/540752-advise-for-dyslexia/?p=6161889

[displace]

Do you mean additional things we could do at home? Would an NP eval tell me if he needed OT or include this in the eval?

A developmental Ped or Ped usually refers to OT. A lot of dvlp optometrists promote the relatedness of VT and OT, and some of their work overlaps. Do you see any other symptoms that may be motor/muscle based? Difficulty with sports, development, coordination, clumsiness, writing? These can be OT issues too.

[displace]

Yes, for the 8 year old. I am confused. What would OT do for "right/left confusion" if this only translates into reversals and when reading? Wouldn't we end up doing exercises just like we are doing in VT? I wouldn't pause VT because he does have convergence issues plus other things. There has been visual progress with VT, double vision is corrected, etc. I've been just worried that if I did take him in before that with visual diagnoses, he would automatically get a dyslexia label if they were not corrected.

 

I did think he was doing well with Recipe for Reading. He now knows the letter sounds, but has the classic flags for dyslexia: interchanges or skips on/in a/the at and all the little words, doesn't recognize the word he figured out the page before, saw/was. He sees the first letter and guesses the rest of the word. This makes my husband, despite being dyslexic himself, say he needs a tutor with a formal setting b/c he isn't trying enough or too used to guessing, or he just needs more practice. So I have the VT doc saying it's right/left confusion and Dh saying it's lack of effort.

 

Ugh, wasn't thinking tutoring would be so expensive. I'll do the Barton screening this weekend, and I left a message to set up an NP eval.

Budget is an issue, so how much better is Barton than Recipe for Reading? I know Barton is recommended a lot here, they are a both OG.

L/R issues can be addressed with any program. On DS desk I have prominent signs left and right. Left in green on left, right in red on right. I point them out when writing too. DS reversals have improved but still there sometimes but his L/R knowledge is I think good.

 

I use recipe for reading with training from IMSE. We do letter writing on plastic canvas, sand writing, etc. every time he writes in sand or writes a sight word he traces/underlines with his finger left to right. So probably 50-70 times a week.

 

I like recipe for reading. If you're seeing progress I'd keep with it if you can. Barton is a whole new system, usually requiring a start over I think. If you are using a tutor it would probably be more cost effective to take a training course yourself. IMSE trains in a lot of states, for primary training you would be covered until third grade level to tutor. It may help to seek further testing (audiology or something else?) if there's no progress. Recipe encourages one week per concept. DS understands the concept easily but he needs time to practice it, see it, use it all week long. We also spent weeks on b and d only. Not just 2 weeks but probably close to 5-6 I guess, with breaks too. And still there is some confusion.

 

As for your DH thinking there's not enough effort, or other thoughts, it maybe your child's dyslexia is different from your husbands? Guessing is typical and not from a lack of trying. Confusion in the student is inherent, not from an intentional desire to fail. Being scared to try, frustrated, upset, etc, are all signs of extreme hardship our students must overcome to be successful.

 

I think if VT is helping some things keep with it but maybe there are other things that are contributing too.

 

If training you in OG isn't an option financially, maybe consult with a tutor who uses recipe can coach you with some good ideas?

[Heathermomster]

If your child has developmental motor issues, VT may not be effective. OT's check developmental motor and can provide a list of exercises which may be done at home.

 

My son's letter reversals ceased when he learned cursive. The b/d reversals when reading were stubborn but stopped over time with OG tutoring.

[PeterPan]

Yes, for the 8 year old. I am confused. What would OT do for "right/left confusion" if this only translates into reversals and when reading? Wouldn't we end up doing exercises just like we are doing in VT? I wouldn't pause VT because he does have convergence issues plus other things. There has been visual progress with VT, double vision is corrected, etc.  I've been just worried that if I did take him in before that with visual diagnoses, he would automatically get a dyslexia label if they were not corrected.

 

I did think he was doing well with Recipe for Reading. He now knows the letter sounds, but has the classic flags for dyslexia: interchanges or skips on/in a/the at and all the little words, doesn't recognize the word he figured out the page before, saw/was. He sees the first letter and guesses the rest of the word. This makes my husband, despite being dyslexic himself, say he needs a tutor with a formal setting b/c he isn't trying enough or too used to guessing, or he just needs more practice. So I have the VT doc saying it's right/left confusion and Dh saying it's lack of effort.

 

Ugh, wasn't thinking tutoring would be so expensive. I'll do the Barton screening this weekend, and I left a message to set up an NP eval.

Budget is an issue, so how much better is Barton than Recipe for Reading? I know Barton is recommended a lot here, they are a both OG.

 

I hear you on the value of VT for convergence.  Research has shown VT effective for convergence, and my dd did VT for it a few years ago with amazing changes.  Totally with you there.  My ds, on the other hand, has been checked multiple times over the years by the same doc.  He has visual processing oddities (typical of dyslexics) but NOT convergence, focusing, tracking, etc. issues.

 

Currently dyslexia is reading disorder in the DSM, and it *should* be diagnosed as a phonological processing problem, NOT vision.  If you've corrected his convergence, tracking, etc. and are working on visual processing, then you should be fine to go get that psych eval, get the CTOPP run, and get the dyslexia diagnosed.  

 

Yes, your dh is correct that the more intensive work a quality OG/Wilson/Barton tutor could do would get more results than if you do Reading Reflex slowly and insecurely.  I got RR from the library and looked through it.  It's NOTHING like the level of detail you get with a program aimed at dyslexics.  Barton is fully scripted.  You could literally pick it up and use it.  Did I give you the pretest link already?  It would show you if he has enough phonemic awareness and working memory to go into Barton even.  If he doesn't, that has NOTHING to do with his vision and you need to hit the gas pedal and get things moving.

 

The research shows a dyslexic who begins to read at a later date goes through the SAME STAGES as beginning readers who are much younger.  In other words, the sooner you start making serious progress, working intensely with a program geared for dyslexics, the better.  He's plenty old enough, and 30 weeks of VT is plenty to have made tracks on that convergence, mercy.  How much homework are you doing?  Are you working every day for 15-20 minutes?  My dd's convergence, depth perception, etc. was done in 3 months.  We did another 2-3 months (I forget) for visual processing.  She hit walls at that point because of attention and we decided to move on.

 

Yes, he may have midline issues, etc. that are causing his directionality issues.  VT is not the only, nor necessarily the most effective, way to work on this.  No it would not be just the same things.  VT typically is paper-driven, with small amounts of kinesthetic.  An OT will bring in motor planning, fine motor, other things he might need.  Our SLP told us when we get OT (I'm working on it now for my ds), he should actually get a language boost from it, if you can imagine.  When dominance is not solid, the brain language centers haven't totally settled into their spots.  So OT can improve language, midline issues, etc. etc.  

 

I'm just saying 30 weeks (with no clear end in sight) is a really long time to be strung out and I'd consider an OT eval.  Believe no one.  We are CASH COWS to therapists.  Tip of the day?  If you're paying for the OT yourself, find someone who will do less frequent sessions with more homework.  

 

Expenses, hmm...  Around here OT and SLP (private, not through the hospital) are $110 an hour.  Through the hospital they're $350 an hour, if you can imagine.  That's INSANE.  Anyways, the highly recommended dyslexia tutor in our area is $65 an hour.  If you do 3-5 hours a week (intensity makes a difference), do the math.  You can buy levels of Barton for $250-300 new, get phone and email support from Susan Barton herself, and have fully scripted materials intended for dyslexics.  If you buy directly from her, she'll send you a link to the training videos online, so you don't even have to wait for your stuff to ship.   :)

 

It's so easy to get into a rut with our kids and not realize how behind they are.  In our state discrepancy between IQ and achievement is a valid part of the diagnosis.  My ds, at newly 6, per his IQ, should have been reading at a late 1st grade reading level.  In other words, if he did not have a disability, that's where he would have been reading.  So I don't know what's appropriate for your dc, but I know our psych basically lit a flame under me and said he doesn't like parents to teach their own kids.  As a homeschooler, I thought that was really NASTY, but then I realized WHY.  To do this you have to get honest about where he SHOULD be, how big the gap is, and how HARD it is.  It's not something that's going to happen naturally by waiting, and it's not going to be this pretty, interest-led, 20 minutes a day experience.  

 

I think it's very telling that your dh is asking you to get him a tutor.  That tutor I called at $65 an hour around here?  She had a vision for my kid.  She said she started with a total non-reader, similar IQ, and in one year went from zilch to 5th grade reading level.  You CAN do the same thing.  But that's an hour a day of intense tutoring, 5 days a week.  You can do it or you can pay someone to do it.  Do the math.  I can't afford that, so I'm doing the tutoring.  But I decided if I was going to contradict my psych's advice, I doggone better get in there, work hard, and get the results!!  But that blew me away, the big gap between what the *tutor* saw my child capable of and what I was seeing.  

 

If you want to get over the hump, get materials aimed for dyslexics and work at it with a tutor mindset, just like the person would you would have paid.  It's hard.  

 

You can get your evals through the ps and put the money you would have put toward a np eval into getting proper materials to teach him or hire that tutor.  If you pay $2K for a neuropsych eval (what it costs around here) and have no money left for Barton (or similar), you're worse off than if you went to the ps, got a baseline, and then did Barton.  The ps will do that OT eval, btw. 

 

[displace]

I wanted to add that recipe for reading is a great spine resource. It is much better used if someone knows how to do it teaching a multi sensory program. As in, it's not multi sensory by itself but can be used as a spine for order of teaching reading and spelling.

[summerreading]

 

You can get your evals through the ps and put the money you would have put toward a np eval into getting proper materials to teach him or hire that tutor.  If you pay $2K for a neuropsych eval (what it costs around here) and have no money left for Barton (or similar), you're worse off than if you went to the ps, got a baseline, and then did Barton.  The ps will do that OT eval, btw. 

 

I left a message with the special ed department this morning, this makes total sense.

 

For VT, he has several diagnoses and she said with this perceptual issues, it would take 36 weeks at minimum. and that he is working on both eyes working together at this stage and this is when I would see most improvement in reading.

 

Idk, this year has been rough. We feel isolated and I feel burned out just trying to get the basics done with both my older ones. The PS is supposed to be excellent for kids with any difficulties. Would I be able to outsource remediation to them?

[summerreading]

I wanted to add that recipe for reading is a great spine resource. It is much better used if someone knows how to do to teach a multi sensory program.

 

I should probably switch then. I'll see what happens with testing. I could make the sales pitch to dh that it's for adults too. It still takes him an hour to write a paragraph.

[summerreading]

L/R issues can be addressed with any program. On DS desk I have prominent signs left and right. Left in green on left, right in red on right. I point them out when writing too. DS reversals have improved but still there sometimes but his L/R knowledge is I think good.

 

I use recipe for reading with training from IMSE. We do letter writing on plastic canvas, sand writing, etc. every time he writes in sand or writes a sight word he traces/underlines with his finger left to right. So probably 50-70 times a week.

 

I like recipe for reading. If you're seeing progress I'd keep with it if you can. Barton is a whole new system, usually requiring a start over I think. If you are using a tutor it would probably be more cost effective to take a training course yourself. IMSE trains in a lot of states, for primary training you would be covered until third grade level to tutor. It may help to seek further testing (audiology or something else?) if there's no progress. Recipe encourages one week per concept. DS understands the concept easily but he needs time to practice it, see it, use it all week long. We also spent weeks on b and d only. Not just 2 weeks but probably close to 5-6 I guess, with breaks too. And still there is some confusion.

 

As for your DH thinking there's not enough effort, or other thoughts, it maybe your child's dyslexia is different from your husbands? Guessing is typical and not from a lack of trying. Confusion in the student is inherent, not from an intentional desire to fail. Being scared to try, frustrated, upset, etc, are all signs of extreme hardship our students must overcome to be successful.

 

I think if VT is helping some things keep with it but maybe there are other things that are contributing too.

 

If training you in OG isn't an option financially, maybe consult with a tutor who uses recipe can coach you with some good ideas?

 

I am not doing anything other than the book, which I guess isn't good. Did you get the training just for your child? Did you chose the Community Educator option?

 

 

 

 

[displace]

I am not doing anything other than the book, which I guess isn't good. Did you get the training just for your child? Did you chose the Community Educator option?

 

 

 

I got training through IMSE, which has classes in different cities throughout the year. You are OG trained after the program, making you eligible to be an Orton gillingham tutor if you choose. There is also an option to become certified. That is a longer process but only includes submittal of references and lesson plans after already taking the course. They have programs for kindergarten through third-grade programs as well as older than third grade. The recipe for reading is all the rules up to third grade I believe. it is a weeklong training about 35 hours. It was approximately $1000. So for a program like that the cost is very upfront versus Barton which is a cost on a per level basis. Also, a lot of people resell their Barton levels to recover the cost of their purchase. This you cannot do with training obviously. I guess if you wanted to recover the cost you could become the tutor in your "spare time". Though I would assume you probably have no spare time.

 

I think that if you can find someone certified in Orton gillingham or someone who is trained and has some experience, they could teach you a lot of the multi sensory information without you needing to attend a whole seminar. Most of the Orton gillingham program with recipe for reading involves things you may be doing already, such as phonetic review, grapheme review, blending of real and nonsense words, sight word techniques, etc.

 

A lot of people find great success with Barton. For me, it was too structured. I also benefited greatly from general instruction information at the seminar for IMSE. I am a new homeschooler with no history of early childhood education. Therefore, a lot of basics in the seminar I think other parents may know about. Those things including engaging your student in the lessons, making lessons child friendly, reading books centered around new concepts, etc.  Those were basic support systems I needed when I started homeschooling as we quickly pulled out of public school as soon as we had our diagnosis and I was overwhelmed quickly.  For me the IMSE training also incorporates a LOT more writing than Barton, which is good practice (though hard) for a dysgraphic child which I have.

 

That being said, if you have not yet had a formal diagnosis it would probably be the first best step.

 

ETA -- fixed phone typos and clarified

[PeterPan]

I left a message with the special ed department this morning, this makes total sense.

 

For VT, he has several diagnoses and she said with this perceptual issues, it would take 36 weeks at minimum. and that he is working on both eyes working together at this stage and this is when I would see most improvement in reading.

 

Idk, this year has been rough. We feel isolated and I feel burned out just trying to get the basics done with both my older ones. The PS is supposed to be excellent for kids with any difficulties. Would I be able to outsource remediation to them?

Your eye doc cannot diagnose dyslexia and it's out of her field to do anything but suggest a referral.  It would be a shame if you allowed incorrect advice (that dyslexia can go away with VT) to keep you from getting a proper diagnosis and beginning intensive intervention.

 

I'm sorry you're so burnt out.  Sigh.  But maybe doing an hour a day of slogging through stuff that isn't going well is part of what's wearing you out?  Maybe it will be easier to get the scores, get the labels, get the proper instruction going?  Still hard work, but at least then it's positive.  Levels 1 and 2 of Barton *typically* go more quickly for most kids.  By level 3 they're writing sentences (I know, hard to believe!).  So you would literally be able to stop the slogging, stop the bogging down, and transfer that energy into building him up.  

 

There are a number of programs that have the bones of OG in theory.  That doesn't mean they're easy for a person with no training to pick up and use in a challenging disability situation.  Yes, people on the boards have gotten the OG training and then used an inexpensive spine to make magic.  That's fine, because they had the training.  If you want to get training, knock yourself out.  And if you want open and go, where everything is there, that's great too.  Barton will be that for you.  There is SO much Barton adds, all the little steps and heading off problems, introducing concepts ahead so they build and can be used later.  It's really brilliant.  We've had professional OG tutors say they spend 2 hours prepping one (1) hour session!  I don't have time for that.  But if you want to get OG training so you can use an inexpensive spine effectively, it's certainly an option.  Search for dyslexia schools in your state to see who is offering the training and when.  You'd probably have some options.  Around here, it's $1600, 6 weeks, but top of the line. It's just all what you want.

 

The CTOPP or similar test a psych runs is going to look at phonological processing.  Your ds' phonological processing has NOTHING to do with his vision problems.  The doc is right he has visual processing issues remaining, but improving them will not alter his phonological processing scores.   They're going to see whether he can glue and unglue words, remove a first letter to form a new word, etc., etc., and it will be auditory, not a vision thing.  

 

The ONLY way you would want to put your dc into the ps full or part-time for reading intervention is if they are using an Orton-Gillingham based multisensory program.  There *are* public schools that do.  There are publicly funded charter schools that do.  There are dyslexia schools that do.  You could look to see what your options are.  Where I live we have charter schools that specialize in dyslexia and have OG-trained dyslexia tutors on staff.  I would have NO qualms sending a dc into that.  Some will enroll homeschooling students part-time.  The question is not who's doing it but what program they're using.

 

Truly, implementing Barton wouldn't be any harder than what you're doing right now.  It would be easier in fact.  

 

Maybe you're going to hit some walls now, because it's sort of the death of a dream...  The VT doc holds out, saying maybe it will go away, maybe it will go away, and now you're getting hit with this idea that it might NOT go away, that maybe you'll have to do things you didn't want to do, on top of the rest of your load, etc. etc.  But you're in a good place.  You've found his vision problems and you're pursuing testing for the rest.  That's what you do.  And whatever needs to happen, you'll do.  It's not going to be harder than slogging through stuff that isn't working.  It's actually going to be BETTER.  For us, getting into materials meant for dyslexics was this HUGE breath of fresh air!  Things finally fit, with Barton anticipating his issues and having the tools to get him through, in teeny tiny steps that could work.

 

You realize I don't even remember all your issues now?  LOL  I sorta have memory issues.   :D  I have no clue if your ds is dyslexic or not.  It definitely sounds like a ps eval would be something for you to consider, if your district evals homeschoolers.  Just make calls and see what happens I guess.  You'd rather know now than later.

 

[PeterPan]

I resold my Barton levels 1 and 2 for $225 ppd.  That was on ebay so I lost some.  Even so, that means my real cost was $65 each for those levels.  We're in Barton 3 now.  I paid $300 for the level, $100 for the readers (yes, I bought them, they're ADORABLE), and $15-ish (I forget) for shipping.  I would anticipate selling them for 20% off again, ppd.  Meaning for levels 3-9 or whatever I'm paying $85 (I'm lazy on the math here) maybe a level.  

 

In other words, I get fully scripted lessons, videos I can refer back to every time, NO prep time, and I pay less than it costs to get OG training.  But I'm the total opposite of Displace, hehe.  I make myself totally free to alter as needed and have no energy, after 11 years of this, to give to lesson planning.  I want open and go.  

 

I think both options are good.  Someone suggested to me that I take the plunge with Barton, see how it goes, and if we hit a wall I could pursue the training.  In our area that fabulous training is only offered once a year, in the summer.  In other words I would have had to wait from October (when we got our diagnosis) to July, then done the training, THEN begun intervention.  That was obviously unacceptable, so in our case it was better to begin and go back and get further training if I needed it.

 

Just gives you options.  :)

[geodob]

It appears that your son has Convergence issues.

At 8 years of age, his brain would have learned to cope with this Convergence problem?

With each eye is focussed on a different point.

It copes by ignoring vision from one eye, to avoid confusion.

Basically shutting down the processing of vision from one eye.

Each eye uses a different side of the brains Visual Cortex.

So that in shutting down one eye, its Visual Cortex is shut down.

 

But an important element of each eye having their own Visual Cortex on one side?

Is that in combination, we can locate left and right.

Where each eye has a different 'field of vision', that the mid brain combines.

To form a combined left-right field of vision.

 

But with Convergence issues, one side is shut down.

Without an opposing side, their can be no left-right ?

No way to visual locate these opposing points.

 

From what you wrote, I would suggest that his left eye was shut down?

So that taking your saw/was example.

When you look at the word SAW ?

Your left eye sees it from left to right.  SAW.

While your right eye, sees it from its right side to the left. WAS.

 

Which the brain combines to form a whole left to right image SAW.

 

But if we are only using the right eye ?

Then W becomes the starting point of reading.

So that SAW is read as WAS.

 

While Vision Therapy can correct the Convergence issue,

The side of the Visual Cortex that has been dormant?

Needs to be reactivated.

Then the next step, is for the Mid-Brain, to combine the images from both sides?

To form a full Left to Right field of vision,

SA... is combined with ...AW.

Forming SAW, with left to right clearly sensed.

[Heathermomster]

Geodob, Would VT be able to tell her whether the left side is shut down? Also, how do you get the left eye reactivated? Does VT cover that and how long should that take? Would exercises that involve cross body motion come into play?

[summerreading]

HIs left eye isn't shut down, he was turning his head in order to block double vision.

He has a progress eval for VT this week. I asked her about skipping small words, and she said that where he is in VT now, that this is not from his vision.

This doctor hasn't led me on, she stated in the beginning she is not addressing his reading, just the visual skills needed for reading he is deficient in.

 

No label or diagnoses of dyslexia since we haven't been for evals. His visual dxs are Binocular instability, accommodative insufficiency, accommodative infacility, oculomotor dysfunction, visual motor deficiency, visual processing speed deficiency, lateral/directionality deficiency.

 

 

 

I'm just going to wait now. I put in calls to get moving on evals and will talk more indepth with the VT doctor about what he should be able to achieve, given no other issues, at this time with his progress. I think like OhElizabeth said, I would probably benefit from something scripted, b/c I'm just feeling like not trying to figure out anything on my own anymore.

[geodob]

That is important that 'his left eye isn't shut down'?

Where perhaps you could imagine the situation, where each eye is looking at a different letter/ word?

 

So that when he looks at; SAW ?

One eye has S as it first focal point.

While the other eye has W as its first focal point?

 

Which the brain has to make sense of? 

Where left/right confusion, might instead be understood left/ right eye confusion?

 

While this applies when looking directly at a word.

You might also consider the effect that this has, when reading across a line of text?

With one eye looking ahead, which could be the next word?

While the other eye is still looking at the last word?

 

But another fact about vision?

Is that for example, if you stop and look at a word for a second?

Your eyes don't stay still.

Their is only actually only a tiny area on the back of the eye, that can see clearly.

So to create a larger clearer image?

The eyes make 5 movements each second, and look around the image.

The brain puts these 5 images together, to form a larger clear image.

 

But when each eye is looking at a different point?

Then we have 2 different images being formed.

SAW and WAS.

 

Which one to read?

[summerreading]

That is important that 'his left eye isn't shut down'?

Where perhaps you could imagine the situation, where each eye is looking at a different letter/ word?

 

 

He just had another progress eval today, and the OD said he just doesn't have the stability and stamina to hold the focus once he gets it. His session time has been cut in half to focus on this issue only. He gives up easily, it's something we are trying to work on with him. She says he can make a close object one but gets frustrated and gives up holding it. She said "saw/was" is from this issue.

So I guess I have the answer for this, or at least until this is fixed. If he can hold the image and still reverses then there are more issues. She said his depth perception is 100% improved :)

 

The PS called me back and left a message as said they don't test homeschoolers. I thought they had to and will look into this.

 

Well back to my first question, she said she is holding off on the perceptual issues to work only on the remaining convergence.

[PeterPan]

Check your state Dept of Ed and find out what the law says.  Our state doesn't require them to, but most schools seem to do it just to be decent.  Ours was dragging their feet till I dragged out the portion of the law that says they HAVE to for the scholarship we're applying for.  All of a sudden, bam, flurries of things were happening.  So find out the law and quote it, politely and in writing.

[PeterPan]

Btw, your ps will have a principal and a SN coordinator.  If you want to ask politely again, just call and ask to talk with the principal.  Sometimes it's squeaky wheel kinda thing, kwim?  If you have the law, common decency, or any other way to be persuasive, go for it again.  

[geodob]

I was concerned with the term 'gives up easily'?

As it really means that he is 'straining' to hold focus.

Vision Therapy is a lot like 'weight training', and an incremental process of learning to lift slightly heavier and heavier weights.

Where the weights are slightly increased, until the strain disappears and then some more weight can be added.

But it is a gradual process, as one moves on from their limit.

 

With the PS and tests, you could contact your School District Office, who will tell the PS what they have to do.

[She Reads a Lot]

It does sound like there is more work to do with the VT based on your last post, OP, but so many of the things you describe in other posts sound like my son, who just turned 11 and has done VT, is dyslexic, ADHD, and SPD. Even at 11, he still has to look at his hands to remember left and right (I taught him the L with the left hand trick and it seems to help). I'm glad you are working to get an eval because it does seem like there are flags for dyslexia.

 

OhElizabeth is the expert but I'll just add another plug for Barton here. It is a fantastic program. When we started Barton, my eight-year-old son couldn't spell "the"--he used no vowels at all in what he wrote. In two years, we've gotten almost halfway through the 10 levels, and he can spell things like "epoxy" and "Wisconsin"! I would never had expected to see this level of progress. Yes, it's hard work, but between the scripting and how incremental it is, it works! And even though my son whines a little when we start Barton, he doesn't complain while we are doing the program. I get less pushback during Barton lessons than during math even! I tell you, Susan Barton is a word genius. She has created an amazing program for dyslexic kiddos.

 

Everything OhE said about buying and selling the levels is spot on. You do have to get extra tiles from Level 2 on if you want to sell your set used (or use the Barton tiles app), but basically you just need to come up with the money for two levels at the start, then you sell Level 1 and use the money to buy Level 3. Once you finish Level 2, you sell it and use that $ to buy Level 4, and so on. Barton is popular and holds its value, so you get most of your investment back. And it is absolutely worth it if your kiddo is indeed dyslexic.

 

Best of luck!

Christina

[VinNY]

He just had another progress eval today, and the OD said he just doesn't have the stability and stamina to hold the focus once he gets it. His session time has been cut in half to focus on this issue only. He gives up easily, it's something we are trying to work on with him. She says he can make a close object one but gets frustrated and gives up holding it. She said "saw/was" is from this issue.

So I guess I have the answer for this, or at least until this is fixed. If he can hold the image and still reverses then there are more issues. She said his depth perception is 100% improved :)

 

The PS called me back and left a message as said they don't test homeschoolers. I thought they had to and will look into this.

 

Well back to my first question, she said she is holding off on the perceptual issues to work only on the remaining convergence.

 

 

Public schools do have an obligation under Child Find to identify and evaluate children between the ages of three and 21 that are suspected of having disabilities, if they reside in the district and attend public school or attend a non-public or home school within the district.

 

http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=49

 

YES, schools are required to identify and evaluate all children who may have disabilities under the Child Find mandate. If you have a student who is struggling and has not been evaluated or received any help, read what IDEA 2004 says about Child Find.

The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act includes the Child Find mandate.  Schools are required to locate, identify and evaluate all children with disabilities from birth through age 21. (20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(3))

The Child Find mandate applies to all children who reside within a State, including:

• children who attend private schools and public schools,
• highly mobile children,
• migrant children,
• homeless children, and
• children who are wards of the state.

This includes all children who are suspected of having a disability, including children who receive passing grades and are “advancing from grade to grade.†(34 CFR 300.111©) The law does not require children to be “labeled†or classified by their disability. (20 U.S.C. 1412(a)(3)(B); 34 CFR 300.111(d)).

 

- See more at: http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=49#sthash.UWRthkaZ.dpuf

[VinNY]

Also place your request in writing to the Director of Special ED in your school district. Send it certified mail or hand deliver it and ask for a date stamp on your copy. That sets a time frame they are obliged to work under. State your child is experiencing difficulties with .......or struggling to .......(fill in the blanks)  and that you are requesting under IDEA 2004 Child Find Mandate an educational evaluation for your child. 

 

Not all states provide services for homeschoolers but all states are required to evaluate. 

[summerreading]

Also place your request in writing to the Director of Special ED in your school district. Send it certified mail or hand deliver it and ask for a date stamp on your copy. That sets a time frame they are obliged to work under. State your child is experiencing difficulties with .......or struggling to .......(fill in the blanks)  and that you are requesting under IDEA 2004 Child Find Mandate an educational evaluation for your child. 

 

Not all states provide services for homeschoolers but all states are required to evaluate. 

 

Thank you very much for the law info and this advice.

[summerreading]

Here is my update:

I've been making sure I am sitting with him for reading lessons for a set amount of time, stretching out the book lessons over more days. We got through our review and moved onto compound words. VT says with right/left exercises he needs to slow down and be more serious. He tries to add his own flare to it and make it "silly". This seems to be helping too.

I found a reading tutor who has been tutoring OG for 25 years. We will see her on Monday and she seems very interested in tutoring me to help him as well. I don't plan to sign up for anything right now, but I would like to meet her for the hour and see how it goes. The one NP that came highly recommended to me finally got back to me and said she is booked for the school year, but can see him in the summer. I think this works out for me. He will have graduated VT by then, I pray!, and I will have a few months of being more diligent, taking all things slower and more focused to see.

I'm happy with this for now and can move onto stressing out about the next thing/child :)

[PeterPan]

Sounds great!  Psychs are normally booked out quite a while, so that's good to get an appt and get on the list!  And yes, I'm like you, where I didn't want to go into a psych with things that were actually vision problems.  

 

Well good, it's working out for you!  And see what the OG tutor says.  Personally, I'd want that psych eval *before* OG tutoring.  If you need to pay $65 an hour (the cost around here) for OG tutoring, then you want documentation and a paper trail for later accommodations, etc.  She may also have a recommend on who to go to.

 

Glad things are coming together for you!  :)

[summerreading]

Sounds great!  Psychs are normally booked out quite a while, so that's good to get an appt and get on the list!  And yes, I'm like you, where I didn't want to go into a psych with things that were actually vision problems.  

 

Well good, it's working out for you!  And see what the OG tutor says.  Personally, I'd want that psych eval *before* OG tutoring.  If you need to pay $65 an hour (the cost around here) for OG tutoring, then you want documentation and a paper trail for later accommodations, etc.  She may also have a recommend on who to go to.

 

Glad things are coming together for you!   :)

 

You're right, I would want documentation first, but the NP hadn't gotten back to me and setting up any kind of appointment seemed a stress relief. If anything, one session can help me teach better. She works with and recommended the NP I talked to, so yay!

[PeterPan]

Oh I'm not saying skip the OG tutor's meeting session, mercy!  I think it's a great idea!  If anything, she'll have feedback on whether she thinks you're on track.  I just meant I wouldn't go doing 5 days a week for 3 months before you get evals, kwim?  But that's just me.  In reality, I've been doing Barton with my ds, got into level 3, and he STILL tested as reading disorder with the ps psych.  Seriously.  So in reality you could probably do all the tutoring you want and he'll still test as dyslexic for the psych if he is.  It shows up in their reading comprehension, in their phonemic awareness (that is still crunchy, even when they get enough to read), etc. etc.  

 

I mainly just meant get that appt with the np scheduled.  And how wonderful that you've confirmed you have a good one!!  It's progress and all good!  Every time I talk with one of these professionals I learn something.  I've gotten sort of brave about just calling them or asking to meet, because even if you don't need to use their services in the end you'll learn something.  And sometimes they refer you to another person or help you piece together more.  Many of these people are very, very kind and generous with their time.  

[LaughingCat]

VT says with right/left exercises he needs to slow down and be more serious. He tries to add his own flare to it and make it "silly".

 

Just wanted to say that for both my kids the "make it silly" seems to happen when it is something relatively hard for them.  Telling them to "be more serious" doesn't help (ask me how I know :sigh: ) -- only making it easier helps.

[summerreading]

So a bit of sticker shock with the eval price. NP said: "A psychoeducational evaluation is $2250.00 and generally insurance can pay a fair share of the fee. You can check with your provider by asking if they cover a psychological evaluation ( if you inquire about the educational piece it won't be covered)"

 

Checking on what will be left for me if insurance covers the psychological part. I will be sending a letter as you all suggested to the board of ed if it's not in my budget, and honestly the budget is super small.

 

So I hope a school eval will be a quality evaluation. If I understand right, they cannot diagnose just show you scores?

[PeterPan]

It just varies with the school district as to how thorough and helpful they are.  Yes, a np eval is expensive.  You could check the Learning Ally list and see if anyone else in your area would be more affordable.  But sure start with the ps.  Just make sure you follow the law and know it so you can sorta hold their feet to the fire.  Make your request IN WRITING, date it, make a notebook to keep track of everything, and follow up.  The NOLO book is good and your library will probably have it.