Are Educational Savings Accounts The Future of Homeschooling?

[mommyoffive]

Our state does something like this. Various school districts run programs for homeschoolers. For each student they get half (or so; not sure the current precise percentage) the funding from the state that a student in a building-based program would receive. The family can then receive a percentage of that funding (generally $1600-2800) for education expenses. 

 

The families do not receive the money outright though, so there would be little incentive to homeschool for the money. There is documentation of expenses required, receipts to turn in, approval of vendors to obtain, sometimes you order items through the program; it can be somewhat complicated. There are other hoops too...mandatory testing (same as the building-based students), documentation of learning plan, sometimes work samples, contact with a teacher from the program.

 

It's been going on here since 1998, and is very successful.

 

 

What state is that?

[mommyoffive]

We lived in Southern California when I first started investigating homeschooling when dd1was a baby. I am so envious of all the options there!

 

What options do they have there? 

 

 

We are doing our first year of an online charter.  

[Lucy the Valiant]

In high regulation states (some states, such as mine, actually require MORE from home schoolers than they do from their own schools), an ESA would function as an accountability tool for the public schools. I'm not anti-ALL-regulation in education. I'd like to see the schools held to the same standard they impose on home schooling. (I agree that it would be different for states with low regulation of home schooling; that's why I think these things are most effective at state levels.)

 

In my state, this proposed ESA is not primarily FOR home schoolers - it's FOR the kids in schools who have no other choice. The school I am currently zoned for, despite spending thousands and thousands of dollars per pupil, has managed a 32% math proficiency rating. This has been going on for years, and they know about it, and are "working on it," with very little change. If someone else can do astronomically better with < 20% of the funding, then as a taxpayer, I say give that person a chance.

 

Kids are still going to slip through the cracks, but for the ones who are trying hard to succeed and move forward, this is a chance. A chance they currently do not have offered to them.

[frogger]

Our state (basically no regulation) has a bill for ESAs in front of the legislature currently.

 

I'm against it. People who are for it think we should have access to the school taxes we pay, but there are lots of people who pay for schools that do not have children who attend school - those retired people, the people who do not have children. School taxes are paid - just like highway/bridge taxes - so we can have those services available to our society. I pay taxes for our volunteer fire department, and I hope never to need their services, but I am happy to pay for them.

 

And, as a tax payer, if you are using my money, I want accountability. I want to know you are using my money wisely and efficiently. And for education - that is going to mean standardized testing or portfolio reviews. And, for those of us with no regulation, why would we want to enter that arena? And, no, I don't believe it will always be limited to those who elect to take advantage of this "free" money.

 

If you want to take advantage of school tax money, simply stick your child in your local public school. Done.

Though I agree with what you say as far as taxes are taxes and you can't expect the money back. That doesn't make sense. Should only food stamp recipients pay taxes for the food stamp program? So we are in agreement there but I disagree that the best way to serve everyone is to force them into public schools.

 

 

I have served, tutored, helped in self-contained classrooms, and am related to special needs students. There are times (circumstance and location dependent) that putting your child in public school can be a real detriment more often then is the case for a more average child. If you are middle class or even lower class and paying property taxes (over 50% goes to public schools in our area) and struggling to make ends meet I don't see how it's helpful to tell someone to stick their children in a school that may be worse than nothing at all. It is cheaper and easier to homeschool average children than those with special needs. It is also harder as a middle class or lower class family to pay for private school and add to that that special needs schools are less common you really put families at a disadvantage. Especially since they may not even make enough to pay income taxes but property taxes still get you no matter how much you make. So it is pretty painful for some to pay a lot of property taxes and then not be able to use the services they are forced to pay for.

 

I recognize with you though that it is more often middle to upper class welfare though.

[Farrar]

*RESURRECTING AN OLD THREAD*

 

Resurrecting an old thread because my tiny state (New Hampshire) is actually considering this very thing - a universal ESA that would apply to *all* kids in the entire state. It has already passed our state senate, and is on its way to the house (next week).

 

To phrase it simply, our schools are funded on a town-by-town basis, with funds coming from 2 places: a portion from the town (this is one huge factor in our property taxes as our state does not have income or sales tax) and a portion from the state (these are a mix of federal funds and state funds re-distributed). The ESA (if it passes) will give 90% of that state portion TO THE PARENTS OF THE STUDENTS; the town-specific portion will stay in the town with the public school.

 

Our state average per pupil spending is $17K.

 

This ESA Bill is HUGE! It's a base rate of $3200 per kid that parents would receive on a debit card to be used for educational expenses - tutoring, classes, lessons, books, field trips, private school tuition, possibly to be saved for college, etc. . . . it's pretty wide open. The remaining 10% of that state portion will be divided 2 ways: 5% is an automatic savings to the state (hence the "SAVINGS" part of Educational Savings Account), and 5% will create an administrative office to oversee / check the expenditures. So basically, the schools will still be receiving the same funding for >$12K per pupil that they are NO LONGER EDUCATING (for any kids who leave the public schools for private or home schooling), but school children across the state will now have access to about 20% of those "per pupil" funds currently controlled 100% by the public school districts.

 

There is a separate bill that applies (slightly differently but the same principle) to special education, allowing parents to go outside the districts for testing & therapies, if they so choose.

 

I don't want to post political things that violate the terms here, but this is certainly a relevant example to this thread - and very interesting to me personally.

 

So... am I understanding this correctly? They're going to decrease the state's portion of the per pupil spending pretty dramatically from the school's perspective. But, the school will still receive the per pupil allotment for all the kids in the district no matter where they go to school? Is that right? And how do the numbers balance out on that? As in, does the fact that they'll now get that amount for homeschooled and private schooled kids mean a net loss or gain for the schools by and large?

 

I'm thinking that from a bureaucratic perspective that if there's a state that could make oversight of ESA's work that it would be a small state like NH. Obviously if this was happening here, I'd totally take advantage of it and happily. But I'm thinking this is going to undermine public school funding, which I don't like. And I'm also thinking the benefits may still help higher income people a great deal more, which I'm always dubious about.

[Guest]

We do something similar through the homeschool charters in this state and it works beautifully. Even with a fraction of what is given the public schoolers (about 1/4 the amount and half of that goes to overhead for the charter) we still end up with nearly 2k per student for the family to spend on core subjects and electives. It's allowed us to do sports and arts we couldn't otherwise afford, buy a spendier but wonderful phonics program, pay for things like the theater and museum memberships and buy dozens of reading books, etc. I am able to educate them efficiently and with the extras we want but would struggle to afford, at a fraction of the cost of the public schools.

 

ESAs are a form of voucher and they follow the child, which is fantastic. It basically would subsidize charter or private school tuition for students if they wanted that as a public school alternative, while still allowing public educated students to have their base student spending. It might lead to some schools closing and consolidating but in our state that has been happening already, and the class sizes remain largely unchanged (lower birth rate has caught up with us a bit). It also means skimming off some of the masssive administration (three of them to every teacher) but again, because of the way these are structured it is meant to keep the same amount going into the classroom/instruction portion and cuts are in district staff and administrators, of which most districts have far more than is necessary.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Lucy the Valiant]

So... am I understanding this correctly? They're going to decrease the state's portion of the per pupil spending pretty dramatically from the school's perspective. But, the school will still receive the per pupil allotment for all the kids in the district no matter where they go to school? Is that right? And how do the numbers balance out on that? As in, does the fact that they'll now get that amount for homeschooled and private schooled kids mean a net loss or gain for the schools by and large?

 

I'm thinking that from a bureaucratic perspective that if there's a state that could make oversight of ESA's work that it would be a small state like NH. Obviously if this was happening here, I'd totally take advantage of it and happily. But I'm thinking this is going to undermine public school funding, which I don't like. And I'm also thinking the benefits may still help higher income people a great deal more, which I'm always dubious about.

 

Yes, the schools will keep 80% of the per pupil allotment for kids they are no longer educating. Districts are estimated to benefit $59 million, collectively.

 

From the perspective of a taxpayer in this state (where EVERYTHING is funded by property taxes, which you pay regardless of income, employment, health status, anything) . . . this is a good deal for NH.

[Farrar]

Yes, the schools will keep 80% of the per pupil allotment for kids they are no longer educating. Districts are estimated to benefit $59 million, collectively.

 

From the perspective of a taxpayer in this state (where EVERYTHING is funded by property taxes, which you pay regardless of income, employment, health status, anything) . . . this is a good deal for NH.

 

And what about in terms of the state? They're going to be paying less per pupil, but they're going to fund all pupils? Is that right? How much more will that end up costing them?

 

This is interesting, really. The ESA would be something everyone gets that families could use however they see fit, which seems good. And I like that it could go into a college savings account for families that weren't sure what to do with it or who just need to save. Or into tutoring. Since *everyone* is going to get that money, it means it's not increased regulation for homeschoolers either - everyone will have the same oversight of it. I wonder what the process will be in terms of approving tutors. Or in terms of whether the money can go to a religious school. Or how they've oversee buying curricula. That's part of why I think it would really be best small scale. And NH is small scale as state level regs go.

[La Condessa]

What options do they have there? 

 

 

We are doing our first year of an online charter.  

 

-Charters that provide curriculum libraries, support, and public funds for educational expenses similar to these ESAs, for the homeschoolers who don't mind jumping a few hoops in exchange for a couple thousand dollars per kid to use on tutors, lessons, books, etc. 

-Legal standing as private schools for those who want minimal interference (and therefore they can use the coverdell accounts mentioned upthread that are unavailable to most homeschoolers). 

-Hybrid charters that allow students to do one, two, three, or five days a week on-campus doing selected subjects in a classroom while homeschooling the subjects they prefer. 

-Tons of different co-ops. 

-Language immersion schools. 

-My sister's boys attend a public school with an alternative organization, and in the afternoons community volunteers come in to teach electives in their areas of expertise, so they have an amazing variety of subjects they can learn from individuals passionate in those areas.   My mom teaches sewing there.

-Everything from gymnastics classes to science museum classes catered to homeschoolers' schedules.

-AOPS is even opening a school there.

[SeaConquest]

-Charters that provide curriculum libraries, support, and public funds for educational expenses similar to these ESAs, for the homeschoolers who don't mind jumping a few hoops in exchange for a couple thousand dollars per kid to use on tutors, lessons, books, etc.

-Legal standing as private schools for those who want minimal interference (and therefore they can use the coverdell accounts mentioned upthread that are unavailable to most homeschoolers).

-Hybrid charters that allow students to do one, two, three, or five days a week on-campus doing selected subjects in a classroom while homeschooling the subjects they prefer.

-Tons of different co-ops.

-Language immersion schools.

-My sister's boys attend a public school with an alternative organization, and in the afternoons community volunteers come in to teach electives in their areas of expertise, so they have an amazing variety of subjects they can learn from individuals passionate in those areas. My mom teaches sewing there.

-Everything from gymnastics classes to science museum classes catered to homeschoolers' schedules.

-AOPS is even opening a school there.

They also have specialty programs through the charters that run programs like skiing and watersports. You can also go to Disneyland and whale watching, or to Catalina, and have the charter pay for it all. My kid just got back from a field trip to the Olympic Training Center, here in San Diego. He got an archery lesson on the field with Team USA archers a few feet away. All paid for by the charter and run by homeschoolers.

 

Eta: my monthly hoops take me about 15-20 minutes of administrivia per month. Totally worth it for us.

Edited March 30, 2017 by SeaConquest

[mommyoffive]

Is there a place to find out what states either have the online charters with funding or these ESAs?

 

 

Online Charters from what I have gathered

 

WI

CA

AK

 

 

 

ESA

Arizona? 

Maybe NH

 

 

 

Anyone else know of some? 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I'm not positive we have online charters for homeschool, ours is a physical district we coordinate with. But I do think we have some options through the anchorage school district for independent study at home with their materials which may function similar to k12?

[maize]

Is there a place to find out what states either have the online charters with funding or these ESAs?

 

 

Online Charters from what I have gathered

 

WI

CA

AK

 

 

 

ESA

Arizona?

Maybe NH

 

 

 

Anyone else know of some?

Utah and Idaho both have flexible charter programs. I think Hawaii has something. Colorado maybe has similar programs through regular district schools?

[Lucy the Valiant]

And what about in terms of the state? They're going to be paying less per pupil, but they're going to fund all pupils? Is that right? How much more will that end up costing them?

 

This is interesting, really. The ESA would be something everyone gets that families could use however they see fit, which seems good. And I like that it could go into a college savings account for families that weren't sure what to do with it or who just need to save. Or into tutoring. Since *everyone* is going to get that money, it means it's not increased regulation for homeschoolers either - everyone will have the same oversight of it. I wonder what the process will be in terms of approving tutors. Or in terms of whether the money can go to a religious school. Or how they've oversee buying curricula. That's part of why I think it would really be best small scale. And NH is small scale as state level regs go.

 

Students currently enrolled in private schools are not eligible for the ESA. (There is a separate bill for special ed, too. And *both* bills differentiate for reduced-lunch program students, ESL students, etc.)

 

My understanding is that the pre-loaded debit card will work similarly to food stamp EBT cards (I'm not sure how one gets on that list, but that is what the administrative agency is charged with organizing). And as DH and I were discussing this, we realized that we (personally) would be in favor of this from a food stamp / EBT perspective, too - if the state gives a family $500 for groceries, but they request to use $100 and buy seeds and garden tools (and give the other $400 back to the state), we would vote for a bill that supported that. (Now, growing food in our Zone 5 hardiness is another question altogether, but - the principle seems applicable.)

 

The concept of whether or not funds can be applied to a religious school was challenged in Arizona's very-similar ESA, and the ESA's were found constitutional because no one religion was given any sort of preference.

http://dailysignal.com/2014/03/21/education-savings-accounts-deemed-constitutional-arizona-supreme-court/

 

It's a very interesting discussion, to be sure.

 

 

(And you are right that we are small - so small, in fact, that many towns here do not have their own high school and "tuition out" their kids to neighboring towns. Last year one town realized they could send 4 of their kids to a local Montessori for $4K/kid less than to the neighboring public school, so with town / taxpayer's approval, they did. All was well and good until the DOE got wind of it, sued the town, and shut the whole thing down. Now who benefits from that, one might wonder?)

[Lucy the Valiant]

Is there a place to find out what states either have the online charters with funding or these ESAs?

 

 

Online Charters from what I have gathered

 

WI

CA

AK

 

 

 

ESA

Arizona? 

Maybe NH

 

 

 

Anyone else know of some? 

 

https://www.edchoice.org/resource-hub/fast-facts/

Also, the Cato Institute has a pile of research. cato.org

 

 

Add NH to your list of schools with an online charter; ours accepts students full time or part time, and also works with our community college system. VLACS

Edited March 31, 2017 by Lucy the Valiant