Do I switch from Saxon 7/6 & to what?

[elah]

This is our first year for homeschooling. My DD in 6th grade placed into saxon 7/6. I'm not sure if it is a good fit for her or if we should switch. She is on lesson 60. At first she could keep up just fine when it was mostly review. After that she started to struggle. The best way I can describe it is that two things are happening. One, she does the lesson practice and will almost always get everything right. Then when she moves on to the mixed review she gets half wrong and I have to help walk her through the corrections. On the tests she went from the first 6 being all A's to the last 3-4 being all D-F's! The second issue is that it is taking her around two hours each day to do the one lesson. For a child who is going into this hating math, this is a big problem. 

 

I went into Saxon having high hopes that the spiral method would help her with the retention b/c that was a problem with her math in the brick and mortar school. I guess that in my current frustration I need some outside opinions on if I should switch half way through or wait until next school year to switch. AND what would be a better fit for her?

 

Thanks so much!

[Ellie]

This is our first year for homeschooling. My DD in 6th grade placed into saxon 7/6. I'm not sure if it is a good fit for her or if we should switch. She is on lesson 60. At first she could keep up just fine when it was mostly review. After that she started to struggle. The best way I can describe it is that two things are happening. One, she does the lesson practice and will almost always get everything right. Then when she moves on to the mixed review she gets half wrong and I have to help walk her through the corrections. On the tests she went from the first 6 being all A's to the last 3-4 being all D-F's! The second issue is that it is taking her around two hours each day to do the one lesson. For a child who is going into this hating math, this is a big problem. 

 

I went into Saxon having high hopes that the spiral method would help her with the retention b/c that was a problem with her math in the brick and mortar school. I guess that in my current frustration I need some outside opinions on if I should switch half way through or wait until next school year to switch. AND what would be a better fit for her?

 

Thanks so much!

 

:grouphug:

 

Saxon is incremental, not spiral, but yes, it does a great job of helping children remember because they keep using everything they've learned in every single problem set in the whole book.

 

So, she does all of the problems in all of the problem sets, yes?

 

Saxon's recommendation for children who struggle like this is to start back at the beginning of the book. Yes, really. :-)  

[mom2att]

In spite of the fact that she tested into 7/6, it sounds like she is placed too high. The lessons will only get more difficult from here, and the last 30 lessons of a Saxon book are a challenge in my opinion. If you don't want to start the book over as Ellie suggested, an option is to get the 6/5 book. Don't start at the beginning--start with the tests.  Have her take the tests until she starts testing below 80%, and then begin the lessons there. When you finish, begin the 7/6 book again.

 

What I wouldn't do is continue with the path you are on. If none of the above sounds appealing and you are apprehensive to switch to a new curricula this late in the year, try splitting the Saxon lessons in 7/6.  Do a drill sheet, teach the lesson, do the lesson practice one day. On the second day cover the mental math section and assign the mixed practice. Or something similar by doing evens one day and odds the next (same lesson).  That will cut down on the time and frustration, but still be moving through the material.

 

Finally, if you are leaving her to do the whole mixed practice independently, she may need a little more hand holding. My sixth grader is getting more independent with 7/6 (we are also on lesson 60), but I have been right there with him for most of the way, talking him through problems when he has difficultly. If she didn't like math and struggled with retention in school, she may need you there more than you think.

[Omma]

I have heard (from Art Reed) that if you get below 80% on two tests in a row, then go back 5 lessons in the book.  This would mean that at whatever point she got the first two D's/F's (or even C's), go back 5 lessons from there and restart from that point.  Also, do you have a DVD instructor to go along with the math (you could use Art Reed DVD's or DIVE or Teaching Tapes or Saxon Teacher).

 

 

[elah]

Thanks for the feedback! She does do every question in the mixed review and we use the DIVE dvds. I think that instead of switching textbooks half way through I will go back to where she started to struggle and be more hands on with even the mixed practice. 

 

Let's say that by doing that I am able to help her finish the school year using saxon 7/6. Do you think that I should use saxon 8/7 next year or switch to something different? I was not planning on using Saxon for high school math but want her to be prepared for it. 

 

[Ellie]

Thanks for the feedback! She does do every question in the mixed review and we use the DIVE dvds. I think that instead of switching textbooks half way through I will go back to where she started to struggle and be more hands on with even the mixed practice. 

 

Let's say that by doing that I am able to help her finish the school year using saxon 7/6. Do you think that I should use saxon 8/7 next year or switch to something different? I was not planning on using Saxon for high school math but want her to be prepared for it. 

 

The progression with current editions of Saxon is Math 76, Math 87, Algebra 1...*unless* the dc finishes Math 76 with less than an 80% average. In that case, it's Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1.

[kiana]

I actually do think she's probably placed too high and I would suspect that she's also learning somewhat from pattern-matching -- i.e. ok, we did a bunch of fraction multiplication problems, so all the way through we're going to be multiplying fractions -- rather than thinking about what each problem is actually asking.

 

It looks like you've decided to go back to where she started struggling. That's a reasonable approach to take. What I'd do from now on is if she doesn't do well on a test -- at least a B -- I would go back and re-do all the lessons from the last test, and then re-give the test. I would absolutely NOT proceed through with a student who was getting D's and F's -- it's like building a house on a crooked foundation. It won't ever be straight. 

[BusyMom5]

Exactly what kiana said- in school her textbook or worksheets probably had them doing all the same sort of problem, so all she had to do is plug in the numbers in the right place to get the right answer.  Saxon doesn't work like that!  That's one of it's strengths IMO.  You have to look at each problem and figure out what they are asking for, then remember how to do that type of problem.  You can't just mindlessly plug in numbers into a formula and get all the right answers.  So many people say Saxon is drill- but I consider those type worksheets drill, they don't necessarily teach the child how to reason out the answer.  This is part of the problem with some of my kids coming from PS, they didn't want to stop and think, they wanted to just write the numbers in a problem and compute.  WHen we first started I would have my ODD lay her pencil down after every problem as she read the next one, and make her think for a second before picking it up.  My ODD does really well in school, but my second was struggling with math.  She is doing 5/4, but I do most of it on the board.  Anything she has a problem with we walk thru.  She's doing pretty well IMO, but not getting absolutely everything.  That's okay!  If she doesn't remember how to do something, that means I need to remind her again.

[elah]

Thank you so much for everyone's feedback! I wanted to post an update for anyone who might be interested. 

The first thing I did was go from lesson 61 back to lesson 37. This time around I have her do her math with me. She tells me the answer and if it's wrong she then orally explains her steps to me. 99% of the time she fixes it on her own b/c of hearing it out loud. We are know past the point that we turned around and she is still doing amazing. At most she only gets 1 or 2 wrong on her tests! It is night and day. She is also enjoying it a lot more too. 

 

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to help. You ladies are the best! 

[wintermom]

That's awesome! I also sit beside all my dc while they are doing their math, help out when needed, correct their work immediately and have them do the corrections right away. I also add in a little fun by doing a "math challenge" with them by having them pick 5 questions that I'll do and see who can make fewer errors. My dd's motivation and attention to detail soared. She LOVES beating mom! ;)

[Omma]

That's great news!  It's so nice to hear a positive update! 

 

Interestingly enough, I've had to apply Art Reed's advice just this past week as my ds hit lesson 60 in Algebra and got a D on his test, with his last test being a C.  Before that it was all A's and B's so I am now going back and revisiting the past 10 lessons, just to be sure.  What is it about this magic 60 number in the Saxon lessons that causes so much pain for some! 

 

Brenda

[kiana]

That's great news!  It's so nice to hear a positive update! 

 

Interestingly enough, I've had to apply Art Reed's advice just this past week as my ds hit lesson 60 in Algebra and got a D on his test, with his last test being a C.  Before that it was all A's and B's so I am now going back and revisiting the past 10 lessons, just to be sure.  What is it about this magic 60 number in the Saxon lessons that causes so much pain for some! 

 

Brenda

 

That's when there starts to be enough new stuff that if they've been coasting and haven't really mastered it they run into trouble.