Switching to CLE math--now, later, not at all?

[sbgrace]

I am having so much trouble thinking this through!

 

We're in 5th grade and using Singapore/Math in Focus.

 

 

My kids easily test into the 500 level of CLE right now. I guess this means the current program is working (partly because I work in my own review), and I can probably assume they would test into 600 level next year if I wait until 6th grade to switch.

 

Should I:

Switch to CLE 500 now? We might be able to finish it faster than our current program; I'm not sure.

Finish our 5th grade MIF (I own), and plan to switch to CLE next year?

Just stick with MIF through middle school as it is, so far, working.

 

My issues with Singapore Math in Focus:

I would prefer a curriculum with more built in review/spiral. (This is the biggest reason, and why I want to leave.)

I also feel some of the topics are just too much, developmentally, at this age.

I may need to purchase the teacher's manual at the middle school levels, and it's pricey.

 

 

Concerns about CLE:

There are an awful lot of problems each day compared to our current program. I have one with a terrible attention span, and I would possibly need to break each lesson up throughout the day for him.

I would like to do Algebra I in 8th grade if we're ready. I'm not sure I can do that using CLE, though I will try to accelerate. I'm not sure if starting with 500 now vs. starting with 600 next year is more likely to get us where we need to be for Algebra in 8th.

 

 

I would love any thoughts.

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

If MiF is working, maybe you could create more of a spiral review on your own?  The Math on the Level program has this great system where all the concepts are on a checklist.  Once something is mastered it goes on a review list.  5 things are reviewed from that list each day.  You could do the same thing with MiF.  Just write down the concepts they have mastered as they master them.  You can write out 5 review problems from that list for each day of the week that you plan to do math.  They do their normal lesson plus those 5 problems.  That way everything stays fresh but not overwhelming.

 

If you really wanted to move to CLE math, it does do a great spiral review.  Did you have them do the Level 600 placement test?  Or only the Level 500?  What I was thinking was that maybe if they passed most of the Level 500 problems you might buy just the last few light units of 500 and see how they do with those (get the TM).  If they like the program and do well with it, you wouldn't have lost any time and you have already moved them into the program so there won't be such a learning curve for next year.  As for there being too many problems, it is easy to just cross out one or two from each of the review sections if they seem to really have those down.  

[Soror]

I'm considering switching dd1 from Horizons to CLE for somewhat different reasons, I don't like the teacher's manual for Horizons and I think there is just too much in 4th grade+, the pages are just so busy. I think for this moment I'm planning on waiting until 4th since I already have grade 3 Horizons here anyway. My main concern is the number of pages as well, even though the number of problems is actually less than what she is doing now. A big perk will be that it is written to the student, which I think my daughter will love.

 

Fwiw I switched dd from MiF at the end of 1st for similar reasons. Looking back I think that timing was decent, if anything I should have switched earlier. I do however plan on starting dd2 with MiF K, I do prefer it for the early ages and depending on how it goes I think I'll take her through 1st in it when I'm planning on switching her to Beast Academy.

 

From reading your post it sounds like it might be good to do as OneStep said, go ahead and order the end of the year light units and try them. When I switched dd I went ahead and did some of the previous year of Horizons and ended up skipping the end of MiF and it was a pretty smooth transition. From the beginning she liked that she could do some on her own and the work has helped build her confidence.

 

[Veritaserum]

I have taught CLE 100 through 700. What I love about CLE is the lesson format: 1-2 pages of new stuff plus 2-3 pages of review. The pages are clean in soothing green, black, and white. The booklets are small and non-threatening. My CLE kids do about half the review problems for most lessons on the topics that they're still mastering. They do all of the review for lessons 4, 9, and 15 because lessons 5, 10, and 16 are quizzes and the Light Unit test.

 

My dd12 in CLE 700 this year will probably switch to Saxon next year for either pre-algebra or Algebra (I will have her take a placement test). She does very well with a spiral format. MUS and Math Mammoth were horrible for her. She switched to CLE at level 300, so this is her fifth level of CLE. She loves it. Math is no longer intimidating for her.

[Veritaserum]

Oh, it is easy to accelerate CLE by skipping the review sections unless/until you hit any material that your child needs to stop and review. My oldest (9th grade this year) did Math Mammoth 1-3 and then CLE 400-part of 700. She had been doing MUS, but math wasn't clicking so in 5th grade I remediated with MM1-3 and part of 4. MM4 wasn't a good fit, so I switched her to CLE (accelerated) for 6th and 7th. Then she went to public school. Now she's home again and I'm going to have her do A Fresh Approach Algebra 1 because she needs some more remediation. She's planning on majoring in an art field in college, so she will only be doing enough math to meet graduation requirements and score well on her ACT/SAT. :)

[sbgrace]

If MiF is working, maybe you could create more of a spiral review on your own?  The Math on the Level program has this great system where all the concepts are on a checklist.  Once something is mastered it goes on a review list.  5 things are reviewed from that list each day.  You could do the same thing with MiF.  Just write down the concepts they have mastered as they master them.  You can write out 5 review problems from that list for each day of the week that you plan to do math.  They do their normal lesson plus those 5 problems.  That way everything stays fresh but not overwhelming.

 

If you really wanted to move to CLE math, it does do a great spiral review.  Did you have them do the Level 600 placement test?  Or only the Level 500?  What I was thinking was that maybe if they passed most of the Level 500 problems you might buy just the last few light units of 500 and see how they do with those (get the TM).  If they like the program and do well with it, you wouldn't have lost any time and you have already moved them into the program so there won't be such a learning curve for next year.  As for there being too many problems, it is easy to just cross out one or two from each of the review sections if they seem to really have those down.  

It would probably help to make a formal review system like that. It's also smarter financially, given I own the program.

 

I only did the test to place them in the 500 level/current grade level. I looked at the next test. It seemed that the topics the boys have covered in their current program would be easy to pass, but we're not quite half way through. So there were concepts we haven't seen yet this year. How would I know which light units cover those things? Can they tell me? ETA: I called. They suggested we might just start in 506 and possibly also pick up their geometry review packet (where our program is behind I think). I'm going to go ahead and do the test to place in 6th, just to see how much new material 500 contains.

 

I have taught CLE 100 through 700. What I love about CLE is the lesson format: 1-2 pages of new stuff plus 2-3 pages of review. The pages are clean in soothing green, black, and white. The booklets are small and non-threatening. My CLE kids do about half the review problems for most lessons on the topics that they're still mastering. They do all of the review for lessons 4, 9, and 15 because lessons 5, 10, and 16 are quizzes and the Light Unit test.

 

My dd12 in CLE 700 this year will probably switch to Saxon next year for either pre-algebra or Algebra (I will have her take a placement test). She does very well with a spiral format. MUS and Math Mammoth were horrible for her. She switched to CLE at level 300, so this is her fifth level of CLE. She loves it. Math is no longer intimidating for her.

It's good to know I can eliminate some problems without messing up the program, and I appreciate the specifics on which lessons to do as written. That when to switch to algebra/if we'll need pre-algebra thing is giving me pause!

[SnMomof7]

CLE does have excellent spiral review so you don't have to plan it yourself :). Many people switch out for algebra after 700 or 800. We aren't there yet :).

[MeAndTheBoys]

Personally I wouldn't advise switching to CLE now because, as much as I love CLE and as much as it is our primary math program, it isn't a high school program.  My oldest completed grades 100-700, and after 700 last year, tested into Saxon Algebra I.  We had already decided that Saxon would be our high school program (CLE only offers Algebra I and maybe Geometry in their updated Sunrise, and at any rate, doesn't go through Calculus at all).

 

So if you followed our path, you would only do 2 or, at the most, 3 years of CLE math and then possibly have to switch programs, if you wanted to use the same math company all through high school for consistancy.

 

HOWEVER, if you are interested in CLE high school or in Saxon high school, they are very parallel from our experience so far (DS1 went from CLE 700 into Algebra I and hasn't hit any review material that he didn't know, and is having a fairly easy time with the way Saxon teaches--similar to CLE).  So if those were your plans, maybe I would advise switching.

 

We really like CLE--it has worked for my super-quick mathy kid, DS1, and it is working for my less-enthusiastic-about-math DS2, with all the review to keep him from forgetting it all.  It has a gentle approach, but is thorough.  And the review is great.

 

So my two cents is to think about what you want to do for high school math--

 

And I wouldn't say that you can go straight from Math 700 into Algebra I--I think DS1 just had a lot of math strengths and was probably an anamoly.  Probably should complete Math 800 before Saxon Algebra I in most cases--DS2 is doing Math 500 in 5th grade, and I've already told him that if he wants to do Algebra in 8th grade (I'd like him to, he says he wants to--we'll see!), he will have to do math year-round to complete through Math 800 first.

 

B

I am having so much trouble thinking this through!

 

We're in 5th grade and using Singapore/Math in Focus.

 

 

My kids easily test into the 500 level of CLE right now. I guess this means the current program is working (partly because I work in my own review), and I can probably assume they would test into 600 level next year if I wait until 6th grade to switch.

 

Should I:

Switch to CLE 500 now? We might be able to finish it faster than our current program; I'm not sure.

Finish our 5th grade MIF (I own), and plan to switch to CLE next year?

Just stick with MIF through middle school as it is, so far, working.

 

My issues with Singapore Math in Focus:

I would prefer a curriculum with more built in review/spiral. (This is the biggest reason, and why I want to leave.)

I also feel some of the topics are just too much, developmentally, at this age.

I may need to purchase the teacher's manual at the middle school levels, and it's pricey.

 

 

Concerns about CLE:

There are an awful lot of problems each day compared to our current program. I have one with a terrible attention span, and I would possibly need to break each lesson up throughout the day for him.

I would like to do Algebra I in 8th grade if we're ready. I'm not sure I can do that using CLE, though I will try to accelerate. I'm not sure if starting with 500 now vs. starting with 600 next year is more likely to get us where we need to be for Algebra in 8th.

 

 

I would love any thoughts.

 

[sbgrace]

I bought it before the last two replies! Thank you both.

 

I decided to start now/in 5th to determine whether or not it will work for us. If not, I can research other options for 6th grade.

 

Good point that I should have been thinking about high school math! I'm actually leaning toward Tablet Class right now. They do have a pre-algebra.

 

I do school year round. I really think, based on the 500 diagnostic, that we probably have 1/2 the 500 level material. So I plan to skip/shorten what we already know in 500 so we don't lose time/ground.

 

I'm hoping, given year round schooling gives me extra weeks, at least my strong math child could do one of the following:

a. finish 600 and important parts of 700  in 6th grade, with Prealgebra in another program for 7th.

b. finish 600-700-800 in 6th and 7th and part of 8th if needed, moving to Algebra in 8th; I think this would be my ideal option, if CLE 700/800 can give us the prealgebra foundation we need.

 

I think I'm also ok with just doing the remainder of 5th and all of 6th with CLE and then switching to prealgebra. I'm really sick of trying to build review into our current program.  

[MeAndTheBoys]

sounds like you are thinking it through and have a plan!  Hope you like it! :)

 

B

 

I bought it before the last two replies! Thank you both.

 

I decided to start now/in 5th to determine whether or not it will work for us. If not, I can research other options for 6th grade.

 

Good point that I should have been thinking about high school math! I'm actually leaning toward Tablet Class right now. They do have a pre-algebra.

 

I do school year round. I really think, based on the 500 diagnostic, that we probably have 1/2 the 500 level material. So I plan to skip/shorten what we already know in 500 so we don't lose time/ground.

 

I'm hoping, given year round schooling gives me extra weeks, at least my strong math child could do one of the following:

a. finish 600 and important parts of 700  in 6th grade, with Prealgebra in another program for 7th.

b. finish 600-700-800 in 6th and 7th, moving to Algebra in 8th; I think this would be my ideal option, if CLE 700/800 can give us the prealgebra foundation we need.

 

I think I'm also ok with just doing the remainder of 5th and all of 6th with CLE and then switching. I'm really sick of trying to build review into our current program.  

 

[SnMomof7]

Yeah...sounds like a good plan. I really despise having to create review or add another program in to get it :). Have fun :).

[Sahamamama]

Just chiming in to say that I've read where some students who school year-round skip the first book of each level. So you could skip 501, 601, 701, and just keep working along. That might help you move through the units a bit faster.

 

I'm with Soror -- especially this week, I am hating the Horizons 4 TM. Just hating it. Honestly, it feels sometimes as though Horizons is simply problems, with very little instruction. The pages are so busy and crowded. Colorful was fine in Kindergarten, but this is 4th grade. Enough with the race cars, okay?

 

Even for my extremely conscientious and neat 4th grade girl, there is never enough space to solve the problems! If they would just stop putting STUPID CLIP ART OF PURPLE POPSICLES or COYOTES HOWLING AT THE MOON, then we might have room on the page to do the math.

 

Rant over. :banghead:  Sorry, it builds.

 

I, too, am looking at CLE Math. I wonder what level to start with?

[MeAndTheBoys]

Just chiming in to say that I've read where some students who school year-round skip the first book of each level. So you could skip 501, 601, 701, and just keep working along. That might help you move through the units a bit faster.

 

**Only the math is review in the first light unit.  PLEASE DON'T SKIP the first lightunit in other subjects :)  You'll be glad I told you that :)**

 

I, too, am looking at CLE Math. I wonder what level to start with?

 

**take the placement test on the CLE website--it's a free download**

 

B

[sbgrace]

I'm loving it!   I'm particularly appreciating that I can "teach" a concept to my inattentive one and know he'll keep getting exposure/reinforcement. If he doesn't entirely tune in to master initially, it's perfectly ok! He'll see it again tomorrow, and the day after that, and...this has been fantastic and really lowered the stress/pressure surrounding math. I didn't expect that. I worried about his tolerance for the length of lessons. It's been ok. There is good variety, and I cut unnecessary problems.  I'm also loving the drills (facts, measurements, etc.) too, especially for my one who is weaker in that area. I don't time it as it stresses him, but I can already see it's helping and it's painless.

 

I am adding some conceptual explanation to some topics, though it needed less than I expected.  It's been pretty easy with Education Unboxed, youtube (found a great video for teaching dividing fractions), etc.--much easier and more interesting than the frustrating chore of adding review to our previous program!

 

I'm feeling great about our switch.

 

 

I, too, am looking at CLE Math. I wonder what level to start with?

 

I used the placement tests. My son scored into his current grade level, but the test had a few geometry concepts that were new, and another he's had but forgot. I just taught and/or reviewed those concepts while we were waiting for our order. As a result, I was able to skip LU 1, even though we're new to CLE. I started at the beginning of our current grade because there were gaps in certain parts starting from the beginning, but I am going to be able to accelerate portions and finish 500 this year.

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm loving it!   I'm particularly appreciating that I can "teach" a concept to my inattentive one and know he'll keep getting exposure/reinforcement. If he doesn't entirely tune in to master initially, it's perfectly ok! He'll see it again tomorrow, and the day after that, and...this has been fantastic and really lowered the stress/pressure surrounding math. I didn't expect that. I worried about his tolerance for the length of lessons. It's been ok. There is good variety, and I cut unnecessary problems.  I'm also loving the drills (facts, measurements, etc.) too, especially for my one who is weaker in that area. I don't time it as it stresses him, but I can already see it's helping and it's painless.

 

I am adding some conceptual explanation to some topics, though it needed less than I expected.  It's been pretty easy with Education Unboxed, youtube (found a great video for teaching dividing fractions), etc.--much easier and more interesting than the frustrating chore of adding review to our previous program!

 

I'm feeling great about our switch.

 

 

I used the placement tests. My son scored into his current grade level, but the test had a few geometry concepts that were new, and another he's had but forgot. I just taught and/or reviewed those concepts while we were waiting for our order. As a result, I was able to skip LU 1, even though we're new to CLE. I started at the beginning of our current grade because there were gaps in certain parts starting from the beginning, but I am going to be able to accelerate portions and finish 500 this year.

:hurray:

[Sahamamama]

Just coming back in to say that we made the switch to CLE Math back in January. We are so glad we did. For us, for this student, CLE Math is much, much better than Horizons Math (I'm not saying Horizons Math is terrible, it was just getting on our nerves).

 

Next school year, for 3rd/3rd/5th, all three girls will be doing CLE Math. It's already on the shelf! :)

[sbgrace]

Just coming back in to say that we made the switch to CLE Math back in January. We are so glad we did. For us, for this student, CLE Math is much, much better than Horizons Math (I'm not saying Horizons Math is terrible, it was just getting on our nerves).

 

Next school year, for 3rd/3rd/5th, all three girls will be doing CLE Math. It's already on the shelf! :)

 

Yay! I'm glad it's working!

 

I guess I could update too. We're loving it. In fact, my math struggler/hater actually tells me he loves math now, and says it's not stressful anymore. I no longer dread math with him. The variety of problems every day keeps him from getting bored. We do split each lesson. He does 2 review pages while I get breakfast ready. I do the other page(s) of the lesson and speed/mastery drills together with him after breakfast. I never dreamed this child would be independent with math, let alone love it!

 

The spiral review and drills are beneficial for both kids. I go over new material with my math adept one the night before so he can work independently the next day. I do think the word problems are less challenging, so I kept Singapore FAN Math for both kids.

 

I already purchased the 600 level, and hope to start it in June (we skipped quizzes/tests and did math on any Saturdays we were home to accelerate).

[Sahamamama]

Yay! I'm glad it's working!

 

I guess I could update too. We're loving it. In fact, my math struggler/hater actually tells me he loves math now, and says it's not stressful anymore. I no longer dread math with him. The variety of problems every day keeps him from getting bored. We do split each lesson. He does 2 review pages while I get breakfast ready. I do the other page(s) of the lesson and speed/mastery drills together with him after breakfast. I never dreamed this child would be independent with math, let alone love it!

 

The spiral review and drills are beneficial for both kids. I go over new material with my math adept one the night before so he can work independently the next day. I do think the word problems are less challenging, so I kept Singapore FAN Math for both kids.

 

I already purchased the 600 level, and hope to start it in June (we skipped quizzes/tests and did math on any Saturdays we were home to accelerate).

 

That's kind of how we do it, more or less. I'll usually say, "Get started with the flash card drill and speed drill (she checks this herself), then do whatever part of the review you can without me, and when I'm done hanging up this load of laundry/chopping these vegetables/washing the dishes/cleaning the rabbit cages, I'll come and we can work together on the new concept(s)." LOL. Reality-in-Homeschooling. ;)

 

However, I do think my daughter enjoys this level of independence. It certainly hasn't been counter-productive to switch to CLE. I think we might try your idea to skip quizzes and tests, and to add in Saturdays. I like that.

[happycc]

How to combine the two? I have a rising 6th. We bounced math curriculums because it's been hard to figure out what works for her and our family. Since starting homeschooling we have had two births of children on the autistic spectrum and three moves. Anyways she needs spiral and mastery I have found. Our mastery is Math In Focus and our spiral is Cle. We just started CLE as we finished Math in focus course 1. She has some holes in math and based on her placement needed to backtrack her to 300. I'm trying to figure out a way to combine the two.

[happycc]

I'm thinking to do Cle 300 over summer ..see if it catches her up with her holes and then start mif course 2 in fall to prepare for our state testing:( . I really like mif . It makes a lot of sense but not enough spiral. I did not use teachers manual. You can use the free one online by the way . I just used the homeschool correction manual. We are skipping though a lot in Cle 301 as she has mastered a lot. Yeah . Looking to see if we can manage both next year.

[sbgrace]

How to combine the two? I have a rising 6th. We bounced math curriculums because it's been hard to figure out what works for her and our family. Since starting homeschooling we have had two births of children on the autistic spectrum and three moves. Anyways she needs spiral and mastery I have found. Our mastery is Math In Focus and our spiral is Cle. We just started CLE as we finished Math in focus course 1. She has some holes in math and based on her placement needed to backtrack her to 300. I'm trying to figure out a way to combine the two.

 

 

I'm thinking to do Cle 300 over summer ..see if it catches her up with her holes and then start mif course 2 in fall to prepare for our state testing:( . I really like mif . It makes a lot of sense but not enough spiral. I did not use teachers manual. You can use the free one online by the way . I just used the homeschool correction manual. We are skipping though a lot in Cle 301 as she has mastered a lot. Yeah . Looking to see if we can manage both next year.

Doing it over the summer is a great plan. I'm glad you're finding she's mastered a lot of 301!

 

MIF and CLE tend to line up well in terms of content. By that I mean my boys tested into CLE at grade level. I pulled out our Math in Focus 5b, just to see. We hadn't started that book, but are nearly done with CLE 500. With the exception of really basic probability, we've covered all of MIF 5 in this year's CLE. We're actually beyond MIF in a few areas. Better, I know they are retaining, and math is pleasant.

 

I don't think you need MIF. I think it will slow your progress without benefit. I don't think she'll retain as well, and I really think she'll cover enough in CLE. You'll also be able to catch her up faster if you use CLE alone. It's also more independent than MIF. Ideally, you will go over new material with her. You need to grade it/go over missed things. That's it, though. MIF required a lot more of me with both my kids.

 

That said, do use Singapore Process Skills books, maybe beginning with book 2. This will fill in the only major drawback with CLE compared to MIF (word problems) imo.

 

If conceptual (teaching why, not just how) is a major concern, Use free Education Unboxed (and AOPs when you get to upper levels) videos to teach the concepts behind things. CLE benefits from a bit of that. If they tell her to do something without telling her why it works, just look that up. Even if you don't do that, I think you'll find yourself in a better place with CLE than you are now. Math Mammoth topical might be a nice way to make sure you've got conceptual back up when needed in CLE, if the education unboxed doesn't feel like a good fit. I don't think you'll have to do it a lot.

[happycc]

Thank you