Want to possibly switch from MM...need suggestions

[daisylynn]

We have done MM for the past few years. All 3 of my kids (ages 10, 9, 7) are really good in math. They pick it up quickly. I feel like they do really well with MM. I like they way it teaches and that it isn't heavy on parent lead teacher, but rather helping them transition to reading/teaching themselves. I mean, I'm there to explain things and help when needed, but most of it is self-explanatory and I like that.

BUT...

My kids say they hate it :( It's a fight every day. They can do the work and do get through it. But they say they can't stand it. Now, I don't know if it's just because they don't like math or if it's because they don't like this particular curriculum. We did Abeka before this (ugh!) and they didn't like it either (well, my oldest didn't...my two younger ones were ok with it I suppose, they were still pretty young though.)

I liked that MM is mastery because I had read that was good. But now I'm reading that spiral is good. I'm actually quite confused. What really is the difference and is one superior??

My husband and I both LOVE math. It was our favorite subjects in school. I am a worksheet girl and could do them all day long. We never struggled in math, so I'm having a rough time with this. I don't want my kids to struggle either, especially if a curriculum change is all that is needed. But how do I know?!

Do any of you love MM?

If not MM, what do you like? I know we need something that is a bit challenging since they are all really good in math. I don't want something too easy or simple. I also want something that will teach them so well that when they are in high school there won't be any missing gaps (which is what I had read about spiral...don't know if that's true though.)

Every single year the math curriculum is what I struggle with the most. I spend months researching others and trying to figure out what to use. I almost switched last year and then decided to just print my daughter's out in color because she seems to need that (she's a creative!) She seems VERY happy about it. We'll be starting the colored pages after Christmas break and see if that makes a difference for her.

Oh! Also, with MM, I only make them do every other one and do 2 pages a day like that. Does that seem reasonable? They were overhwhelmed with having to do so much. If they get one wrong, we talk about it and then they have to do one of the skipped ones in place of it for extra practice. 

I just don't know what to do and really don't want to mess up their math education!! Please help!

Thanks!

[anabelneri]

I'm pretty fond of MEP. http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/ My older daughter has been using it for 5+ years.  We tried a little MM, and we've done some Right Start, and a little Life of Fred, but MEP has been great for her.  She generally does one page/day, and she loves that she knows she's done when she finishes that.  There is a part for the teacher to do each day too, to teach, but dd is a little mathy and doesn't need a lot of instruction; I'll check through the teacher pages periodically to catch her up on anything important, but for most of the week she carries on by herself.  This year I'm having her check her own work using the teacher's guide, which totally makes me feel like a slacker but it seems to be working for us.

 

Good luck with your search!

Anabel

 

 

[Farrar]

MM really worked for one of my boys... until it really didn't.

 

I would look at Singapore or Math in Focus since you say they get math quickly. I think MM is frustrating specifically for kids that get math quickly. It really - especially after a certain level - seems to treat kids like they don't get it by making them keep going back and doing these little "in between" sorts of steps all the time. It's also a lot of writing. You could also look at MEP - it's more outside the box, but very good. Some people will probably suggest Horizons or CLE, but I know less about those. Also, your kids could be the right stage for the Beast Academy books that are out now and those are specifically geared toward kids who are good at math.

 

Because you say they pick up math quickly, I wouldn't look at Teaching Textbooks (it's slower). And because they seem bogged down by the work, I wouldn't look at Saxon since it also has a lot of problems.

 

Whatever you choose, I'd think about doing something fun with math for a little while, like maybe some math projects or playing math games or living math books like the ones on the lists at livingmath.net or doing something sort of different like one of the Ed Zaccaro problem solving books. Just to try to get them to enjoy math again.

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, Math in Focus is a good program and might work well.  FWIW, I really like MM but MM did not work well for either of my kids (although I still pull it out for reinforcement at times).

 

Honestly, I love CLE math, too.  I really, really love CLE math.  Give the free placement tests and step back all the way to Level 100 for the placement  Make sure there are no gaps.  If there are, target those before starting in whatever level they test into. Instructions are to the student but the TM is helpful.  The program is not that expensive and is easy to accelerate or slow down as needed.  Just cross out or repeat as needed. Feel free to cross out a problem or two from each review section of each lesson if there are too many problems.  Easy to do.  There is a lot of spiral to this program, but the spiral is so tight that it almost ends up being spiral with mastery.  

 

And look at Soror's Relaxed Math thread for some great outside the box thinking on how to inspire some excitement and even possibly love of math...

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/499692-looking-to-do-some-relaxed-math-here-want-to-share-ideas/

[Dory]

Math in focus might be what you are looking for.

 

Just a suggestion with the MM. With my youngest I cross almost half the questions off and then supplement with Beast Academy when he gets ahead with MM. I also have Friday as math fun day and they do LoF and some math puzzles and games. It has appeased him. He still isn't a huge fan of MM, but he doesn't hate it now.

 

If you really want to switch though and your kids are good with MM, you probably don't want TT or MUS. Beast Academy, MiF, and Singapore are probably more of what you would want to look at.

 

 

My oldest enjoys CLE as a supplement.

[IsabelC]

I also found that MM worked better once I got a bit more courageous with crossing problems out. I used to feel that if in doubt, more practice was better, but now I don't hesitate to omit questions - or even whole lessons - if the kid clearly understands the topic thoroughly and doesn't seem to need more repetition. As a result, all the kids are working through the books much faster, so I can devote more sessions to 'for a change' stuff such as LoF, Murderous Maths, math-related stories, computer games, and so on. 

[Dory]

Any one single math curriculum can get tedious for a kid. Math is not exactly the most riveting, exciting subject in the lower grades (it does get better!). Switching sometimes just results in happiness for awhile because they are doing something different, and then a slow sink back into the dislike that they had before.

[Farrar]

I also suggest, if you want to stick with MM, crossing out problems or aiming to only do half - and if they get them right, skip the others. And/or you can try buddy math - you work one and talk out your method, then they work one. We did that often when ds was still doing MM. The large number of problems made it work well.

[Veritaserum]

My 10yo is mathy. She loves and hates MM. When I can tell she really gets something, we only do 2-3 problems from that section. We read every page, but don't always do problems from every page. We slow down when we hit something trickier. She's starting 5A next week. She didn't like CLE when we briefly tried that (I have other kids use CLE).

 

My 8yo just switched from CLE to MEP. She says MEP is more fun. It requires me to teach the lesson, though.

[daisylynn]

My 10yo is mathy. She loves and hates MM. When I can tell she really gets something, we only do 2-3 problems from that section. We read every page, but don't always do problems from every page. We slow down when we hit something trickier. She's starting 5A next week. She didn't like CLE when we briefly tried that (I have other kids use CLE).

 

My 8yo just switched from CLE to MEP. She says MEP is more fun. It requires me to teach the lesson, though.

I like the idea of just doing 2-3 when they really, really get it. My oldest rarely gets anything wrong and I think it's just overwhelming for her to do them, even though I cross out half of them. I may try it this way! Thanks!

 

For those who take a break here and there to do something more fun, how do you not fall behind? I like the idea of fun Fridays for Math, but worry that if I did that every week, that they would fall too far behind, with not doing that core math curriculum :/ How do you work around that?

[OneStepAtATime]

I like the idea of just doing 2-3 when they really, really get it. My oldest rarely gets anything wrong and I think it's just overwhelming for her to do them, even though I cross out half of them. I may try it this way! Thanks!

 

For those who take a break here and there to do something more fun, how do you not fall behind? I like the idea of fun Fridays for Math, but worry that if I did that every week, that they would fall too far behind, with not doing that core math curriculum :/ How do you work around that?

Math builds on itself.  If a child is really getting the material then just skip some of the review.  You might even be able to skip whole segments if they are really rock solid on concept and application.  On the flip side. if they are struggling, slow down, maybe hit it from a different angle.  Go at the pace that works best for your child.  

 

That being said, obviously you probably have end goals and material you plan for them to accomplish/master in a certain time frame.  I have found that if I lay out the hoped for schedule ahead of time, I have more flexibility in our lessons and don't tend to get as stressed and worried about pacing.  

 

Look at the pacing of the primary program you are using.  Start with the date you hope to finish that level.  Work backwards on a calendar, including any other breaks you intend to take.  See how it all lays out if you do 4 days a week and have Fridays for more "fun" math.  You may find you have more flexibility than you realized.  

 

FWIW, your children are still learning, even if the math they are doing is being done with a bit different approach.  In fact, they may learn much better and retain the material much more efficiently if you also give them the chance to see math from a different perspective, even if and maybe especially if it is something fun.  "Core" math can be approached from many angles.

[daisylynn]

Math builds on itself.  If a child is really getting the material then just skip some of the review.  You might even be able to skip whole segments if they are really rock solid on concept and application.  On the flip side. if they are struggling, slow down, maybe hit it from a different angle.  Go at the pace that works best for your child.  

 

That being said, obviously you probably have end goals and material you plan for them to accomplish/master in a certain time frame.  I have found that if I lay out the hoped for schedule ahead of time, I have more flexibility in our lessons and don't tend to get as stressed and worried about pacing.  

 

Look at the pacing of the primary program you are using.  Start with the date you hope to finish that level.  Work backwards on a calendar, including any other breaks you intend to take.  See how it all lays out if you do 4 days a week and have Fridays for more "fun" math.  You may find you have more flexibility than you realized.  

 

FWIW, your children are still learning, even if the math they are doing is being done with a bit different approach.  In fact, they may learn much better and retain the material much more efficiently if you also give them the chance to see math from a different perspective, even if and maybe especially if it is something fun.  "Core" math can be approached from many angles.

 

Great perspective here!! Thank you!!

 

I'm going to do that. I really want MM to work for them because I think it's a great program. I just may need to throw more "fun" days in there. I'll be looking at the calendar and the program to see what I can do. 

 

Thanks for all of the advice!

[OneStepAtATime]

Great perspective here!! Thank you!!

 

I'm going to do that. I really want MM to work for them because I think it's a great program. I just may need to throw more "fun" days in there. I'll be looking at the calendar and the program to see what I can do. 

 

Thanks for all of the advice!

Good luck and best wishes!  :)

[mommymonster]

My son totally despises MM, but he does really well with it. I copy problems into a notebook and have him do them in the notebook. We do about a page per day of the notebook, which equates to about two pages of MM. We also do living math, as well -- games, business math, and great mathematicians. I am sometimes concerned that it isn't enough problems, but at least we're doing math without tears.

[Farrar]

I've also found that doing "fun" math doesn't make us fall behind on math. Sometimes math takes longer... but that's okay. It's mostly time well spent. And if you compensate by letting them skip problems once they show mastery, then they're really moving at their own pace. If you do it for a year and you're behind, you can rethink, but I doubt you'll be behind.

[Dory]

I like the idea of just doing 2-3 when they really, really get it. My oldest rarely gets anything wrong and I think it's just overwhelming for her to do them, even though I cross out half of them. I may try it this way! Thanks!

 

For those who take a break here and there to do something more fun, how do you not fall behind? I like the idea of fun Fridays for Math, but worry that if I did that every week, that they would fall too far behind, with not doing that core math curriculum :/ How do you work around that?

 

Skipping so much because they already have it seems to leave us constantly ahead. Besides, it's not like they aren't working on their math skills while we are playing with something else for a little bit. They are still learning and often we end up able to skip a chunk out of MM because they already know that information. I know where they need to be in MM at certain points in the year, if they are significantly ahead, we take a break and play with our other maths (K'nex kits are also a fun math around here).

 

Doing it like that has us averaging about a year and a half of MM every school year.

 

They do 3 pages every day except Fridays, but they might only be doing 4 or 5 questions some days.

[IsabelC]

Yes, it's not difficult to 'keep up'. My 11yo with learning difficulties has gotten through 4A, 4B and 5A in half a year of intense work. We now have until the end of 2015 calendar year to complete 5B, 6A and 6B in order to meet my goal of having him "on grade level", hence the slowing down and aiming for a broader and more enjoyable experience. (Side note: ZOMG he was calculating averages FOR FUN in his bedroom during Quiet Time today! Hallelujah!) 

[maize]

We also cross out some problems on almost every page with MM. In addition, I don't assign three pages from the same section, rather I assign pages from different sections (say, one from multiplication, one from geometry, one from money or time). Keeps things more interesting.

[SnMomof7]

We moved from MM to CLE. We are SO happy :). It was pulling teeth to get 2 pages done, my children do the entire CLE lesson with no complaints. The layout is so much better :).

[Maela]

We do 1/3 to 1/2 the problems on each page. My dd complains about MM sometimes, but there are other times she talks about how much she likes math! I figure not every subject is going to be super fun all the time. We're sticking with MM because I love the way it teaches.

We also cross out some problems on almost every page with MM. In addition, I don't assign three pages from the same section, rather I assign pages from different sections (say, one from multiplication, one from geometry, one from money or time). Keeps things more interesting.

Good idea! I think I'll give that a try.

[4ofus]

I love MM. Lots. I credit it for a very solid elementary math education. Sometimes it was tedious, but, seriously, if math isn't your passion, I think all the books will sometimes be tedious. Math is something that the boys are not passionate about. They don't love MM, but it's b/c they don't love doing math. And that's okay. I didn't think there was a better option out there that would fit our family. I didn't want a lot of moving parts, I didn't want a script, I didn't want online, etc.

 

When they'd complain about MM I'd oblige them with Singapore CWP (bar model!) or LoF Fractions or something else for a while...they'd quickly request to return to MM.  I didn't mind mixing it up a bit using select quality materials. Eventually they decided MM was their "favorite" (haha) & quit complaining.  This method could also help me to uncover a curriculum that was possibly a better fit. It didn't turn out that way, but I was always open minded to the possibility.

 

I did just switch my 11yo to AoPS PA in October, not b/c MM was no good...but b/c MM was SO good...he was ready! AND I have to say, he is enjoying math much more (that is not to say that he enjoys it HA), but that MM gave him the necessary foundation & tools to be able to enjoy it. 

 

Good luck!

[MotherOfBoys]

We loved MM but we became bored with the style of the page. We switched to Beast for a break and I don't see us going back. It is so much fun. We play games together for "recess" and have very few problems per topic. If he doesn't get a topic as quick as they expect, I have MM to pull from but that hasn't happened yet. Math does review itself. For example, this week we started division which naturally includes multiplication, subtraction, and place value.

 

Other hits here are Murderous Maths for early readers, Verbal Math (library), Khan Academy (free online), Zaccaros (library)

[daisylynn]

Wow!! Thanks for all of the information and suggestions!! There is some great info here!