Pink Fairy Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 My 9yo dd is (secretly, I hope) making me crazy with this. The simplest problems confuse her. She constantly forgets how to do things, can't retain any math facts (even simple addition and subtraction), and just in general makes constant mistakes in every area of math. And strangely, she is actually advanced in her language arts, and she's not "slow" in any other area outside of math. She's definitely trying, and I feel so bad for her, but I don't know what else to do. Is there a learning disability that could cause something like this? Are there any math programs out there that are designed to deal with a student who struggles this way? We've used Saxon for K-1st, Scott Foresman for 2d-3rd, and I bought TT5 and ALEKS for her to use this year (with me by her side), but I'm open to new ideas, if anyone has some. I'm at my wits end, and I know she's frustrated too. It doesn't help that everyone else in the house is "mathie," so she feels like a dunce when they get it and she doesn't. Honestly, I'm almost in tears just putting all this into words. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shalom22 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I am right there with you. My dd has the same problem. I don't have any answers yet, hopefully someone will give some great advise like they usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 You may benefit from reading this article about teaching math to young students. Also, I highly recommend the book Taking the Frustration Out of Math by Mary Hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 My son has lots of trouble with maths, and just doesn't "get it" until he has had lots of repetition. And then he is just as likely to forget it. I did find out he is dyslexic, and I think it affects his maths more than anything nowadays. Yes, it can be a learning difficulty but I think you end up just using the same tactics whether you have label or not. Patience, lots of one on one, manipulatives, etc My son is 12 and I still have to help him every day with his maths. At 9, I was pulling my hair out. At 12, I just surrender and accept that this is what it takes, and be grateful for homeschooling, because he wouldn't get help in school. I wish I had been more patient and used more manipulatives, and not tried to finish the book in a year, and instead focused on mastery of the material. Kids like this need to feel success, so whatever it takes- going slow, doing less each day. Some kids thrive on mastery programs- programs that stay on one topic for a long time so that the kids really gets it before moving on. Others do better with spiral programs like Saxon, where little bits are given at a time while revision is constant so nothing is forgotten. There are programs that are a bit of both. Math-U-See is a program many parents find incredibly helpful for their math-challenged children. It is my next step if my son really can't manage the next level of the Australian program we are using. One thing I have accepted with my son is that he probably will only cope with, and need, up to a certain level of maths. he wants to be a business man, so I want to make sure he covers maths that is related to business- practical maths- especially, in his teenage years- and I probably won't take him on to more than basic algebra. For problems, one thing someone suggested to me that works well , is using a highlighter to mark the important parts of the problem. My son will nearly always misread problems and not actually realise what they are asking. A highlighter helps him focus and see what is being asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I don't have a math challenged child, but I have heard of 2 programs that seem to work well with math challenged children: Math-U-See - there is even a special ed part on the website and Making Math Meaningful - I have heard that this starts slowly and builds gradually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NevadaRabbit Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My 9yo dd is (secretly, I hope) making me crazy with this. The simplest problems confuse her. She constantly forgets how to do things, can't retain any math facts (even simple addition and subtraction), and just in general makes constant mistakes in every area of math. And strangely, she is actually advanced in her language arts, and she's not "slow" in any other area outside of math. :grouphug:This was us, a year ago. My 9yo dd had a horrible experience with public school math (a major factor in our decision to homeschool). She was confused, unable to remember basic math facts, and her confidence was just abysmal. This, despite her excellence in reading and spelling and writing, had me :banghead: and her :crying: every day. Last year we went back through alpha and beta of MathUSee to review, pushed ahead into single digit multiplication, and I am certain she understands the "how". But the errors persisted, the weeping continued, the general aversion seemed out of proportion. So I basically stopped doing a curriculum. I bought colorful workbooks that contain about 90% review. We have been playing math card games (Snap It Up) and board games (Math Dash) and handheld electronic math games and math hopscotch (big strip of brown wrapping paper numbered 1-12 and I sit and call out equations and the kids have to hop/crawl/bounce/whatever to the correct answer). I printed a bunch of blank math copywork pages and both kids are filling in math problems and reciting them daily. I just quit trying to push forward, shifted into neutral and we're hanging out right here until the weeping stops and the math facts settle in. It's been a lightbulb moment for me to realize my kids don't have to be pushing the edge of the envelope in every single subject. Like their milestones as babies, sometimes they didn't do anything new verbally while they grew by leaps and bounds in their motor skills. Hang in there. I hope what has helped us might help you too. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My oldest is not a "math kid," and when she was about that age (4th grade) we were getting nowhere. So I just backed up a little and slowed way down for awhile. She was doing R&S math at the time. She enjoyed doing math she found "easy" for a bit. Then, when she was about 12, something just clicked. She memorized all her facts within a month, and caught up quickly in math. :) No real help, but just saying it may be that your dd is just not ready yet either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 http://www.ldonline.org/article/13709 Not sure if anyone has posted a link to that... What is dyscalculia?Dyscalculia is a term referring to a wide range of life-long learning disabilities involving math. There is no single form of math disability, and difficulties vary from person to person and affect people differently in school and throughout life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 These replies and links have been awesome! How can I thank you all?! :hurray: I feel so much better just reading what everyone has said. I'm going to spend my free time today going through all the info and figuring out the best way to help my dd. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanainMA Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I have a dd like that, too. She excels in language arts, but math has always been a struggle. She took a huge leap in the 5th grade and made it to grade level in 6th. Patience works. She just developed differently in math than in other subjects. She will always have to work for it in math. We tried MUS once and it helped for awhile, but sometimes she was not ready to "master" the topic. She needed to come back to it later and move on to something else. MUS doesn't allow for that. You might want to think about how your daughter will respond to a mastery program. We tried Saxon in the 5th grade and I knew it was the right approach for her. She needed the constant review, but it didn't work because it was just SO much. Even though she was getting it, it was such a burden. I switched her to TT and it is a perfect fit. I wouldn't say she loves math now, but she never will. She can do it though and understand it. TT made math accessible to her. FYI, she did TT6 in the 6th grade and she scored in the 90th percentile on her standardized test. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathleen in VA Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 We tried Saxon in the 5th grade and I knew it was the right approach for her. She needed the constant review, but it didn't work because it was just SO much. Even though she was getting it, it was such a burden. I switched her to TT and it is a perfect fit. I wouldn't say she loves math now, but she never will. She can do it though and understand it. TT made math accessible to her. This was true for us too with ds12 - tried Saxon - too much work - using TT now and couldn't be more pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My 9yo dd is (secretly, I hope) making me crazy with this. The simplest problems confuse her. She constantly forgets how to do things, can't retain any math facts (even simple addition and subtraction), and just in general makes constant mistakes in every area of math. And strangely, she is actually advanced in her language arts, and she's not "slow" in any other area outside of math. She's definitely trying, and I feel so bad for her, but I don't know what else to do. Is there a learning disability that could cause something like this? Are there any math programs out there that are designed to deal with a student who struggles this way? We've used Saxon for K-1st, Scott Foresman for 2d-3rd, and I bought TT5 and ALEKS for her to use this year (with me by her side), but I'm open to new ideas, if anyone has some. I'm at my wits end, and I know she's frustrated too. It doesn't help that everyone else in the house is "mathie," so she feels like a dunce when they get it and she doesn't. Honestly, I'm almost in tears just putting all this into words. Thanks for any help. And I actually think I did. My only advice is to keep plugging away...where she is at...use every curriculum at that level until you start progressing and then you can figure out which one works well. I had to do this method with a few of my children with Phonics and early reading. The 5th program always works like a charm. :confused: Good Luck, Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm starting to feel like a parrot, but again I must recommend RightStart math. My daughter is JUST LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER. She is extremely advanced in anything to do with languages, but math is like a foreign language to her. Please look at RS math. We experienced a complete transformation within 6 months of using RS. She still forgets things and gets confused with simple things sometimes.. She always will... But she does understand math now and she enjoys it. We have a lot of fun doing RS together. I highly recommend it! http://www.alabacus.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Misty, Is RS something that can be started in the 4th grade? I get the feeling that some of these programs are very difficult to use if you try to start "in the middle," so to speak. Is RS like that? Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I noticed you mentioned ALEKS. I don't know if you've started with that yet, but my sil is doing that this year for her 9 year old son and they are loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRMomof2 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm starting to feel like a parrot, but again I must recommend RightStart math. My daughter is JUST LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER. She is extremely advanced in anything to do with languages, but math is like a foreign language to her. Please look at RS math. We experienced a complete transformation within 6 months of using RS. She still forgets things and gets confused with simple things sometimes.. She always will... But she does understand math now and she enjoys it. We have a lot of fun doing RS together. I highly recommend it! http://www.alabacus.com I've never heard of this program. Where would you start a third grader? Thanks in advance :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsch4me Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Constant review is a must - but not too much (easily overwhelmed). This is one reason why MUS didn't work - not enough review and was boring to her. I accept the fact, and have told her the same thing, that any new concept learned will most likely "sink in" after a few days. This means I need to remind, remind, remind her what to do and how to do it. Knowing this will happen has made it easier for me to be patient and for her to be patient with herself. It's just the way she learns. Reviewing math facts over the summer and starting some basic review (addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc.) a couple of weeks before we start school. I find that though I think she struggles with the basics at times, she does well in more advanced concepts - like fractions, percents, and loves geometry. So we review the basics daily, but we move on also. Finding the right math program. This was the ticket for us. We used TT Math 7 last year and what a difference that made. What I loved about the program for her is that on the CD it took one problem at a time. She wasn't looking at a whole page of problems - which can easily defeat her right away. Before she knew it she was done. About half way through the year she wanted to work from the book with some instruction from me. This worked beautifully because she moved to TT Pre-Algebra this year, which works mostly from the book. I certainly feel for you. I have a lot of patience with my dd because I learned just like she did in school - math made no sense to me. I remember in college that math finally made sense - the second time around. Just keep trudging through and know that you will probably need to sit with her for a few more years on this, gradually decreasing your time right next to her side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjssully Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 hi--My 9 year old daughter has similar problems, we are going to have her tested this year some time. I have decided to go back to the beginning with her and start with right start level b. it is very very easy for her so we are going through two lessons a day--but playing the games almost everyday, too. I am also doing a bit of supplementing with singapore. This has been very hard for me to do as all the other kids in the family love math and are very good!!!!It's hard on her, too. But rather than continue to push and make her feel even worse and "stupid", i have decided that the basics need to be in place before we move on. We have only used it for two weeks so i can't say how it's going to be but i do know it's been recommended many many times to me. I asked her last week if she would like to go back to saxon, mastering mathematics, or stick with right start and she said "abacus math" (that's what she calls it!!) There is a placement test you could take at their web site. hope this helps pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 A couple of people have asked about placement into RightStart... Yes, you can start "in the middle". I started my daughter when she was 8 years old. We started with level C and she did fine. She isn't exactly on grade level for her age, but that's okay with me. I would rather she has complete and total understanding before we move on. Children who do not truly understand math or know how to think mathematically (find patterns, strategies, etc.) will go on to fail at higher level maths. RS will give you TRUE understanding and will help your child develop strategies that will last a lifetime. Even I have relearned many concepts over the past few years. If you start in level C or higher, all you need to do is about 20 or so lessons in the Transitions book. If you purchase a starter kit (level C or higher) the Transitions book will come in your starter kit. You won't have to purchase it separately. If you start in level A or B then you don't need to do any Transition lessons and the Transitions book does not come in the level A or B starter kits. Someone asked where to place a 3rd grader. RightStart is not broken down by grades, but by levels. You will need to go to the website and answer the Starting Level Questionaire to determine placement for each child. You can also call the folks at RS and they are very helpful with determining placement. If you call on Tuesday, Angie answers the phone. She is a homeschooling mom who has been using the program for 7 years and she is very helpful and knowledgable. I worked with her at our convention this year. I hope I answered your questions.. I am not a rep, I just love the program and I think ALL children regardless of learning style can benefit from using it. It is a complete program that does not need any supplementing at all. Some people still choose to supplement with Singapore math though because they love Singapore and they have such good word problems. If you feel the need to supplement with Singapore, I would suggest using their Challenging Word Problems book. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Forgot to add that there is also a RightStart yahoo group that is very helpful... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RightStart/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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