SAT subject tests

[bettyandbob]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what subject tests dd should take. One university she is considering requires 2. We thought since you can take 3 at a time, she might as well.

 

We know one will be Math 2

 

We are considering physics. Is this set up for students who have had one year of physics or 2. dd is doing well in the first year of the IB physics sequence, so she feels a certain level of confidence with it. It's been 2 years since she took Biology and while she did OK in chemistry, her teacher was awful and dd has no confidence with that subject.

 

French non listening. dd is not considering being a language major, but has taken French for years and has good, grammar and reading skills. I only hear about people taking  the "with listening" language exams. Are the nonlistening exams worthwhile?

 

dd is really undecided about the degree she would like to pursue. (truly: thoughts range from materials science to linguistics to creative writing). We'll try to narrow down a little bit in the next year. Would taking the Literature exam be essential if you thought English was a possible major? Are there specific works you must have read for the exam. She has been reading and analyzing a variety of classic and modern literature, but I'm not sure how much would match test content.

 

 

 

 

[bettyandbob]

OK I found the answer in physics: one year of college preparatory physics, algebra and trigonometry and lab experience.

 

Now, I wondering whether to toss in a third exam and which one (Literature, French or one of the History exams)

[regentrude]

The Literature one is totally easy! The questions are similar to the English questions on the normal SAT, just a tad harder. DD aced it with no prep other than doing the one practice test in the blue book. You don't have to read specific works, since the test does  not really test any content - it's mainly about reading comprehension and bit is about identifying literary devices.

I don't think being an English major makes this test necessary.

 

DD did foreign language without listening. I have not seen any school that required the subject test to be a foreign language with listening. If it is just to satisfy the requirement of x subject tests, without listening works just fine.

 

 

 

[wordnerdjenn]

There are a LOT of literary devices you need to know for the Lit test, so I definitely recommend grabbing a review book if you decide to go that route (I personally like the McGraw-Hill series of Subject Test books...hard enough but not too hard!).  That being said, Lit is definitely the one that requires the least content knowledge.  If you're strong in reading comp and know your terms, it's not as hard as some of the others.  I'd also recommend she choose to do it last.  It's the "easiest" of the ones on your list, so save it for the time when her brain is a little fried :)

 

If you do decide to do the Physics, be sure she tries a practice test under timed conditions.  I've heard that it can be pretty challenging to get through it on time.

[MariaT]

Something to be aware of: My DS17 did the Lit test and the Bio on the same day when he was a sophomore. He aced the lit, not so good on the Bio-- his own fault, not enough studying. I tried to cancel the score, with the idea that he could try again. However, if you choose to cancel one test, the SAT people will cancel all the student's scores from that day. So if I cancelled Bio, I would also cancel Lit. We kept the scores as is. He never did go back to redo the test.

However, as we were compiling his records for his college apps this fall, we found that the Subject Tests allow you to select which scores to report to the colleges. So we could pick and choose his best scores.

Good luck on the testing!

Maria

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Something to be aware of: My DS17 did the Lit test and the Bio on the same day when he was a sophomore. He aced the lit, not so good on the Bio-- his own fault, not enough studying. I tried to cancel the score, with the idea that he could try again. However, if you choose to cancel one test, the SAT people will cancel all the student's scores from that day. So if I cancelled Bio, I would also cancel Lit. We kept the scores as is. He never did go back to redo the test.

However, as we were compiling his records for his college apps this fall, we found that the Subject Tests allow you to select which scores to report to the colleges. So we could pick and choose his best scores.

Good luck on the testing!

Maria

 

 

I just assumed you would need to show an entire test date.  Great info, thanks :)

[TeaTotaler]

Another thing to keep in mind is that many students take the SAT subject tests after having completed AP courses and the curve can be pretty brutal.  I think this is especially true for the Science subject tests.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Another thing to keep in mind is that many students take the SAT subject tests after having completed AP courses and the curve can be pretty brutal.  I think this is especially true for the Science subject tests.

 

 

 

Just to clarify....

The curve is brutal for the SAT sub tests or the AP Exam?  Then I should ask (to show my complete ignorance) does that mean the SAT sub tests are more difficult or the AP Exams???  I haven't really thought much about SAT subject tests.  I read that schools usually don't require them if you take the ACT and/or multiple AP Exams.    

[bettyandbob]

 I read that schools usually don't require them if you take the ACT and/or multiple AP Exams.    

 

You have to check with specific universities. One school on my dd's radar requires 2 subject tests. Another school said they like to see them. My dd attends public high school, but during general info sessions on tours, some said that for homeschooled students they want to see SAT 2 tests and/or AP exams. Each university seems to have different expectations. We are only investigating because of the one school requiring them.

[regentrude]

  I read that schools usually don't require them if you take the ACT and/or multiple AP Exams.    

 

That depends entirely on the school. It has been reported on these board repeatedly that some schools would NOT take the AP tests in lieu of the SAT subject test requirement and insisted on teh latter.

And yes, at some schools the ACT, usually WITH writing (which normally is optional), can stand in for the subject test requirement.

 

Ask the college.

And translate their language... if a highly selective school says "we encourage" it means "you better do this or else".

[dhudson]

My DS passed the Physics Subject Test after one year but it wasn't a spectacular score. He said he felt much more confident this weekend after having taken it a 2nd time and doing a more advanced Physics class for 4 months.

[KarenNC]

I'm conflicted about subject tests for my daughter. I don't know whether to go with subjects she'll do primarily at home, things she's good at, or try things like a math and science, since those seem  to be the most requested (but mostly by those planning to major in math or science). She has taken the ACT twice now and gotten extremely good scores in language, very good in science, decent in writing, and okay in math for her level of instruction (alg 1). Her likely path is humanities or social science (currently wants to do creative writing), but she's only 14, so that will likely change several times. I don't see her as being happy at an ultra-competitive school, and will probably need to go to somewhere that will give her a very good scholarship, but other than that, I don't know about any specific schools.

 

This year she will be taking bio with the local school system and Spanish 3 with an online provider (tutor from Harari College Worldwide). I was considering having her take the bio and Spanish SAT subject tests in June, but now her Girl Scout troop has a big district-wide camping event that weekend. Bio is likely to be her best science, and she's unlikely to take AP bio, though, she will likely do chemistry and either AP environmental science or intro bio at the local community college. She's unlikely to take any further Spanish, though she is interested in ASL (available at the community college when she's old enough) and possibly trying Latin this summer. Neither of these, however, are her strengths.

 

For other subject tests possibilities, I'm thinking of math 1 once she's further along in Saxon, primarily because it will be done entirely at home. She'll likely be doing AP psych next year, AP English and maybe APUSH later. She will be doing the ACT each year because it satisfies our state testing requirements.

[Muttichen]

Just to clarify....

The curve is brutal for the SAT sub tests or the AP Exam?  Then I should ask (to show my complete ignorance) does that mean the SAT sub tests are more difficult or the AP Exams???

The curve is brutal for the SAT subject tests, because only students applying to very selective schools are taking them.  Whether they are more difficult than APs or not depends on the test.  They are shorter and all multiple choice, but they may require more specific information (e.g., grammar on a foreign language exam).  You also need to be close to perfect to get a high score.  That said, if you are prepared for the AP, you can walk into most tests and do very well without a lot of extra prep.

[TeaTotaler]

Just to clarify....

The curve is brutal for the SAT sub tests or the AP Exam?  Then I should ask (to show my complete ignorance) does that mean the SAT sub tests are more difficult or the AP Exams???  I haven't really thought much about SAT subject tests.  I read that schools usually don't require them if you take the ACT and/or multiple AP Exams.    

 

Yes, as Muttichen posted the curve is brutal for the SAT subjects tests.  I can't get the link to work but you can Google "SAT subject test percentile ranks" and you can see the pdf that shows the PR for the different subjects.

 

HTH

 

 

[Hoggirl]

The curve is brutal for the SAT subject tests, because only students applying to very selective schools are taking them. Whether they are more difficult than APs or not depends on the test. They are shorter and all multiple choice, but they may require more specific information (e.g., grammar on a foreign language exam). You also need to be close to perfect to get a high score. That said, if you are prepared for the AP, you can walk into most tests and do very well without a lot of extra prep.

I agree with this 100%. I believe a perfect score of 800 on the Math 2 is the 85th percentile.

 

OP, what age is your dd? Do you live near a testing site? I ask because we started early on Subject Tests, and I am very glad we did. Ds did Math 2 at the end of his sophomore year, Chemistry at the end of his junior year (three days before the AP Chem exam), and Lit in the fall of his senior year. He only added Lit because one of his schools "recommended" three Subject Tests. I am glad he had it, however, to show breadth. I think if you have time, I might not try and take all three at one time. Yes, I know they are only an hour each and all multiple choice. Two might be okay, but I have heard that three is pretty draining. I have no experience with the foreign language tests.

 

As far as AP courses being good prep, I think this is generally true. Note that there is a wonky T/F section on the Chemistry Subject Test that might need some separate prep to become familiar with the format. Ds did well on his AP World History exam, but when doing a practice test for the World History Subject test, he did not do well, so we decided against that one. To be fair, it was six months (maybe longer??) or so after he had taken the AP World History exam. It seemed much more "factoid-ish" to me. Actually, when I checked his practice test I really got kinda ticked at him! I kept repeating, "We learned this in our homeschool before you fired me!" *I* could have done pretty well on it, I think!

 

Anyway, unless it is essential that you take them all at once, I would spread them out. Just my $0.02.

 

ETA: Maybe this link to the percentiles will work.

 

http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Subject-Tests-Percentile-Ranks-2012.pdf

[Muttichen]

 

Anyway, unless it is essential that you take them all at once, I would spread them out. Just my $0.02.

 

 

I agree that it's better to spread them out even though it is more expensive that way.  My dc were fine doing two at a time, but they were always too wiped out to do well on a third.

[regentrude]

I agree with this 100%. I believe a perfect score of 800 on the Math 2 is the 85th percentile.

 

This is actually NOT an indication that the curve is "brutal" , because the meaning of the percentiles is that 15% of test takers ARE able to get a perfect score if 800 is the 85th percentile (i.e. only 85% of test  takers perform below a perfect.)

The smaller the percentile corresponding to the 800, the HIGHER the portion of students to are able to achieve the perfect score.

A test where 800 corresponds to the 99th percentile has only 1%  of test takes manage a perfect.

[Hoggirl]

This is actually NOT an indication that the curve is "brutal" , because the meaning of the percentiles is that 15% of test takers ARE able to get a perfect score if 800 is the 85th percentile (i.e. only 85% of test takers perform below a perfect.)

The smaller the percentile corresponding to the 800, the HIGHER the portion of students to are able to achieve the perfect score.

A test where 800 corresponds to the 99th percentile has only 1% of test takes manage a perfect.

Yes, I get this. An 800 on the Lit exam is MUCH more impressive than an 800 on the Math 2 exam.

 

Our goal was to have all three test scores start with a "7." Ds did get the 800 on the Math 2, and he achieved the goal on the other two. Really a 720 on Math 2 is NOT a very good score percentile-wise, but it is on other exams. Our goal probably should have been based on percentiles, but one cannot even be in the 99th percentile on the math 2 test - which is why I think if that one is chosen, the student better rock it!!