Jacobs Algebra scheduling issues

[ColleenInWis]

Do any of you have tips on getting through Jacobs Elementary Algebra in 1 year?  Five of my six children struggled through it, mostly independently, and learned the material very well but never in a year's time.  The method is great, but it is so time-intensive.

 

Our sixth daughter is 9th grade now, and I had hoped to accomplish 4 lessons a week by having her do part of each lesson alone and part verbally with me.  Chapter 1, 9 lessons, took us so long that I decided to skip the Summary and Review so we could get to Ch. 2.  I'm thinking of only doing Summary/Review every third chapter or so for evaluation.  Any other ideas?  

[Lori D.]

My thoughts, FWIW:

 

First, I would not skip or rush if you have a student who needs a slower pace for the higher maths. Especially Algebra 1, which is foundational to all of the following high school maths. A student who rushes through Pre-Algebra and/or Algebra 1 is going to have increasing difficulties with the higher maths, take longer, and may have to go back and re-learn more basic Algebra concepts before being able to move on -- so, ultimately taking a lot longer

 

If you have a slower math learner (and it looks like it may run in the family), then just plan for it; take however much time it takes, do a solid job, and work into the summers or all summer-long, to finish math.

 

Or… It may just be this first unit of Jacobs is problematic for your student. Unit 1 takes foundational math concepts (functions, sets, etc.), and phrasing them in algebraic terms. Once you get into the actual algebra topics and algorithms in the later units, your student may "click" without any more troubles, and more naturally move at a more rapid pace.

 

Another thought: taking SO long on the first section, which is mostly a review of the basic math knowledge, but just expressed in Algebraic terms, may be an indication that either your student does not click with the teaching style of Jacobs and would be a better fit with a different program, OR, might need to spend a little time doing some remedial work to get solid with basic math functions and Pre-Algebra sorts of topics first, and then come back to the Algebra.

 

If you need something that involves less of your time, what about a weekly tutor? Or would one of the older siblings who has successfully completed Jacobs and "clicked" with it be available to help?

 

If a different program is the route to go, you might check out Teaching Textbooks. Very gentle, incremental, and every single problem is worked out, if the student needs to see that.

 

If a review is needed, you might look into doing the Keys to Algebra series first, or alongside Jacobs for a different view to help the concepts "click".

 

 

Finally, if it is the case that your student is getting the concepts, but just takes a long time to do the lesson, you could condense. Jacobs is laid out so that you do Set 1 and then EITHER Set 2 or Set 3 (they are the same set up, just different numbers, in case your student needs additional practice). Set 4 is an optional "challenger" problem.

 

Are you having DD do *every.single.problem* of each lesson? I would ONLY do that if she is really struggling with the concepts. If she is getting the concepts, she really only needs to be doing Set 1 and Set 2 OR Set 3, and some of the Set 4 challengers as bonus.

 

If she IS struggling, see how the next chapter goes -- it could be that just the first chapter was "wonky" to her, not having seen math expressed that way before.

 

Just trying to think through the scheduling:

 

Jacobs, 1st semester:

- 55 lessons

- 8 chapter reviews

- 8 chapter tests

- 1 midterm review

- 1 midterm test

73 total "days" of material

 

A typical school semester is 90 days -- that gives you 73 days to do all lessons and reviews and tests, plus another 17 "extra" days (about 1 day per week of the 18 week semester), for "spill over", if a lesson needs more time, or to do just 4 lessons per week.

 

It could be that your DD just needs more time to absorb the material, and 4 lessons a week is just too fast for her. In that case, definitely plan to go into the summer.

 

Jacobs, entire program:

-112 lessons

- 17 chapter reviews

- 17 chapter tests

- 2 midterm/final reviews

- 2 midterm/final tests

150 total "days" of material

 

+ 2 extra days per week to absorb material = 2x36 = 72

 

222 days (or, all of the 180-day school year + about 8 weeks of the summer)

 

 

Just brainstorming! BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Somewhere on this board is an email that someone shared from Mr. Jacobs himself on scheduling.  I'll see if I can find it.  Upshot is, that it was not intended to be done every single problem of every single set.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Bother.  It was for his Geometry.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/433742-jacobs-geometry-question/?hl=+jacobs%20+e#8208mail=

[ColleenInWis]

Finally, if it is the case that your student is getting the concepts, but just takes a long time to do the lesson, you could condense. Jacobs is laid out so that you do Set 1 and then EITHER Set 2 or Set 3 (they are the same set up, just different numbers, in case your student needs additional practice). Set 4 is an optional "challenger" problem.

 

Are you having DD do *every.single.problem* of each lesson? I would ONLY do that if she is really struggling with the concepts. If she is getting the concepts, she really only needs to be doing Set 1 and Set 2 OR Set 3, and some of the Set 4 challengers as bonus.

 

 

Just brainstorming! BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thanks, Lori, for the detailed reply.  I am looking for suggestions on how to condense the material.  We only do Set 1 and either Set 2 or 3, with Set 4 being optional.   How do other families get through the book in 1 year?  Or do they?  That's what I'm really asking.

 

My other children, except for one, took so long to get through the book because of our schedule (heavy focus on some competitive activities) and because of my disorganization.  I had really hoped that, with only one at home now, I could "organize us" through it more quickly!  Maybe that is going to take more thought on my part rather than expecting a question on a forum to solve it.  :/  

 

I am sensitive to how this dd learns--she has had a bit of math phobia, which I am learning to coach her through.  Once I told her that learning to write algebraic expressions is like translating a foreign language sentence, she started flourishing with it.  Language is her love, and she has quickly warmed to the fun of figuring out the language of algebra now.  

 

I'm not open, by the way, to the idea of changing texts.  Jacobs is what I know, and as I said, she has warmed greatly to the subject so I'm confident Jacobs can work for her.  So, again, how do other students get through Jacobs in 1 year?

[ColleenInWis]

Looking at the Callahan syllabus for Jacobs Algebra right now...  hmmm...

[ColleenInWis]

I notice Callahan doesn't assign the Summary/Review lesson for any of the chapters...  

[wapiti]

 I am looking for suggestions on how to condense the material.  We only do Set 1 and either Set 2 or 3, with Set 4 being optional.   How do other families get through the book in 1 year?  Or do they?  That's what I'm really asking.

 

My other children, except for one, took so long to get through the book because of our schedule (heavy focus on some competitive activities) and because of my disorganization.  I had really hoped that, with only one at home now, I could "organize us" through it more quickly! 

 

How much time per day for math?

 

Brainstorming on what might take extra long in the first chapter:  was the first chapter a lot of new material for your dd?  Is there too much handwriting?  Is the font too small/does it take long for her to read?  What did you use for prealgebra/middle school math?  Do you present the lesson or does she read it by herself?

 

I love that the set 2 exercises require some thinking and if thinking takes long, I'm ok with that, as long as it's productive and not confusion.  I haven't used the second half of the book yet, where it gets more difficult.  You'd have more experience there than most.  For the most part, I don't think the chapters in the first half should take more than one day per lesson (an hour or so?), maybe with a few exceptions, but maybe that's because most of those topics have been already familiar to my kids.

 

There may be some exercises she could get through faster by answering you orally.

[ColleenInWis]

I would be interested in opinions from anyone who has used the Callahan syllabus and tests without the teaching dvds.  Thanks.   

[Lori D.]

 I am looking for suggestions on how to condense the material.  We only do Set 1 and either Set 2 or 3, with Set 4 being optional.

 

Since DD is a bit fearful and perhaps not entirely solid with math, I'd be extremely careful about condensing. You could try dropping a few problems from Set 1 (the review) ONLY if you are 100% confident she is solid with the concepts there.

 

 

My other children, except for one, took so long to get through the book because of our schedule… I had really hoped that, with only one at home now, I could "organize us" through it more quickly! 

 

I am sensitive to how this dd learns--she has had a bit of math phobia, which I am learning to coach her through.  Once I told her that learning to write algebraic expressions is like translating a foreign language sentence, she started flourishing with it.  Language is her love, and she has quickly warmed to the fun of figuring out the language of algebra now.  

 

Colleen, it does sound like you have a special case with your DD, and that you are already seeing how to adapt Jacobs to work best for her. Yea! That is awesome! :)

 

Based on your additional information here, I would encourage you to stick with it for the reasons you cited, and just be prepared to "go year round" with math, to continue at the gentle rate that allows your DD great success. I love Wapiti's ideas in her post above. :) Some other ideas:

 

- Some chapters "click" better than others and will naturally go a little faster.

 

- Maybe sitting with DD more frequently, in the form of you doing your own work, but keeping her company and being nearby and available at any time she has a question. Having you available, in sight, as a sort of "mental security blanket" may be all she needs to be able to relax about math and speed up naturally.

 

- Perhaps try scheduling math as two shorter chunks (30-40 min. for reading through the informational portion and doing Set 2, and then later, 20-30 min. for Set 1 review), separated as a morning and then as an afternoon chunk may may it go more quickly overall, or allow you to cover more material in a day, and complete a lesson a day.

 

- Perhaps try scheduling the math as the very last subject of the day may make the math go more quickly and smoothly, as DD knows she doesn't have to save any of her "brain battery power" for any more school to follow. (Dianne Craft describes it as students having only a certain amount of battery power to use on school each day; if you do their struggle area first, you either use up all of their brain battery power for the day and they've got very little left for their other subjects, OR, they unconsciously realize they have to save some of that brain battery energy for the school subjects yet to come in the day, which means they hold back and can't give their "all" to the troublesome subject.)

 

It sounds like you are figuring out where your DD's limits are -- how much of a lesson she can absorb in a day, and what her limit is for math. The economics term "point of diminishing returns" comes into play here -- once you reach a student's limit as far as amount of material, or amount of time they can do a subject, there's no point in trying to push to do more; you just frustrate or overwhelm the student and they shut down. These students need to have a "tortoise" view of math -- slow and steady wins the math race for them. Yes, that usually means taking longer than a school year. BUT, it also means success, increased confidence, and actual learning all happens. :)

 

 

Jacobs is what I know, and as I said, she has warmed greatly to the subject so I'm confident Jacobs can work for her.  So, again, how do other students get through Jacobs in 1 year?

 

This may be something unique to your family. It sounds like you have strong verbal/language learners (that is awesome to know their strengths in high school so they have an idea of direction for college/career!) -- BUT, that frequently means they are not so immediately "mathy". Abstract, complex math (the high school maths) just WILL be absorbed at a slower pace for these students. Nothing wrong in taking longer than 1 year to get through high school math, if it means the student comes out the other end understanding it.

 

I have to say that I have not seen others posting on WTM indicating that they are having a problem in completing Jacobs in one year by scheduling Set 1, either Set 2 OR Set 3, and doing the occasional Set 4 as a bonus.

 

I have one "math minded" DS and one "math struggler" DS who esp. struggles with abstract math (such as Algebra). Both did Jacobs Algebra. Both DSs completed all of Jacobs in approximately 36 weeks of one school year, doing Set 1, either Set 2 OR 3, and Set 4 as optional bonus. (DS#1 finished in a little less than a school year, DS#2 took a little longer than a school year.)

 

My math struggler did not click as thoroughly with Jacobs as I felt was needed to have a strong foundation, so I had him do all of MUS Algebra 1 in the first semester of the following year -- so, 1.5 years to complete Algebra 1 (doing it twice). He later on did MUS Algebra 2; that was extremely rough for him, and took all school year AND all the following summer to complete it. That is just the reality for him -- math does not come easily or quickly for him, so we allot more time for completion. He also burns out/shuts down after 45-50 minutes; that is the max for him for being able to spend time on math in a day, so that's why we just planned on continuing math into the summers. I know a LOT of homeschoolers who go into the summers to finish different school subjects that didn't get completed, for a variety of reasons; math is the most frequent subject, and it is usually because the student needed to go at a slower pace in order to get it.

 

I understand entirely about going with what is working -- that was the reason we switched back to MUS for our DS, as it was the only thing that clicked for him, after we had been through numerous math programs in elementary. I thought his VSL learning style might click well with Jacobs, which I also think is more thorough than the "light" high school levels of MUS, but we found we really needed to stick with MUS. We also found moving math to the very last thing of the day REALLY helped him a lot -- he could relax knowing that nothing more academic was going to be required of him so he was free to use up the remaining "brain battery energy" on the math.

 

Hoping you and your DD find the pacing and scheduling that best work with DD's unique math learning timetable! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[sands31210]

I notice Callahan doesn't assign the Summary/Review lesson for any of the chapters...  

I believe Callahan schedules the summary/review lesson as quizzes.

 

I would be interested in opinions from anyone who has used the Callahan syllabus and tests without the teaching dvds.  Thanks.   

We are doing this now and so far it is working out fine. We are just starting Chapter 7 and I believe we will finish the course in May.So far we have not needed the DVD. I am confident in my algebra skills, but plan on using Khan if needed.

[EKS]

To get through Jacobs in one year--*present the material to your student* and then have him/her do the Set I and then Set II *or* III.  Be available for questions and clarifications.  It will make things go a lot faster.

[ColleenInWis]

So, what we've been doing is 45 min. of algebra 4 times a week together.  If we don't finish Sets 1 & 3 verbally, she is supposed to finish it later in the day.  Often, I find out late in the day that she got "stuck," so didn't finish.  Then the next day, rather than start a new lesson, we have to get her "unstuck."  Sometimes, I have time in the afternoon or evening to give her some help then.  She is needing less and less help, so maybe I just need to be patient and keep on.  Another idea that I saw in Callahan's syllabus is to make her responsible for checking and redoing her own work as part of each day's lesson.  She could sometimes get "unstuck" herself if she had access to the answers and was responsible for correcting her own errors.  I think.  

[wapiti]

In that case, it sounds like the problem isn't lesson length but rather some combination of your dd's accountability for finishing up the exercises as homework and your finding time to help at that point to the extent that she needs it.  (FWIW, I would expect total time spent on math for a ninth grader to be a lot more than 45 min 4x per week.)

[ColleenInWis]

(FWIW, I would expect total time spent on math for a ninth grader to be a lot more than 45 min 4x per week.)

 

I would, too, wapiti.  I scheduled the 45 min. as time for me to tutor her in algebra, then I expect that it will take her more time later to finish each assignment.  She also has time on the 5th day to finish the "homework," but we still aren't getting 4 lessons done a week.  Thanks for your input.

[Lori D.]

In that case, it sounds like the problem isn't lesson length but rather some combination of your dd's accountability for finishing up the exercises as homework and your finding time to help at that point to the extent that she needs it.  

 

Totally agree! :)

 

 

(FWIW, I would expect total time spent on math for a ninth grader to be a lot more than 45 min 4x per week.)

 

Depends on the student. Math strugglers may absolutely only have 45-60 minutes of ability to absorb math; more than that will just "bounce off" and be counter-productive. (That was certainly the case with DS#2 here, with mild LDs.)

 

High school courses, esp. Math, Science, English and Foreign Language, really require 5x/week. If the student can only go for a shorter, limited time on a subject (say, 45 minutes) and 5x/week is not getting the job done, you may need to school math 6x/week to finish within the school year. Or, go with 5x/week but plan on going on into the summer.

[EKS]

So, what we've been doing is 45 min. of algebra 4 times a week together.  If we don't finish Sets 1 & 3 verbally, she is supposed to finish it later in the day.  Often, I find out late in the day that she got "stuck," so didn't finish.  Then the next day, rather than start a new lesson, we have to get her "unstuck."  Sometimes, I have time in the afternoon or evening to give her some help then.  She is needing less and less help, so maybe I just need to be patient and keep on.  Another idea that I saw in Callahan's syllabus is to make her responsible for checking and redoing her own work as part of each day's lesson.  She could sometimes get "unstuck" herself if she had access to the answers and was responsible for correcting her own errors.  I think.  

 

Another thing I do to help things move along is we do the lesson and I have my student do a few practice problems on the whiteboard with me.  Then I move to the other side of the room and have him finish the problems.  I have the answer key with me (better yet, I understand that there is a solution manual now) and he checks his answers with me after each problem.  If the problem is wrong, he reworks it immediately, and if he still can't get it, I'll help him out.  Usually he sees his error pretty quickly.

[Chrysalis Academy]

One new thing we've done this year is to do math in a 30 min session (with a timer), then take a 10 min break, then do another 30 min session.  We got the idea from A Mind for Numbers: How to Excel in Math and Science (Even if you flunked Algebra!) which you both might really enjoy - we have gleaned many useful study skill ideas from this book.

 

The idea with the timer sessions is that you focus on the process - working with focus - rather than the product - finishing a lesson.  Then you get a little break - reward your brain for focusing for 30 min, but let it rest - and then you can focus again.  We've found that this method has made Shannon way more productive.  She's still on Ch. 1 of Jacobs, but she's had no trouble finishing the problems sets (Set 1, 3 and 4) in less than 60 min this way.

 

It does seem impossible to do the whole book in a 36-week school year if you are doing 4 lessons a week - looking at Lori's schedule above, 150 days of work divided by 4 days a week is 37.5 weeks, even if everything goes perfectly and you do a new lesson every day.  So to address your specific question, if my goal was to get through it in a year, I would be planning to do new lessons 5 days a week, not 4.  That's only 30 weeks, that gives you 6 "extra" weeks a year for reviewing, longer lessons, etc.

[wapiti]

Depends on the student. Math strugglers may absolutely only have 45-60 minutes of ability to absorb math; more than that will just "bounce off" and be counter-productive. (That was certainly the case with DS#2 here, with mild LDs.)

 

High school courses, esp. Math, Science, English and Foreign Language, really require 5x/week. If the student can only go for a shorter, limited time on a subject (say, 45 minutes) and 5x/week is not getting the job done, you may need to school math 6x/week to finish within the school year. Or, go with 5x/week but plan on going on into the summer.

Yes, I was mainly thinking of students in B&M school who often have, say, a 45-minute class followed by 30 or more minutes of homework such that the total math time is broken up into two chunks.

 

I can't come up with a good reason to only do math 4 days per week at the high school level (if there's an activity in the way, then there should be a weekend day, etc.).

[ColleenInWis]

Another thing I do to help things move along is we do the lesson and I have my student do a few practice problems on the whiteboard with me.  Then I move to the other side of the room and have him finish the problems.  I have the answer key with me (better yet, I understand that there is a solution manual now) and he checks his answers with me after each problem.  If the problem is wrong, he reworks it immediately, and if he still can't get it, I'll help him out.  Usually he sees his error pretty quickly.

 

Yes, very similar to what we have done a number of times this semester.  I can work in the kitchen with the answer key open on the counter and she sits in the living room, within earshot.  

 

It just seems such a struggle to be consistent with getting a lesson done every single day, and so easy to fall behind and get discouraged.  Not to mention the other subjects we are tackling, and music lessons out-of-town that take up a whole afternoon each week.  I don't mind having to work on school in the summer, but I am searching for ways to work smarter--get more done in a shorter amount of time.  The more I let things drag out, the more we slip into a pattern of just not accomplishing goals each week.    

 

Thanks for commenting, everyone.  Discussion helps me sort out the issue.  

[wapiti]

More thoughts:  I would say that if there's an entire afternoon or day given to an activity, the schoolwork that would otherwise have been accomplished should be rescheduled someplace else during the week (evenings, weekend).  That's just the price of participating in the activity.

 

Do you give her a schedule for the week (or better yet, have her help you make it), such as a spreadsheet or daily list of items to be accomplished?  If things are sliding by, then either (1) you're scheduling more than you find you can accomplish in a particular time period, or (2) she is not being diligent in getting her homework finished.

 

Thinking out loud some more, if there were any subject for which I'd even consider only 4 days per week, math would definitely not be it.  By the nature of the subject, building on itself, it would have a certain priority for me.  There might be a smitch more leeway in other subjects, but I don't know enough about high school level scope and sequences in the other subjects to offer suggestions.

 

Music sounds like the top priority for her, no?  Lots of practice time?  I would sit down with her and a spreadsheet of the waking hours of the day for the week and lay out what needs to be accomplished.  If she is dawdling at various points, maybe now that she's a high school student, she needs to take more ownership of this process of becoming more efficient in getting things done, taking on initiative herself to meet her own goals/priorities (e.g. the music).

[Elisabet1]

We took longer than a year for it, and did Keys to at the same time. In the end, my children have gone in to STEM based careers, so I am happy to have gone this route. I would rather work weekends and summers than have a weak math background. Maybe up the amount of time. Maybe have two math "classes" a day. 

[ColleenInWis]

More thoughts:  I would say that if there's an entire afternoon or day given to an activity, the schoolwork that would otherwise have been accomplished should be rescheduled someplace else during the week (evenings, weekend).  That's just the price of participating in the activity.

 

Do you give her a schedule for the week (or better yet, have her help you make it), such as a spreadsheet or daily list of items to be accomplished?  If things are sliding by, then either (1) you're scheduling more than you find you can accomplish in a particular time period, or (2) she is not being diligent in getting her homework finished.

 

Thinking out loud some more, if there were any subject for which I'd even consider only 4 days per week, math would definitely not be it.  By the nature of the subject, building on itself, it would have a certain priority for me.  There might be a smitch more leeway in other subjects, but I don't know enough about high school level scope and sequences in the other subjects to offer suggestions.

 

Music sounds like the top priority for her, no?  Lots of practice time?  I would sit down with her and a spreadsheet of the waking hours of the day for the week and lay out what needs to be accomplished.  If she is dawdling at various points, maybe now that she's a high school student, she needs to take more ownership of this process of becoming more efficient in getting things done, taking on initiative herself to meet her own goals/priorities (e.g. the music).

 

Your advice is very sound, and I appreciate the time you, wapiti, and others have given to the topic.  It's made me get serious about some of the accountability issues that are playing into this.  Thank you!

 

Warning:  I am going to get philosophical now!   Sorry--but you've all been warned, so feel free to stop reading at this point!  ;)  I feel I should let those who have put so much thought into gracious replies know "where I'm at," rather than just dropping the thread.  

 

After home-educating for 23 years, I can say that I have learned that I cannot always reach the ideal.  In fact, sometimes other values take precedence over the ideal.  Two of my values that are pushing me to want to finish Jacob in one year are:  1) the desire to do 3 years' math in 3 years so that dd will have time for a 4th year of math OR another course that would benefit her; 2) the desire to set a schedule and stick to it, to counteract too many times in the past when I have allowed courses to drag on for one reason or another (some were probably good reasons, but still discouraging even though things "turn out").  

 

I'm not opposed to working in the summer--we usually do.  But I have had 5 students go through Jacobs doing all the problems from Sets 1 & 3, and I don't value the thoroughness that resulted as much as I value my daughter also having time for her music, her dreaming, her art, and the other high school courses I have planned for her.  My experience is that the early concepts of algebra will be strengthened in later chapters and in algebra 2, so I find it hard to worry about providing a solid foundation.  For now, we will take it day by day, finding our way to enough practice without falling into the trap of letting a lesson drag out over 3 or more days.  I think I will know if comprehension is suffering--I will continue to work with her on every lesson except perhaps letting her start a new lesson on her own when she gets more confident and disciplined.    

 

I've been influence by a great community of unschoolers here in Wisconsin as much as I have been influenced by any classical model of education.  There is great value in individualizing a high school education, and I neglected that with several of my students, so that is another value I'm reaching for.  It's a balancing act, and again, I thank each one here who has helped me get a fresh perspective on what my goals are.