Ebola...again

[gardenmom5]

a Nigerian woman in Italy has been hospitalized and is being tested.  she recently returned from a visit there.

[PrincessMommy]

According to _Spillover_ the horror stuff described in _Hot Zone_ is not really accurate.

 

Interesting.  Thank you.

[Katy]

I think the distinction between airborne and droplet is causing a lot of confusion for laypeople. The CDC says it's not airborne, and people interpret that to mean it can't be spread through anything but direct contact, and that the CDC must be lying if it's spread through droplets, when they're actually using technical terms correctly.

 

Yeah, and the confusing thing is that whether something is droplet or airborne is calculated mathematically by the mass of the virus and mathematical models of how long a particle the size of the virus can hang in the air in various sorts of humidity.  Recently a study was done (I think on the flu virus), and it was found that the math was incorrect, that droplets hang in the air for two or three times further than previously calculated. Airborne particles (tuberculosis is one) are so light that they can float in the air nearly indefinitely - hence separated, negative-pressure isolation rooms and everyone in a hospital nursing staff having gas masks to work in those rooms.

[Katy]

Here's a blog post by someone who lives in Senegal that you might be interested in:  http://senegaldaily.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/ebola-speaking-out-against-fear/

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

So....the big question is how does this apply to those of us with good healthcare and hygiene and access to supplies and medicines that are not available in places like Liberia, Sierra Leone, etc.?

 

I'm not concerned. Not concerned isn't the same as dismissing it because it doesn't affect me. Not being concerned means I've evaluated the information and I understand that the likelihood of having it affect me is extremely low.

 

I am concerned and saddened for those who are affected.

 

As for why I'm not concerned about an outbreak here or in other westernized countries, see below.

 

 

It isn't just our healthcare that makes first world countries deal with something like that better. Superstitions, eating certain animals such as rodents or non-human primates, or just certain traditions such as touching the dead, even though they died of an infectious disease, make other countries more vulnerable. I don't think most Americans would eat a bat but in the middle of a huge Ebola outbreak they banned eating bats because bats carry the illness.

 

I think we all realize even when a country attempts to ban something that is traditional there are plenty of people who are "my mom fed me Ebola-laden fruit bats and I was fine" and so they just keep doing what they were doing.

 

 

one of the *biggest* problems for contagion in Africa are funeral customs.  touching the body is very much part of the traditions - even if that person is covered in their own bodily fluids which contain a highly dangerous pathogen. 

 

there is also distrust of medical facilities - and there are many reported cases of families hiding their ill loved one (and they all eventually also get sick), or even going to far as to remove them from medical facilities.

people take taxis to get treated, throw up in it, but it is not decontaminated so the *next* person to ride in it is exposed.

those are just a few of the reasons this is spreading so badly.

 

 

The above are the reasons why I'm not concerned. It's about more than just modern health facilities. It's about knowledge of modern health care. Can you imagine someone in quarantine for ebola in the U.S. having a loved one run in, grab them, and run out? Or someone with ebola trying to escape quarantine? That just wouldn't happen here, mostly because we understand the seriousness of the illness. There have been rumors spread that the government or foreigners (take your pick) have actually given people ebola. In a town in Sierra Leone people tried to burn down a treatment center that they believed was responsible for giving people the virus. People think isolation is where you go to die. They don't necessarily believe it's for the good of the community as well as the patient. There are all kinds of home remedies that are supposed to cure ebola, that people try instead of seeking true medical treatment. These are not unlike home remedies we have for various ailments, but with much deadlier consequences.

 

So, no I'm not concerned. We humans have a tendency to fear the things that are catastrophic but unlikely, while ignoring what is likely. (Mine is an unhealthy fear of flying, yet I'll get in my car every day without thinking twice. Of course I know I'm more likely to be in a car accident than a plane crash.) I agree with those who say we should worry about the current virus and the upcoming flu season more than an ebola pandemic.

[gardenmom5]

Can you imagine someone in quarantine for ebola in the U.S. having a loved one run in, grab them, and run out? Or someone with ebola trying to escape quarantine? That just wouldn't happen here, mostly because we understand the seriousness of the illness. There have been rumors spread that the government or foreigners (take your pick) have actually given people ebola. .

 

actually, I can.  because there are people who have done similar things. IN THE U.S.  (the percentage is low, but not unprecedented by any stretch).  you will still find pockets in the US of people who think the US government is responsible for creating aids.  and *deliberately* setting it loose upon the population.

I'm hoping these aren't serious - but just yesterday I read a few comments about how the US government is responsible for the respiratory virus currently making the rounds in the mid-west. . . . :svengo: )  about the only thing I could say was "make sure your tinfoil hat fits tight."

[Slartibartfast]

I definitely don't dispute that, however, it has been shown through this outbreak that it IS easy to spread person to person, if it weren't, people wouldn't be wearing hazmat suits (or the like) to treat these patients. They wouldn't be getting sprayed with bleach upon leaving the treatment area. I do believe many have gotten it from contaminated food, and/or exposure to dead animals, but it is spreading like wildfire, and many articles have conflicting information, like stated by the OP.

 

Some of the articles have been honest in stating they really don't have extensive research on Ebola. I appreciate that honesty, because I do believe that to be true.

 

If someone is at that level of illness they are going to be more likely top spread the illness. It spreads via bodily fluids so a virus that causes bleeding sores, vomiting, and diarrhea does require hazmat suits for the medical professionals. Medical professionals are usually hit hard. Medical professionals are more at risk because they are cleaning up bodily fluids, their patients are oozing blood.

 

But the random person on the street is less likely to encounter a person at that stage of the illness, a person that sick is laying on the ground, they are not walking around at Target buying Cheezits.

 

Bush meat is still a major source of protein for some areas, it is impossible to discern who is getting ill from bush meat and who is getting ill from another person. Smoked meat is going to be safer but as the article I posted stated, people do sell raw bush meat which could very well be contaminated with the virus. One of the articles I posted mentions people just coming across a dead chimpanzee and then feeding it to people. 

 

Bats are a MAJOR carrier of Ebola and it is also a source of protein in the region.

[Lady Florida.]

actually, I can.  because there are people who have done similar things. IN THE U.S.  (the percentage is low, but not unprecedented by any stretch).  you will still find pockets in the US of people who think the US government is responsible for creating aids.  and *deliberately* setting it loose upon the population.

I'm hoping these aren't serious - but just yesterday I read a few comments about how the US government is responsible for the respiratory virus currently making the rounds in the mid-west. . . . :svengo: )  about the only thing I could say was "make sure your tinfoil hat fits tight."

 

Yes, but they are the exception. In fact it's so uncommon that it often makes the news when it happens. In many of the countries in Africa that are currently dealing with Ebola, it's a common occurrence, therefore one of the problems that those countries are facing would be nearly non-existent here.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, and the confusing thing is that whether something is droplet or airborne is calculated mathematically by the mass of the virus and mathematical models of how long a particle the size of the virus can hang in the air in various sorts of humidity.  Recently a study was done (I think on the flu virus), and it was found that the math was incorrect, that droplets hang in the air for two or three times further than previously calculated. Airborne particles (tuberculosis is one) are so light that they can float in the air nearly indefinitely - hence separated, negative-pressure isolation rooms and everyone in a hospital nursing staff having gas masks to work in those rooms.

 

 

I posted this article previously,

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/10/5980553/ebola-outbreak-virus-aerosol-airborne-pigs-monkeys

 

The Ebola virus attacks primates in the liver.

 

If an Ebola laden pig coughs on you then that is a different story because pigs carry Ebola in their lungs.

 

It isn't just a matter of calculating droplets but that different species are impacted differently.

 

 

But Ebola affects primates in a different way, Weingartl says. For them, "the main target organ is the liver, so they have high amounts of the virus in the blood and in the feces. They will not be coughing out the virus. And that’s why indirect transmission without contact is probably not happening [among primates and humans]."[/size]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/09/03/can-ebola-go-airborne/

 

 

 

To be spread through the air, it also generally helps if the virus is concentrated in the lungs of affected patients. For humans, this is not the case. Ebola generally isn’t an infection of the lungs. The main organ that the virus targets is the liver. That is why patients stricken with Ebola develop very high amounts of the virus in the blood and in the feces, and not in their respiratory secretions.

That isn't to say it would be impossible to say that one could absolutely not contract the Ebola virus via airborne particles but that it is unlikely. A medical professional ought to use appropriate protection but the average person probably would not contract it in such a manner.

[Katy]

 

 

 

 

That isn't to say it would be impossible to say that one could absolutely not contract the Ebola virus via airborne particles but that it is unlikely. A medical professional ought to use appropriate protection but the average person probably would not contract it in such a manner.

 

I explained the difference between airborne and droplets earlier in the thread.

Droplets hang in the air when someone has diarrhea, or when they flush the toilet.  They can only hang in the air for a certain distance, not indefinitely.

[Slartibartfast]

I explained the difference between airborne and droplets earlier in the thread.

Droplets hang in the air when someone has diarrhea, or when they flush the toilet. They can only hang in the air for a certain distance, not indefinitely.

Since you mentioned TB I thought you were referring to airborne particles from a cough, my apologies.

 

 

I agree but bleach kills Ebola, toilets are typically cleaned with bleach. If the toilets have bleach tablets in them what would that do?

 

It seems one of the greatest areas of risk of transmission in the US would be the public restroom but what could custodians of public restrooms do to reduce hose risks?

[acsnmama]

I believe that Ebola 'could' become a problem anywhere is what I meant in previous posts. In more modern countries, rather than 3rd world countries, it's highly unlikely. Ebola patients don't just drop to the ground, the severity of symptoms varies, as does time period for it to be so bad they cannot stand up. So like any illness that is caught in the same manner as Ebola, can be left undetected for a short time. Person gets up feeling fine, but starts a fever, and assumes they simply have a case of the flu or the stomach bug. We aren't infallible, we have our own diseases that go around person to person because people chose not to stay home from public places when they're not feeling well. Since Ebola is unlikely to become a problem here in the USA, it's likely that IF someone were to have it, it would be easily assumed that it was a typical illness, until it were to get out of control.