Abeka or OPGTR for phonics

[cam112198]

I taught my dd12 to read using Abeka.  I wanted a change for ds9 and dd8, so I used OPGTR.  I am now trying to decide what to use to teach dd4 to read.  My daughter that used Abeka seems to be a stronger reader.  When she was 8 and 9, she was reading better than they are now.  I realize that it could just be her, but it makes me wonder if I should go back to Abeka.  What are your thoughts?

 

What should I do to increase reading fluency for my ds9 and dd8? 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

If you already have both, I would choose A Beka of those two choices.  A Beka has very strong phonics.  It is more complex as it is written more for a classroom, but it is more rules based and stronger in its phonics review, imho.  You can adapt it so it's not too much busywork, but its rules-based charts really work well.  It does create strong readers and, in turn, great spellers.  I think A Beka phonics is its strongest product.

 

We also love Sing, Spell, Read, Write, but there's no sense reinvesting in a new program if you have A Beka on the shelves.  

[cam112198]

Thank you so much!!!  I really appreciate your opinion.  

 

What would you do for 3rd and 4th grader that may need more phonics? What readers would you use for 3rd and 4th grader?  

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I am less able to answer this, but at that age (unless they are really struggling with reading) I would try to focus on the phonics rules through a spelling curriculum more.  I hear good things about All About Spelling, but I have no personal experience with it.  Once the child is reading, I tend to just switch to reading books vs. "readers."  My oldest is a natural speller and reads very well, so I haven't had those gaps in an older child before.  I don't know if you already have A Beka readers or not.  If so, you can use those even.  Take stock on what you have.  You can even get McGuffey readers free online.  

[Peaceful Isle]

Thank you so much!!! I really appreciate your opinion.

 

What would you do for 3rd and 4th grader that may need more phonics? What readers would you use for 3rd and 4th grader?

 

Bju phonics reviews :) https://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=5&category=904

[cam112198]

I am less able to answer this, but at that age (unless they are really struggling with reading) I would try to focus on the phonics rules through a spelling curriculum more.  I hear good things about All About Spelling, but I have no personal experience with it.  Once the child is reading, I tend to just switch to reading books vs. "readers."  My oldest is a natural speller and reads very well, so I haven't had those gaps in an older child before.  I don't know if you already have A Beka readers or not.  If so, you can use those even.  Take stock on what you have.  You can even get McGuffey readers free online.  

 

I have AAS.  I used it with my oldest when she finished the Abeka phonics.  I love AAS, but now that I am homeschooling 4 I've had a hard time making it happen around here.  I do think it would probably be wise.  I don't have the Abeka readers, but I do have Pathway readers for grade 4.  That might work for my son.  For my daughter, I might try to find some 3rd grade readers.  

Bju phonics reviews :) https://www.rainbowresource.com/prodlist.php?subject=5&category=904

That looks good!  Thanks for the suggestion.  

[Sahamamama]

I used OPG for my oldest daughter, until someone gave us Abeka Phonics. We tried it, but there were so many parts! I had 3 year old twins then, so for me it was too much. I preferred the open-and-go approach of OPG. My daughter was happier with it. She quickly grew to be a very strong reader. At 9.5 (4th), she tests at a high school reading level and reads all the time with enjoyment. I'm happy with that.

 

One thing I did with her was to finish ALL the lessons in OPG, even after she took off in reading. Her reading was "past" the lesson, but we kept working through them. I think this helped to solidify some things. Right around then, we started AAS (1--4 so far), so that was more phonics review. Another thing we did was to go back (at the beginning of 2nd grade, I think?) and review the final 30 or so lessons of OPG, especially those that break down those long words. She still talks about the "electrifying hippopotamuses," or whatever is in there.

 

With my twins, there was no way I was going to use Abeka. That would have been like trying to teach reading with 1,000 little slips of paper on a Tilt-a-Whirl in a tornado during hurricane season. OPG doesn't require the particular kind of patience that I lack. The slow and plodding kind of patience, where you open a book and do a lesson, I have that kind. But the kind where you find and use 20 little cards at the appropriate place in the lesson, then find and use 30 little pieces of some game I don't want to play, then find and use a cassette tape, and a book, and a teacher manual -- just kill me. Abeka may be updated now and different from what was given to me years ago (it was an old version then). I don't know, I just could not use it.

 

We used OPG for them, too. It worked well, even with twins. I just kept different colored bookmarks in the book and moved them up, lesson by lesson. Both girls, 7.5 (2nd), are reading very well, but I haven't tested them yet.

 

As for reading fluency, I think the best thing we've done and still do is Guided Reading. That is, the student, even after finishing phonics, reads aloud to me. We use McGuffey's (we skip the Dead Mother stories and overly preaching pieces), Classics for Young Readers (K--12), and plenty of library books (Mr. Putter and Tabby series, Frog & Toad, Poppleton series, Little Bear series, Henry & Mudge, Jonathan James series, other easy readers that they choose at the library).

 

After finishing OPG, these books were a bit on the "easy" side of things for my kids, but they were practicing reading aloud with fluency. Sometimes we would re-read a passage, or read it together. Sometimes, if they didn't get the pronunciation or rhythm right, I would read the passage, then say, "Try it like that." If their voices were robotic, I would read dramatically, then ask them to do the same. Sometimes we would talk about what the characters were doing, what we thought about the story, and had we ever done what the characters did? (comprehension). Sometimes, for longer books, I'd ask the child to tell me, "Where are we in this story?" (summarizing/narration). We talked about definitions of words and expressions, explained unfamiliar concepts, and answered questions. We talked about author & illustrator, and learned about the parts of a book.

 

They're doing Guided Reading this year, reading aloud to me a few times each week. The 4th grader will choose her own material to read to me, but she has to include non-fiction (tougher stuff from science and history), not just stories. My 2nd graders are doing McGuffey's 3rd and K--12 Classics, Volume 3A. We also read the Bible together. Each person has her own Bible. We sit around the table and read four verses each, in turn. This also helps to build reading fluency.

 

It's surprising what comes up in Guided Reading. The things I've learned about what my child does or does not know! We still laugh about how Crash read "Open Sesame" as "Open Suh-SAME." She also thought that Yosemite was pronounced "YOZE-mite." By having the student read aloud to the parent, the parent knows what's going on inside those heads. With Guided Reading, there's a place for an adult to explain stories and talk about words one-on-one. 

 

We listen to a ton of audiobooks. I think this builds fluency, too, because they hear so much wonderful vocabulary and the rhythm of English. It also saves my voice from having to read aloud so much! HTH.

 

http://www.greathall.com/storytelling.html

 

http://www.yourstoryhour.org/store/?post_type=product&paged=2

 

http://www.tantor.com/BookDetail.asp?Product=0842_AnneGreenRevised

 

 

 

 

[cam112198]

 

 

They're doing Guided Reading this year, reading aloud to me a few times each week. The 4th grader will choose her own material to read to me, but she has to include non-fiction (tougher stuff from science and history), not just stories. My 2nd graders are doing McGuffey's 3rd and K--12 Classics, Volume 3A. We also read the Bible together. Each person has her own Bible. We sit around the table and read four verses each, in turn. This also helps to build reading fluency.

 

 

 

Wow!  Thank you, Sahamamama, for your detailed response!!!  That was so helpful!  What are McGuffey readers?  Would I buy the whole set?  I think maybe that is part of my problem with ds9 and dd8. I haven't done as much guided reading. You really had a lot of great suggestions.  Thank you again!  

 

 

Anyone else have an opinion on whether I should go with Abeka or OPGTR for phonics?  

[Sahamamama]

Wow!  Thank you, Sahamamama, for your detailed response!!!  That was so helpful!  What are McGuffey readers?  Would I buy the whole set?  I think maybe that is part of my problem with ds9 and dd8. I haven't done as much guided reading. You really had a lot of great suggestions.  Thank you again!  

 

 

Anyone else have an opinion on whether I should go with Abeka or OPGTR for phonics?  

 

Here's a good explanation of the McGuffey readers:

 

http://www.mottmedia.com/pages/publications.asp?Pub=mcguffey

 

The whole set without the teacher guide (we've never used it):

 

http://www.christianbook.com/the-original-mcguffeys-eclectic-series/william-mcguffey/9780880620147/pd/0620145?event=ESRCG

 

If you have a Kindle or other e-reader, you could download the PDFs for free from Project Gutenberg.

 

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/5671

 

Ambleside Online has some ideas for what to read and when:

 

https://www.amblesideonline.org/curriculum.shtml

 

Ambleside Online also has a "library" of online books and e-texts:

 

https://www.amblesideonline.org/library.shtml

 

Some fun stories for younger students doing Guided Reading are the "You Read to Me, I'll Read to You" series. Your library might have access to them:

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=you%20read%20to%20me%20i%27ll%20read%20to%20you&sprefix=you+read+to+me%2Caps%2C372

 

HTH.

 

[cam112198]

Here's a good explanation of the McGuffey readers:

 

http://www.mottmedia.com/pages/publications.asp?Pub=mcguffey

 

The whole set without the teacher guide (we've never used it):

 

http://www.christianbook.com/the-original-mcguffeys-eclectic-series/william-mcguffey/9780880620147/pd/0620145?event=ESRCG

 

If you have a Kindle or other e-reader, you could download the PDFs for free from Project Gutenberg.

 

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/5671

 

Ambleside Online has some ideas for what to read and when:

 

https://www.amblesideonline.org/curriculum.shtml

 

Ambleside Online also has a "library" of online books and e-texts:

 

https://www.amblesideonline.org/library.shtml

 

Some fun stories for younger students doing Guided Reading are the "You Read to Me, I'll Read to You" series. Your library might have access to them:

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_14?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=you%20read%20to%20me%20i%27ll%20read%20to%20you&sprefix=you+read+to+me%2Caps%2C372

 

HTH.

 

Oh wow!  Thank you!! That helps a ton! 

[GrammarGirl]

Both are great programs. I think it comes down to whether you want to use worksheets or not. I used A Beka with my oldest but am really liking the no-worksheets aspect of OPG for my second.

[ElizabethB]

For your 8 and 9 year old:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

 

I also like the 1879 McGuffey readers.

[Sahamamama]

For your 8 and 9 year old:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

 

I also like the 1879 McGuffey readers.

 

Thanks, Elizabeth! I don't think I ever realized that there are some significant differences between our version (I think from the 1830s) and this later one (1879). After reading about them and comparing, I agree, the 1879 seems better. (How do you think they compare? Could you PM me, so we don't derail this thread?)

 

http://www.mcguffeyreaders.com/1879_version.htm

 

There are still dead mothers, though!

 

http://www.mcguffeyreaders.com/pics/4THREAD5.jpg

 

Thanks!

[ElizabethB]

Thanks, Elizabeth! I don't think I ever realized that there are some significant differences between our version (I think from the 1830s) and this later one (1879). After reading about them and comparing, I agree, the 1879 seems better. (How do you think they compare? Could you PM me, so we don't derail this thread?)

 

http://www.mcguffeyreaders.com/1879_version.htm

 

There are still dead mothers, though!

 

http://www.mcguffeyreaders.com/pics/4THREAD5.jpg

 

Thanks!

It actually also pertains to this thead, the 1879 readers are better for building up reading. They are based on phonics, the 1828 Mott Media edition is based on a type of elocutionary whole word reading that was taught from 1826 to 1876.

 

History of Reading Instruction here for those interested:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/historyofreading.html

 

The 1879 Readers has the difficult words diacritically marked and defined, so they are great for building up reading and vocabulary skills. They are also a much better incremental reading progression through the Readers and even within each Reader, the passages increase in phonetic and vocabulary difficulty.

 

There is more Christian content in the 1828 version, but the 1879 versions are morally sound and have a few explicit Christian passages.

 

The 1879 Readers also have reading comprehension questions from the 3rd or 4th reader on, I am not sure if the 1828 version does or not.

[Homeschoolmom3]

I am struggling with this too.  My two older children both used Abeka for Pre K and K.  It does work and builds strong readers!  We never had to do anymore phonics after that and we just used Modern Curriculum Press - Spelling Workout to go over spelling rules.  I am deciding what to use with youngest next year.  I have both same as you and as tempting as OPTGR is and less time consuming to get it ready I still am having a hard time switching so I probably will stay with Abeka and might skip some of the worksheets and "busy work" but will keep with the phonics.  Tough choice I feel your pain.  Good luck in your decision!

[KrissiK]

Last year I would have said A Beka, hands down. I taught my 3 olders to read with A Beka, I loved A Beka, my kids are all very good readers. Enter my newest kindergartener! Oh boy! A Beka's vowel first approach is not working for her at all. She cannot tell the difference between the sounds. So, I'm changing curriculum with her. I was talking with my mom (a former kinder teacher) and reminiscing about the phonics program they taught when I was a kid. It was really good. It was Distar. So, I went on line and discovered that the program that many here on the boards use "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" is the homeschool adaptation of that program. So, I got it and will start that with her.

 

I'm not saying you should use one curriculum over another, but what I'm saying is... What works for some, may not work for others. So, go with what works.