Saxon algebra 1/2 or 8/7?

[Renai]

So, we've decided to homeschool our oldest again after a year of K12 and another at a dual language charter. At the charter, she took prealgebra and passed with a 1.9, so barely. She places into TT Algebra, but we cnat purchase it now. I have both Saxon 1/2 and 8/7 on hand which she can use until we can get TT. Which would be a better choice, considering she's been through prealgebra in school, but can certainly use the review before algebra?

 

Thanks

[mom2bee]

Why did she score poorly in her first PreAlgebra?

What is the big difference between the books when you look at the Table of Contents?

I am not familiar with 8/7 or A1/2 by ToC...

[AK_Mom4]

I have used both 1/2 and 8/7 with different kids.  8/7 has more review of decimals and fractions, so if your child is at all week in those areas, I would do 8/7 and see if you can get those areas solid.  If she is good with the lower math and just struggled with the algebraic part, then 1/2 would work fine IMO

[mom2bee]

Here is the Scope and Sequence for Saxon A1/2, Saxon A1 and Saxon A2.

 

I found the Table of Contents for the 3rd Edition books of  8/7 and for Algebra 1/2.

Take a look and see which one might be more helpful to your kid, based on her strengths...

[Renai]

Why did she score poorly in her first PreAlgebra?

What is the big difference between the books when you look at the Table of Contents?

I am not familiar with 8/7 or A1/2 by ToC...

Honestly, I have no idea. I don't think they used books in her class and I rarely saw her work (it was kept in portfolios at the school). I know when she started school, we were working on fractions with MUS. She has improved greatly with that, as I would spot check her periodically to see what she was doing/could do.

[Renai]

I have used both 1/2 and 8/7 with different kids. 8/7 has more review of decimals and fractions, so if your child is at all week in those areas, I would do 8/7 and see if you can get those areas solid. If she is good with the lower math and just struggled with the algebraic part, then 1/2 would work fine IMO

Ok, she told me she's a bit shaky on decimals and could use more fraction practice, so we'll go with 8/7. I was leaning in that direction, but needed more opinions. It looks like 8/7 doesn't start as far back as 1/2 either.

 

Thanks

[Renai]

Here is the Scope and Sequence for Saxon A1/2, Saxon A1 and Saxon A2.

 

I found the Table of Contents for the 3rd Edition books of 8/7 and for Algebra 1/2.

Take a look and see which one might be more helpful to your kid, based on her strengths...

I have 2nd edition 1/2 and 3rd edition 8/7. It looks like 1/2 starts off more basic than the other, so we'll go for 8/7. Thanks

[mom2bee]

whoops!

[mom2bee]

Honestly, I have no idea. I don't think they used books in her class and I rarely saw her work (it was kept in portfolios at the school). I know when she started school, we were working on fractions with MUS. She has improved greatly with that, as I would spot check her periodically to see what she was doing/could do.

How did she do with K12 math before going to the dual-language charter? What is the last part of math she really has solid mastery of?

 

Personally I would be very hesitant to put a student who nearly failed PreAlgebra (which is more like Comprehensive Arithmetic and Beginning Problem Solving) into Algebra 1 without serious review of that basic math and I'd go on a man-hunt for any and all holes in her knowledge.

 

How was K12 Math? Did she go into PreAlgebra under prepared? Or did she flounder on just PreAlgebra? Does she still remember all that she learned prior to K12?

 

I know you say she was in a dual-language school--was it a language she knows or was she learning the language and prealgebra at the same time? What did the dual-language school use for PreAlgebra? (Can you contact her teacher and ask what material they were going off of?)

 

I haven't used Saxon myself (yet), but it has a reputation as being solid and laying a reliable foundation for many students. I know that you are supposed to do ALL of the problems, but I know that people skip some anyway and in your daughters case, she may just need comprehensive review.

 

To discover your daughters true math level, I would put her through at least one full Saxon book before anything else. If you want to accelerate it, you have to keep a very close eye and be very responsive to her grades and especially attentive of her mistakes as they are made (but I'm sure you already are anyway).

 

I read on the archives recently, that rather than do the evens or odds in any given Mixed Review Problem set, its better to do every lesson and all lesson practice but every other Mixed Review in its entirety. That sounds like good advice for how to "accelerate" Saxon until you find the perfect spot to be while also filling any holes that crop up. Depending on how familiar your daughter is with the material in 8/7, this could be a good way to do a quick-run through the material she knows to that which she stumbles on without leaving anything out...

 

If you start with Saxon 8/7 then maybe she could do n lessons at a time--meaning read the intro, examples (have her work through the examples with pen and paper, not just read) and do all the lesson practice and then do every nth mixed review practice set in full until she is scoring less than 90% on the Mixed reviews.

 

When she gets to Saxon 1/2 and the material is still familiar to her, then she could accelerate through in a similar manner doing 2 lessons at a time and only the even number Mixed Reviews.

 

I would feel better doing Saxon 8/7 and/or Saxon Algebra 1/2 in its entirety before going onto any Algebra 1 curriculum...

 

ETA: I don't know what happened! My computer loaded and double posted then I realized I was on the HS forum, and the reply was lost again! Sheesh!

[Ellie]

Has she taken the placement test? Because that's where you should start.

[Renai]

Mom2bee: your last paragraph sums up how I feel. I felt that way when I first saw her math grade, and told her she'd probably need another year of prealgebra before moving on. I really wanted her to have the basics down pat. Math is not her strength. She narrowly passed the MUS placement to start algebra- some things she hadn't seen and some things was the way she wrote things out.

 

For example, the problem 8 x 2 + 5^2 - Y = 2(Y + 1) + 6. She was to simplify and solve, then check. She actually set up the problem correctly, worked it correctly with one math error in subtraction, forgot to multiply the 2 and Y. The check answer is 30. She got 30 /= 16. She never solved Y. Anywhere. I don't how she did that. No Y, but 30 is in the answer. She did that with every problem like it.

 

I also doubt they worked much on decimals and percentages. The last I heard, they were working on it in December and she wasn't doing well. I didn't see any extra work to improve that. I think now that she is more accepting of the idea of homeschooling again, she'll also be more cooperative of redoing prealgebra.

 

Oh, she's going into the 9th grade.

[mom2bee]

Mom2bee: your last paragraph sums up how I feel. I felt that way when I first saw her math grade, and told her she'd probably need another year of prealgebra before moving on. I really wanted her to have the basics down pat. Math is not her strength. She narrowly passed the MUS placement to start algebra- some things she hadn't seen and some things was the way she wrote things out.

 

For example, the problem 8 x 2 + 5^2 - Y = 2(Y + 1) + 6. She was to simplify and solve, then check. She actually set up the problem correctly, worked it correctly with one math error in subtraction, forgot to multiply the 2 and Y. The check answer is 30. She got 30 /= 16. She never solved Y. Anywhere. I don't how she did that. No Y, but 30 is in the answer. She did that with every problem like it.

 

I also doubt they worked much on decimals and percentages. The last I heard, they were working on it in December and she wasn't doing well. I didn't see any extra work to improve that. I think now that she is more accepting of the idea of homeschooling again, she'll also be more cooperative of redoing prealgebra.

 

Oh, she's going into the 9th grade.

I'm no expert, but I think that you are right and that she should do a deep run through of PreAlgebra and then just move into Algebra 1 when she's ready regardless of the calendar. Give the placement tests for Saxon, but it sounds like an abbreviated run through of 8/7 and then Algebra 1/2 might really benefit her, she'd probably have to do 60-90 min of math every day to get through both books in 9th grade, but it could give her the shoring up that she needs to be successful without so much stress in Algebra.

 

If you decide that Saxon is working for you, I know that Saxon Algebra 1 (3rd Ed?) and Saxon Algebra 2 (3rd Ed?) together make up the full Algebra 1, Geo, Algebra 2 sequence. So that is 3 years of math in 2 if you work through the summer and she'd be back on track for a 4th math her senior year...Just a thought.

 

ETA: Correction! Algebra 1 and 2 will give you Algebra 1 and 2 and half of a standard Geometry course, for the other half of that standard Geometry course, you would need to do Saxon Advanced Math.

[cbollin]

Here's the placement test.  It's for 3rd edition but I don't know if that makes that big of a  difference for the situation.  I agree that you should probably try to fine tune this decision after placement test. I know, it's a long placement test. Look on page 8 of pdf in the link for some info on that.

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/inc/pdf/saxon.pdf

 

 

on this:

If you decide that Saxon is working for you, I know that Saxon Algebra 1 (3rd Ed?) and Saxon Algebra 2 (3rd Ed?) together make up the full Algebra 1, Geo, Algebra 2 sequence. So that is 3 years of math in 2 if you work through the summer and she'd be back on track for a 4th math her senior year...Just a thought.

 

 

 

I've always heard it was:   It's Saxon Alg 1, Alg 2 and parts of Saxon Advanced give you "alg 1, geo, alg 2" sequence.  It's not just alg 1 and 2 books.  Those 2 give one semester and the other semester comes from parts of Advanced. 

 

[Renai]

Thanks for all the responses. It brings up another problem: she was really looking forward to doing biology this year. I understand it should be done along with, or after completing, algebra. Could she still do biology if I just help her with the math?

 

ETA: I'm not sure I want to stay with Saxon. I'd use it now because I have it on hand (along with MUS fractions that she never finished while in school). She wants to remove me from her math equation as she doesn't click with the way I explain some things. I totally understand that, and shared with her my own math story and how a good teacher can make all the difference. That's why we were looking at TT- all the problems are explained.

[cbollin]

You'll be fine in biology.  Usually the recommendation is not about the math needed in biology, but that you want to get math ready for chemistry the following year. 

[mom2bee]

Here's the placement test.  It's for 3rd edition but I don't know if that makes that big of a  difference for the situation.  I agree that you should probably try to fine tune this decision after placement test. I know, it's a long placement test. Look on page 8 of pdf in the link for some info on that.

 

http://www.mfwbooks.com/inc/pdf/saxon.pdf

 

 

on this:

 

 

I've always heard it was:   It's Saxon Alg 1, Alg 2 and parts of Saxon Advanced give you "alg 1, geo, alg 2" sequence.  It's not just alg 1 and 2 books.  Those 2 give one semester and the other semester comes from parts of Advanced. 

Yes, you are very right! My mistake, lol. Sorry about that Renai.

[Renai]

You'll be fine in biology. Usually the recommendation is not about the math needed in biology, but that you want to get math ready for chemistry the following year.

This is a big relief to know!

[Renai]

Yes, you are very right! My mistake, lol. Sorry about that Renai.

:-)

[Ellie]

 

Give the placement tests for Saxon, but it sounds like an abbreviated run through of 8/7 and then Algebra 1/2 might really benefit her, she'd probably have to do 60-90 min of math every day to get through both books in 9th grade, but it could give her the shoring up that she needs to be successful without so much stress in Algebra.

It is not necessary to do both Math 87 and Alg. 1/2, not even to do parts of each one. It's one or t'other. :-)

[cbollin]

agreeing with Ellie that for most students it is one or the other with 87 and 1/2.  I know my oldest did 87 in 7th and was ready for alg 1 in 8th...  My middle daughter on the other hand did 87 in 7th and we could tell she needed to do "8th grade math" in 8th grade, so she did 1/2.  then alg 1 in 9th. And we were glad we went that route for her.  She needed the extra year.  

 

in Renai's situation with older student, I'm thinking just one or the other will be good.

[Ellie]

agreeing with Ellie that for most students it is one or the other with 87 and 1/2.  I know my oldest did 87 in 7th and was ready for alg 1 in 8th...  My middle daughter on the other hand did 87 in 7th and we could tell she needed to do "8th grade math" in 8th grade, so she did 1/2.  then alg 1 in 9th. And we were glad we went that route for her.  She needed the extra year.  

 

in Renai's situation with older student, I'm thinking just one or the other will be good.

 

Mostly my quibble was with the suggestion to do parts of Math 87 and parts of Alg. 1/2.  :-)

[Renai]

So, I gave her placement test for TT (her preferred, hand-picked curriculum), and she placed at TT 7. All her mistakes had to do with fractions, decimals, and percents. This is what I had wanted to work with her on all last year when she was in school, have a "tutoring hour" daily with MUS. It never got done. And she never learned it in school eaither. I've tutored middle school students in math, and, well...

 

Anyway, I talked to her about it. She will use Saxon 8/7, using the tests to find where she needs to fill in the gaps. I've also orderd TT PreAlg for when she completes 8/7. I told her there's no rush. I want her to have a good foundation so she'll experience success in higher level maths. She's cool with it. Frankly, I think she was scared of hitting algebra too soon anyway.

[Ellie]

So, I gave her placement test for TT (her preferred, hand-picked curriculum), and she placed at TT 7. All her mistakes had to do with fractions, decimals, and percents. This is what I had wanted to work with her on all last year when she was in school, have a "tutoring hour" daily with MUS. It never got done. And she never learned it in school eaither. I've tutored middle school students in math, and, well...

 

Anyway, I talked to her about it. She will use Saxon 8/7, using the tests to find where she needs to fill in the gaps. I've also orderd TT PreAlg for when she completes 8/7. I told her there's no rush. I want her to have a good foundation so she'll experience success in higher level maths. She's cool with it. Frankly, I think she was scared of hitting algebra too soon anyway.

 

It always feels good to make a decision. :-)

 

You understand that she won't *need* TT pre-algebra when she completes 87, because 87 *is* pre-algebra. :-)

[Renai]

It always feels good to make a decision. :-)

 

You understand that she won't *need* TT pre-algebra when she completes 87, because 87 *is* pre-algebra. :-)

Yes. The difference is in 87, I am directing and teaching, hitting hard on the weak areas. TT, she should be able to do on her own, building confidence and independence before hitting algebra.That is also important - for both of us.

 

If she is able to move quickly through TT, all the better. I only need to get her through algebra 2 (pray for us!) before she graduates. She's ambitious enough to want to do precal, but her skill just is not there. I told her to take it in college for fun. That's what I did- after developing confidence and understanding through an awesome teacher in the 10th grade.

[Omma]

I would also recommend doing the Facts Practice and the Mental Math that is included in Saxon 8/7.  This will really help with math automaticity.  Soon fractions and decimal equivalents will be as comfortable as an old shoe to her!  At least, this is what happened with my dc this past year using Saxon 8/7!

 

Best regards,

Brenda

[Teachin'Mine]

So, I gave her placement test for TT (her preferred, hand-picked curriculum), and she placed at TT 7. All her mistakes had to do with fractions, decimals, and percents. This is what I had wanted to work with her on all last year when she was in school, have a "tutoring hour" daily with MUS. It never got done. And she never learned it in school either. I've tutored middle school students in math, and, well...

 

Anyway, I talked to her about it. She will use Saxon 8/7, using the tests to find where she needs to fill in the gaps. I've also ordered TT PreAlg for when she completes 8/7. I told her there's no rush. I want her to have a good foundation so she'll experience success in higher level maths. She's cool with it. Frankly, I think she was scared of hitting algebra too soon anyway.

 

We've used Saxon from 6/5 through Calculus.  I've never used or even seen TT, but I did look at their online placement test.  With their guidelines of needing only 10 out of 15 correct on the first section and 8 out of 15 on the second, I don't think it's at all a good indicator for whether a student is ready for Saxon 8/7.  I would strongly recommend that she take Saxon's online placement test.  The scope of content is likely much broader than in TT as Saxon incorporates geometry in with the pre-algebra and algebra in the third editions.

 

However if you do decide to go with 8/7, I would also strongly recommend that she not try to test out of anything, but do each lesson completely and re-do any missed problems - without looking at the solutions manual.  Doing well in 8/7 is so important for success in algebra, IMO.  It's not to say that every student who does well in 8/7 will do well in algebra, but I think it's highly unlikely that a student who doesn't do well in 8/7 will do well in Saxon's algebra.  My suggestion would be for her to do the lessons from the beginning and if they're easy, as the first ones are review, then she can do two lessons in a day.  She will likely get to the point where it's no longer easy fairly soon into the book.

 

If you're wondering what to do after biology next year, she could do a physical science in 10th and then will be at a high enough math level for chemistry in 11th.   The math sequence I would aim for would be 8/7, algebra 1, algebra 2 and then advanced math - all with Saxon's 3rd editions.   I hope she finds that Saxon's methods help her to succeed in math.  It's a lot of work and takes time each day, but IMO there are no shortcuts to master math.

[Renai]

We've used Saxon from 6/5 through Calculus. I've never used or even seen TT, but I did look at their online placement test. With their guidelines of needing only 10 out of 15 correct on the first section and 8 out of 15 on the second, I don't think it's at all a good indicator for whether a student is ready for Saxon 8/7. I would strongly recommend that she take Saxon's online placement test. The scope of content is likely much broader than in TT as Saxon incorporates geometry in with the pre-algebra and algebra in the third editions.

 

However if you do decide to go with 8/7, I would also strongly recommend that she not try to test out of anything, but do each lesson completely and re-do any missed problems - without looking at the solutions manual. Doing well in 8/7 is so important for success in algebra, IMO. It's not to say that every student who does well in 8/7 will do well in algebra, but I think it's highly unlikely that a student who doesn't do well in 8/7 will do well in Saxon's algebra. My suggestion would be for her to do the lessons from the beginning and if they're easy, as the first ones are review, then she can do two lessons in a day. She will likely get to the point where it's no longer easy fairly soon into the book.

 

If you're wondering what to do after biology next year, she could do a physical science in 10th and then will be at a high enough math level for chemistry in 11th. The math sequence I would aim for would be 8/7, algebra 1, algebra 2 and then advanced math - all with Saxon's 3rd editions. I hope she finds that Saxon's methods help her to succeed in math. It's a lot of work and takes time each day, but IMO there are no shortcuts to master math.

We've used Saxon before, 54 with teaching dvds. She then did math with K12 (fundamentals of algebra and geometry), then prealgebra at a charter school. She barely passed either of those classes. With the speed in which she works, there is no way she can do two Saxon lessons in a day. On the TT placement, all her mistakes had to do with fraction/decimal/percentage conversions, and fraction operactions. That was in section 2. Thus, she'd test, see what she misses, then go back and those lessons. I don't have a solutions manual, so will be teaching and working out all the problems ourselves.

 

We're planning to move into TT. She'll do 87 then TT PreAlg, hopefully independently, before moving into algebra. I posted above why.

 

For after biology, I'm considering conceptual chemistry, which is not as math-based.

[Renai]

Oh, and the only internet access is on my phone so she can't do the online test. I'm just trying to use the resources we have as is most financially feasible. Someone gave us 87 (worktext and test/worksheets) a while back. I've tutored public students in prealg/alg, so feel fairly confident we can use the Saxon we have to fortify her weaknesses.

[Teachin'Mine]

Sorry, I missed the info about using TT to rebuild confidence.  That does make sense.  Conceptual chemistry sounds like a good option after biology.

 

And It sounds like you'll do fine without the solutions manual for 8/7.   I hope it's a great school year for both of you!

[Renai]

Sorry, I missed the info about using TT to rebuild confidence. That does make sense. Conceptual chemistry sounds like a good option after biology.

 

And It sounds like you'll do fine without the solutions manual for 8/7. I hope it's a great school year for both of you!

Thanks for your responses. I read about Conceptual chemistry on the Sonlight boards and it seemed to be a good answer for my obviously not STEM dd. She started out so good in math, then somewhere down the line, I failed her. :-(

[Teachin'Mine]

Renai, if she was doing well with 5/4, then I would think the problem was that the school placed her inappropriately in her math classes.  If they had allowed her to continue from where she was, she wouldn't have been so lost.  It must have been so hard and frustrating for her.   It's great that you'll be homeschooling her again and she can work at her level and fill in any gaps.   It's the tortoise who won.  Slow and steady progress should be the goal.  You never know how far she'll take it once she begins to do well and likes math again.   :grouphug:

[kiana]

Renai, if she was doing well with 5/4, then I would think the problem was that the school placed her inappropriately in her math classes.  If they had allowed her to continue from where she was, she wouldn't have been so lost.  It must have been so hard and frustrating for her.   It's great that you'll be homeschooling her again and she can work at her level and fill in any gaps.   It's the tortoise who won.  Slow and steady progress should be the goal.  You never know how far she'll take it once she begins to do well and likes math again.   :grouphug:

 

I agree with everything.

[speedmom4]

We've used Saxon from 6/5 through Calculus.  I've never used or even seen TT, but I did look at their online placement test.  With their guidelines of needing only 10 out of 15 correct on the first section and 8 out of 15 on the second, I don't think it's at all a good indicator for whether a student is ready for Saxon 8/7.  I would strongly recommend that she take Saxon's online placement test.  The scope of content is likely much broader than in TT as Saxon incorporates geometry in with the pre-algebra and algebra in the third editions.

 

However if you do decide to go with 8/7, I would also strongly recommend that she not try to test out of anything, but do each lesson completely and re-do any missed problems - without looking at the solutions manual.  Doing well in 8/7 is so important for success in algebra, IMO.  It's not to say that every student who does well in 8/7 will do well in algebra, but I think it's highly unlikely that a student who doesn't do well in 8/7 will do well in Saxon's algebra.  My suggestion would be for her to do the lessons from the beginning and if they're easy, as the first ones are review, then she can do two lessons in a day.  She will likely get to the point where it's no longer easy fairly soon into the book.

 

If you're wondering what to do after biology next year, she could do a physical science in 10th and then will be at a high enough math level for chemistry in 11th.   The math sequence I would aim for would be 8/7, algebra 1, algebra 2 and then advanced math - all with Saxon's 3rd editions.   I hope she finds that Saxon's methods help her to succeed in math.  It's a lot of work and takes time each day, but IMO there are no shortcuts to master math.

 

I'm using Saxon 8/7 for my two boys. We actually just started today.  We are also using Art Reed DVDs to teach concepts. He recommends doing every single problem, not just the odds or the evens. Do you agree with that? It seems like the school day will be quite long if they do all the problems but I want them to have a strong math foundation not just get it done. What do you recommend?

 

Sorry to hijack the thread!

 

Elise in NC

[cbollin]

I'm using Saxon 8/7 for my two boys. We actually just started today.  We are also using Art Reed DVDs to teach concepts. He recommends doing every single problem, not just the odds or the evens. Do you agree with that? It seems like the school day will be quite long if they do all the problems but I want them to have a strong math foundation not just get it done. What do you recommend?

 

Sorry to hijack the thread!

 

Elise in NC

 

My experience:  we used MFW's lesson plans for Saxon 87, alg 1/2, alg 1, 2, and advanced.  Those plans are designed for above average learner.  It is not "do only odds or evens" however.  Some lessons are do each and every problem.  Other problem sets, the most redundant problems were skipped.   Then there is a note in the plans that say if your student is struggling, then do all of the  problems for more practice in each lesson.  Those lesson plans were written by a career math teacher who used Saxon in classroom setting. 

 

My oldest did really well.  No, she didn't get a 36 on the math subscore of ACT, but she did score high enough on math part of ACT (in her 11th grade year)  that she was placed into Calc 1 for engineering majors at her college without an additional placement test.    In her 12th grade, second semester, she was able to do the Calc 1 online course on Coursera from Ohio State. 

 

I feel the mfw lesson plans have worked for her.   Again, it's not every single problem, nor is it just odds/evens.  It was specifically picked problems in each set (and usually it was about 20 or more problems).  and it has check points for parent to see if their student needs to do all problems.

 

I know others disagree with that method and roll their eyes at it. Ok.  But it helped my oldest get college calculus ready.  Our goal was not to get college credit for calc while in high school because we wanted her to take calc at the college with her engineering school.

 

For my middle gal...   I think she's getting the concepts and she has done well on tests by following the mfw lesson plans. 

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm using Saxon 8/7 for my two boys. We actually just started today.  We are also using Art Reed DVDs to teach concepts. He recommends doing every single problem, not just the odds or the evens. Do you agree with that? It seems like the school day will be quite long if they do all the problems but I want them to have a strong math foundation not just get it done. What do you recommend?

 

Sorry to hijack the thread!

 

Elise in NC

 

Yes I do agree with that.  Obviously some can get by with doing less as the above poster pointed out, but for those of us who don't have those lesson plans, don't want to figure out which ones can be skipped for their particular child, or don't have a problem with doing all the problems, it's best to do them all.  IMO one of the things about Saxon which best prepared my dd for upper level math is working for a long stretch of time on math.  Advanced Math and Calculus lessons often took 1.5 to 2 hours to complete with checking and redoing missed problems.   That was great prep for the volume of work required for college math courses.  The transition was seamless.  8/7 took my daughter about an hour so the build up in time was gradual; she also works very quickly.   I never minded math taking a higher proportion of the time in our daily work as to me it's important.  I never thought it would be her favorite subject or that she would pursue STEM fields as she was so strong in reading and writing, but that's what happened.

 

If doing the full lesson at one sitting is too long, split it up into a morning and afternoon session.  You can start with the mental math and facts practice and then learning the lesson.  Maybe they'll only do the first 10 lesson problems and then complete the remaining, check and redo problems in the afternoon.   Do whatever works for your students.  Regarding the time, it will likely take longer using videos as dd just used the text.  I had thought she was reading everything and working problems, but she's since admitted that she usually just started in on the problems and sometimes skimmed through the lesson.  This is not recommended.  lol  It also likely resulted in more problems needing to be reworked, but that was usually just due to her age and simple errors.   In the upper levels she read through the lessons more thoroughly and worked sample problems as needed. 

 

[speedmom4]

My experience:  we used MFW's lesson plans for Saxon 87, alg 1/2, alg 1, 2, and advanced.  Those plans are designed for above average learner.  It is not "do only odds or evens" however.  Some lessons are do each and every problem.  Other problem sets, the most redundant problems were skipped.   Then there is a note in the plans that say if your student is struggling, then do all of the  problems for more practice in each lesson.  Those lesson plans were written by a career math teacher who used Saxon in classroom setting. 

 

My oldest did really well.  No, she didn't get a 36 on the math subscore of ACT, but she did score high enough on math part of ACT (in her 11th grade year)  that she was placed into Calc 1 for engineering majors at her college without an additional placement test.    In her 12th grade, second semester, she was able to do the Calc 1 online course on Coursera from Ohio State. 

 

I feel the mfw lesson plans have worked for her.   Again, it's not every single problem, nor is it just odds/evens.  It was specifically picked problems in each set (and usually it was about 20 or more problems).  and it has check points for parent to see if their student needs to do all problems.

 

I know others disagree with that method and roll their eyes at it. Ok.  But it helped my oldest get college calculus ready.  Our goal was not to get college credit for calc while in high school because we wanted her to take calc at the college with her engineering school.

 

For my middle gal...   I think she's getting the concepts and she has done well on tests by following the mfw lesson plans. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

Elise in NC

[speedmom4]

Yes I do agree with that.  Obviously some can get by with doing less as the above poster pointed out, but for those of us who don't have those lesson plans, don't want to figure out which ones can be skipped for their particular child, or don't have a problem with doing all the problems, it's best to do them all.  IMO one of the things about Saxon which best prepared my dd for upper level math is working for a long stretch of time on math.  Advanced Math and Calculus lessons often took 1.5 to 2 hours to complete with checking and redoing missed problems.   That was great prep for the volume of work required for college math courses.  The transition was seamless.  8/7 took my daughter about an hour so the build up in time was gradual; she also works very quickly.   I never minded math taking a higher proportion of the time in our daily work as to me it's important.  I never thought it would be her favorite subject or that she would pursue STEM fields as she was so strong in reading and writing, but that's what happened.

 

If doing the full lesson at one sitting is too long, split it up into a morning and afternoon session.  You can start with the mental math and facts practice and then learning the lesson.  Maybe they'll only do the first 10 lesson problems and then complete the remaining, check and redo problems in the afternoon.   Do whatever works for your students.  Regarding the time, it will likely take longer using videos as dd just used the text.  I had thought she was reading everything and working problems, but she's since admitted that she usually just started in on the problems and sometimes skimmed through the lesson.  This is not recommended.  lol  It also likely resulted in more problems needing to be reworked, but that was usually just due to her age and simple errors.   In the upper levels she read through the lessons more thoroughly and worked sample problems as needed. 

 

 

I like the idea of splitting the work up into two sessions. My boys aren't fast workers and can get distracted. Plus adding the DVD instruction in adds about 15 minutes to the total time. I think splitting up the work could help them stay more focused. They are both fairly accurate but it takes them forever! :bored:

 

OT, I love your signature quote!

 

Elise in NC

[Teachin'Mine]

I like the idea of splitting the work up into two sessions. My boys aren't fast workers and can get distracted. Plus adding the DVD instruction in adds about 15 minutes to the total time. I think splitting up the work could help them stay more focused. They are both fairly accurate but it takes them forever! :bored:

 

OT, I love your signature quote!

 

Elise in NC

 

lol I just changed the signature as I haven't updated it in quite a while.  Hope you like the new one too.  Talk about timing ...  lol

[Renai]

Renai, if she was doing well with 5/4, then I would think the problem was that the school placed her inappropriately in her math classes. If they had allowed her to continue from where she was, she wouldn't have been so lost. It must have been so hard and frustrating for her. It's great that you'll be homeschooling her again and she can work at her level and fill in any gaps. It's the tortoise who won. Slow and steady progress should be the goal. You never know how far she'll take it once she begins to do well and likes math again. :grouphug:

You're right. She did well in 54. K12 based on grade not ability. She got lost and the teacher was not helpful. She literally gave up and refused to go any further. She got about halfway through that curriculum. The charter school- the lowest math offered is prealg. So, basically I'm starting her approximately where she left off in K12. I do try to convince her she'll get through this and see the fun in math again.