kolamum Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 For the past 4 years we've been using WP and/or SL which we've fully enjoyed, but we're running out of themes with WP & I'm not entirely sure about the 100+ cores with SL as we don't need that many years of US history living outside of the US. I'd rather have a few other topics thrown in & I really like, what I can see from samples, how much history is integrated & not just focused on one thing at a time. I love the books with the other curriculum, but love that I can choose how many or how few as the kids get into higher grades & need time for other things like foreign language, computer programming, maths, & science.. My eldest also has vision issues {Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome} & so I like being able to pick books at his grade level for audio, but books that will help train his eyes but are on his reading level. However, I've been quiet spoiled having that schedule pre made for me over the past 4 years. I needed that, I coveted that!! :lol: Having said that I've made some major changes to it over the past 2 years & thus feel a little wasteful in buying a schedule & heavily editing it. I'm seeing TOG as a huge book of ideas/resources, but is it worth that price? I'm seriously debating purchasing one unit in the time frame of history we are up to & seeing how we like it.. Love it? Why? Hate it? Why? Things I should keep in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Following :bigear: I'm still debating whether to start using TOG at some point with my own daughter, so I'd love to hear about this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 For me TOG has all the standard advantages that may or may not apply to your situation. I have kids in every level this year so I'm teaching the same thing at different levels which is important when I'm juggling so many subjects and levels already. This may be a con if you aren't planning to reuse your year plan in the future. I love that I can pick and choose depending on what we have going on in a particular week. I do plan ahead for the units, but I can adapt as needed based on what the kids have going on in other subjects or outside obligations for the week (i.e. skip in-depth). This may be a con for a box checker who just can't let it go, or someone who is overwhelmed with choices. I can mix it up with different kids to meet their individual needs. They may cross levels in different areas of study (i.e. D for history, UG for literature) based on that weeks readings. If it's a topic we really want to delve into then there are plenty of resources listed, including the alternative titles to choose from. This is very important for some of my avid readers who just want more. ​This may be a con because not all resources listed have discussion questions included (alternative choices). I love the teacher resources. I don't know of a program that can match the teacher's resources available in TOG. This may be a con for someone who doesn't have the time for discussion or who wouldn't use the teacher resources. Things to keep in mind? If you are coming from SL then you will find that there are more non-fiction books listed in TOG. SL tends to use historical fiction to teach history, while TOG uses non-fiction to teach history and then historical fiction in literature to reinforce history. (IMO) This may be a con if you don't wish to use non-fiction as a primary study of history. If you are coming from TOG then your child may struggle at first with the questions asked in TOG. SL is basically comprehension questions in the lower cores, but TOG takes it further with thinking and accountability questions that assimilate information read across different books beginning in the dialectic level. You may want to pick and choose questions in the beginning while the child adjusts to these different expectations. This may be a con based on what you are looking for in a curriculum. As with anything else, ymmv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 For me, the investment is for the Socratic Discussions. I have had some experience as a student in classrooms where the Socratic discussion was the mode of teaching, so I know how effective it is. But it is difficult to come up with the questions to ask if you are not somewhat of an expert in the topic. TOG makes it possible to have essentially expert-led discussions with your children. If you don't have children who want to have that sort of discussion, then that might be a problem, and in that case, I would have trouble justifying the expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 TOG is more than a book of resources. It really is a plan--just a week plan,not a daily plan. We loved Sonlight, but switched at sixth grade bc I was trying to keep my dc all doing the same thing plus add activities. Basically, I was doing SL TOG style. Overall, I have really like TOG. The discussions are great. My sixth grader did not have trouble transitioning from SL,but being he was dialectic age it was a normal progression for him. (Not that he didn't resist thinking--but it wasn't bc of SL). Many books are used in both programs, just during different years. We still do a lot of read alouds, but I like not having a schedule and "feeling behind". melmichigan said most of what else I'd say. I don't find TOG perfect and sometimes I miss SL, and all that couch time. But now I can choose the amount of couch time we can handle and I have a plan for my older children that is rich and full. I do think there is a lot of American history in TOG, though, so you might want to look on Bookshelf Central and see what you think or see if you can look at someone you know irl's teacher manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hmm, thank you for the answers thus far. Much food for thought. I have been looking at BookShelf Central & noticing that many of the books called for are ones we own which I enjoyed seeing. I liked that much of it was integrated, or at least what I saw from samples. I only have 2 so I wouldn't need to use all the levels at once & I don't know if we'd have time to go back through it again, especially with my eldest.. Still thinking. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I discovered TOG last summer after already purchasing my history curriculum. I researched it the whole summer and ended up purchasing the first unit of Y2. Needless to say, we never even opened the original curriculum I bought. I continued with TOG Y2 by purchasing the units as needed. This year I've already purchased Y3. DD and I love this program. History is one of her favorite classes and never so much as last year. She greatly enjoyed all the living books used and made me promise we would continue with TOG. We used their history, literature, geography, and worldview (church history in Y2). DD learned more about geography last year then ever before. Since I am a compulsive tweaker, TOG is perfect for me. I never got the fog others talk about. I just looked at the column for UG students, printed out those pages, highlighted what we were going to do that week, added any books I wanted to change, and listed it on DD's Onenote schedule for the week. Easy peasy! Next fall will be a little different because DD is moving into the Dialectic stage. I will need to pay more attention to the teacher pages, so we can engage in those Socratic discussions which I'm looking forward to. One thing I don't do is buy EVERY book listed. I only buy the books that are used 4+ weeks, except for the activities books (we do our own activities). I can get quite a few of the other books in our library, and if they don't have it, I just look at the topics for that week and substitute with an appropriate book. When I do decide which books to purchase, I always try to get used books. Most of the time I'm successful by going through bigwords.com. The main reasons why we love this curriculum are: History is comprised of a wonderful selection of living books as well as historical fiction for read-aloud time Literature incorporates the great classics which were written during the time period you're studying in history so that if you are able to go through the program 4 times in the 4 different levels, your child will have read the top classics suggested by most colleges It provides a thorough understanding of how God has worked and is working throughout history to accomplish His goals and tell His story Worldview class teaches students about church history, missionaries, and other religions around the world and how they compare and contrast with Christianity The curriculum is flexible. I can teach as much or little as I want at whatever level necessary to accommodate my child's learning level and style. I purchase just the DE version which costs me $170, plus the MapAides. I don't think that is a terrible price for 4 classes. I only spent about $75 on used books that I wanted for next year (I purchased some of the 2 & 3 week books because I had the extra money and didn't want to substitute.) TOG isn't for everyone. If you want a secular curriculum, TOG may not be for you. If you want an open and go curriculum, this isn't it. If you feel like you need to do everything a curriculum offers and can't cut things out, then this isn't for you either. TOG is a buffet from which you choose the classes you want and how deeply you want to go. Since I like planning and tweaking, this is a perfect curriculum for me. The icing on the cake is how much DD likes the program too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 I discovered TOG last summer after already purchasing my history curriculum. I researched it the whole summer and ended up purchasing the first unit of Y2. Needless to say, we never even opened the original curriculum I bought. I continued with TOG Y2 by purchasing the units as needed. This year I've already purchased Y3. Dare I ask what you'd purchased previously? How long does a day take? Do you plan a full unit or just weeks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 How long does a day take? Do you plan a full unit or just weeks? A varies child to child. My 4th child, 5th grade last year, tended to spend about 45 minutes on Tapestry last year doing the readings. My dialectic and rhetoric children spent about 2, maybe 3, hours a day. That was for history readings, questions, literature readings, writing, and discussion. It varies as their workload varies child to child and day to day. I plan the year in the summer and print everything I need. It's all filed by week and by child. On Friday I hand out the next week's assignments and the children make their own schedule. One enjoys light Wednesdays and Fridays so plans accordingly. Another likes to do all the readings on Monday and Tuesday. A third enjoys an evenly paced week. Everything needs to be finished by Friday so we can do our discussions. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Dare I ask what you'd purchased previously? How long does a day take? Do you plan a full unit or just weeks? I had purchased Diana Waring's History Revealed RRR (used). At the time, it seemed like it would be a good fit because there were a lot of activities we could do, as well as lists of supplemental fiction according to the time period. However, it just felt to much like a textbook to me, and I just couldn't seem to get engaged with it while planning over the summer. OTOH, TOG was the perfect flow, and I found it resonated with me to the point it was just about open and go for planning (I know that's totally opposite of what you hear, but that's the way it was for me). Our day is 5 hours long. That's with TOG, science, Latin, grammar, writing and spelling. Next year we're dropping spelling because DD is pretty much a natural speller, and grammar will just be learned through Latin and the newly revised IEW Fix-It Grammar (The Nose Tree-accelerated). These revisions allow me to add Apologetics (will be done as our Bible time in the evenings as a family) and Philosophy Adventures into the mix and still keep our day to 5 hours, 4 days a week. I leave one day a week open for band/flute at the local PS, and arts/crafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 TOG is a buffet from which you choose the classes you want and how deeply you want to go. Since I like planning and tweaking, this is a perfect curriculum for me. I agree with everything others have said. I wanted to add to the quoted comment. I use TOG to plan history and plan my own science from scratch. I have tried the "do this, this day" type program, and while it served its purpose at the time, it did not fit me well overall. Planning science from scratch is hard and time-consuming. The end result is worth it, IMO, but it is hard to pick topics, sift through all the book choices, decide what age each is appropriate for, etc. TOG hits the perfect sweet spot for me. It gives just enough guidance to help me plan, yet it still leaves me feeling like I custom created a program perfect for each child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree with everything others have said. I wanted to add to the quoted comment. I use TOG to plan history and plan my own science from scratch. I have tried the "do this, this day" type program, and while it served its purpose at the time, it did not fit me well overall. Planning science from scratch is hard and time-consuming. The end result is worth it, IMO, but it is hard to pick topics, sift through all the book choices, decide what age each is appropriate for, etc. TOG hits the perfect sweet spot for me. It gives just enough guidance to help me plan, yet it still leaves me feeling like I custom created a program perfect for each child. :iagree: totally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeteranMom Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 We used it last year. I bought 3 units and used 2 of them. I didn't hate it. I just found we spent a lot of time on it. It felt like a lot of prep time and it was a very expensive program. I couldn't find some of the books used and had to pay full price for them. We ended up using America the Beautiful by Notgrass. I use some non-fiction books, too. I found a lot of the non-fiction books through the Winter Promise curriculum list for American Culture and their American History curriculum. It's just a better fit for us and isn't so overwhelming. I divided America the Beautiful into 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolamum Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 TOG has science in it? I thought you had to add that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 TOG has science in it? I thought you had to add that?? No science in TOG other than some history of science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenciavo Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 How long does a day take? Do you plan a full unit or just weeks? How old/what level are your two children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 TOG has science in it? I thought you had to add that?? I assume you are misreading my post... I plan science from scratch - using no provider. Therefore, I am extra thankful for the guidance TOG gives me in planning history. I hope that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauphin Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I agree with everything others have said. I wanted to add to the quoted comment. I use TOG to plan history and plan my own science from scratch. I have tried the "do this, this day" type program, and while it served its purpose at the time, it did not fit me well overall. Planning science from scratch is hard and time-consuming. The end result is worth it, IMO, but it is hard to pick topics, sift through all the book choices, decide what age each is appropriate for, etc. TOG hits the perfect sweet spot for me. It gives just enough guidance to help me plan, yet it still leaves me feeling like I custom created a program perfect for each child. Yes this exactly! I'm trying to come up with my own US History-in-one-year and that's exactly how I'm feeling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1972booklover Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I actually bought Around the World in 180 Days to use this year, and then I found TOG. I'm in LOVE!! I bought mine used for a great price and it came with MapAids, Lapbooks CD, Loom, PopQuiz and Evaluations. I've probably spent $150-$200 in books and other curriculum (math, science, etc.). Considering I'll have 4 kids homeschooling this year, I consider it pretty cheap!! Open and go curriculums have cost us upwards of $500-$700 per year for only 3 kids. I'm using the library, book swap websites and Amazon for the books I feel we'll need to use the most. I'm very happy so far and can't wait to dive in! I think it's WELL worth the money spent as I plan to use it at least 2 more times (youngest is starting kindergarten this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvaleri Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I have used TOG for four years. Enjoyed all but Year 2 (so I didn't use it =) When I started using TOG five years ago, I had upper grammar, dialectic and reluctant reading rhetoric students. Locating a co-op drew me in. I've also used Sonlight in the past. TOG outweighs SL because of the lesson plans and the discussion outlines. I do not have time to read all the books, especially for several levels. Pros: TOG helped my students learn time management and organization skills-priceless :thumbup: They have read some great literature and learned to analyze it. Love the chronological world history. Lesson plans are basically done. My college student just reminded me how prepared she was for the college work load from using TOG. Cons: Can be overwhelming. Give yourself at least 9 weeks (the first unit) to acclimate. Find a TOG buddy if possible. Lots of the rhetoric books are dry as crackers.(Year 3 is the worst, imo). Their worldview is definitely Reformed....just putting it out there. (Opportunities for discussions). Cost of books. Even so, I have been so blessed to find most of the books used (amazon) or available through the library. Finding buyers has been a blessing as well. Feel free to contact me privately if you have more questions :001_smile: HTH, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 oops...formatting problems. seen below! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 We are entering our fourth year of TOG and we love it. I love having the structure of a weekly plan, even if I don't always follow it. There have been times when I have and times when I haven't, but usually, I follow it closely. The key is it is very flexible. The pros are (as others have said) the socratic discussions, the teacher notes, the Bible and Christian history threads that keep right along with the conventional history threads, and the overall plan. It can be very rigorous if you choose to make it so. One con (as I see it) are that historical fiction is used for teaching literature. I feel that this does not need to be at all. Use historical fiction to teach history, but do not substitute a good literature read for historical fiction. This has bugged me, but has certainly not tipped the scale against using TOG. A perfect example is the use of a Henty novel to teach the literature section on Cortez. ??? I'm sure there was literature being written at the time of Cortez! I would much rather have my kid read that than a reprocessed Henty plot with different characters. Most of the literature is excellent, don't get me wrong. My kids covered so much good stuff last year (year 1) and gained an appreciation for ancient Greek and Roman mythology. I'm so pleased about that. One other con is that it would be easy to become overwhelmed if you did not look at it for the huge feast that it is and take it in smaller, manageable chunks until you are adept at using it and know how to pick and choose. Just be forewarned. That said, we are four years in and going strong. I would not stick with it if we didn't love it! :D good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 One con (as I see it) are that historical fiction is used for teaching literature. I feel that this does not need to be at all. Use historical fiction to teach history, but do not substitute a good literature read for historical fiction. This has bugged me, but has certainly not tipped the scale against using TOG. A perfect example is the use of a Henty novel to teach the literature section on Cortez. ??? I'm sure there was literature being written at the time of Cortez! I would much rather have my kid read that than a reprocessed Henty plot with different characters. Most of the literature is excellent, don't get me wrong. My kids covered so much good stuff last year (year 1) and gained an appreciation for ancient Greek and Roman mythology. I'm so pleased about that. I'm not trying to argue with you.You are entitled to your opinion. :) I'm only throwing in my .02 as another POV for those who are following this discussion. I am so glad that TOG uses historical fiction for literature and not history. Historical fiction is, by definition, fiction. Fiction books should not be used to teach history. A couple homeschool programs do this, and it bothers me. I would be fine with less historical fiction used overall, as in the Henty example. But TOG does use historical fiction sparingly and they never use it to teach history. This is the best way to use historical fiction, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiden Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I have used TOG for four years. Enjoyed all but Year 2 (so I didn't use it =) Cons: Their worldview is definitely Reformed....just putting it out there. (Opportunities for discussions). Would you mind telling me what you mean by a Reformed worldview? I understand that it means that God is in charge, but does it mean more than that? If you'd rather not get into it at all, I understand, and if you'd rather discuss it privately, I'm totally open to a PM. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I'm not trying to argue with you.You are entitled to your opinion. :) I'm only throwing in my .02 as another POV for those who are following this discussion. I am so glad that TOG uses historical fiction for literature and not history. Historical fiction is, by definition, fiction. Fiction books should not be used to teach history. A couple homeschool programs do this, and it bothers me. I would be fine with less historical fiction used overall, as in the Henty example. But TOG does use historical fiction sparingly and they never use it to teach history. This is the best way to use historical fiction, IMO. I see your point, and I'm inclined to agree with you, since you put it this way...As I said, it has not tipped my opinion against TOG in any way. I will mostly likely skip the Henty selections though and sub in something I like better. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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