My ds wants to enter the military should I discourage him.....

[Christine]

ladies, this is very difficult for me. I was really hoping my ds would want to go to college but the more I talk to him about it the more he rejects the idea. He says he does not want to go to college that he would rather enter the marines. He has always been homeschooled and he's a gentle, respectful young man and I'm terrified of the whole idea especially "war." I don't know anyone who has been in the military so I don't know the pros and cons about it. I just want to discourage him but I'm I doing the right thing? Please give me some advice.

Judy

 

I'm not reading any of the replies (on purpose), as I want to give YOU MY reponse.

 

I will tell you upfront, it saddens me when I hear this from parents. I will also tell you that less than 3 years ago I heard myself say the same thing.

 

I believe it was Amy that just recently had a post "I'm not much, but I'm all I talk about".

 

At this point, THIS is about your son.

 

That said. I served in the Army, my husband is currently in (Army also). For all but one 4 year stint we have always served at "all branches posts".

 

Generalizations (meaning there's some truth, but it's not law), I am NOT meaning to insult anyone in any service here! Just repeating what I always hear -- from all services:

 

Army - "grunts" the get the work done (they all get the work done, but the army tends to be long-haul).

Marines - "jar-heads" -- first response (1st in, 1st out)

Air Force - "military boyscouts" -- (I'm not touchin' that one)

Navy -- new enlistees are called "Seamen" (need I say more?)

 

Some parents used to compromise with their children about the whole services thing by convincing them to go Reserve or Guard.

 

I would TRULY recommend against that. Right now, it seems, they are getting the brunt of the war work (that's a whole 'nuther topic altogether).

 

The military is really "good" for some people. There is a lot of "growth" that happens there. I remember before I joined one of my friends - who was in, and didn't like it - said to me, "You'll not come out the same person, but you'll rarely leave "worse" than you were when you joined.

 

College money is a big pro. And, speaking from experience, college right after high school is not always a good thing. The first two years of college are essentially high school review / college prep, so you needn't worry about what he'll forget, and what he'll bring in could go a long way.

 

Bonuses are nice (financially) but generally require longer commitments. For a first time enlistee it is field dependent.

 

If your son has an idea of what field he'd like to go into, he may be able to get training in the military for that field. Employers tend to like military trained personel -- and it could be simply "military trained" and have nothing to do with the field of speciality.

 

Some people, REALLY enjoy their jobs/lives in the military. (Most of us, just see it as a job.)

 

Medical is included.

 

Cons. . .

 

Air Force probably makes the slowest rank advancements.

 

It's "hard". Separation is "hard"; the work is "hard"; training can be intense. BASIC (or whatever they call it in the other services) is emotionally high-strung (or maybe that's because I was in an all-female company?)

 

They deploy. Sometimes they get hurt. . .but I will tell you a "truth" -- a lot of the "hurt" comes when they get back home and their spouse has left. There are more emotional injuries than physical ones. . . .even for those in the field.

 

**********************

Your child is about to leave the nest and move on into this world. It will be a hard transition, for both of you.

 

I humbly submit to you, that your child may have already made up his mind (he's picked a service, after all), and really all he's looking for from you is your support and encouragement.

[Nakia]

Judy,

I haven't read all the relies, but I wanted to say that I think it is a wonderful thing that your son wants to join the armed forces. Both of my brothers are in the army and I am so very proud of them!! :grouphug:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

If he wants to go into the military and you want him to go to college, he should look at the Academies and ROTC.

 

Best of both worlds.

 

This would only work if he wanted to go to college. The stresses and time commitments of ROTC on top of a regular college load are not going to be easy for someone who isn't interested in college. And a service academy application has as one of its priorities, weeding out the students who are applying because their parents think it is a great idea.

 

It is a great thing that students realize that they can go to college, paid for by the military and come out as officers. But it is not the right path for every student.

 

USNA grad, former naval officer, navy wife.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

ladies, this is very difficult for me. I was really hoping my ds would want to go to college but the more I talk to him about it the more he rejects the idea. He says he does not want to go to college that he would rather enter the marines. He has always been homeschooled and he's a gentle, respectful young man and I'm terrified of the whole idea especially "war." I don't know anyone who has been in the military so I don't know the pros and cons about it. I just want to discourage him but I'm I doing the right thing? Please give me some advice.

Judy

 

There is a website that the military put together to help give information on opportunities in today's military.

 

I got out a little over 10 years ago. While much of military life is constant, there is also a lot of change. For example, before dh and I were married, there was no email or cell phone capability. When he deployed, we talked about once a month and wrote letters. Now, the deployed military person can check email frequently and call much more often. This can be good and bad. So it would be good for your son to read historic books about the military as well as current pieces. The rule Your Mileage May Vary always applies. Time, location, branch, professional specialty and family issues color someones military experience.

 

There is a well done book called Making The Corps by Thomas Hicks. This is about Marine Corps boot camp. Keeping Faith by Thomas Shaeffer and John Shaeffer is another one.

[jkwynn]

 

Generalizations (meaning there's some truth, but it's not law), I am NOT meaning to insult anyone in any service here! Just repeating what I always hear -- from all services:

 

Army - "grunts" the get the work done (they all get the work done, but the army tends to be long-haul).

Marines - "jar-heads" -- first response (1st in, 1st out)

Air Force - "military boyscouts" -- (I'm not touchin' that one)

Navy -- new enlistees are called "Seamen" (need I say more?)

 

 

Air Force probably makes the slowest rank advancements.

 

 

*ahem* there are five branches;)

 

Coast Guard - new enlistees are also called seamen or firemen, and I've heard the term "puddle pirates" too. :D

 

Aviation fields in the Coast Guard are also slow to advance. My DH will hit the 10 year mark in a couple weeks, and he's an E6. Other coasties with the same amt of time in, but a different rate, are one or two ranks above him - sometimes due to the sheer amount of vacancies in the rate as people get out or retire. Aviation tends to move slower b/c people tend to stay in longer, as a whole...from what I've been told. Time in rate in one of the things considered when advancing, as is sea time, test scores, "page 7s" etc etc.

[TravelingChris]

We are a long term mililtary family. We've been married 23 years and DH has been in the AF for 21 3/4. He has been taught as a 2nd LT. not to follow illegal orders and he is still being given yearly lectures on not giving such orders and against sexual harassment and on fire safety and scores of other safety and legal issues. If their is anything that the military as an institution does well, it is training. It doesn't matter which branch you are in (I can't speak of training in Guard or Reserves since I have no knowledge), but those principles are pounded into your head. Two years after we have left Europe and AFN, my children can still give you most of the talking points made by the commercials. If you don't watch the tv, it doesn't matter. Those same principles are proclaimed at mandatory briefings, in the base newspapers, in lesson materials you need to master for promotions, on billboards, etc, etc.

 

He was recruited into the military by an AF recruiter and that man was completely honest and aboveboard. He told dh that he may not get the job he wanted and that no guarantees could be made. It turned out that the AF did need physicists and my husband who had a physics degree was a natural for that job. But we both knew, and still know, that the needs of the AF come above the desires of our family.

[Christine]

*ahem* there are five branches;)

 

Coast Guard - new enlistees are also called seamen or firemen, and I've heard the term "puddle pirates" too. :D

 

I KNEW that!

 

Just didn't know what they were called. (I seem to recall "military red-headed step-child" given to them. . .but I never knew why.) Plus they are somewhat "separate". As I've said we've always been at all service posts / bases, but only once has their been Coast Guard to live amongst us and that was one family.

[Kim in SouthGa]

My 12ds has talked about joining the marines for a couple of years now. I asked him why (thinking he would say so he could shoot stuff;)) and he told me he wanted to serve and protect his country. What could I say to that? He waffles back and forth sometimes when he thinks about actually getting shot at, LOL, but he always comes back to some kind of armed services or law enforcement. So I have decided that if he is going to do it, I will do all I can to provide him with the necessary tools to help him be successful. He just earned his black belt in karate. I am trying to find a marksmanship program for him. If I can't find one for his age, he will probably do archery (at least this will help him hit a target), and he hunts with his dad a good bit. I am also trying to push swimming with him, and one of our local colleges offers a PE class he can take in a year or so that works on things like rock climbing and survival skills. If he is going to do it, I want him prepared!

[Jenne]

My 12ds has talked about joining the marines for a couple of years now. I asked him why (thinking he would say so he could shoot stuff;)) and he told me he wanted to serve and protect his country. What could I say to that? He waffles back and forth sometimes when he thinks about actually getting shot at, LOL, but he always comes back to some kind of armed services or law enforcement. So I have decided that if he is going to do it, I will do all I can to provide him with the necessary tools to help him be successful. He just earned his black belt in karate. I am trying to find a marksmanship program for him. If I can't find one for his age, he will probably do archery (at least this will help him hit a target), and he hunts with his dad a good bit. I am also trying to push swimming with him, and one of our local colleges offers a PE class he can take in a year or so that works on things like rock climbing and survival skills. If he is going to do it, I want him prepared!

 

Is your DS in Scouts? That's another great way to help him prepare for a job in military or law enforcement (and to just be ready in case of emergencies.) An Eagle Scout from our troop just finished Army Basic last year and said thanks to his Scouting experiences, he was way ahead of the other men when it came to map-reading and orienteering.

[Peek a Boo]

I am trying to find a marksmanship program for him. If I can't find one for his age, he will probably do archery (at least this will help him hit a target), and he hunts with his dad a good bit.

 

you might want to see if there is a local 4-H club that specializes in shooting sports. Check w/ your local county extension office.

 

I'll second Jenne's Scouting rec --they have some good shooting programs / merit badges too.

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badges

 

and even tho it's not the branch he wants, he might want to consider Civil Air Patrol for a year or two --it could be a stepping stone to getting to know military personnel, and might be just plain ol' fun anyway ;)

 

Good luck!

[tibbyl]

You're Many of the soldiers refused to participate, even when directly ordered to do so. Thompson and his crew actually flew some of the kids out who had been hidden. The three of them were eventually awarded medals for their intervention. Ron Ridenhour, one of the soldiers of Charlie company is the one who brought the incident to light. Twenty-six officers and soldiers were eventually charged.

 

Yes, 26 were charged, but if I recall correctly, only Calley was convicted (of murder) and spent a few weeks or months in prison. The other participants were off the hook because their tour of duty was over. There were others besides Ridenhour who wrote letters to military officers and elected officials alleging widespread abuses in Vietnam.

 

Yes, I recall the medals awarded for intervention. The awards were about 30 years late though. From the outside looking in, I would guess that it can take more courage to stand up to comrades than to the enemy.

 

This was a terribly divisive issue not only in nation but it sharply divided our community. On our jr/sr high campus, students organized a walkout during the courtmartial.

 

Like many, we have close family members and friends who served there. People have varying levels of psychological and emotional resiliency. Suffice to say there are more ways than death to take a life. I sincerely hope that the protocols now in place are effective and enforced so that soldiers are not subjected to such moral dilemmas.

 

While it is true that one can be put in a compromising position in the civilian employment world, the stakes are arguably not as high. In the civilian world, one can often choose to leave for another position in another company.

[Mrs Mungo]

were others besides Ridenhour who wrote letters to military officers and elected officials alleging widespread abuses in Vietnam.

 

Exactly. So, there were plenty of soldiers with the moral courage to come forward.

 

Like many, we have close family members and friends who served there. People have varying levels of psychological and emotional resiliency. Suffice to say there are more ways than death to take a life. I sincerely hope that the protocols now in place are effective and enforced so that soldiers are not subjected to such moral dilemmas.

 

Do you know a lot of people who have served in the GWOT over the last seven years? Because an extremely large portion of the people I know have. Do you know anyone currently serving? Maybe you should make an effort to get to know someone who is and see what they have to say.

 

I can tell you that most civilians have *very* little understanding of the military. There was a time my husband thought about getting out of the military. It was the civilian job interviews that convinced him not to do it. The real lack of understanding by those who have never served combined with the worship of profits over people.

[Carol in Cal.]

...I would discourage him but then let him decide.

 

But before doing either one, I would try to find out what is behind this.

 

Does he want someone else to be more or less in charge of his life and decisions? I think that lots of outsiders picture the military as being that way, right or wrong, and that to some that prospect is comforting.

 

Since you have college ambitions for him but he does not, does he hate studying? Does he fear failure? Does he like study well enough, but needs a break? Does he have ambivalence about what he would major in in college? Does he feel that he needs to be self-supporting right now rather than later for some reason?

 

I guess that what I'm poking at is that if he is regarding the military as more of an escape or safety zone than a destination, I would want him to avoid it; but if he really has a strong positive desire to be a military person, than I would still wish he didn't but I would accept it and accept him.

 

No question about it, though, people who join up now are risking their lives. It is a very serious decision.

[asta]

No question about it, though, people who join up now are risking their lives. It is a very serious decision.

 

I was with you (more or less) right up until I got to this last bit: anyone who joins the armed forces is saying that they are willing to lay down their life for their country - whether the nation is at war has nothing to do with it.

 

Beyond being killed in battle, soldiers die and are injured in the line of duty every single day; it is an inherently dangerous line of work, even during "peacetime".

 

There is no way to simultaneously prepare for war and peace. A nation's military must train for war to maintain the peace. Unfortunately, as Mrs. Mungo has stated, that involves men (and women) who are willing to do dangerous things so that others may sleep soundly at night. And sometimes those men and women get injured and/or die -so that the rest of you don't.

 

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs

 

 

asta

(former Sheepdog, now injured)

[Danestress]

.

[Carol in Cal.]

I was with you (more or less) right up until I got to this last bit: anyone who joins the armed forces is saying that they are willing to lay down their life for their country - whether the nation is at war has nothing to do with it.

 

Beyond being killed in battle, soldiers die and are injured in the line of duty every single day; it is an inherently dangerous line of work, even during "peacetime".

 

There is no way to simultaneously prepare for war and peace. A nation's military must train for war to maintain the peace. Unfortunately, as Mrs. Mungo has stated, that involves men (and women) who are willing to do dangerous things so that others may sleep soundly at night. And sometimes those men and women get injured and/or die -so that the rest of you don't.

 

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs

 

 

asta

(former Sheepdog, now injured)

 

I think that you are right that military service is inherently dangerous in or out of wartime, but I believe that it's statistically more dangerous during times of war. And whatever one feels about one war or another, it is undeniable that the danger should be considered as part of the overall decision making process. When idealism or patriotism demands service, still, after that consideration, then fine. But I have known young people who entered the military without really facing the fact that that is an inherently dangerous choice. Should it necessarily be avoided because of that? Of course not. But the cost should be counted, because there is no turning back once you commit yourself to this.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think that you are right that military service is inherently dangerous in or out of wartime, but I believe that it's statistically more dangerous during times of war. And whatever one feels about one war or another, it is undeniable that the danger should be considered as part of the overall decision making process. When idealism or patriotism demands service, still, after that consideration, then fine. But I have known young people who entered the military without really facing the fact that that is an inherently dangerous choice. Should it necessarily be avoided because of that? Of course not. But the cost should be counted, because there is no turning back once you commit yourself to this.

 

I think that was exactly asta's point though. Young people should take into consideration that it's inherently dangerous *at all times*, not just in these times. People who signed up for the military on 9/10/01 should have realized that they were possibly signing up to go to war, not just for college money.

 

Even back in the 90s when my hubby's unit was being deployed to Kosovo he had a soldier who wanted C.O. status. It was denied. She had been in the military, let the military put her through college with the green to gold program, she asked to go to Germany because she wanted to travel in Europe. But going to Kosovo for 6 months wasn't in her plan and she wanted out of it. It doesn't work that way. Yes, the military comes with a lot of benefits but you should be aware of the sacrifices you will be asked to make and you should be ready to make them.

 

eta: Maybe most civilians are not really aware of the military's work except in the case of large-scale war but the military has been consistently deployed one place or another the *entire* time my husband has been in the army.

[Christine]

I think that you are right that military service is inherently dangerous in or out of wartime, but I believe that it's statistically more dangerous during times of war.

 

I can't recall exactly when or where this was, I'll have to ask DH when he gets home.

 

I do know that it's been since Iraq started.

 

Most posts have a "drunk driving" death toll board (usually posted at exits). It lists the number of soldier deaths (at that post) due to the result of drunk driving.

 

This one post had an electronic board, and not only listed the drunk driving death toll (for the post only), it also listed total army deaths as the result of military service (this would include training exercises, deployments, accidental deaths, etc.)

 

The drunk driving deaths were DOUBLE those of the "service" deaths.

 

In fact, when the post reached the double mark, there was a newspaper write up. . .

 

As I said, I'll try to get the details from DH.

 

It follows with what my Dad said when he was a company commander in the 60s. He would purposefully schedule lots of exercises because he was able to keep his troops "safer" by doing so. . .