do I really need LA for young elementary?

[fdrinca]

I'm planning for next year, and I'm having problems discerning if we really need a grammar/writing/spelling scope. My school aged children are either fluently reading or will be soon, so we're moving out of the phonics-intensive LA portion into...nouns? I'm just not sure my heart is in it. I also have two other, smaller kids at home, who offer lots of fun and distractions. 
 

We'll do Draw Write Now because the kids love it and I have the books. They also like Explode the Code, so my daughter (rising 1st) will finish this series while my son (rising 2nd) may start Beyond the Code. We do weekly journal entries, though I aspire to do more. I also hope to move letter writing and practical writing (making grocery lists, etc) from our schedule to reality. 

 

What's the benefit - or, more directly - what's the drawback of not formally doing grammar/writing/spelling, assuming that I'm reinforcing proper mechanics in journal writing and spoken language?

[Hunter]

You might like the Ambleside Online LA scope and sequence. If you do, many of the links in this "crisis plan" are complementary to the AO scope and sequence.

 

AO scope and sequnce

https://www.amblesideonline.org/LangArtsScopeSeq.shtml

 

Crisis plan with free links

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/508287-a-crisis-plan-for-language-arts-lots-and-lots-of-free-links/

 

AO forum, if you want support and validation for using the above scope and sequence

https://amblesideonline.org/forum/

[lmrich]

I really liked first language lessons for this age. It was so quick and effective. It took us 15 minutes three times a week.

[MotherOfBoys]

I had someone in logic stage tell me that spelling and mechanics of writing are something that's helpful in that stage. I was wondering when to start grammar too. She said just leave time to get a good grasp on it before the logic stage. The kids have more added to their plate. They need those tools down well. 

 

I hate grammar and am not good at it. We will start rod n staff 2 mostly orally in first grade. I also considered starting a Latin grammar. I'm excited about learning Latin. It looks fun and can teach a little English grammar with it. 

 

I know I don't want to show my kids my dislike and insecurity about grammar. 

[ChrissySC]

There is no actual support for the negative or the positive in delaying grammar and writing. In better words, there is nothing conclusive to say that it is bad or good.  Typically, we teach from the top down (i.e. the sentence and then the parts of a sentence).  However, there is a direct relationship between writing ability and reading.  An excellent writer can have no formal grammar.  There is a relationship between formal phonics study and avid readers.  A good writer will often tribute their reading for their ability to write.  This directly supports classical education. 

 

Consider Benjamin Franklin.  He learned to write through imitation.  He would read and rewrite.  Doesn't this sound like a few writing programs that are classfied as classical?

 

Grammar is an approach to the study of linguistics, or language.  Language will change.  You only need to reference the dialects and decay from old English to present day English to find examples.  With that noted, grammar is a key component in editing.  Writing is a form of communication.  While the message may not suffer, things like punctuation and agreement do make reading the message extremely difficult.

 

Therefore, I advise you to concentrate on the writing and not the grammar in the elementary or grammar stage.  I teach grammar and mechancis beginning in the first grade.  It will be limited and show very little in the actual writing.  I focus on phonics and reading.  If we did not get to study grammar for the week, it is postponed.  We may not even finish the workbook.  I do not consider that this is detrimental or a hinderance.  Once the student can read, the study of grammar is more beneficial.  As many of you know, the child will learn by example.  Remember Benjamin Franklin, who was an avid reader.

 

Another important consideration is oral language.  Even the materials from Peace Hill Press encourage oral narration and summary.  The concept of writing what you speak is a component of the lessons.  There is support for this methodology.  Once again, the language development will be aided by reading.

 

Do you see the common factor?  READING.

 

 

[Lolly]

You are fine. Move along at your leisure. :coolgleamA:

[laughing lioness]

Good readers don't necessarily make good writers. I was an early and voracious reader and writer but seriously struggled with spelling and grammar for YEARS! Teaching your kids the mechanics of writing is a great gift. 

 

Your kids are young, so copywork is a great place to start. I love WWE 1-4. FLL is also very good. Spelling You See is new and excellent, brilliant really, for learning spellers and fun (my review here). I wouldn't stress over it, but I would do some writing/ spelling instruction during the week- 10 -20 minutes at a time. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

You definitely don't need a curriculum.  There is a great thread going now on Writing without a Curriculum if you want to read through it. 

 

As long as they are putting pencil to paper regularly, I wouldn't start worrying too much about formality until maybe 3rd grade. 

 

We do intensive grammar because it makes our bilingual household make more sense.  :-)  But it could just as well be put off a bit.  We don't do any spelling in English, but do dictation based spelling in French.  We do copywork daily as well as original writing 1-2x a week.

[Crimson Wife]

I think it's fine to delay grammar until late elementary or middle school. Spelling you may never need to study formally as some kids are "natural" spellers.

[ChrissySC]

 

struggled with spelling and grammar for YEARS!

 

Reading is still a premise to writing, which includes spelling and grammar.   Bad spelling typically equates to not enough time learning to read.  Not always, but most times. A lack of oral and written material should not be neglected. 

 

Learning's core is reading.  You cannot succeed academically without all manner of reading.  It's applications, regardless, are transferred to both written and oral language. (The OP can focus on reading without the study of grammar.  Immitation will occur despite the formal study.)

 

Even the classical learning style evolves around being able to read well.  If you are following any aspect of classical oriented academics, you should know that many of the books are not light on content or vocabulary.  Sentence structure in Charles Dickens, pick any book, is enough to cause nightmares if it were not for the time spent being taught to read and to read well.  Let me see you tackle Gilgamesh, even abridged!

 

I teach grammar in the grammar stage because the child can absorb it so easily.  However, my approach becomes a top-down once we hit the logic stage. 

Grammar stage - teach the parts for the whole (demonstrating how)

Logic stage - teach the whole and then the parts (demonstrating why)

 

I still say that Benjamin Franklin is an ideal example of how you don't need grammar early, but should be a great reader in order to write and write well.  He purely used classical techniques to study the written word.  He was a re-writer.  He immitated grammar.  Grammar is what improves writing. 

 

Some students, bless their hearts, cannot even begin to put words to paper.  No message = no writing anyway.  How do you learn?  Most of us learn by example.

 

Ack ... enough.  OP is good to go anyway.  :D

 

 

[Hunter]

I'm reading Johnny Tremain right now. I guess the author was HORRIBLE at grammar AND got mad at ANY publisher changes. I stopped reading the intro, because it was full of spoilers and I really forget this book since I read it as a child.

 

How does this pertain to the OP question? I'm not sure. :lol: But I think it does, somehow.

[Ellie]

I'm planning for next year, and I'm having problems discerning if we really need a grammar/writing/spelling scope. My school aged children are either fluently reading or will be soon, so we're moving out of the phonics-intensive LA portion into...nouns? I'm just not sure my heart is in it. I also have two other, smaller kids at home, who offer lots of fun and distractions. 

 

We'll do Draw Write Now because the kids love it and I have the books. They also like Explode the Code, so my daughter (rising 1st) will finish this series while my son (rising 2nd) may start Beyond the Code. We do weekly journal entries, though I aspire to do more. I also hope to move letter writing and practical writing (making grocery lists, etc) from our schedule to reality. 

 

What's the benefit - or, more directly - what's the drawback of not formally doing grammar/writing/spelling, assuming that I'm reinforcing proper mechanics in journal writing and spoken language?

 

You are already doing "language arts." You're doing reading and composition. When you think your dc are ready for formal grammar instruction, add that. Ditto with spelling.

[laughing lioness]

Reading is still a premise to writing, which includes spelling and grammar.   Bad spelling typically equates to not enough time learning to read.  Not always, but most times. A lack of oral and written material should not be neglected. 

 

Learning's core is reading.  You cannot succeed academically without all manner of reading.  It's applications, regardless, are transferred to both written and oral language. (The OP can focus on reading without the study of grammar.  Immitation will occur despite the formal study.)

 

 

Some students, bless their hearts, cannot even begin to put words to paper.  No message = no writing anyway.  How do you learn?  Most of us learn by example.

 

Ack ... enough.  OP is good to go anyway.  :D

 

Your premise is that a good reader will be a good writer. My point was that it's not a given. I have taught all of my kids to read phonetically. They are all very strong readers. I have 2 horrible spellers in the lot.

 

 I learned to read at age 4 with phonics. I was and am a strong reader. I have also done a boat-load of writing, including a 90+ page Master's thesis. My point, again, is that teaching our kids some basic skills in grammar and spelling is a gift.  

 

My point, which you state above, is that "grammar improves writing."  It is not a given, as you assert, that imitation will occur despite formal study.