WWYD...child not caring/applying herself

[I.Dup.]

My 12yo has always made it very clear (as in, every &*#$ day) that she hates math. She is now choosing to not really apply herself. I am having her repeat her last 2 lightunits (we use CLE, and it's by far the best fit we've found- truly) because she failed the test and threw the last lightunit away, when we always keep them, so she can't go back and review. This may mean she will have to be doing math all summer. I told her if she continues to fail her tests, I will have to have her repeat 6th grade math.

 

She also was hired by a friend of mine with a soapmaking business to make her washcloths. Usually she can make 1 in a couple days. It's been 3 weeks now and she hasn't made any. She says it's because dh is "pushing" her (by asking her about it for the last week or so).

 

Dh has had a problem with feeling like a failure and having that be a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. He's super sensitive to any criticism and very prideful, so if he senses any kind of push back from people (like his parents and teachers when he was growing up) he would just quit and refuse to apply himself. It seems this is what dd is doing. She also is very prideful and hates being told what to do. It seems this even extends to her hobbies (knitting)...before she was a knitting fool, suddenly she gets a job and refuses to knit the washcloths that she used to really enjoy.

 

How do I approach this? I lectured her earlier, I am very frustrated. She had fake tears and tried to play the victim. It is SO frustrating to deal with this hard-headed, stubborn personality.

[Anne in CA]

My oldest is like this in many ways. She is almost 26 and since dh and I never figured out how to deal with her (partly because we never agreed) she is always starting and stopping projects, college,jobs ect. Also, she always has to be the victim and can cry like a faucet over nothing at all. I just want to encourage you to deal with it now, because (as you noticed with your dh) this is not something they grow out of. 

 

Making her do the math over summer break is probably wise, but my guess is that when she knows you mean business she may dig in and finish it quicker than you think.  She probably is always testing to see if she can get away with something. My guess is that routine is huge to her and any change in routine causes trouble. It may not bother her right now that doing school over the summer will be keeping her routine going, but later when she wants to have fun she may bust out the work and move on with her life. My oldest had a pattern with that for school work that was both for home school work and brick and mortar school work.

 

One thing I wish I had done more with my oldest is work on getting her to see that other people are important too, and to have empathy for where other people are coming from.to combat some of the pride. Also, I wish I had some how gotten my oldest to see how her victim behavior really looks to others. She would be mortified if she knew how this sort of thing really looks, but she doesn't have the capacity to see herself from the outside in. Maybe you could find books or movies where someone is always playing victim and let her see how this looks to other people?

 

Sorry not to be of more help, but  I just felt for you and wanted to throw some things out there in case no one else had anything.

[I.Dup.]

Anne, thank you, that helps. I want to deal with it now. MIL dealt with it by completely losing it on dh and calling him stupid and a failure (not in so many words, and he's so prideful he may have taken any criticism to mean that, but she did get very frustrated) which totally backfired.

 

I might be tempted to offer a bribe to apply herself more with math. 

 

My 12 year old will apply himself when he is interested.  He isn't always interested in the stuff I want him to do.  So sometimes I resort to bribes.  I just can't make him fully understand why something is important so I dangle something important in front of him.  For example, I signed him up for an HTML course.  He didn't want to do it.  He claims he already knows the stuff (I don't think he knows as much as he thinks he does).  I signed him up because it's a short 3 week course, it was free, it's for a useful skill, and I want him to start to take direction and get feedback from someone else.  He doesn't care about any of that.  So I offered him $20 to successfully complete the course and put effort into it.  He is totally motivated by that.

 

A bribe may work for math, but for a job that she was THRILLED to get, it seems so silly to have to bribe her just to complete it...? I don't want to get into the pattern of having to bribe her just to do normal, necessary stuff. She already tends to be pretty spoiled. I know I need to toughen her up, but I'm always so afraid that I'm ruining their delicate "self esteem" or whathaveyou. :glare:

[Ravin]

The job has natural consequences. If she doesn't do it, she won't get paid.

I agree with others that you'll get farther by finding positive reinforcements that motivate her, than by giving only negative attention to what she isn't doing.

[SadieMarie]

Sometimes failing is a lesson too.  If she doesn't get the wash clothes done she has to deal with the consequences of not earning any money and disappointing a family friend.  I knit and I do so understand the joy of knitting for yourself vs knitting something someone requests.  I would not say anything more about that if I were you, but that is just me.  I have a child who hated math for a long time because of an LD and we took a year and just did LoF until she liked it again.  Then I added back a more traditional math curriculum, but we still have Fred on Fridays.  If there is no way to approach it in terms of finding a way for her to like math, and after all not everyone does, I think rewarding her (OK, bribing her lol) would be fine. But then you have to be able to deal with her choosing not to do it and not getting the reward (or accepting the consequence if you go that route) kwim?  Sometimes as parents I think we forget that kids do have choices.  It would be nice, when it comes to things like math lol, if they didn't, but they really do.  They can refuse, as your husband did, if they are prepared to accept the consequences, whatever they might be.  And there are kids, and adults too for that matter, who care enough about feeling like they are in control of their own lives to take some pretty harsh consequences.  

[catz]

Oh I totally understand.  My son was totally into making soaps for a craft fare to make money.  Well, that fizzled.  I didn't help.  I didn't insist.  I had donated supplies I already had so whatever.  He didn't end up ready for the fare and we did not go. 
 
I'm not saying EVERYTHING.  I'm talking something where really there is nothing at this point or even in the near future to be gained.  Like 6th grade math.

I'm putting this in my back pocket. My 7th grader is in a major slump!

[I.Dup.]

Thank you all.

 

 

The job has natural consequences. If she doesn't do it, she won't get paid.

I agree with others that you'll get farther by finding positive reinforcements that motivate her, than by giving only negative attention to what she isn't doing.

 

I understand. But for this job, it appeared to be a huge positive reinforcement. She's been wanting opportunities to make more money for a long time. She is 12 going on 20. She has been begging for more ways to show she is more responsible. Now she finally has it and isn't even attempting to apply herself. I don't get it. This isn't the first time she's acted this way, it seems to be a pattern.

[Anne in CA]

You have got it right that it is a pattern. I wish I could have seen it when my oldest was 12, but there were too many complications to see anything to do with her clearly. I read in a sports psychology book that some young people only feel they are independent when they are doing the opposite of what is expected of them. I do think that is the case with my oldest, she is always asking our advice, even now, and doing the opposite. It may be the case with your dd too. She knows everyone will approve of her making the washcloths, and she may even crave approval (my dd does), but it may be that making them will show she is doing what your friend, your dh and you want, so she feels trapped that she can't do it or she is not being true to herself. 

[I.Dup.]

You have got it right that it is a pattern. I wish I could have seen it when my oldest was 12, but there were too many complications to see anything to do with her clearly. I read in a sports psychology book that some young people only feel they are independent when they are doing the opposite of what is expected of them. I do think that is the case with my oldest, she is always asking our advice, even now, and doing the opposite. It may be the case with your dd too. She knows everyone will approve of her making the washcloths, and she may even crave approval (my dd does), but it may be that making them will show she is doing what your friend, your dh and you want, so she feels trapped that she can't do it or she is not being true to herself. 

 

yes, I think you are right. So frustrating! I know you recommended helping her have empathy for others...and she does...it's just this "drive" or whatever it is is so strong. What else do you wish you had done with your daughter, looking back?

[Anne in CA]

Looking back I wish I had somehow praised her work ethic instead of her talent. She does have work ethic, but does not like to do work that is expected of her (that is, her job for pay), but she will volunteer endless amounts of time faithfully working her heart out. I wish we had had honest talks about this while she was still at home so that she had our perspective on it at least. She is not actually lazy, but she hates to work for money. She does not mind being financially strapped. After all, she feels she has more freedom begging for money than she does doing what other people want at work. She has never had a boss she respects. 

 

Also, I wish we had given her more accountability and not accepted so many excuses. That is probably my biggest parenting regret for her. The issues between us now are huge and she believes she can "explain away" things she does not want to do. She really does not seem to understand that we all know she is making excuses. My poor MIL can hardly talk to her because is breaks her heart to hear her make plans we all know she won't keep up with. I don't think I needed to punish her for her excuses, just call her out on them in a fair, reasonable tone of voice and talk rationally. Easier said than done, right? Lol.

[Momofeat]

My 14yo dd has gone through times like this. She is also extremely strong-willed.

 

What has worked for us: For a time, we used ALEKS math, and that helped take some pressure off our relationship. When we switched back to CLE, I required that she have a certain amount of school work done before doing anything in the evenings. This included things that others might think you should not hold over a kids head, like volunteer opportunities and youth group. She didn't like it, but she has only missed one event for school work since we implemented this policy. I do not hound her. I just check to make sure it's done. 

 

In the case of this job, I would do the same thing others have suggested and let the chips fall where they may--with one caveat. There needs to be a deadline. If your friend didn't set one, I would ask her to. That way you are completely out of the equation while your dd has a "life in the real world" experience. We have certain things that my dd must pay for herself, and if she doesn't earn enough money to pay for them, she doesn't get to go. While I may give her suggestions or let her know of opportunities, I let her decide which jobs to take. 

[joannqn]

I don't have the answers.  I have a 14 year old with very little motivation.  I can say that I feel the book "How to Talk so Teens will Listen" has helped me see where I've contributed to the problem, and I hope I will be able to see some positive results as I practice and get better at applying the skills taught in the book.  I've been using the same skills taught in "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen" with good results with my 4 year old.  

Both books are essentially the same with only a few chapters being different.  The kids book has a couple of extra chapters relevant to older kids.  The teens book has an extra chapter that is only relevant to teens.  So for older kids, there is benefit from reading both books.