bailey Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I've recently started home schooling again and have a question about Saxon math. My 6th grader is going through 7/6 quite easily and I'm wondering if it would be okay to skip 8/7 and move right into Algebra 1/2. I would appreciate thoughts on this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Algebra 1/2 is nearly the same as 87. Choose one or the other. Both my kids did 8/7. My son didn't do amazing so we moved onto Algebra 1/2 where he flourished so we only did about 40 lessons and moved onto Algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I would not skip 8/7 as it is (IMHO) the strongest of the elementary level books. Once you're done with 8/7 you can move directly into Algebra I (this is also what is recommended by the publisher). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I've recently started home schooling again and have a question about Saxon math. My 6th grader is going through 7/6 quite easily and I'm wondering if it would be okay to skip 8/7 and move right into Algebra 1/2. I would appreciate thoughts on this. Thanks. I would not skip 76. Children who do well in Math 76 to to Math 87, then Alg. 1. Children who struggle through Math 76 do Alg. 1/2, then Alg. 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 8/7 and algebra 1/2 are interchangeable. The only reason to do algebra 1/2 after 8/7 is if your child really struggled with 8/7 and ended with c scores. Then another year of pre-algebra might be useful. However, 8/7 is the preferred book, so choose that and then most kids go from 8/7 to algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybreaking Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I would not skip 76. Children who do well in Math 76 to to Math 87, then Alg. 1. Children who struggle through Math 76 do Alg. 1/2, then Alg. 1. Hmmm, interesting. I've always heard the opposite, since Alg 1/2 is harder than Math 8/7. (If one looks at the placement tests, a student has to pass the 7/6 part to be placed into 8/7, and likewise pass the 8/7 part to be placed into Algebra 1/2. Also, in skimming through the books, Algebra 1/2 has more complex problems than Math 8/7.) I've always heard that a student who struggled in 7/6 should take 8/7 and then if they needed more practice before Algebra, they should then also go through Algebra 1/2. Those who do well in 7/6 can go directly into Algebra 1/2. Here's a few paragraphs from Art Reed's website on homeschooling with Saxon: http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2012.php#0412 So what Saxon math book does a student who has completed Math 76 use? Well, that depends upon how well the student did in the Math 76 book. The key word is "successfully completed," not just "completed" Math 76. If a student completed the entirety of the Math 76 textbook and his last five tests in that book were eighty or better, he would have "successfully completed" Math 76 and he could move on to the Algebra 1/2 book. However, if the student's last five test grades were all less than seventy-five, that student has indicated that he will in all likelihood experience difficulty in the Algebra 1/2 materials and should therefore proceed first through the Math 87 textbook. While both the Math 87 and the Algebra textbooks will get the student ready for the Algebra 1 course, the Math 87 book starts off a bit slower with more review, allowing the student to "catch up." The student who then moves successfully through the Math 87 textbook, receiving eighties or better on the last five tests, can then skip the Algebra 1/2 book and move directly to the Algebra 1 textbook. However, if the student finishes the Math 87 book and the last five test grades reflect difficulty with the material, that student should then be moved into the Algebra 1/2 book to receive another - but different - look at "pre-algebra" before attempting the Algebra 1 course. Students fail algebra because they do not understand fractions, decimals and percents; they fail calculus because they do not understand the basics of algebra. Attempting to "fast track" a student who had weak Math 76 test scores - into Algebra 1/2 - then on to Algebra 1, will most certainly result in frustration if not failure in either Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 8/7 has been beefed up a lot in the latest edition so it depends on which edition you're using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hmmm, interesting. I've always heard the opposite, since Alg 1/2 is harder than Math 8/7. (If one looks at the placement tests, a student has to pass the 7/6 part to be placed into 8/7, and likewise pass the 8/7 part to be placed into Algebra 1/2. Also, in skimming through the books, Algebra 1/2 has more complex problems than Math 8/7.) I've always heard that a student who struggled in 7/6 should take 8/7 and then if they needed more practice before Algebra, they should then also go through Algebra 1/2. Those who do well in 7/6 can go directly into Algebra 1/2. Here's a few paragraphs from Art Reed's website on homeschooling with Saxon: http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2012.php#0412 So what Saxon math book does a student who has completed Math 76 use? Well, that depends upon how well the student did in the Math 76 book. The key word is "successfully completed," not just "completed" Math 76. If a student completed the entirety of the Math 76 textbook and his last five tests in that book were eighty or better, he would have "successfully completed" Math 76 and he could move on to the Algebra 1/2 book. However, if the student's last five test grades were all less than seventy-five, that student has indicated that he will in all likelihood experience difficulty in the Algebra 1/2 materials and should therefore proceed first through the Math 87 textbook. While both the Math 87 and the Algebra textbooks will get the student ready for the Algebra 1 course, the Math 87 book starts off a bit slower with more review, allowing the student to "catch up." The student who then moves successfully through the Math 87 textbook, receiving eighties or better on the last five tests, can then skip the Algebra 1/2 book and move directly to the Algebra 1 textbook. However, if the student finishes the Math 87 book and the last five test grades reflect difficulty with the material, that student should then be moved into the Algebra 1/2 book to receive another - but different - look at "pre-algebra" before attempting the Algebra 1 course. Students fail algebra because they do not understand fractions, decimals and percents; they fail calculus because they do not understand the basics of algebra. Attempting to "fast track" a student who had weak Math 76 test scores - into Algebra 1/2 - then on to Algebra 1, will most certainly result in frustration if not failure in either Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1. Algebra 1/2 is not "harder" than Math 87. Algebra 1/2 has *never* been "harder" than Math 87. The original sequence was Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Algebra 1. Then Math 87 was written (and personally, I've always liked it better than Alg. 1/2). Students who zoomed through Math 76 did Alg. 1/2, then Algebra 1; students who struggled through Math 76 did 87, then Alg. 1. At some point--and I don't keep up with the dates; I just know that it is so *at this point* :-) -- the sequence became Math 76, then Math 87 if the students zoomed through Math 76, then Alg. 1. I appreciate Art Reed, but this is what the publisher recommends: What do you recommend for students after they have completed Math 7/6?The recommended path after finishing Math 7/6 is to take Math 8/7. If your child finishes Math 8/7 with at least 80% mastery, skip ahead to Algebra 1. In previous editions, many people skipped Math 8/7 because they found it to be a weaker text than Algebra ½. In newer editions, pre-algebra content has been added to Math 8/7, making it a much stronger program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 87 was written by Hake as the last book in his middle school curriculum. Algebra 1/2 was written by Saxon after algebra 1 was first written as the entry level text. 87 and Algebra 1/2 overlap and show the different author's teaching philosophies. Saxon was narrower and more back to basics. Hake is wider and fuzzier, and getting progressively wider and fuzzier. The newer editions of Saxon Algebra 1 are getting progressively harder to jump into as an entry level text without having done earlier levels of Saxon, as Hake continues to add his special touches and reduces the amount of pre-algebra review. I used the 2nd edition of Algebra 1 and 2 back in the 90 and will continue to use those editions. Algebra 1 second edition can be jumped into with no prior Saxon at all. I think it's only a matter of time before Hake removes 54-87 and algebra 1/2 entirely from the market, and just sells books that Saxon had no input into at all. There are a lot of editions and it's all kinda complicated. And remember that video lesson authors have some conflict of interest when talking about the editions. I'm not saying they are wrong, but to just beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Just going to echo the general consensus that you'd probably be better off going into 8/7, skipping A.1/2 (unless she shows a need for another hit) and going into Algebra. Long ago and far away, I taught 8th graders out of 1/2 and I'm really not seeing a significant difference between it and 8/7 that Buck did last year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 There are a lot of editions and it's all kinda complicated. And remember that video lesson authors have some conflict of interest when talking about the editions. I'm not saying they are wrong, but to just beware. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daybreaking Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Algebra 1/2 is not "harder" than Math 87. Algebra 1/2 has *never* been "harder" than Math 87. The original sequence was Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Algebra 1. Then Math 87 was written (and personally, I've always liked it better than Alg. 1/2). Students who zoomed through Math 76 did Alg. 1/2, then Algebra 1; students who struggled through Math 76 did 87, then Alg. 1. At some point--and I don't keep up with the dates; I just know that it is so *at this point* :-) -- the sequence became Math 76, then Math 87 if the students zoomed through Math 76, then Alg. 1. I appreciate Art Reed, but this is what the publisher recommends: I couldn't figure out how to quote your entire post, but anyhow, it seems the publisher is giving conflicting information. From the placement test: The Score • Fifteen or fewer correct from Questions 1–20 and the student is an average-to-accelerated fourth grader: Student may begin Math 5/4. • Sixteen or more correct from Questions 1–20: Student may begin Math 6/5. • Sixteen or more correct from Questions 1–20 and 16 or more correct from Questions 21–40: Student may begin Math 7/6. • Sixteen or more correct from Questions 21–40 and 16 or more correct from Questions 41–60: Student may begin Math 8/7. • Sixteen or more correct from Questions 41–60 and 16 or more correct from Questions 61–80: Student may begin Algebra 1/2 . • Sixteen or more correct from Questions 61–80 and 16 or more correct from Questions 81–100: Student may begin Algebra 1 or be given an additional test for possible placement in a higherlevel text. It seems odd that students would need to get more questions correct to go into Algebra 1/2, if both 8/7 and Algebra 1/2 are pretty much the same. I own the current editions of both 8/7 and Algebra 1/2. The reason I feel Algebra 1/2 is harder is based on looking at later lessons in the books (after lesson 100). For example, in the computation section of the homework for one particular lesson, 8/7 has 4 problems involving variables and the other computation problems involve basic squares or square roots. Around the same lesson in Algebra 1/2, there are 13 problems invoving variables and the other computation problems go beyond square roots, to cube roots and even roots of degree 4. For another example, both the 8/7 and Algebra lessons asked students to solve a proportion; however, the 8/7 proportion was much easier, involving two whole numbers and one decimal, all of which were positive. The Algebra 1/2 proportion involved fractions, one of which was a mixed number and two of which were negative. I've seen this trend over and over as I've looked through both books, which is why I believe Algebra 1/2 is harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bailey Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Thank you all for your input; it is helpful and has given me some things to consider. The reason I asked about this is that I already own Algebra 1/2 (bought for my older son) and was wondering if I could save money by using it instead of buying 8/7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott777 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hi Bailey, I am in the same situation as you with my 6th grade son. He breezed through 7/6 and finished the last 5 tests with over a 96% average. So Art Reed advises to jump right to Alg 1/2. However, after emailing with Stephen Hake the author of the middle school books, we decided to go into Math 8/7. I agree with Mr. Hake about middle school math and actually took him up on his suggestion of checking out the new Course 3 book, that he suggest using after Math 8/7 and before John Saxon's Algebra books. I looked over the Course 3 book and really like it very much. It is stronger than Alg 1/2 in my opinion and would really leave a strong middle school math foundation. Don't want to put another monkey wrench in you thinking and decisions; you would be fine without Course 3 but here is the interview where you can see Mr. Hakes thinking. http://homeschoolingodyssey.wordpress.com/2014/02/27/saxon-math-author-stephen-hake-part-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcinnc Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 We did 8/7 and then went to Algebra 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 As far as I understand, 8/7 has more arithmetic and reviews more general arithmetic concepts than algebra 1/2. I think what the publishers website says makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaOz Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I have Art Reed's book about using Saxon Math and, as quoted above, he recommends averaging the last 5 tests as a guide to where to go next. He says the two books cover the same content but Algebra 1/2 has less review and therefore moves faster than 8/7. Either book leads straight to Algebra 1. We followed this advice with dd13. She averaged around 90% at the end of 76 so went on to Alg1/2. She's now in Alg 1 and doing well with it so we have found it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Saxon is not what Saxon was. Whether you like or do not like the changes, we all have to deal with the confusion of a lot of changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidusername Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Based on email correspondence with Stephen Hake, we are doing 7/6 followed by 8/7 followed by the new Course 3 book. Then Algebra 1 and 2. We will be using the old Algebra books (3rd editions), not the new Houghton-Mifflin ones, which are terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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