Right load for 9th grade?

[raristy]

My child will be in 9th grade this fall. She's taken a few high school classes since 7th grade. This year (8th) she's taken a high school level introduction to Great Books. She loves this class and is doing well; she keeps up with the assignments and deliverables by herself. She enjoys reading yet is not her most favorite activity or past time; so the fact she loves this class says much about this program, the instructor and its selection of books (which for the most part she's enjoyed). She doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college; she does prefer to go out-of-state and to a good school.

 

Next year there is a continuation of this Great Books class, a bit more reading. It is dual credit and for high school it counts as both an English and a history credit. She really wants to pursue this class. I like that idea but wonder if is much more reading than necessary. I would like for her to take an AP geography class, so she can experience AP classes as I think that might help her validate her homeschool high school and is more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits. She is willing to take this class, but not sure if she's super eager. She is bright and works hard but gets stressed somewhat easily and I wonder if these two classes might be too much of a stretch for her (or at least for my other kids and me; I'm hoping to have a fairly peaceful atmosphere). I've suggested an online great books class with a smaller reading list, but she prefers the one in person from the program she's been attending.

 

1. Is one dual credit English, AP Geography, algebra II, Latin I (mostly review), chemistry (rather light curriculum and she has an inclination for science so should be able to get it) and an elective a fair load for a 9th grader?

2. At which age do students typically show a drive for pursuing their school courses? Should I seek her input but continue to just say this is what you are taking?

 

She is my oldest and I was the youngest. My siblings are much older, i was born and raised in a country where education is a privilege, I saw enough people who wanted to study but didn't have the resources or had to study part time because couldn't afford their education that I didn't have the heart to take my own education for granted. I want to be culturally sensitive to my daughter, she is very reasonable, mature and not spoiled, but at fourteen my parents were not behind me reminding me to fill out application forms. I was jumping at and keeping up with any little opportunity that arose. Do your hard working 9th graders need you to tell them these classes are what you need to take, finish the applications if you want phone privileges, etc? I want her to be driven and seize these opportunities, but will that come later in time? Am I expecting too much for a child who unlike me is rather foreign to the realities of a third world country?

 

May my parenting and expectations be in tune with her realities and not mine. I want to guide her as much and as patiently as needed, and to know when to hold her and when to let her soar? Thoughts???

 

Many thanks, Rosa

[snowbeltmom]

My child will be in 9th grade this fall. She's taken a few high school classes since 7th grade. This year (8th) she's taken a high school level introduction to Great Books. She loves this class and is doing well; she keeps up with the assignments and deliverables by herself. She enjoys reading yet is not her most favorite activity or past time; so the fact she loves this class says much about this program, the instructor and its selection of books (which for the most part she's enjoyed). She doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college; she does prefer to go out-of-state and to a good school.

 

Next year there is a continuation of this Great Books class, a bit more reading. It is dual credit and for high school it counts as both an English and a history credit. She really wants to pursue this class. Since this has been such a positive experience and your daughter wants to pursue this class, I would definitely have her take it. I like that idea but wonder if is much more reading than necessary. I would like for her to take an AP geography class, so she can experience AP classes as I think that might help her validate her homeschool high school and is more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits. Imo, your dual enrollment class is also providing the outside validation.  If the dual credit class counts as both a history and English credit, I would not have her take AP Geography. She is willing to take this class, but not sure if she's super eager. She is bright and works hard but gets stressed somewhat easily and I wonder if these two classes might be too much of a stretch for her (or at least for my other kids and me; I'm hoping to have a fairly peaceful atmosphere). I've suggested an online great books class with a smaller reading list, but she prefers the one in person from the program she's been attending.

 

1. Is one dual credit English, AP Geography, algebra II, Latin I (mostly review), chemistry (rather light curriculum and she has an inclination for science so should be able to get it) and an elective a fair load for a 9th grader?

2. At which age do students typically show a drive for pursuing their school courses? Should I seek her input but continue to just say this is what you are taking? At the high school level, my kids have input in what they are studying.  However, they don't have the final say - there are subjects that I make them study.

 

She is my oldest and I was the youngest. My siblings are much older, i was born and raised in a country where education is a privilege, I saw enough people who wanted to study but didn't have the resources or had to study part time because couldn't afford their education that I didn't have the heart to take my own education for granted. I want to be culturally sensitive to my daughter, she is very reasonable, mature and not spoiled, but at fourteen my parents were not behind me reminding me to fill out application forms. I was jumping at and keeping up with any little opportunity that arose. Do your hard working 9th graders need you to tell them these classes are what you need to take, finish the applications if you want phone privileges, etc? I want her to be driven and seize these opportunities, but will that come later in time? Am I expecting too much for a child who unlike me is rather foreign to the realities of a third world country? I am very involved in my kids' course selections - I am the one that researches the options, determines what classes they need for the colleges on their lists, etc..  Once my kids make decisions based on the options I presented, I am the one who registers them for the class (when applicable), purchases the textbooks, etc.

 

May my parenting and expectations be in tune with her realities and not mine. I want to guide her as much and as patiently as needed, and to know when to hold her and when to let her soar? Thoughts???

 

Many thanks, Rosa

 

[Corraleno]

Next year there is a continuation of this Great Books class, a bit more reading. It is dual credit and for high school it counts as both an English and a history credit. She really wants to pursue this class. I like that idea but wonder if is much more reading than necessary. I would like for her to take an AP geography class, so she can experience AP classes as I think that might help her validate her homeschool high school and is more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits.

 

When you say "dual credit" — is this an accredited college course, that she's taking either online or on campus? How is it listed in the college's course catalog, as English or History? How will you list it on your HS transcript, if you are trying to count one college class for two HS subjects?

 

Also, I wouldn't assume that APs are "more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits." This isn't necessarily the case, especially with some of the "lighter" APs like Geography and Environmental Science. 

[73349]

Would it be an option to do the AP the following year? I'd really be inclined to let a dedicated student choose her own courses.

[PeterPan]

At this time in 8th, dd had no opinion on 9th.  This time in 9th, dd has a ton of opinion on 10th.  You're on the cusp of a developmental leap, so I wouldn't worry about that.  It doesn't make sense to do AP *and* an aggressive GB class, both in history, if she's not game for it or wanting it.  It's very easy to overshoot for 9th.  You have some really basic credits to knock out like art, health, PE, that kind of thing.  

 

I'm confused about what you mean by applications.  I don't expect my dd to enroll herself in her classes.  I expect her to keep up with the assignments and work for her online classes, absolutely, but I don't expect her to enroll herself.  You can't replicate what you grew up in, but you also have personality differences.  Just because she's not doing it now doesn't mean she won't be able to do it when she's 18, kwim?  There's a time for everything, and it's OK to have a range when traits develop.  She probably does some things well that you didn't do at that age.  :)

[KarenNC]

1. Is one dual credit English, AP Geography, algebra II, Latin I (mostly review), chemistry (rather light curriculum and she has an inclination for science so should be able to get it) and an elective a fair load for a 9th grader?

 

If I am understanding you correctly, by "dual credit" you mean it counts as both high school level English and history, not that it counts as high school and college credit for English (dual enrollment). What you've listed looks like 7 credits (counting the English as 2 credits), which on the face of it doesn't sound excessive (from my perspective--having a rising 9th grader, so take it for what that's worth :) ), but the workload of the English and AP geo may be more than is reasonable or more heavily weighted to those subjects than you might want. We're going to do government/civics alongside world geography/cultures and current events, but they are not AP level classes. I agree that there is value in continuing with the class and teacher she likes, especially if it includes things like presentations in front of the class (which can be hard to get in homeschooling). Enthusiasm about a rigorous class can count for much more than an intro AP at this stage of the game, IMO. 

 

Has she taken the SAT or ACT yet? Those will help verify her grades. Also, don't forget to look at things like SAT subject tests for potential outside verification, as some colleges require them, particularly from homeschoolers, and won't substitute AP scores for them. In my plans, fwiw, I'm more concerned about getting outside verification of grades in classes in which I'm the teacher than in outsourced ones.

 

I also have a rising 9th grader who's been doing some high school level classes and doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college. I am involving her in the class decisions (which is why we are doing bio instead of environmental science and government instead of world history this year), but no, she is not pulling me along behind her at this point. She does do a good job of being responsible for deadlines and assignments in her outside classes. I was debating having her take AP geography next year for the same reasons you mention, but I've decided it may be more than will be optimal for her, especially as this is one for which I have read a number of colleges don't give credit. We're going to do a half-credit honors geography and world cultures instead, alongside a half credit of government/civics and possibly economics (also a half credit). We'll look at APs starting in 10th grade, if things go according to plan.

 

Is there a reason, since she is inclined toward science, that she's doing a light chemistry curriculum? Might it be better to go for a more rigorous chemistry program and skip geography this year, subbing another elective like health/PE, or a fine arts class (maybe more than one, if they are half credits)? To me, that would keep more doors open for her, as she doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college, than the light chemistry or AP geography, as well as keeping the option for a later AP chem or dual enrollment class.  An elective your daughter might find interesting is a college and career exploration class. We're going to do that with my daughter this fall. I'm hoping it will help open her eyes to some additional options as well as give her a sense of what it will take to get into college and beyond so that she will have more of a vested interest and ownership of the process.

[~Amanda~]

Do you mind sharing the great books class?

[raristy]

Do you mind sharing the great books class?

These are the books she'll be reading, is this what you were looking for? To me it feels like a heavy load. I would rather have her take the Harvey's Center online Great Books II, a solid list of books, deliberately more concise to ensure the students' comprehension is good.  I do see what my daughter points out, interacting with people (she is a people person), the presentations, etc. I do love the program as well, just think reading this will take a lot of her time and think the same goal can be accomplished with reading fewer of these marvelous works..

 

Beowulf

Volsunga Saga

The New Lay of Sigurd - J.R.R. Tolkien

The Song of Roland

Sir Gaiwan and the Green Knight

Morte D' Arthur (Selections) - Thomas Mallory

Faerie Queen, Books I, II - Edmund Spencer

Don Quixote - Miguel De Cervantes

On Loving God - Bernard of Clairvaux 

Ethics - Peter Abelard

The Divine Comedy - Dante

Selections from the Summa Theologica - Thomas Aquinas (From the Faith and Reason collection, 

Hacket Publishing)

The Prince - Niccolo Machiavelli

Utopia - Thomas More

In Praise of Folly - Erasmus

Selections form St Julian of Norwich

Small Catechism, Sermons on the Catechism - Martin Luther

Selections from Institutes of the Christian Religion - John Calvin

Selections from St John of the Cross

Hamlet, Julius Caesar, Henry V, The Tragedy of King Lear, Merchant of Venice, Sonnets - William 

Shakespeare

The Holy Sonnets - John Donne

Selections from St. Francis of Assisi

Selections from Holy Living and Dying - Jeremy Taylor

Selections from Copernicus

Paradise Lost - John Milton

[raristy]

When you say "dual credit" — is this an accredited college course, that she's taking either online or on campus? How is it listed in the college's course catalog, as English or History? How will you list it on your HS transcript, if you are trying to count one college class for two HS subjects?

 

Also, I wouldn't assume that APs are "more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits." This isn't necessarily the case, especially with some of the "lighter" APs like Geography and Environmental Science. 

 

Yes, it is from an accredited local university and the course is listed as a History credit in the Texas catalog. Other universities here in Texas would accept it as a such (there is a shared credit system between the universities here in Texas). Outside of Texas is to the university's discretion. I am not sure how I will be listing it in the HS transcript. The program director told me that for High School it counts as both an English credit and a History credit. Do you think there might be a problem in counting it as a English and History for high school and one History college credit?

 

Thanks for letting me know this info about APs, I did not know that. Good to know that probably the lighter Geography AP might not be worth the effort (aka stress)?  Thanks much.

[raristy]

At this time in 8th, dd had no opinion on 9th.  This time in 9th, dd has a ton of opinion on 10th.  You're on the cusp of a developmental leap, so I wouldn't worry about that.  It doesn't make sense to do AP *and* an aggressive GB class, both in history, if she's not game for it or wanting it.  It's very easy to overshoot for 9th.  You have some really basic credits to knock out like art, health, PE, that kind of thing.  

 

I'm confused about what you mean by applications.  I don't expect my dd to enroll herself in her classes.  I expect her to keep up with the assignments and work for her online classes, absolutely, but I don't expect her to enroll herself.  You can't replicate what you grew up in, but you also have personality differences.  Just because she's not doing it now doesn't mean she won't be able to do it when she's 18, kwim?  There's a time for everything, and it's OK to have a range when traits develop.  She probably does some things well that you didn't do at that age.   :)

Thanks so much for this feedback... True, she has done so many things at her age that I didn't do. Your statement brought me great insight and conviction, I have to look at her as an individual not as a mommy mirror... Thank you, thank you :)...

[raristy]

If I am understanding you correctly, by "dual credit" you mean it counts as both high school level English and history, not that it counts as high school and college credit for English (dual enrollment). What you've listed looks like 7 credits (counting the English as 2 credits), which on the face of it doesn't sound excessive (from my perspective--having a rising 9th grader, so take it for what that's worth :) ), but the workload of the English and AP geo may be more than is reasonable or more heavily weighted to those subjects than you might want. We're going to do government/civics alongside world geography/cultures and current events, but they are not AP level classes. I agree that there is value in continuing with the class and teacher she likes, especially if it includes things like presentations in front of the class (which can be hard to get in homeschooling). Enthusiasm about a rigorous class can count for much more than an intro AP at this stage of the game, IMO. 

 

Has she taken the SAT or ACT yet? Those will help verify her grades. Also, don't forget to look at things like SAT subject tests for potential outside verification, as some colleges require them, particularly from homeschoolers, and won't substitute AP scores for them. In my plans, fwiw, I'm more concerned about getting outside verification of grades in classes in which I'm the teacher than in outsourced ones.

 

I also have a rising 9th grader who's been doing some high school level classes and doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college. I am involving her in the class decisions (which is why we are doing bio instead of environmental science and government instead of world history this year), but no, she is not pulling me along behind her at this point. She does do a good job of being responsible for deadlines and assignments in her outside classes. I was debating having her take AP geography next year for the same reasons you mention, but I've decided it may be more than will be optimal for her, especially as this is one for which I have read a number of colleges don't give credit. We're going to do a half-credit honors geography and world cultures instead, alongside a half credit of government/civics and possibly economics (also a half credit). We'll look at APs starting in 10th grade, if things go according to plan.

 

Is there a reason, since she is inclined toward science, that she's doing a light chemistry curriculum? Might it be better to go for a more rigorous chemistry program and skip geography this year, subbing another elective like health/PE, or a fine arts class (maybe more than one, if they are half credits)? To me, that would keep more doors open for her, as she doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college, than the light chemistry or AP geography, as well as keeping the option for a later AP chem or dual enrollment class.  An elective your daughter might find interesting is a college and career exploration class. We're going to do that with my daughter this fall. I'm hoping it will help open her eyes to some additional options as well as give her a sense of what it will take to get into college and beyond so that she will have more of a vested interest and ownership of the process.

Many thanks for your great input :).... So helpful!!! Sorry for the confusion, according to what the program director has informed me, the class is a college History credit. For high school it counts as two credits: one for English and one for History. She hasn't taken the SAT or ACT. As for the science, the one she is taking is the one that is most feasible for me to drive her to. I wish it would be a bit more meaty, but with the traffic here it's hard for me to commit to anything beyond 20 miles.  She loves doing experiments and I think that is how she learns science best; so I figured she'll get to do that in this class, and in the end it'll probably be much better than what I can put together here at home with little siblings. 

 

Can you please tell me more about your college and career exploration class? That sounds very interesting. How are you going to teach that? I think it would be very beneficial for my daughter also. Please let me know. Thanks much :).

[KarenNC]

Many thanks for your great input :).... So helpful!!! Sorry for the confusion, according to what the program director has informed me, the class is a college History credit. For high school it counts as two credits: one for English and one for History. She hasn't taken the SAT or ACT. As for the science, the one she is taking is the one that is most feasible for me to drive her to. I wish it would be a bit more meaty, but with the traffic here it's hard for me to commit to anything beyond 20 miles.  She loves doing experiments and I think that is how she learns science best; so I figured she'll get to do that in this class, and in the end it'll probably be much better than what I can put together here at home with little siblings. 

 

Can you please tell me more about your college and career exploration class? That sounds very interesting. How are you going to teach that? I think it would be very beneficial for my daughter also. Please let me know. Thanks much :).

 

Understood. As to the college and career class, I'm afraid I can't be much help--I'm outsourcing this one as well :). Our local school system has just started offering homeschoolers the option of registering for 2 credits a semester of online courses for free. The source is APEX Learning. Unfortunately, they are all asynchronous and have limited teacher support, so I have reservations about using them for some subjects, but the career exploration one seems like a reasonable topic for that type of class structure. You can see them here http://www.apexlearning.com/courses --we're looking at College and Career Prep I and II (both are half credit and the school runs on a block schedule, so if things work as I think they will, she will do them back to back in the fall). If you click on the arrows after the course, you can see a description and the option of a syllabus, which may give you some ideas. I honestly don't expect that it will be a heavyweight course, but she's interested in the topic and I hope it might spark some ideas for direction. It would be *much* easier to work on high school if I had a better idea of which colleges or even which majors interest her. I do realize I need to leave room for that to change dramatically, though. I know I changed my major 4-5 times in college. :)

[at the beach]

My child will be in 9th grade this fall. She's taken a few high school classes since 7th grade. This year (8th) she's taken a high school level introduction to Great Books. She loves this class and is doing well; she keeps up with the assignments and deliverables by herself. She enjoys reading yet is not her most favorite activity or past time; so the fact she loves this class says much about this program, the instructor and its selection of books (which for the most part she's enjoyed). She doesn't yet know what she wants to do in college; she does prefer to go out-of-state and to a good school.

 

Next year there is a continuation of this Great Books class, a bit more reading. It is dual credit and for high school it counts as both an English and a history credit. She really wants to pursue this class. I like that idea but wonder if is much more reading than necessary. I would like for her to take an AP geography class, so she can experience AP classes as I think that might help her validate her homeschool high school and is more widely accepted by colleges than dual credits. She is willing to take this class, but not sure if she's super eager. She is bright and works hard but gets stressed somewhat easily and I wonder if these two classes might be too much of a stretch for her (or at least for my other kids and me; I'm hoping to have a fairly peaceful atmosphere). I've suggested an online great books class with a smaller reading list, but she prefers the one in person from the program she's been attending.

 

1. Is one dual credit English, AP Geography, algebra II, Latin I (mostly review), chemistry (rather light curriculum and she has an inclination for science so should be able to get it) and an elective a fair load for a 9th grader?

2. At which age do students typically show a drive for pursuing their school courses? Should I seek her input but continue to just say this is what you are taking?

 

She is my oldest and I was the youngest. My siblings are much older, i was born and raised in a country where education is a privilege, I saw enough people who wanted to study but didn't have the resources or had to study part time because couldn't afford their education that I didn't have the heart to take my own education for granted. I want to be culturally sensitive to my daughter, she is very reasonable, mature and not spoiled, but at fourteen my parents were not behind me reminding me to fill out application forms. I was jumping at and keeping up with any little opportunity that arose. Do your hard working 9th graders need you to tell them these classes are what you need to take, finish the applications if you want phone privileges, etc? I want her to be driven and seize these opportunities, but will that come later in time? Am I expecting too much for a child who unlike me is rather foreign to the realities of a third world country?

 

May my parenting and expectations be in tune with her realities and not mine. I want to guide her as much and as patiently as needed, and to know when to hold her and when to let her soar? Thoughts???

 

Many thanks, Rosa

 

Rosa, 

 

Here is my opinion: Stick with what works. :) You have a child who is enthusiastic about continuing something. I would do that. For one, she may not respond to online classes in the same way as live classes. Also, in the long run, IMO if she can possibly get a letter of recommendation from a live instructor that would be better than an online instructor. 

 

There have been conversations on hs2coll (a yahoo group, which if you don't belong to, you should join) about AP vs dual enrollment. I was surprised at how many people talked about the benefits of college classes over online AP--even people whose kids had ended up going to top colleges. Plus, you are talking about a university here, not even a community college, right? So, you don't even have the alleged community college stigma. 

 

She sounds like a great 14 yo. :) She is very young yet. You said she gets stressed somewhat easily, so I'd pay attention to that. I would respect her opinions on what she wants and doesn't want to do within reason. When homeschooling high school, you really need a teen to be on board as much as possible IMO. Her request for the Great Books class seems totally reasonable and it makes sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me to stop that or switch to something else when it's worked well so far. I would be careful with taking away things she enjoys and replacing them with something that might actually be less worthy in the end, especially, just because it has the AP label. And yes, I think adding in the Geography AP sounds like it would be too much for next year.