Has anyone dropped Barton?

[FairProspects]

I sort of cringe to even post this, but has anyone dropped Barton? If you did, why and what did you move to?

 

We originally started Barton at age 6 and ds at that point needed the pace because he was not able to blend which I assumed meant we needed to slow down the OG instruction. Meanwhile he has been progressing and was starting to feel irritated with the pace of Barton. After his eval and understanding his blending glitch, I've been teaching him differently the past week or so and he can READ. I mean, when I move to teaching him morphemically he is above grade level and skyrocketing. And now, I feel like Barton is holding him back. He definitely still needs OG instruction, but the pace of Barton is glacial compared to his level of reading.

 

I'm feeling like I should just move him to AAS (which I've already taught now levels 1-3) and continue the OG instruction with that since the pace would be better for him but part of me is nervous to move away from Barton since it is the "gold standard". Thoughts?

[SandyKC]

My thought is that you should pursue what you KNOW works for your child regardless of any gold standard or the popularity of the Barton program.  If he can move faster using a different program, then that could be of benefit in more ways than one.  Moving him to AAS is not a bad move at all since it is a comprehensive program too, and using the associated OG instruction may be sufficient for your DS.  You might find that using AAS and working through Megawords would be a good combination for him.

[Heathermomster]

Use what works.  You can always go back to Barton later if need be.  It's awesome that you have found something that helps your boy.

[OneStepAtATime]

Don't let yourself be a slave to the curriculum.  I agree with Sandy and Heathermomster, if you have found something that is working, don't feel bad about dropping Barton  Just do it.  You can always go back.  Barton can be VERY slow compared to many other programs since it breaks everything into really small components.  Sometimes kids need really detailed and really slow.  Sometimes they only need it for a bit, then they can move on to something else.  Sometimes it is just too detailed and slow to begin with.  Do what your gut is telling you, then reevaluate down the road.  

[OneStepAtATime]

What level are you in, by the way?  Just curious.  It says on your siggy that you are on Level 3.  Is that current?  Which lesson?  If you have mentioned this on another thread, I apologize for not remembering.

[nukeswife]

When my daughter finished vision therapy but was still struggling with ready (her testing all came back with no dyslexia or any LDs) Barton was a god send, but after doing levels 2 and 3, 4 started to feel like a slog.  Today i gave her the AAR 3 placement test and was amazed at how well she was reading.  She's started reading books like The Warriors: Into the Night all on her own. 

Barton was right for her at that stage, but at this point it's more of a hinderance to her, so we'll move on.  The best curriculum is the one that works at that point in time. 

[FairProspects]

We're in the middle of lesson 2 of Level 3, but it is way below his reading level. He intuited silent-e long vowel patterns (which took older ds months to get) and he has down all the long sounds of a, ai, ay, etc as far as reading goes. He is starting to read short chapter books and he is newly 7. He really isn't guessing and will stop and look at me for instruction when we hit a rule-breaker or a pattern he doesn't recognize. He has crazy high verbal reasoning and so is really cracking the code on his own despite being dyslexic. His spelling needs work, but I'm thinking of separating out spelling with AAS and working in a different direction for reading.

[OneStepAtATime]

Then it does sound like maybe he got what he needed from the other levels and is ready to move to another system.  If you do that, I hope you will post about how it is going along the way.  I would be curious to hear your take on AAS after Barton.

[OneStepAtATime]

A thought just struck me.  Can you issue the post test of Level 3 to see if there are any gaps you could shore up with specific targeted lessons in that level? That way you aren't slogging through stuff he doesn't need, but you haven't wasted your money on Level 3 and you should be able to address any gaps pretty quickly.

[Julie of KY]

There are lots of ways to teach reading. Just because your child is dyslexic doesn't mean you have to stick with Barton or anything else. Do what works. Your instincts will tell you if you've pushed your child too far and need to back up.

[FairProspects]

A thought just struck me.  Can you issue the post test of Level 3 to see if there are any gaps you could shore up with specific targeted lessons in that level? That way you aren't slogging through stuff he doesn't need, but you haven't wasted your money on Level 3 and you should be able to address any gaps pretty quickly.

 

This was a great thought. I forgot about the post test. I just gave him most of it and it looks like we just have a couple of blends to shore up in lessons 6 & 9. In true asynchronous 2E fashion, he can ace the material in lesson 11 and struggle with the material in lesson 9. At least it will help me pinpoint where to place him in AAS too.

[OneStepAtATime]

This was a great thought. I forgot about the post test. I just gave him most of it and it looks like we just have a couple of blends to shore up in lessons 6 & 9. In true asynchronous 2E fashion, he can ace the material in lesson 11 and struggle with the material in lesson 9. At least it will help me pinpoint where to place him in AAS too.

Great!  Hmmm. wonder if I should try this with DD for Level 4...no, probably not.  Her situation seems very different to me.  But I am tempted... :)

[PrincessAriel]

I will admit that I didn't get far with Barton. Even though I had heard Susan Barton speak, I was very enthusiastic about the program, and I  was on board with the OG methods, my dd hated it. I was falling asleep to the training DVDs, and we dropped it after the first level. She ended up really taking off with Funnix and ds ended up doing really well with AAS, which really clicked with me and my ds (tried Barton  briefly with ds).  I found it easy to move through the AAS  lessons and he retained it really well. I don't regret our decision at all.  I think whatever you use has to make sense to you and the child you are teaching. Neither child was a diagnosed dyslexic (with ds they told us they couldn't really decide due to IQ) but  both of them did have a lot of issues learning to read. 

Good luck!

[Lecka]

(Edited)

 

I dropped Barton. 

 

Not for the same reasons. 

I am someone who got a huge amount out of the DVDs for Level 1,  that is the level I own.  I never used it, I used the DVD method with other things.  I get so much out of seeing videos, it is better for me than reading a description. 

 

I used to refer all the time to the Barton scope and sequence. 

 

After my son was good with basic letter sounds, basic blending, and basic segmenting, I went to Abecedarian Level B.  It was a good fit for him.  Then I have been doing "recommended fluency practices" for about a year, not using a specific program.  And not timing him -- though I do things to encourage repeated reading, and he does a lot of reading things after I have read them. 

 

I do not care as much about spelling -- his spelling is coming along, he knows some patterns, but other patterns he doesn't know for spelling yet.  It is okay with me for now. 

 

My son is in 3rd grade, he has just started reading Goosebumps on his own.  He just finished his first one, it took him a week.  We have to tell him "go read" but he is able to do it independently, no problem.  This is his first chapter book on his own, he had been doing either "right by me, page on page off" or else reading comic books or young story books on his own.  He has been reading Harry Potter at school, but he is willing to push himself for that.  He wants to read it because other kids are reading it.  Still -- great for his self-esteem.  He is able to read the non-fiction leveled readers that come home with him on his own -- earlier in the year I was still helping him manage it. 

 

I really like Barton, but have not used it.  But seeing the DVDs I did and information from the website have been extremely helpful. 

 

I am going to do, either Abecedarian Level C or a vocabulary program or a roots/affixes program, this summer.  I am not sure yet.  I am looking at buying about 5 things and then may mix them up.  Last year I thought I might go back to Barton for splitting multisyllable words, but he is doing great with 2-syllable words now, and he gets the easier 3-syllable words with no problem.  There are harder 3-syllable words that he needs some instruction on. 

 

Anyway -- with reading about reading acquisition, I am pretty happy to try to look for where he is and try to find the best thing for him where he is.  I look at the Barton website, the readingrockets.org website, and two books by Wiley Blevins about phonics.  Also, I look at the "what your child needs in this grade" things, that are various places.  My son is in public school ----- which does nothing for teaching him to decode, but I think his teacher this year has really helped him with fluency.  I think he has benefited from his reading instruction -- it is just not enough for him. 

 

But anyway -- I have been on the eclectic side or the "try different things" side, and I am very pleased with where my son is.  His WCPM is 111 words per minute -- according to school.  That is really good I think -- it is about 15 words above the 50th percentile.  That is something I look at. 

 

But I hear him read enough, and know what I have covered with him.... I know where he is at.  I see scopes and sequences and reading acquisition stuff ---- I know he has more to cover, that he will probably need taught to him explicitly, but I am pleased with where he is. 

 

I definitely think (or thought) that if he was ever seeming to be stuck or falling behind, then I would go back to Barton.  I would write Susan Barton and request post-tests, and go to whatever level he needed to be in.  But ---- now that he is at a good 3rd grade level, I do not think of it as much.  Though I still think -- if he doesn't make progress, I will go back to Barton!  It just seems less likely now, that that might happen.  I really like to know that it is available. 

 

Edit:  besides the Barton scope and sequence, I also look a lot at two books by Wiley Blevins about phonics.  I also look at readingrockets.org.  I also look at those lists of "reading skills your child needs at this or that age."  I am tracking it, I am keeping up with it. 

 

There is a difference between Barton and Reading Reflex/Abecedarian in the order of some things.  Barton seems to teach syllable division before all the phongrams.  Abecedarian goes through phonograms for almost all one-syllable words before getting into syllable division.  Not like it is only Abecedarian -- but I thought it was a good option for a child needing a lot of instruction.  It is not like "well let's drown you and do no review b/c you will pick things up from one example and learn 6 things at the same time" like, um, some other reading program. 

 

With  my son at his age and in public school -- doing the one-syllable words first, followed the school schedule more.  That is a difference ----- I did choose to follow the school schedule, and I also thought he would have an easier time to do it that way.  I thought it would help him confidence more.  I think for other kids -- reading two-syllable words might be really good for their confidence, and that might be easier.  That is just what I thought, but mainly it was wanting to stay in sync with school if I could.  I really just wanted for him to be caught up in school and out of the pull-out reading group. 

 

Edit again:  the Wiley Blevins book about phonics, I own the one for intermediate learners.  It has got a lot of ideas I use.  It is set up like -- you notice a problem, and then go to that section, and it gives some information for how to present it and some games to play with it.  So I use that a fair amount.  It has got a lot of good information on 2-syllable word patterns that I have used a lot.  I have not used the 3-syllable word stuff so much -- I think I need something more formal, not just showing him things from the book as I see them come up, or deciding "we will go over this for a while" as I see it come up.  But that kind of thing has worked for the gap between Abecedarian Level B and where he is now.

 

And also -- I do like the Abecedarian model, where it teaches just decoding, and then kids read to improve.  It is based on taking time between Level B and Level C to do fluency using general fluency stuff.  That has been fine with me.  My son would not have been able to go from Level B to Level C.  So ----- it is not really moving kids along, I don't think.  That is fine with me, but I think it would be a big drawback ----- and I think Barton does move kids along, I think it is set up that way.  Abecedarian is set up to go slower in a way. 

 

But for general school -- 3rd grade can be about building fluency, if that is where kids are.  It doesn't have to be about going to the next level in decoding.  Or -- that is what I go by.  I think for kids ready to move on -- moving on is the thing to do.  For my son not really ready to move on -- I don't feel like I need to push him since he is at a fine place. 

[merry gardens]

I dropped it for a time, only to pick it up again. I haven't done it with the same intensity ever since my ds had VT. (Let's blame Oh E for my not having finished Bartons yet! ;) Just kidding.  VT seems to have helped his reading endurance, but it didn't resolve his dyslexia--and even his COVD said he needs an O-G program more than VT. ) 

 

We are finally on Barton Level 8 (Advanced Vowel Teams).  For language arts this fall, we tried religious material rather than any special ed. materials, but they didn't go too well.  I've thought about other O-G programs or AAS, but with as far as we've come there is likely to be something missed (because they don't all go in the same order.)  We use Winston Grammar now instead of just Barton for grammar.  I am fully committed to finishing all the way through all ten levels of Barton, but some days (weeks...months...) it doesn't show. 

 

So yes, I have dropped it, but not intentionally.  And one day, we will finish it, (if only so I can stop beating myself up and blaming myself and my teaching methods for my ds' dyslexia!!!)

[Lecka]

Don't beat yourself up!  Level 8 is awesome!!!!!!  You have done so much for him, he would not be better off any other way!

 

Incidentally -- I peeked at the scope and sequence.  My son did several of those vowel teams in Abecedarian Level B, still in one-syllable words.  That is something where -- I truly don't think he needed to have those come late.  I think he was fine to do those earlier, while he was still in one-syllable words, no need for syllable division. 

 

But I think the Barton order has a lot going for it -- especially for an older child who is not going to want to read 2nd-grade level stuff for a long time.  Then the syllable division coming sooner I think is very desirable. 

 

I am not critical, I just went with a different order. 

 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I dropped it for a time, only to pick it up again. I haven't done it with the same intensity ever since my ds had VT. (Let's blame Oh E for my not having finished Bartons yet! ;) Just kidding.  VT seems to have helped his reading endurance, but it didn't resolve his dyslexia--and even his COVD said he needs an O-G program more than VT. ) 

 

We are finally on Barton Level 8 (Advanced Vowel Teams).  For language arts this fall, we tried religious material rather than any special ed. materials, but they didn't go too well.  I've thought about other O-G programs or AAS, but with as far as we've come there is likely to be something missed (because they don't all go in the same order.)  We use Winston Grammar now instead of just Barton for grammar.  I am fully committed to finishing all the way through all ten levels of Barton, but some days (weeks...months...) it doesn't show. 

 

So yes, I have dropped it, but not intentionally.  And one day, we will finish it, (if only so I can stop beating myself up and blaming myself and my teaching methods for my ds' dyslexia!!!)

Seriously, Level 8 is NOT something to beat yourself up about.  Goodness, I wish we were at Level 8.  I know you say you are committed to finishing.  As long as you have made it that far, I have heard that Level 9 and 10 are excellent for prep for high school level work so if you make it all the way through then WOW.  But if you never get any further, hey you did GREAT!  And maybe switching to something else to see if it would work better could really be a great game changer, especially if you are both somewhat burned out.  You can always switch back.

 

Honestly, DD and I are having a hard time with Level 4.  We are committed to making it, but all the people that warned me about Level 4 were spot on.  We have had to slow down and I can't seem to get a good rhythm like we had with Level 3.  Not sure why.

 

Did you ever do IEW like Susan Barton recommends?  Or did you do something else for writing?

[Quiver0f10]

We are just about finished level 7 with my 14 year old and I am thinking of getting through level 8 and dropping Barton's. Maybe even for jus a break...I am in level 3 with my 9 year old and have considered switching to LOE. I love Barton's but I am burnt out.

[Pen]

I sort of cringe to even post this, but has anyone dropped Barton? If you did, why and what did you move to?

 

We originally started Barton at age 6 and ds at that point needed the pace because he was not able to blend which I assumed meant we needed to slow down the OG instruction. Meanwhile he has been progressing and was starting to feel irritated with the pace of Barton. After his eval and understanding his blending glitch, I've been teaching him differently the past week or so and he can READ. I mean, when I move to teaching him morphemically he is above grade level and skyrocketing. And now, I feel like Barton is holding him back. He definitely still needs OG instruction, but the pace of Barton is glacial compared to his level of reading.

 

I'm feeling like I should just move him to AAS (which I've already taught now levels 1-3) and continue the OG instruction with that since the pace would be better for him but part of me is nervous to move away from Barton since it is the "gold standard". Thoughts?

 

 

Were you who had an evaluation with the Eides? If so, did they tell you to use Barton with him and call it the "gold standard"?

 

For my son, older at starting time, and not having had an evaluation with the Eides, and not having been on this forum at the time, to hear the pro-Barton bias here, High Noon was presented to me as the best program (or perhaps "gold standard" though the term was certainly not used) for a 2e child at ds's age and level.

[OneStepAtATime]

Were you who had an evaluation with the Eides? If so, did they tell you to use Barton with him and call it the "gold standard"?

 

For my son, older at starting time, and not having had an evaluation with the Eides, and not having been on this forum at the time, to hear the Barton bias here, High Noon was presented to me as the best program (or perhaps "gold standard" though the term was certainly not used) for a 2e child at ds's age and level.

Chuckle... yeah, I love that "gold standard" statement for all the options out there.  I think, in the past 2 years, I have heard about more than a dozen "gold standard" programs, each one sounding like the holy grail of reading and each one promising miracles.  It makes your head spin.  

 

Back in the real world, every child is different, every situation is different and some programs will work great with some kids, some will work o.k. and some won't work well at all.  And we, as parents, just have to do the best we can to find what fits.  Not an easy path because there really isn't a perfect one-size-fits all program.  Thankfully, with this board and other sources, we parents in the trenches who are actually USING these programs can exchange information and personal experiences to try and make more informed decisions.  

 

I love the support on this board and the exchange of ideas here.  I have learned so much more than I had in years and years of asking questions locally.  And I have been able to pass on that knowledge to others.  In fact, Pen, there is a woman here locally that has started using High Noon with her two teenagers and so far they are very happy.  If I hadn't "met" you on this board, I would not have known anything about High Noon and could not have passed on that information to her (she had looked at Barton and a couple of other things and had not felt they were right for her kids).

 

FairProspects since you have issued the post test for Level 3, and he could pass most of it, then I think your instincts were correct.  He probably really doesn't need to go through all of Level 3, like you were suspecting.  Going over the stuff he struggled with, then trying something else sounds like a really good plan.  You seem to have found a system that works better for your child, and I applaud you for your willingness to explore other options.  (I wish I had asked a LOT more questions and actively sought a LOT more options when the kids were little.)  If it isn't working, at least you know how Barton works and can reassess from a position of experience and knowledge.

 

Big hugs and best wishes.

[Pen]

Chuckle... yeah, I love that "gold standard" statement for all the options out there.  I think, in the past 2 years, I have heard about more than a dozen "gold standard" programs, each one sounding like the holy grail of reading and each one promising miracles.  It makes your head spin.  

 

Back in the real world, every child is different, every situation is different and some programs will work great with some kids, some will work o.k. and some won't work well at all.  And we, as parents, just have to do the best we can to find what fits.  Not an easy path because there really isn't a perfect one-size-fits all program.  Thankfully, with this board and other sources, we parents in the trenches who are actually USING these programs can exchange information and personal experiences to try and make more informed decisions.  

 

I love the support on this board and the exchange of ideas here.  I have learned so much more than I had in years and years of asking questions locally.  And I have been able to pass on that knowledge to others.  In fact, Pen, there is a woman here locally that has started using High Noon with her two teenagers and so far they are very happy.  If I hadn't "met" you on this board, I would not have known anything about High Noon and could not have passed on that information to her (she had looked at Barton and a couple of other things and had not felt they were right for her kids).

 

FairProspects since you have issued the post test for Level 3, and he could pass most of it, then I think your instincts were correct.  He probably really doesn't need to go through all of Level 3, like you were suspecting.  Going over the stuff he struggled with, then trying something else sounds like a really good plan.  You seem to have found a system that works better for your child, and I applaud you for your willingness to explore other options.  (I wish I had asked a LOT more questions and actively sought a LOT more options when the kids were little.)  If it isn't working, at least you know how Barton works and can reassess from a position of experience and knowledge.

 

Big hugs and best wishes.

 

 

If there was an in-person evaluation with respected people in this field like the Eides, and they specifically said that Barton would be the best program for this particular child, I would be hesitant to drop it. Though what was true at age 6 may have changed even if he were to be reevaluated now.  And there may be fewer programs suitable to a 6 year old, than for older since many people do not start onto the dyslexia remediation path till their children are older.

 

 I'm also (assuming I remember right that it was FairProspects who had the Eides as evaluators) personally interested in knowing if they are calling Barton the gold standard.  It is not in their resources section for dyslexia in The Mislabeled Child. 

 

ETA: Nor does Barton seem to be listed in the index to Sally Shaywitz's Overcoming Dyslexia. nor in my Everything ... Guide to Dyslexia by Marshall.  ETA: however I just found it in a list of O-G based programs in  The Dyslexia Checklist by Rief and Stern, 

 

I know that it has worked extremely well for some children, such as, I believe yours OneStepAtaTime. And that is wonderful! And of course, we all tend to like to suggest what worked for our children to turn them into readers when others ask.  (Although I also think one has to be careful about when people post about how wonderful a program is when their children have not actually attained becoming readers yet.)

 

But absent this particular child's in person excellent evaluator having said to use it for this particular child, which would certainly give me pause about dropping it, if it does not seem to be a program that fits him, IMO, by all means switch to something else. Look for what will work well for him. Other than Barton's own self promotion materials, and this website, I've not run into any references to it as a gold standard in the reading and learning I did about dyslexia. This does not mean they are not out there, but I haven't happened across them. I think it a sad state of affairs that OP cringes even to consider posting about dropping it.

[OneStepAtATime]

If there was an in-person evaluation with respected people in this field like the Eides, and they specifically said that Barton would be the best program for this particular child, I would be hesitant to drop it. Though what was true at age 6 may have changed even if he were to be reevaluated now.  

 

 I'm also (assuming I remember right that it was FairProspects who had the Eides as evaluators) personally interested in knowing if they are calling Barton the gold standard.  It is not in their resources section for dyslexia in The Mislabeled Child. 

Hmmm, good point.

 

And if it WAS the Eides that told FairProspects (or anyone else) that Barton is the gold standard why wouldn't they list it?  Perhaps at the time that book was published, Barton was not as well known or as popular?  The copyright looks like 2006 so they were probably writing and compiling prior to 2006 and I think Barton came out about 2000.  Maybe it took time to get the word out for it to be noticed by the Eides?  

 

Although I am skimming through The Dyslexic Advantage and I don't see Barton mentioned in the index.  In fact, I don't see ANY of the normal language arts programs for dyslexics mentioned in the index.  They do mention Slingerland, Wilson, Lindamood Bell, etc. in a foot note type of thing and the pros and cons of those programs, but I do not see Barton there, either.  Of course it is a big book and if they didn't reference ANY program in the index, it would be difficult to find a reference in the body of the book without rereading the book...I honestly can't remember if they ever referred to Barton specifically or not.

 

I do know that if you get on the Eides' website Susan Barton has a power point presentation on there introduced by Fernette Eide discussing dyslexia.  Susan just mentions that her program is one of 10 that are very popular and well known programs for dyslexic students and the rest is apparently just discussing dyslexia itself.  

 

Maybe the Eides are trying to stay neutral and not endorse one particular program?

[OneStepAtATime]

I know that it has worked extremely well for some children, such as, I believe yours OneStepAtaTime. And that is wonderful! And of course, we all tend to like to suggest what worked for our children to turn them into readers when others ask.  (Although I also think one has to be careful about when people post about how wonderful a program is when their children have not actually attained becoming readers yet.)

 

But absent this particular child's in person excellent evaluator having said to use it for this particular child, which would certainly give me pause about dropping it, if it does not seem to be a program that fits him, IMO, by all means switch to something else. Look for what will work well for him. Other than Barton's own self promotion materials, and this website, I've not run into any references to it as a gold standard in the reading and learning I did about dyslexia. This does not mean they are not out there, but I haven't happened across them. I think it a sad state of affairs that OP cringes even to consider posting about dropping it.

Actually, I chose Barton because we had tried a lot of things, including private tutoring with a dyslexia specialist and nothing had helped.  There was no center for dyslexia in our area so I had to find something I could implement without training.  I did months of research, looking at all the different programs. I found a LOT of great, independent reviews of Barton and was in contact with two different tutors in other states that were trained in several programs, including Barton.  They both said that for trying to implement as a parent at home, Barton would probably be the best one.  Is it the best for everyone?  No.  Is there a program that might work better if we could go to a tutor that actually knew what they were doing?  Probably.  But Barton fit with our situation and I had read a lot of great reviews that were NOT on the Barton site.

 

So we tried it.  And while there were some difficulties with DD at the beginning, I think that would have happened with any program. She already felt like a failure so her attitude was terrible.  Once she got on board, things went great and she has learned more in 8 months with Barton than 7 years in a brick and mortar and with private tutoring.  She went from barely decoding 2nd grade level readers, with slowness and no fluency, and an absolute hatred of reading and no desire whatsoever to continue school past what was legally required to reading Divergent over a 5 day period and loving reading and now talking about college.  All because of Barton.  And she frequently asks to do Barton and will voluntarily pull out the practice games.  Her enthusiasm is half the battle.  

 

We are having a bit of difficulty with Level 4, and it is a really intense level  It is kind of exhausting to prep and tutor.  But I will be honest, I think it is more me than her or the program that is slowing us down.  Trying to help DS with all of his issues, and run a business, and deal with my vision issues, and act essentially like a single parent most of the time, I find myself really tired.  Barton takes a lot of mental energy and since Christmas I have had a harder time dredging up that mental energy.  I have faith I will get my stride back, though.  I always do.  DD wants to continue the program.  If it weren't helping, I wouldn't.  But it really is helping.  A LOT.  

 

Would another program help just as much, if not better?  No idea.  Maybe.  In fact, there might be several that would work that I could implement myself, now that I have a better idea of what to do.  No way to know without switching and having hopped 40 million curriculum choices for other subjects over the past two years, and having spent over a year struggling to find ANYTHING that would help poor DD function in math, I really don't want to hop around on any math or language arts stuff right now.  Barton is working.  We will stick with it for now.

 

DS is different.  He does great with the stuff that should be hard (internalizing the rules) but he has other external forces causing difficulty when trying to apply the rules verbally and when reading paragraphs (written is fine).  After VT and more LiPS we will go back to Barton at least through Level 4 and see how he does.  I don't know that Barton is the best choice for him long-term, but I see no point in really speculating right now.  We have time.

 

I agree, though, that this program isn't for everyone.   There are a LOT of options.   I still love it, especially for tutoring a dyslexic with no other issues that needs to be tutored by a parent, but like with everything else, it isn't perfect.  If I could guarantee success with something less teacher intense that moved at a faster pace I would do it.  But we did try many other things and NOTHING worked as well for us.  So I may not have much energy for Barton right now, but I certainly don't have the energy to try something else at the moment, especially since the one we have has been so helpful.

 

But I too feel sadness that anyone would have trepidation about posting a desire to switch programs.  Everyone of us is trying to find the right path for our kids and all our kids are different and unique.  No two paths will be exactly alike and I support different choices for different situations wholeheartedly.  If I ever made anyone feel like I was judging them negatively for making a different choice than me, I apologize.  That was never, ever my intent.  I swear it.  I have enthusiasm for this program because it gave my daughter a chance to read, really read, for the first time in her life.  But I know there are plenty of paths to success.  We just chose this one.

 

And I agree that FairProspects may have found a much better way to handle tutoring her own child...

 

Best wishes.

[FairProspects]

The "gold standard" comments were just my thoughts from what I have read here and elsewhere, no one else's. :)

 

And a big part of the reason I cringe to think about dropping it is just the cost invested already because it is so expensive. That and the fact that up until this point it has been working fairly well when nothing else has. Now that I understand ds's blending glitch and that blends may indeed be the hardest part of decoding for him, along with the fact they happen to occur fairly early on in most phonics programs, well, I'm just not sure Barton is as necessary now that I have more info.

 

It was recommended to continue using Barton, but only because we were seeing progress with it and it certainly wasn't the exclusive recommendation, but rather one of a series of OG options and the one we had already purchased. There was nothing to suggest we shouldn't move in another OG direction if a different program was a better fit, but an OG style was recommended.

[Quiver0f10]

Hmmm, good point.

 

And if it WAS the Eides that told FairProspects (or anyone else) that Barton is the gold standard why wouldn't they list it?  Perhaps at the time that book was published, Barton was not as well known or as popular?  The copyright looks like 2006 so they were probably writing and compiling prior to 2006 and I think Barton came out about 2000.  Maybe it took time to get the word out for it to be noticed by the Eides?  

 

Although I am skimming through The Dyslexic Advantage and I don't see Barton mentioned in the index.  In fact, I don't see ANY of the normal language arts programs for dyslexics mentioned in the index.  They do mention Slingerland, Wilson, Lindamood Bell, etc. in a foot note type of thing and the pros and cons of those programs, but I do not see Barton there, either.  Of course it is a big book and if they didn't reference ANY program in the index, it would be difficult to find a reference in the body of the book without rereading the book...I honestly can't remember if they ever referred to Barton specifically or not.

 

I do know that if you get on the Eides' website Susan Barton has a power point presentation on there introduced by Fernette Eide discussing dyslexia.  Susan just mentions that her program is one of 10 that are very popular and well known programs for dyslexic students and the rest is apparently just discussing dyslexia itself.  

 

Maybe the Eides are trying to stay neutral and not endorse one particular program?

 

Any idea what the other 9 programs would be?

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Any idea what the other 9 programs would be?

 

 

Well, they weren't listed specifically but I can certainly guess at a few (in no particular order):

1. Lindamood Bell

2. Slingerland

3. Wilson

4. Davis

5. High Noon

6. The Family Fun With Fluency Kit (Neuhaus Education Center)

7. Orton-Gillingham (while many say they are based on OG, there are some that list this as a separate system, all to itself)

8. Barton

9. All About Reading/All About Spelling (edited to add this one)

 

I am sure there are others that would appear on a list of the top 10.  These are just some that came to mind.  No idea how many of these she actually was referring to...hope that helps.

 

If anyone else has suggestions on what else might be considered one of the top 10, feel free....I know there are others but I am drawing a blank...

[Lecka]

As far as Sally Shaywitz and Overcoming Dyslexia not mentioning Barton ---- she has a Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity website ---- and there is a glowing testimonial of a woman who homeschooled her son with Barton.  So I take that as some degree of imprimatur.  I don't think it is a good book for recommending reading programs to a homeschooling/afterschooling parent, though.  

 

I do not have a training option open to me locally, there is no one I can observe or watch a few sessions with.  

 

I don't want to do a 40-hour internet training about the OG method and multisensory instruction.  

 

That is not my scope.  

 

A lot, lot, lot of programs are made for someone to use, who has got training in the system, who is not going to have every single thing spelled out.

 

But as there are not tutors here -- they are really not options to me.  If I was evaluating a possible tutor ---- it would be very useful to me to see if he/she was using a recommended program.  But to choose something to use myself -- I have to be bound by my limitations.  I need something that is made to be used by a para or a parent, not someone who is going through training and mentoring with another reading tutor, who is going to conferences, who is going to training sessions, etc.  

 

For someone interested in Wilson ---- I used to be a member of The Heart of Reading yahoo group, and there was a lot of information about using Wilson there.  They had comparisons of Wilson and Barton.  They were saying -- it was possible for a parent to use, but just to use the program, it seemed like there was a need for parents to search for information from other parents to find out just how to implement the program.  It did not have a "how-to for homeschooling parents, open and go" vibe, from my impression.

 

I think a lot of programs are going to be good and recommended.  But to look out of those, which ones could *I* successfully implement?  That is a very, very, very different list.  

 

I also think, that some programs do not get the "name recognition" for two reasons.  One, they are not participating in research studies.  Two, they are not being used in schools -- they are not being published by a textbook company trying to get them used in schools -- they are independent, or they are designed more for tutors or parents, or that is just not their goal.  

 

So -- I am satisfied to consider programs that a) meet my conditions and b) look appropriate from samples and c) do get good reviews.  I usually try to have a goal that I am trying to reach and try to fit my criteria and advance my goal.  It is very specific and individual though -- I am not trying to find an overall best program to use in general or to choose to use with all children I might happen to tutor or work with in a school setting.  That is not my scope.  So I don't actually need an "overall best" program.  

 

So overall -- sure there are programs besides Barton.  Sure there are programs that will fit into whatever you find is what seems crucial in helping your child to understand (I have found some things by trial and error!).  

 

I think Barton is a gold standard (or even the gold standard) for a parent ---- b/c of the DVDs!  B/c of the scripts!  But I don't think that means that everyone does need to have the DVDs and scripts and adhere to them strictly.  To me -- what matters is that it is available, it is there.  Without Barton -- I don't think there is another complete program, comprehensive, in order, that goes from pre-school to high school....... How many programs get to a level of 2nd grade decoding, and stop there?  Leaving people to go to Rewards?  How many programs include decoding and nothing for fluency, leaving people to wonder why their kids are not developing fluency with the use of the program?  A lot, I think.  

 

But I don't take that to mean that anyone "has" to use it, that anyone is taking a risk to not use it, that anyone has to think "he would be reading better right at this second if I had done Barton."

 

I think things like "he would be reading better right at this second if I had used Barton."  But a) no program is going to make my son not have some signs of dyslexia.  It is just not going to happen.  B) I think if I am making good choices, that needs to be good enough.  If I am making a reasonable choice, that seems best for my son, and if I am willing to change if it seems not to be working anymore, then I think that is as good as anyone can do.  

[Pen]

 

 

And a big part of the reason I cringe to think about dropping it is just the cost invested already because it is so expensive. That and the fact that up until this point it has been working fairly well when nothing else has. Now that I understand ds's blending glitch and that blends may indeed be the hardest part of decoding for him, along with the fact they happen to occur fairly early on in most phonics programs, well, I'm just not sure Barton is as necessary now that I have more info.

 

It was recommended to continue using Barton, but only because we were seeing progress with it ...

 

Maybe Barton has already been successful for him, but now he is ready to move on to something he can make faster progress with. You can hold on to what you have of Barton and go back to it if you decide it was better after all and his progress stalls out on the new program.

[Lecka]

I agree.