HRAAB Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Showing my ignorance here: Is creationism unique to Christianity? Is it a belief shared by the other Abrahamic religions? If so, is it a teaching (doctrine) of Judaism or Islam? Or is it all over the board as in Christianity. And... is there any creationist (speaker, writer, proponent) that is not a Christian? Has any known evolutionist ever accepted creationism without converting to a Christian/other Abrahamic religion? I'm googling it but am particularly interested in how Judaism and Islam view creation. eta: specifically young earth creationism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think the wiki article on the topic actually answers a lot of your questions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Creationism is not unique to Christianity. You will find religions that believe in a higher power often have a Creation story, from Christianity to Native Americans, all throughout history. As far as speakers, I assume you are talking about proponents trying to prove science supports creation? IMO Christians would definitely be the most vocal in that regard. Ben Stein is Jewish and did a video regarding the topic too. I'm sure there are other non-Christians, but I really don't follow that. Maybe look under intelligent design proponents or something?? I really don't know. For me, it's all irrelevant. As for someone believing in creation and not converting to anything, well... I'm sure someone somewhere out there can claim such beliefs. Never say never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 And... is there any creationist (speaker, writer, proponent) that is not a Christian? David Berlinksi comes to mind, although he's a critic of evolution rather than a creationist. He's a secular Jew and agnostic. He wrote The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions and numerous essays on evolution. From Wikipedia: A critic of evolution, Berlinski is a Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, a Seattle-based think tank that is a hub of the intelligent design movement. Berlinski shares the movement's disbelief in the evidence for evolution, but does not openly avow intelligent design and describes his relationship with the idea as "warm but distant. It's the same attitude that I display in public toward my ex-wives." Berlinski is a scathing critic of evolution, yet, "Unlike his colleagues at the Discovery Institute,...[he] refuses to theorize about the origin of life." Honestly, I don't know that much about him, and I haven't read his book. I just really like his son Mischa's first novel, Fieldwork. It's brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 David Berlinksi comes to mind, although he's a critic of evolution rather than a creationist. He's a secular Jew and agnostic. He wrote The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions and numerous essays on evolution. From Wikipedia: A critic of evolution, Berlinski is a Senior Fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, a Seattle-based think tank that is a hub of the intelligent design movement. Berlinski shares the movement's disbelief in the evidence for evolution, but does not openly avow intelligent design and describes his relationship with the idea as "warm but distant. It's the same attitude that I display in public toward my ex-wives." Berlinski is a scathing critic of evolution, yet, "Unlike his colleagues at the Discovery Institute,...[he] refuses to theorize about the origin of life." Honestly, I don't know that much about him, and I haven't read his book. I just really like his son Mischa's first novel, Fieldwork. It's brilliant. Yes, I have heard of him, but like you said, although he's very critical of evolution is he is not a creationist. I thought he was slightly more favorable towards ID? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Now THIS is an interesting thread... :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Creationism is not unique to Christianity. You will find religions that believe in a higher power often have a Creation story, from Christianity to Native Americans, all throughout history. As far as speakers, I assume you are talking about proponents trying to prove science supports creation? IMO Christians would definitely be the most vocal in that regard. Ben Stein is Jewish and did a video regarding the topic too. I'm sure there are other non-Christians, but I really don't follow that. Maybe look under intelligent design proponents or something?? I really don't know. For me, it's all irrelevant. As for someone believing in creation and not converting to anything, well... I'm sure someone somewhere out there can claim such beliefs. Never say never. I was particular interested in young earth creationism. I thought Ben Stein was in the ID camp. Honestly, what I was wanting to find was an evolutionist who became convinced of a young earth based on scientific evidence, not due to a religious conversion. I would be very interested in such a story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I googled "evolutionist turned creationist" and quite a bit came up. I hesitate to share specific links, as I didn't read through but one website. I'm not sure what credentials you are looking for - but the one website I glanced at mentioned people that were educated and in the field of science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Each one that I looked at first had a religious conversion followed by an acceptance of creationism. I was hoping to find a non-religious scientist who accepted a young earth based solely on scientific evidence without religious conversion entering into it. Thanks for your help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I agree that would be very interesting...but I don't think you will find a person who believes in YEC based only on scientific evidence with absolutely no religious basis for the belief. As Hamm pointed out over, and over, and over, he believes what he believes because he is a Christian. He will not change his mind no matter what...because he is a Christian. It is the religious beliefs of YEC that forms the beliefs and I don't think you can find any YEC who discounts the scientific evidence of an ancient world unless they have a REASON to do so. The reason is usually a religious belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I was hoping to find a non-religious scientist who accepted a young earth based solely on scientific evidence without religious conversion entering into it. I don't think you're likely to find that, but I assume that's your point. Just be careful not to equate creationism with a belief in a young earth. There are many old-earth creationists: oldearth.org There are also atheists and agnostics who criticize Darwinian evolution and defend the theory of intelligent design, without the influence of conversion: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/are-these-atheists-and-agnostics-really-covert-creationists/ Other non-Christian proponents of intelligent design include Muzaffar Iqbal, a Muslim, and David Klinghoffer, an Orthodox Jew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 While I'm sure there may be some YEC among Muslims, it's far more common for Muslims to show how the Qur'an and science do not negate each other. (Personally, it doesn't affect my faith either way.) Honestly, it's not something I've heard anybody debate or question. I'm sure with the more fundamentalist groups arising, there are probably some YECs, but they would be the minority. Science as a career is just too important to Muslim parents. :p In Islam, the creation story uses a term "youm" which can mean days or ages (used to mean both in different parts of the Qur'an), so it's never been a point of much discussion in Islamic circles as far as I know. The flood is also not viewed as a world wide flood. There are even Muslims who say that the Big Bang is in the Qur'an. There are those who say that the Qur'an even described the elliptical orbits of the planets back in the 7th century, or how fertilization of an egg happens, etc. This article is similar to other stuff I've read on the subject: http://islam.about.com/od/creation/a/creation.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Creationism is not unique to Christianity. You will find religions that believe in a higher power often have a Creation story, from Christianity to Native Americans, all throughout history. As far as speakers, I assume you are talking about proponents trying to prove science supports creation? IMO Christians would definitely be the most vocal in that regard. Ben Stein is Jewish and did a video regarding the topic too. I'm sure there are other non-Christians, but I really don't follow that. Maybe look under intelligent design proponents or something?? I really don't know. For me, it's all irrelevant. As for someone believing in creation and not converting to anything, well... I'm sure someone somewhere out there can claim such beliefs. Never say never. I think she means Creationism viewed as science rather than a religious belief. If she isn't interested in that distinction, I am. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBugs Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Harun Yahya is a controversial Turkish, "Islamic Creationist". He certainly doesn't speak for all Muslims and he also peddles in conspiracy theories. Anyway, he sent his book Atlas of Creation to members of congress in the USA, as well as scientists. Here is an article about him: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/how_they_do_it/2009/10/meet_harun_yahya.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't think you're likely to find that, but I assume that's your point. Just be careful not to equate creationism with a belief in a young earth. There are many old-earth creationists: oldearth.org There are also atheists and agnostics who criticize Darwinian evolution and defend the theory of intelligent design, without the influence of conversion: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/are-these-atheists-and-agnostics-really-covert-creationists/ Other non-Christian proponents of intelligent design include Muzaffar Iqbal, a Muslim, and David Klinghoffer, an Orthodox Jew. It's dangerous to assume another's point. I honestly would like to find a non-religious scientist that was convinced of a young earth based on scientific evidence. It would make me take notice. I'm very well aware that creationism does not equal a belief in a young earth. I used to be an old earth creationist myself although I could never convince myself into accepting a young earth. I'm aware of David Berlinski and David Klinghoffer; I haven't heard of Muzaffer Iqbal, though. My question was in earnest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It's dangerous to assume another's point. I apologize if I misread your intention. Sometimes people do ask rather disingenuous questions in an attempt to correct those with whom they disagree. I'm glad to learn that's not the case here, and I'm sorry I offended you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Each one that I looked at first had a religious conversion followed by an acceptance of creationism. I was hoping to find a non-religious scientist who accepted a young earth based solely on scientific evidence without religious conversion entering into it. You ain't gonna find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 While I'm sure there may be some YEC among Muslims, it's far more common for Muslims to show how the Qur'an and science do not negate each other. (Personally, it doesn't affect my faith either way.) Honestly, it's not something I've heard anybody debate or question. I'm sure with the more fundamentalist groups arising, there are probably some YECs, but they would be the minority. Science as a career is just too important to Muslim parents. :p In Islam, the creation story uses a term "youm" which can mean days or ages (used to mean both in different parts of the Qur'an), so it's never been a point of much discussion in Islamic circles as far as I know. The flood is also not viewed as a world wide flood. There are even Muslims who say that the Big Bang is in the Qur'an. There are those who say that the Qur'an even described the elliptical orbits of the planets back in the 7th century, or how fertilization of an egg happens, etc. This article is similar to other stuff I've read on the subject: http://islam.about.com/od/creation/a/creation.htm Thank you. I was searching the internet and couldn't really find anything showing YEC as part of Islam. I'm reading the article you linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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