Presenting the financial situation - when cost does not have to be a determining factor

[Hoggirl]

Ds is graduating in May. He has applied to eleven colleges. Thus far, we only know about three - all Big State U's in the SEC with significant merit aid. Two of the three will likely cover full COA once all is said and done. Even if not, we are looking at an extremely low out-of-pocket cost for them. He has two colleges in the middle which are privates and *should* offer around $20,000 per year in merit bringing the cost down to around $35,000 to $40,000 per year. Of his remaining six schools, five are top twenty national universities and one is a top ten liberal arts college. While a couple of those remaining six schools technicaly offer some merit-based scholarships, I am assuming he would not receive any $ at any of those (they're hard enough just to get accepted into!). Thus, at any of these top schools we will be full-freight, a ballpark of around $57,000 - $63,000 per year (that would be full cost of attendance). We will hear about one of the middle schools on March 15th, and the remainder at the end of March/April 1. Thus, we do not know choices as of yet, but all this waiting, waiting, waiting is making me crazy so I have started thinking about how best to present the financial situation when the time comes.

 

We can afford to send ds to any of his schools with no debt. He is our only. We have sort of approached our situation by letting him know how much is in the college pile of money. If he is accepted and chooses one of the top schools, there will be nothing left in the pile for graduate school. He would be on his own to cover graduate school costs. His current perceived area of interest (International Relations) will likely require a graduate degree, although at some places he has some options for a double major as well. Choosing a top school will also mean fewer resources for travel abroad and even eating out as much! Any money left in the pile at the end of undergrad can be used for graduate school. Any money left in the pile after that will be his.

 

I do NOT want to feel like we are bribing ds to take a cheaper school so he can get a pile of money at the end of his educational journey, but this is what I feel like we are doing. It is, however, reality.

Additionally, I have a friend working in the area of interest, and he does believe branding of college truly matters. One of the SEC schools does offer a strong program in International Studies, but then there is the location issue.

 

So, my question is: How would you present the financial situation to ds? He is obviously somewhat aware of it, but I am not sure how clearly he sees the BIG picture. Should we show anticipated total outlay over four years instead of over one? Would you do a side-by-side comparison of all schools that he is eventually accepted to? How much would you anticipate costs to increase over the four years he is in school? If he picks a fancy undergrad, he will be on his own for graduate school - how do we make this seem "real" to him. And, how can the branding be factored into this?

 

I know this is long, and I feel like I have asked generally about this topic before. But we are getting closer to decision time, and I find myself vacillating between hoping he will get into and choose an expensive school and hoping he picks one with lots of merit $$$. I'm not sure if I am being driven by greed or pride or what!

[Gwen in VA]

This is a popular but controversial topic -- whether to go to a low-cost lower-ranked school or a more expensive but highly prestigious school There's no easy answer.

 

One thing to investigate is how much money is available to grad students in his area of interest. I know nothing about IR, but I know that in STEM fields basically all grad students are fully funded. Is IR like that? If so, the need for money for grad school disappears.

[creekland]

I would be spending my time investigating where grads of each school were hired or accepted into grad school to try to ascertain if there's a difference worth the cost.  I suspect there very well could be with that major, BUT I don't know as I've never looked into it.

 

Any schools looking good at that point would be on the table.  Then we'd factor in finances - pretty much just as you said.  Here's what School A will cost and what you'd have afterward, etc.  I'd couple that with more visits (if possible) and talking with professors/students and/or sitting in on classes.

 

Are there any people you could contact doing actual jobs he is interested in?  Can you run the schools by them?  You don't have to actually know the people IRL.  We've found many people have been extremely willing to offer their two cents worth (often WORTH much more) to prospective students.  E-mail is usually the best contact - at least at first - as it allows them time to process their thoughts before responding.

 

It is a major decision and most major decisions are worth putting time and effort into IMO.

[Pawz4me]

We're in the same situation.  Unfortunately, I don't have any good advice.

 

Thankfully DS's interest is economics/business, which I think gives him a little edge up on sorting out stuff like this than perhaps someone whose interests are in another area would have.  But we've we've been talking for over two years now about how to weigh the pros and cons of cost versus academic reputation versus what he feels will be the best fit for him in terms of livability, etc., and we're still wrestling mightily with it.  He's also keeping the idea of law school in the back of his mind, and he knows the cost of that is something he needs to consider.

[regentrude]

Very difficult to decide. One thing I would investigate is how much his choice of undergraduate school matters for his chance of being accepted to graduate school. This varies from field to field. Don't go so low with the undergrad that grad school becomes a moot point because graduates from that college won't get accepted.

Aside from finances, I would definitely factor the profile of where the college's graduates go for grad school into the decision.

If the outcomes are similar for different schools, then choosing the cheaper one would be a sensible option. If the outcomes, however, are vastly different, it may be worth paying the price now for the opportunity later.

 

 

[Gwen in VA]

Are any of the professors at any of the schools courting him? Do any profs think he's super-special?

 

After sending three kids off to college, I would say that having a kid be the apple of some professor's eye -- the one he thinks of for research opportunities, the one he wants to send to conferences, etc -- is worth MORE than a higher-ranked school.....

 

I know that it's unusual to have a prof focus on a pre-frosh, but it does happen. If it happens to your son, I would pursue that school very seriously. Having a prof who is willing to really mentor a young person, rather than just having a friendly prof who's a decent advisor and a caring teacher, is worth A LOT!

[8filltheheart]

Gwen, I am taking your last post and starting a new thread so that I don't hijack this thread.

[Hoggirl]

Thanks for all the insights.

 

I do have a friend who works in IR. Only partially. He is also an academician with a PhD. I have re-emailed him about getting graduate school funded. He had alluded to this possibility earlier. Apparently, sometimes employers will cover a graduate school cost, but I don't think this is "common" as it might be in STEM fields. This is one of the things I have re-asked about. If it is only a possibility for a top kid coming out of a top school, I am not sure that is a realistic assumption to make. Even if ds gets into a top school, I can't imagine he would be top of the top at one.

 

Ds is NOT being courted by a professor. We will find out Tuesday, however, if he is being courted by a *program* as we are awaiting a possible invitation for a program-specific scholarship offer. Hopeful! If he is invited to compete for that scholarship, he has an automatic acceptance into that program whether he actually receives the scholarship or not. We would go down for an interview weekend. This is at Ole Miss. I am very keen on the opportunities there, but my friend is not so optimistic. Location is, obviously, an issue. Another question I have asked him is whether or not attending a public university which is not highly ranked will preclude ds's admission into graduate programs. In my mind, if he went to undergrad for free, even if we had to PAY for graduate school, we would come out ahead financially. However, there would be NO guarantees ds could do well enough to get into a fancy grad school for IR!

 

In addition to my real-life friend, I have discovered two cyber-friends from CC who are offering insights on their various experiences with children in IR programs. If we are invited down to Ole Miss, I do plan to ask about where their graduates have gone either in employment or to graduate school.

 

I appreciate your insights, and I look forward to hearing more specifics from my friend. He, too, attended an SEC school for both his undergraduate and PhD programs (same school), but went to Tufts for his Masters. I think he feels as though his pedigree (or lack thereof) has shut doors for him. He was accepted into some tippy top PhD programs but chose to return to the SEC school because he married and wife wanted to be close to her family.

[Teachin'Mine]

Hoggirl, since you have time before you hear from the privates, maybe your son could arrange some weekend visits with the public universities.  If he spends a good amount of time at each, staying in the dorms, sitting in on some IR and other classes, and hopefully speaking with IR professors and the chair or dean, he'll get a good feel for whether he'd be happy there.  Then I'd wait to see what privates he gets into and can visit those as well.  He should then have more info on which to base his decision.   After a weekend at one of the universities, he may fall in love with it and not even care to see the ones which will cost more.  You never know. Personally, I would be absolutely honest about what is available to him and help him to see how he fares financially given the different options.  Then he'll decide knowing all the possible pros and cons of whichever he chooses. 

[Hoggirl]

Ds has visited all his schools except for two. One of those is an ultra-reach and the other was a last-minute one added on to have a second "match." I am not sure how feasible re-visits are going to be. Certainly not to multiple schools. With 5 AP exams to prepare for as well as April containing Easter and two weekends for State Quiz Bowl, there really is precious little time. The schools to which he applied are spread from coast to coast with some in the middle! We *might* be able to work in one visit, and I have told him to think about that. He has spent time on Ole Miss's campus. He did sit in on a class, talk to someone from the Honors College, visit with a program representative, etc. No time in the dorms, however, though we did see them. If he is invited for the scholarship interview, I will see if I can't work out some true student time for him.

[creekland]

I appreciate your insights, and I look forward to hearing more specifics from my friend. He, too, attended an SEC school for both his undergraduate and PhD programs (same school), but went to Tufts for his Masters. I think he feels as though his pedigree (or lack thereof) has shut doors for him.

 

Check this out as it would be worthy of consideration IF those doors are some your guy would like to go through.  If he'd rather not be that high, then it doesn't matter as long as he can reach the level he does want.

 

[Hoggirl]

Check this out as it would be worthy of consideration IF those doors are some your guy would like to go through. If he'd rather not be that high, then it doesn't matter as long as he can reach the level he does want.

 

This is true. I spoke with my friend. While he says it would be possible to accomplish what ds wants to by starting at a less prestigious school, he says it will be more difficult. My friend feels that he himself could not replicate today what he did 25 years ago because things are just so much more competitive.

 

He also said that it is not uncommon for employers to cover graduate school cost, BUT that graduates of elite undergraduate schools are best positioned to get this.

 

The issue is not yet ripe since we won't know any about any more acceptances for awhile. My friend does, however, think the program at one of the state schools is a great one and feels that is probably the best choice if none of the tippy tops come through. The pedigree/branding of those he feels like would absolutely be worth the price tag.

 

More waiting, more chocolate (and wine!) ;)