timed math facts, wwyd

[athomeontheprairie]

WWYD? My dd8 has diligently worked on math facts for weeks. we practice multiple times a day, and while she has gotten much faster, she isn't very fast. In the TM there is now a side note saying she should be able to do these problems in 120 seconds. It takes get over 4 minutes. to do the same set orally takes slightly under 3. WWYD?

she understands everything else in the program, but not speed with the facts. how should I proceed? continue with the program as is, and continue to work on memorizing facts? Pause program and spend time only on facts? WWYD?

 

Edited: we've been working on these for months, but over the past 2 months we spent more focused time studying them.

[wapiti]

It depends.  IMO there is a big difference between being automatic - i.e., knowing the math facts - and being objectively fast.  The former would be a goal of mine but not the latter.

 

FWIW, the kids who struggle with rote memorization are often the same kids who otherwise operate on "slow" speed (and are often the same types of kids who panic under threat of timed testing, though that doesn't seem to be involved in the case of your dd).  If she doesn't know the math facts, I'd continue having her learn them on the side via games and other non-rote fun methods, all while moving forward with math concepts.  If you feel she knows the facts but just takes longer than the arbitrary standard set forth in the TM, I'd ignore the TM and move on.  In other words, use your own judgment.

 

(one of my kids operates on slow speed, and in fact has slow processing speed according to testing, but that hasn't stopped him from being several grade levels ahead in math.)

[Soror]

Well, I use RS as well and I know that it says in spots that timing doesn't working for some kids. I know it doesn't work very well for ds. I didn't usually time him as he doesn't work well when timed. We just kept working on it or I would give him a ridiculously long amount of time so he wouldn't stress out. Some kids just aren't as fast as others.

[Farrar]

My kids are just slow at them.  And if we stopped everything else to drill them, then they would just learn to loathe math, not how to get faster at math facts.  So we keep working on the side and just keep moving.  I know there's an emphasis here on really getting kids to know there.  And there's a benefit to that.  But don't do it at the expense of continuing to learn.

[mytwomonkeys]

my son knows his facts too, but his recall is just too slow. we've been using timez attack for him, which covers multiplication, division, addition, and subtraction. i am noticing improvement since he's been playing on it.  with my daughter, we did timed flash cards and would race against her own times. she loved it! my son does not (at.all), lol. thus, the use of  timez attack. :)

[MomatHWTK]

My DS has slow processing speed, no way can he meet the time criteria.  DH says he was also slow and hated timed tests for that reason.  Both are very bright. ;)

 

[Miss Tick]

I agree with Farrar, we have the same situation here. I broke out fact practice from regular math and we spend 5ish minutes 3x a week. My dc will get stressed if I put too much emphasis on it. I try to give a timed quiz once a week with a small reward for passing and no penalty for not. I also allow 4 seconds per problem, which its more than most guidelines. Whatever. They are learning them now, and we can keep practicing for speed if necessary. Meanwhile, math continues into new territory and once in a while we see places where it would be faster if they had all those facts down.

[zarabellesmom]

It depends. IMO there is a big difference between being automatic - i.e., knowing the math facts - and being objectively fast. The former would be a goal of mine but not the latter.

 

FWIW, the kids who struggle with rote memorization are often the same kids who otherwise operate on "slow" speed (and are often the same types of kids who panic under threat of timed testing, though that doesn't seem to be involved in the case of your dd). If she doesn't know the math facts, I'd continue having her learn them on the side via games and other non-rote fun methods, all while moving forward with math concepts. If you feel she knows the facts but just takes longer than the arbitrary standard set forth in the TM, I'd ignore the TM and move on. In other words, use your own judgment.

 

(one of my kids operates on slow speed, and in fact has slow processing speed according to testing, but that hasn't stopped him from being several grade levels ahead in math.)

Exactly this in every way. We saw the exact as,e thing here too. Slowwwww to learn facts, no matter how much practice. Testing says slow processing speed even when all the information is in there. It just takes a while. Some kids are like that. I wouldn't let it hold her back if she's otherwise ready to move on.

[boscopup]

Right now, I have both my school aged kids using CLE Math in some manner, which includes a daily speed drill. I have them do it at the same time. My oldest is using CLE just for "practice" of elementary math skills, so it's all review for him. His speed drill is supposed to be a certain number of facts in 1 minute. He has yet to do them all in 1 minute. He gets them all right, but it takes him an extra 20-30 seconds or so. And you know what? That's FINE. He's getting faster at them, and he definitely knows them. He rarely has fact errors in his prealgebra work. So I tell him good job and don't worry about the time. He's trying to beat his existing time, but if he can't beat the 1 minute, it's not the end of the world. He likes the speed drills, since there is no pressure on him to beat the clock. ;)

 

Strangely, my 1st grader, who tends to be slow in general at everything (like we seriously have to start getting him dressing 30 minutes before we leave, whereas the other two kids can be ready in 5 minutes) and who tends to be terrified of timed stuff, has gotten really good at the speed drills. He's doing the 2nd grade book, which has them do 28 facts in 2 minutes. He's usually beating that time by about 20 seconds. His routine is the 2 minute speed drill, plus a quick run-through of the flash cards for the day (they have a great flash card system, where it's organized by letters and you might do A and H one day, B and H the next day, C and H the next day, etc... where H has some of the higher number facts like sums of 11 and 12, and the lower letters have some lower facts). The speed drill and flash cards together take about 5 minutes, and they have really benefited this child, much to my surprise! I wish they had the lettered flash card system for multiplication/division. It's a great system!

 

Anyway, if your child KNOWS the facts but just can't answer super quickly, I wouldn't fret. Speed will come with practice. The important thing is that the facts are accessible enough to make higher math doable in a reasonable amount of time. If they're doing 23411x8373, but they're having to think really hard what 8x4 is, that's going to drag math along. So if your child can do the math that uses the facts in a reasonable amount of time, you're good to go.

[Heathermomster]

DS used to practice math facts using the computer with any timers turned off.   He practiced no more than 10 minutes per day.  Drill was separate from regular math, and I emphasized accuracy over speed.  MUS has a nice drill generator that would work well with a 10 keypad. 

[OneStepAtATime]

My husband is great at higher level math but was very, very slow at doing basic math facts.  He hated, hated, hated timed math tests.  He is now  a successful Broadcast Engineer and math is a daily need.  Just because they can't do the math in the time some book says they should doesn't mean they will never be good at math.  And frankly, I hated timed math tests, too.  Except for determining if maybe there is a learning issue, I don't see the point of timed tests.  I know lots of very smart people who understand math concepts far better than I do that do not process basic math facts quickly.

 

My own kids needed some help with math facts, and one really was still counting on her fingers at 13.  Thanks to recommendations through the Hive, (love you all here in the Hive) I went back with my dyscalculic daughter and my son who does not have that issue but was just a bit slow on basic facts and started doing subitization exercises with the Ronit Bird books and Dynamo Math.  The stuff looks so incredibly simple and way, way too basic and yet in just a couple of weeks, just doing 10-15 minutes a day, they are both processing basic addition facts far better than they ever did before, which will eventually then tie directly to faster subtraction, multiplication, and division down the road as we keep moving through.  I have been amazed at how quickly things are already processing for them after all these years of struggles!

[tomandlorih]

www.xtramath.com might work for you also.