s/o Doug Philips "resigns"

[celticmom]

On the Doug Philips thread there was some mention of Doug Wilson and a Veritas Press connection to him. This leads me to wonder if there is a connection and if so what the nature of it is between Veritas Press and the "patriarchy movement" for lack of a better term. I have been considering using Veritas Press Online for some or all of dd9's high school when the time comes. However, I do not want her exposed to these sort of toxic Ideas.

 

Their elementary go at your own pace history classes have really clicked with her learning style and I have not noticed anything too terribly problematic in the first two. Should I go back to square one and look at other options?

[Orthodox6]

One general-type approach is to decide whether you want your money to support a particular company, or not.  Many people refrain from purchasing materials from BJUP or ABeka, for example.  I no longer buy from companies that are openly, or clearly, hostile to my faith affiliation.  (This includes Veritas Press.)  The products do not have to be in agreement with my religion; they just may not openly deride it.

[Juniper]

Well, if using the online program includes part of Omnibus then you are getting Douglas Wilson material. I believe he is the editor of it.

I asked a similar question a couple years ago and had a very eye opening experience when I was in contact with Veritas Press. This household will never use them.

You can read the whole story here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/297952-omnibusdouglas-wilson-fact-gathering/page-2?hl=%2Bsimka2+%2Bveritas+%2Bpress&do=findComment&comment=3007287

[Mrs Mungo]

I can only speak for myself. For *me* Omnibus was too steeped in predestination, Calvinism, dominionism and reconstructionism to even consider using it. If you do a search on "predestination" on the forums, then you'll find quite a few threads about it (and there are some that were deleted that you won't find). 

 

Here is one such thread, in which a member of this forum was actually chastised (with Biblical passages to know he was formally chastising her as a Christian) by a staff member from VP:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/297952-omnibusdouglas-wilson-fact-gathering/?hl=%2Bomnibus+%2Bpredestination&do=findComment&comment=2996477

 

Douglas Wilson was the editor of the Omnibus books and wrote parts of them himself.

[Orthodox6]

Well, if using the online program includes part of Omnibus then you are getting Douglas Wilson material. I believe he is the editor of it.

 

I asked a similar question a couple years ago and had a very eye opening experience when I was in contact with Veritas Press. This household will never use them.

 

You can read the whole story here http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/297952-omnibusdouglas-wilson-fact-gathering/page-2?hl=%2Bsimka2+%2Bveritas+%2Bpress&do=findComment&comment=3007287

 

These kinds of reasons, too.  It is not so simple-minded for me when making purchasing decisions as avoiding insults; I also try to guard against outright, serious errors of fact, extraordinary and unjustifiable prejudices, and so forth. 

[Mrs Mungo]

For the record, we used a combination of sources for high school history. We used SWB's books, the Spielvogel books, Medieval History for Dummies and other sources. 

[JumpyTheFrog]

Doug Wilson is in the patriarchy movement. He's also the one who wrote that American slavery wasn't that bad and that generally slaves liked their masters. There's no way I'd want to use his history materials.

[Mrs Mungo]

Doug Wilson is in the patriarchy movement. He's also the one who wrote that American slavery wasn't that bad and that generally slaves liked their masters. There's no way I'd want to use his history materials.

Here's a direct quote:

Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence. There has never been a multi-racial society which has existed with such mutual intimacy and harmony in the history of the world. The credit for this must go to the predominance of Christianity. The gospel enabled men who were distinct in nearly every way, to live and work together, to be friends and often intimates. This happened to such an extent that moderns indoctrinated on “civil rights†propaganda would be thunderstruck to know the half of it.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Thanks for finding a quote.

 

OP, maybe a better title for this thread would have Doug Wilson's name in it.

[PeterPan]

Celticmom, this issue comes up occasionally, and I think if you look in the archives of the VP_Elementary or VP_Omnibus yahoo groups you'll find posts on it.  I definitely have issues with Douglas Wilson, and I had no problem using the VP elementary materials, either printed or self-paced online.  They weren't as providential in viewpoint as I would have wanted (and it never ceases to amaze me that presbyterians don't care about this), but as far as the actual DW issues you're not going to see them in the elementary stuff.  For the Omnibus sequence, yes DW wrote some of the book commentaries, and you can see large samples of that online through Google Books.  It's all there for you to see.  If you don't want to read Douglas Wilson, Sproul, and others, well don't buy it.  I got Omnibus i and ii and just really felt like I couldn't use it.  It's the curriculum I wanted to like...  And if I were teaching a different kid, I might make it work.  

 

It's really a judgment call as to whether you don't want to patronize VP or whether you merely adapt and make it work for you.  Main thing is to know that the things you might be concerned about are going to show up in Omnibus, not the elementary materials, and they're in content that is aimed at discussion and intended to be thought-provoking and debatable, not a didactic, one-sided presentation.  

 

PS.  I've kept my O1 and O2, because I may very well use them at some point.  I just clicked the link you were given, and yes I would say Bruce Etter's comments are fair.  I buy from VP and don't have qualms with it, because for me I don't have to agree with the company theologically on every single point.  Someone else can choose differently.  I used to buy materials from a company that I didn't realize at the time was mormon.  I don't think it's a sin for me, but once I found out they were using their profits to further this missions efforts I decided that probably wasn't what I wanted to do.  People just have to sort out issues for themselves I guess.

[celticmom]

Thanks for the information. I will definitely read the samples that are available. I have watched one of the samples for the new self-paced omnibus and was pleasantly surprised that several different interpretations of creation were discussed and it seemed to me that they gave them equal time. My major concern is that I don't want dd exposed to the idea that she should be limited in any way due to being female. One of the things that VP offers that I am very interested in is Linear Algebra which is now invitation only. I don't want to bother to start with their math sequence if she might not be allowed into that class for any reason other than not applying herself.

[PeterPan]

Hmm, I can definitely understand your concern, but I've never seen any similarity between Vision Forum and Veritas Press.  I just don't think you're going to have an issue there.  The invitation-only thing is probably to allow them to make sure the kids who sign up are actually ready.   The PA homeschoolers online classes do something similar, where you apply, submit test scores, etc., whatever the teacher wants to see.  

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks for the information. I will definitely read the samples that are available. I have watched one of the samples for the new self-paced omnibus and was pleasantly surprised that several different interpretations of creation were discussed and it seemed to me that they gave them equal time. My major concern is that I don't want dd exposed to the idea that she should be limited in any way due to being female. One of the things that VP offers that I am very interested in is Linear Algebra which is now invitation only. I don't want to bother to start with their math sequence if she might not be allowed into that class for any reason other than not applying herself.

If you want Linear Algebra I think AOPS offers this and they are great and have no controversy.

[Jerico]

I have a friend who just graduated high school. I know they used veritas press but I'm not sure if she was in the diploma program and to what extent... She is off at college now. I don't think veritas press is patriarchally (or maybe it's more of a degree. I've been around vision forum people and that's just a while new level.) some of their writers may be (like sproul jr.).

We are using the history but are only on the first year. There are some things I don't want to give my money too but I don't research everything or every product in life. I don't have the time. So chances are, somewhere, I'm supporting terrible things with my money. I just have to pick the most important to me. If I come across something later on in the program I dislike we can discuss then, or use it as a springboard for discussion like ohelizabeth! Shared above.

[Kim in Appalachia]

Thanks for the information. I will definitely read the samples that are available. I have watched one of the samples for the new self-paced omnibus and was pleasantly surprised that several different interpretations of creation were discussed and it seemed to me that they gave them equal time. My major concern is that I don't want dd exposed to the idea that she should be limited in any way due to being female. One of the things that VP offers that I am very interested in is Linear Algebra which is now invitation only. I don't want to bother to start with their math sequence if she might not be allowed into that class for any reason other than not applying herself.

 

 

My dd15 did Omnibus I and II online (as well as science for 7th through 9th grade).  Overall, I was pleased (we are Reformed in faith, but not that "stripe").  

 

I was also pleased with the way they dealt with creation.  I remember hearing my dd give an answer, which she stated  that a certain view could not be right since evolution is a scientific fact.  She was not reproved, nor did the teacher argue her answer (it was not a debate, just a summary answer, like an short essay question).  She got A's all the way through the course.

 

The kids in the class come from varied backgrounds and the teacher did not assume everyone was in agreement with the school's philosophy, nor did he push it.  Instead differing views were used as a way to discuss topics, with an emphasis of learning to think through issues yourself.  

 

I also used Omnibus with my oldest dd (just 1 and 2).  My only complaint is that the course goes too quickly through some materials, which made it a poor fit for my oldest dd (she can read fast, but needed to work on the details of what she read). 

 

Obviously, you have to decide if you are supporting Wilson's views by supporting Veritas Press.  I have always used materials I thought would work best. I had been someone who said she would NEVER use BJ or Abeka, but then, when I found it fit a very specific need, I did (still hate their stuff, but it did meet a need during a diffiult time).