Coomon Core- Curriculum, not politics

[Word Nerd]

Aw, c'mon, bar models? You can't blame bar models on common core. What about Singapore Math?????

 

I don't like bar models much, either, but what do bar models have to do with common core???? :confused1:

Where did I blame bar models on common core? I remember saying I don't like my DD's new math program. I gave an example because it happened to be the most recent frustration for DD, who's never struggled with math before and who would still be using the same Saxon program her sister used if it weren't for CC. My big issue is the required written explanations, which are certainly part of CC. Why so flabbergasted?????

[AimeeM]

Aw, c'mon, bar models?  You can't blame bar models on common core.  What about Singapore Math?????

 

I don't like bar models much, either, but what do bar models have to do with common core????  :confused1:

 

My issue with bar models - it isn't what we've taught, thus far.

Common core implementing them is going to have the same affect as trying to move an older child into, say, Singapore from a more traditional program (like Saxon, Horizons, or CLE) - it only serves to confuse and frustrate. A child has been educated with x method for so long and now, many many years into their educational journey, they are expected to learn the same material in an ENTIRELY different way. Singapore, for example, was a nightmare for my eldest - she is very mathematically minded, but the method was so incredibly different from what she had used previously in Catholic and public school that the result was a child who was frustrated, hated math suddently, and felt dumb.

The same complaint many veterans on this board have with math curricula hopping can be applied here. My issue isn't necessarily with common core math, as it is with suddenly deciding all children, regardless of age and previously used material/method, need to fit into a tidy little box and learn an entirely different way of doing things.

[boscopup]

Where did I blame bar models on common core? I remember saying I don't like my DD's new math program. I gave an example because it happened to be the most recent frustration for DD, who's never struggled with math before and who would still be using the same Saxon program her sister used if it weren't for CC. My big issue is the required written explanations, which are certainly part of CC. Why so flabbergasted?????

 

Saxon math is Common Core aligned now. There's no reason your school couldn't use it. They probably changed for other reasons.

 

And what's wrong with written explanations? If your child understands the math (really understands), they should not be a problem. Have you looked at the sample tests for New York that someone posted on this board? The "written explanations" didn't require paragraphs or anything like that. They just needed to in some way show how they got the answer. I have a pencil phobic mathy son who is capable of doing a lot of math in his head, and he doesn't have any trouble writing a brief explanation or showing his work. If he did have trouble, I'd be needing to take him back to the beginning of elementary math and do a lot of remediation!

 

My son had to use Saxon Math in private school, and I would have been thrilled for them to change to Go Math! :D But that's just differences in children and how they learn. It's a good reason to homeschool if curriculum choice is important to you. I've heard parents at his school complain that math and science aren't strong at the school. These are parents who know nothing about curriculum and math wars. :tongue_smilie: Is it the curriculum that makes the school weak in math? I don't know. I imagine the teachers aren't strong in math, and that will affect the students' ability to learn the math, regardless of curriculum used.

[Word Nerd]

Never mind. Go Math! Woo!

[AimeeM]

Just a note... I contacted Catholic Textbook Project. They have not, and will not, write their books to explicitly align with CCS. Alignment is incidental, although they do note, in the text, what standards are met, where, and how.

 

"We did not write our books to align with Common Core Standards, nor will we revise them so to align. Among the Common Core Standards for English literacy are certain goals which accord with sound classical Liberal Arts goals --- and our books thus can be used to meet these goals. But this is by chance, not by design on our part. Our aim is to provide textbooks that schools and home schooling parents may use to educate students in the best traditions of Catholic education."

Same here.   To me, their approach to teaching writing makes no sense.   It's like saying:  We have a lot of road accidents, and we need all our students to be proficient drivers by age 16.   So we're going to look at the way skilled adults drive cars, and start implementing this curriculum starting from the beginning of school.  For instance, Kindergarteners will be expected to drive 5 meters.  (In a golf cart, sitting in the teacher's lap, with both pairs of hands on the wheel.)  

 

My understanding is that the language arts standards are also supposed to be applied to other subject areas.   We've found it helpful to use mainstream workbooks and textbooks for some topics in history and geography, and I try to seek out the ones that have more varied and interesting writing activities.   If they all start following the CC formula, that's going to cut back on our options. 

 

Many Catholic dioceses are adopting CC, too -- which I guess means that the Catholic Schools Textbook Project will be following the standards with their future publications. ( They wouldn't able to keep going without the parochial schools as a customer base.)   And the Protestant homeschool curricula aren't really an option for us, because they tend to introduce things that aren't compatible with our faith. 

 

It's not the end of the world.  I can come up with the writing part myself, or use older materials, or ones from other countries.  But it's alienating to think about teaching social studies without any social support.  ;)

 

[ElizaG]

Just a note... I contacted Catholic Textbook Project. They have not, and will not, write their books to explicitly align with CCS. Alignment is incidental, although they do note, in the text, what standards are met, where, and how.

 

"We did not write our books to align with Common Core Standards, nor will we revise them so to align. Among the Common Core Standards for English literacy are certain goals which accord with sound classical Liberal Arts goals --- and our books thus can be used to meet these goals. But this is by chance, not by design on our part. Our aim is to provide textbooks that schools and home schooling parents may use to educate students in the best traditions of Catholic education."

 

Well, that's some good news, at least.  Thank you for asking them!  :001_smile:   I hope they can come up with the funding to do the elementary series before too long.  

 

(We're especially feeling the need for geography books over here, since the only ones written from a Catholic educational perspective are about 60 years old.  At that point, they're more history than geography.  ;) )

[Stellalarella]

You hear a lot out there about CC and how it's good or bad for the country for various political reasons. But what about the standards themselves? When looking at curriculum, some advertise as being aligned with CC standards. Is this a positive or negative thing to you? What makes a CC aligned curriculum different than a non-CC aligned curriculum? Thoughts?

 

 

I've balked over CC aligned curriculum just over increased prices.  MUS aligned, added pages to the books, and increased their prices.  So when we needed to buy more books, I ordered the older editions (cheaper) that they still had hanging around.

 

I'm needing to download MM, but I keep trying to hit the big "sale" and also want to wait till she (Maria Miller, the sole author) has finished fully aligning all the grade level books. Prices for MM also went up due to the rewriting/alignment. 

 

Can you imagine the editorial meetings at textbook companies--15 people crammed into a room with textbooks spread out in front of them.  "Can we squeeze this CC standard out of this paragraph here on page 42?"  "I don't know Bob, how about we add a sentence."  "Oh yeah, then we can wrap up both this standard and this other one."  "I don't know."  "Well, it's pretty close."  "I don't think we need to really rewrite the book." 

 

It's not like there's anybody out there double and triple checking textbooks to see if they are really, truly, honest to goodness CC aligned.  

 

How on earth someone managed to think that MUS could be !presto! CC aligned is funny to me.  I love MUS, I use MUS, but fractions aren't given a proper introduction until the fifth book.  Sure, MUS can toss in a few fractions pages in the new Gamma book (roughly corresponding to 3rd grade), but does that make it CC aligned?  

 

For me, I am going to use a curriculum if it is the one we need and want.  I make a note of CC alignment, but I am not out there shopping it.  

[Stellalarella]

Here are the Common Core Standards written out as "I can" statements.  I thought these were handy.  It softens some of the eduspeak.  free downloadable and printable 

http://www.thecurriculumcorner.com/2012/12/03/i-can-common-core-standards-k-5/   

[Chrysalis Academy]

FWIW, MM is aligned, 1-6A.  And if you buy it now, she will send you the newly aligned 6B for free when it is done.

 

When I bought it, only the first two grades were revised, but she sends free updates to old customers if you ask.  So no need to wait!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Here are the Common Core Standards written out as "I can" statements.  I thought these were handy.  It softens some of the eduspeak.  free downloadable and printable 

http://www.thecurriculumcorner.com/2012/12/03/i-can-common-core-standards-k-5/   

 

Thanks for posting these.  Very interesting.  I think my 2nd grader is good, with the exception of "I can write to persuade."  My 6th grader can't even do that very well!  :lol:

[Stellalarella]

FWIW, MM is aligned, 1-6A.  And if you buy it now, she will send you the newly aligned 6B for free when it is done.

 

When I bought it, only the first two grades were revised, but she sends free updates to old customers if you ask.  So no need to wait!

 OH--that's good.  Silly  me.  I kept thinking I wasn't going to buy it if it wasn't done.

[Stellalarella]

Thanks for posting these.  Very interesting.  I think my 2nd grader is good, with the exception of "I can write to persuade."  My 6th grader can't even do that very well!  :lol:

 

 

I know what you mean.  I think the closest my elementary kids have come to persuasive writing is the hastily scrawled note they hand me when I am on the phone "Mom, please, please, please can we do XYZ if we promise to ABC?????????? Circle YES or NO!!!!!!!!!!"

 

But should that happen again anytime soon, I will be sure to check the box for the  "Persuasive Writing" standard.

 

I think I will print up "Common Core Aligned" stickers to gently affix to my kids' foreheads.  Not slap on their foreheads, you know...

 

You know how peddlers of things will attach "COLLECT THEM ALL," and "COMPLETE THE SET" to their pretty things so they can sell more?  

 

Now as we purchase curriculum, we can Rest Assured it is COMMON CORE ALIGNED.  At least until the common core gets realigned.....

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Multiplication facts are in grade 3 Common Core Standards:

 

CCSS.Math.Content.3.OA.C.7 Fluently multiply and divide within 100, using strategies such as the relationship between multiplication and division (e.g., knowing that 8 × 5 = 40, one knows 40 ÷ 5 = 8) or properties of operations. By the end of Grade 3, know from memory all products of two one-digit numbers.

 

That's great that it says that. My friends twins are in 3rd grade, her middle daughter is in 4th. They are not being taught their multiplication facts. And the schools are already aligning with CC.

[Roadrunner]

My friend was over tonight with her kids. Her son is a freshmen in local high school and he tells me the only noticeable change post CC is math. I don't know which publisher they are now using, but apparently textbooks have been eliminated and instead they are using workbooks with integrated math. Apparently the teacher is struggling with a new presentation (he couldn't articulate specifics) and lots of kids are failing. This high school is ranked in the top 2% in the country. To tell you the truth, I am puzzled. They aren't suffering from the lack of good teachers. Why is post CC math such a mystery ?

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm not sure about your friend's son's case, because my musings don't really apply to the high school level, but I've been thinking about this a lot:  in 6 years experience in public schools around here, not one elementary teacher that I've met was a "math person."  The majority of them were not comfortable or knowledgeable about math above a 6th grade level.  They were competent to "teach" the math at their level, but they didn't get math, understand it, at the level to teach it with a deep and conceptual understanding.  They don't get math at the level the CC is asking the kids to get it.  So how can they hope to succeed at teaching this way, without extremely significant training, mentoring, etc.?

 

It seems like we do this a lot in this country - we id a problem, and then come up with some complex meta-fix for it, without addressing implementation.  Common core is more of the same.  Without significant improvements in math teaching at the elementary level, there won't be significant improvements in kids' math abilities.  Curriculum, or Standards, really don't matter as much as competent teaching.

[MBM]

One of our nearby elementary schools put together a web page of resources discussing CCSS and what parents can do at home to help their children. Some here might find it helpful. This is for Illinois, btw.

 

http://www.wilmette39.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=29&Itemid=32

 

On a different tangent, they also have a short article at the same site that discusses children and perfectionism. The author's books might be worth checking out if you're worried about that.

[Roadrunner]

I'm not sure about your friend's son's case, because my musings don't really apply to the high school level, but I've been thinking about this a lot: in 6 years experience in public schools around here, not one elementary teacher that I've met was a "math person." The majority of them were not comfortable or knowledgeable about math above a 6th grade level. They were competent to "teach" the math at their level, but they didn't get math, understand it, at the level to teach it with a deep and conceptual understanding. They don't get math at the level the CC is asking the kids to get it. So how can they hope to succeed at teaching this way, without extremely significant training, mentoring, etc.?

 

It seems like we do this a lot in this country - we id a problem, and then come up with some complex meta-fix for it, without addressing implementation. Common core is more of the same. Without significant improvements in math teaching at the elementary level, there won't be significant improvements in kids' math abilities. Curriculum, or Standards, really don't matter as much as competent teaching.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this, but I am afraid you are right. High school math teachers are credentialed in math, right? How can they be so thrown off by new standards! :(.

I just hope they figure this out quickly.

I was looking at Diane Ravitch's blog today and she has an example of a third grade CC math problem parents are complaining about. There is nothing mysterious about that problem, yet apparently some adults think it's too difficult. My second grader chuckled when I read it to him.

[Word Nerd]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this, but I am afraid you are right. High school math teachers are credentialed in math, right? How can they be so thrown off by new standards! :(.

I just hope they figure this out quickly.

I was looking at Diane Ravitch's blog today and she has an example of a third grade CC math problem parents are complaining about. There is nothing mysterious about that problem, yet apparently some adults think it's too difficult. My second grader chuckled when I read it to him.

Here is the problem: http://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/26/third-grader-orepares-for-the-global-economy/

[Kathryn]

Here is the problem: http://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/26/third-grader-orepares-for-the-global-economy/

My son is doing third grade math right now. He could do this problem, BUT he would throw a fit over it because of all the work involved in one problem. To him, it would be better to have four different problems than one problem in which he had four different things to figure out.

[Word Nerd]

My son is doing third grade math right now. He could do this problem, BUT he would throw a fit over it because of all the work involved in one problem. To him, it would be better to have four different problems than one problem in which he had four different things to figure out.

I think it's worded poorly.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this, but I am afraid you are right. High school math teachers are credentialed in math, right? How can they be so thrown off by new standards! :(.

I just hope they figure this out quickly.

I was looking at Diane Ravitch's blog today and she has an example of a third grade CC math problem parents are complaining about. There is nothing mysterious about that problem, yet apparently some adults think it's too difficult. My second grader chuckled when I read it to him.

Then say if you have three rows for each. The first will have 8 in each row, the second has 10 each row, the third has rows of 5, 5, and 6. The fourth has Rows of 8, 8, 9. Is that one of the correct ways to arrange them? I need help with this. It is impossible to have equal numbers of items in each row of the same veggies for all of them. Please tell me if the way I do it is one of the correct arrangements.

 

Another interpretation would be that each row has equal number of veggies in its own category. So you can put The first veggies in 4x6, the second in 3x10, the third in 4x4, and the fourth in 5x5. Is this the correct interpretation?

 

Yes, the wording is the stumbling block and the last thing a third grader needs is this kind of math with bad wording. I think my sons would ask, "What does it want me to do?" because I as an adult interpret it in two ways and it is highly likely the kids would do the same.

[Leav97]

 

“Easton has been raising vegetables in his garden all summer. He plans to sell some of his vegetables at a local farmer’s market.

“He has selected 24 radishes, 30 onions, 16 heads of lettuce and 25 tomatoes to sell. He wants to display the radishes together, the onions together, the lettuce together, and the tomatoes together, and to place them in sets with equal rows for each kind of vegetable.

“He plans to put each kind of vegetable in at least 2 rows. Show ALL the different ways that he can display equal rows for each kind of the vegetables at the market. Write an equation for each way you find.â€

 

 

The key words are equal rows for each kind.  In math the language arts are just as important as the arithmetic.  

 

 

Radishes - 2x12, 3x8, 4x6

onions - 2x15, 3x10, 5x6

lettuce, 2x8 or 4x4

tomatoes, 5x5

 

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

The key words are equal rows for each kind. In math the language arts are just as important as the arithmetic.

 

 

Radishes - 2x12, 3x8, 4x6

onions - 2x15, 3x10, 5x6

lettuce, 2x8 or 4x4

tomatoes, 5x5

I learned Englsih as a foreign language. Now I do see where I erred. Thanks for the help. I will show the problem to my ds and since they are native English speakers, they may do it fine

[Kathryn]

The key words are equal rows for each kind. In math the language arts are just as important as the arithmetic.

 

 

Radishes - 2x12, 3x8, 4x6

onions - 2x15, 3x10, 5x6

lettuce, 2x8 or 4x4

tomatoes, 5x5

Actually, they want you to say 2x12, 3x8, 4x6, 6x4, 8x3, 12x2 for radishes and on and on for the others. Part of what they want is for kids to understand that 2x12 is the same as 12x2.

[eloquacious]

I've balked over CC aligned curriculum just over increased prices. MUS aligned, added pages to the books, and increased their prices. So when we needed to buy more books, I ordered the older editions (cheaper) that they still had hanging around.

 

I'm needing to download MM, but I keep trying to hit the big "sale" and also want to wait till she (Maria Miller, the sole author) has finished fully aligning all the grade level books. Prices for MM also went up due to the rewriting/alignment.

 

Can you imagine the editorial meetings at textbook companies--15 people crammed into a room with textbooks spread out in front of them. "Can we squeeze this CC standard out of this paragraph here on page 42?" "I don't know Bob, how about we add a sentence." "Oh yeah, then we can wrap up both this standard and this other one." "I don't know." "Well, it's pretty close." "I don't think we need to really rewrite the book."

 

It's not like there's anybody out there double and triple checking textbooks to see if they are really, truly, honest to goodness CC aligned.

 

How on earth someone managed to think that MUS could be !presto! CC aligned is funny to me. I love MUS, I use MUS, but fractions aren't given a proper introduction until the fifth book. Sure, MUS can toss in a few fractions pages in the new Gamma book (roughly corresponding to 3rd grade), but does that make it CC aligned?

 

For me, I am going to use a curriculum if it is the one we need and want. I make a note of CC alignment, but I am not out there shopping it.

You don't have to wait for MM to be completely aligned. Maria Miller will send you the updated files as needed. I bought MM light blue ages ago, and She has already sent me years 1 and 2 in the updated version. I don't need the later years yet, so I'll wait and then get them all at once, but if I requested years 3 and 4 she would do the same.