Talking to your kids about their education. (AKA How to excel in the role of guidance counselor?)

[8filltheheart]

Ah, well you mentioned that the kids were starting to balk a bit about following where you were leading and seemed to be interested towards leaning more towards interest led so I was addressing that thought. Things are going well here as well but there is always something to tweak:) personally I'm still trying to figure out our own style that fits us and I've been going around reading all my favorite posters gleaning what I can.

 

I do think our specific studies is a separate issue but related as well. I think the more we know our own philosophy and our plans the more we can share with our kids. When discussing the future we have to know how much we are looking for their input, or is it just a philosophical question? Is the discussion being used to get them to buy into our own plans or is it more of a collaboration?

 

I've just done a bit of talking w/ my own, they are still pretty young. I've been in reflection mode though which really wouldn't be helpful to share. I'm pondering what are the primary reasons we started hs'ing? Are we accomplishing those goals? Could I do better? Does our school fit our family? Am I falling into doing what I think we should be doing or what I want us to do?

 

I want them to have enough freedom to explore many possibilities. I realized recently that b/c of my own upbringing I was limiting my options for them, not literally but in my thoughts of their possibilities. I read a post recently by Corraleno talking about how some people say life is boring and our kids should learn to expect this and how she didn't expect this and her life was never boring (horrible rephrase but I'm typing in a hurry here). Anyway, this is horribly rambly but personally I have to nail down my thoughts.

 

Hs'ing is everything I dreamed and nothing I imagined. I hope soon I figure it out.

 

Both of the bolded.....I love.   And both go beyond homeschooling philosophy/methodology and to the core of parenthood itself.

 

I am really tired and not very focused, but I wanted to expand upon these 2 thoughts b/c I think they are probably where Jenn was going with her post and where I am as well. (sorry, Jenn if this is totally off your pt!!   Perhaps my foggy brain syndrome is interfering with my interpretations)  But, bc I am so tired, my thoughts are probably not going to make any sense.  :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway, when I read posts about "when do you expect kids to take ownership over their educations" or "when do your kids start to work independently," I get a sense that in some respects it boils down to how we view our roles as parents and how we view our children's roles as individuals functioning in a family unit.   

 

With the exception of really little kids (like primary grades when a 5 yr old would really rather be doing anything other than sitting still), what is the responsibility of the child toward themselves?   What are the implications of the parent owning the education more than the student?  Why is it occurring in the first place?   What is the child envisioning life as being?   How do they see themselves and their role in their family, in the community, in society, in the future?  

 

I think this peripherally related to what you say Jackie (Corraleno) suggested.   (I haven't seen the post, so this may be off as well.)  But where does boredom come from?   How is life boring?

 

If kids live lives that are scheduled for them from the minute they wake up to the minute they go to bed with this activity and that activity, this practice, that lesson, etc and someone is constantly telling them they need to do this/that, where does the sense of "them" and their ability to become responsible for the him/her in themselves come from?   When do they even have the time or the energy or opportunity to be surrounded by silence and nothingness to actually face themselves?

 

When do we as parents need to step back and put our views on the backburner and put the child's in the forefront?   How do we help them become the best they are capable of being w/o superimposing ourselves on them?   What is the balance between child/parent?

 

FWIW, I agree with Jenn in that I don't have educational philosophical discussions with my kids, but how those issues impact our lives and their lives, now and in the future, that is just how live.   For example, we have never had a single conversation with our kids about expecting them to go to college.  We do discuss being responsible for financial obligations and the types of issues that come with various types of employment.   I think that deciding to go to college or not is not my role to decide for them.   Once they are adults, their lives are theirs to manage.   All of our kids have gone to college (even our Aspie has finished close to 4 semesters of college credit) and have career objectives (with the exception of ds) so far.  ;)    But, seriously, I don't take ownership over their futures to that degree.

 

Even when our kids are older teens, we give them lots of direction, but the rope is left lying around.  ;)

 

Oh well, that is probably a completely incoherent ramble.  :leaving:

 

 

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

What the heck is a PBL person? Am I one?!! LoL :laugh:

 

Too many threads within this thread to respond in any rational manner to everything. Just wanted to throw in a few random thoughts.

 

You all have kids so very different from my own! Mine NEVER wanted to know my philosophy, never wanted to discuss long term educational goals until they were perhaps 13 or 14. Or older. Of course they had their interests, and I indulged those interests because I'm one of those directed unschooler oxymoronic types. I never really talked about college, or what they would need to succeed in college -- we were too busy exploring the world, their interests, and doing basic school-skills kinds of academics. My youngest must have been 14 or 15 when I explained to him what unschooling is and he was utterly aghast!

 

Mentors are fantastic. Whether it is a teacher for an outsourced academic subject, a music, theater or dance teacher or athletic coach, or as my kids had as teens an adult teaching adult-level skills, a mentor really helps kids learn how to be a grown up while unlocking the deeper mysteries of whatever subject of skill they are teaching. In the earlier years we read some biographies, we'd talk with people about the cool jobs they had and how they came to have them. My oldest even wrote to the head of Disney Imagineering once and in reply got a stack of letters different Imagineers had written over the years in answer to the question, "How do you become an Imagineer?" My ds, bless his heart, at the age of 12, was utterly disgusted and disenchanted with the lot of them because each letter talked about the importance of a well-rounded education! At the age of 12 he thought all school of any kind was a stupid waste of time!! (And yes he did go onto college, though it was a professional school and most decidedly NOT a liberal arts school!)

 

I never *required* projects. The interest led and project based work my kids did arose mostly from their own unlimited fount of ideas and creative impulses. Sometimes it was simply a way for me to harness their passionate interests into working on a skill such as writing. Or to help them to hone their research skills to find out more about something that fascinated them. I did not want to formalize everything -- it would have sucked the joy out of it for them. I mostly stayed out of their way and provided resources for their interests, whether it meant lots of driving or just leaving them alone with piles of craft supplies or legos, or letting them have full use of the camcorder.

PBL is Project-Based Learning. My kids tend toward projects, so I honor that. I don't require them either. The suggestion for a curriculum requiring them was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. What has worked well here so far is me setting the general course and the kids deciding which islands to hop off and explore in depth. They even choose different islands.

 

About the discussion or expectation of college thing, it was an epiphany for me that although I say pursuing a trade or attending college is fine with me, I have been inadvertently assuming that my kids would go to college. That is part of the reason for this thread, to think more clearly about what I am discussing and conveying in my relationships with my kids, to be more purposeful.

 

If you asked my kids if they had any interest in my educational philosophy, they wouldn't even know what you mean. They have just expressed interest in what I was working so hard on, what I was reading so intently. So I told them and read them some, and they found it interesting. I'm not trying to have coffee-house/poetry-reading contemplative discussions. :lol: It's more that it is occurring to me that since they do show interest when I share, that I should take that opportunity and share more. So that is the purpose of the thread: to ask in what ways people have opened up or maintained a dialogue with their kids about the present, mid-term, and long-term aspects of their education. :)

[Alte Veste Academy]

They don't spring up naturally exactly, but being alert for moments that lend themselves--or doing things to tend to create such moments-- can make them seem to "spring up" rather than trying to bring it up out of thin air. Because in his case, a year ago or so, ds had seemed to not have any interest in or aspirations beyond the present moment and had had a resistant to school phase, getting books or movies (such as mentioned in my last post) was something that I did quite deliberately to help it to "spring up" --and perhaps initiating conversation then about the aspects of the books or films I wanted to get at with "what do you think about_____" type questions.

 

More recently, sometimes a friend of his will say something that will make it "spring up". Such as at one point he heard a friend, then starting high school, whose mom was tryng to get the friend to take college prep type courses, and the friend did not want to. The mom was explaining that she felt sorry that she did not get to go to college and wanted her son to. Or, another time, while I was driving a different friend said her dad had said there was something called Ivy Covered Colleges (sic) and I explained a bit about that, and said I had been to one, and if the friend (whose dad did not go to college) wanted to know about that, or the sort of path it takes to do that, I would be very willing to discuss that. I hope if ds wants to know about how to get into a trade the friend's father would be willing to tell ds, because I am likely as clueless about how to do that as the friend's father is about college paths, maybe more so.

 

Anyway, if I am alert to these, I can tend to make it happen without some awkward, now we are going to sit down and talk about your future, sort of beginning, which for my ds would cause a shutdown. Or, I can deliberately bring materials into play that tend to make these conversations happen more easily.

 

I can also use things that ds is reading anyway--for example, to think about how Harry Potter, if he wants to be an ?Auror? (I forget what it was called), it takes certain classes at Hogwarts to be able to get into training for that... and there is a point where it seems he won't be able to do it because his grade in the Owl level was not high enough to take the advanced level in potions, a required class. That is not so different than real life planning for careers.

 

Now it looks like I have a lot more posts to catch up on reading!

Good stuff, thanks. I am decidedly weak in the mindfulness area! Love the Harry Potter example! :D

[Alte Veste Academy]

When I was in school, NO ONE EVER sat me down and said, "This is where you are, this is where you want to be, this is how you get there." NO ONE. So, really, no. Perhaps some students in school get this, or see it somehow, but not me. This is one of my great irritations about my PS so-called education -- that it started in a fog and ended in a fog, with no greater clarity of purpose or method or vision. There was no vision. There were only classes and assignments and papers and tests, from Kindergarten to Graduation, but no vision, no over-arching purpose for being there, other than that was the expectation.

 

My children are even younger than yours, so get out the salt. ;)

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with the phrase "a long-term partnership kind of way." That is what you could start aiming at with your oldest, drawing him in to what is in your head/planner, showing him what you read, showing him how you research and make choices, asking for input, discussing what you chose and why.

 

• Show them & discuss the short-term goals, materials, and reasons why (current school year): My oldest is nearing nine, my twins are almost seven. For the past two years (yup), when we start the new school year, we meet together to talk about the upcoming year. We go over what the materials are, what we will call them (e.g., The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading becomes "OPG" or "The Reading Lesson Book"), where they will be stored, and so on. We go over routines, too, but that's different from sharing the vision for the year. When we first start the year, we lay out ALL the things we will use and do. This creates great excitement and enthusiasm for getting to all the lovely books, materials, art supplies (especially :rolleyes: ), and whatever else we put out in the line-up. FWIW, we never finish it all, LOL. But at the beginning of the year, we talk about what we've lined up for each level and as a group. For example, I'll say, "In Science this year, we will be studying Weather and Water (explanation, show materials). We'll also do Daily Science (explanation, show materials), and Nature Study (explanation, show materials). In History this year, we'll be continuing with The American Story (explanation, show materials), and in Geography, we'll continue our work with States and Capitals (explanation, show materials). In Christian Discipleship this year, we'll....." And so on. They ask questions, I ask questions, they talk about their own goals, I give the "work hard" speech, and so on. It's like First Day Show and Tell for the Homeschool Line-Up. Then we get to work on the day-to-day stuff. So, about an hour once a year for that.
• Show them the progress they are making towards the goals, completing the material, or why/how the reasons for something have shifted. About every quarter (nine weeks for us), we very informally talk about how the school year is going. I just realized this almost always happens while we are all folding laundry. ? :001_huh:? Anyway, we talk about finishing this part of Math or that chapter book or that unit or whatever. We talk about what is up ahead, if we are "behind" or "ahead" in our work, and I even tell them that no matter what Mommy's stupid checklist says, they are never behind in the truest sense, they are beautiful, genius children who work hard and fold laundry nicely. ;) They understand that I am Box Checker Mother, and they are okay with that defect in my personality. A periodic checking-in like this seems to help all of us stay motivated in November, February, May, and August (we're year-rounders, sort of). So, about 15 minutes, four times a year.
• Show them the longer term plans that you have for them as individual students. My oldest, in particular, likes to sneak up behind me while I am researching or planning. She reads over my shoulder. She now has to pay me a quarter every time I catch her doing this. However, she does have an interest in the long-term plan, just like your son did. It's funny, she has the same reaction to learning what's in my head -- it's like I'm sharing a special secret. LOL. I usually get, "Hmm... that's interesting, Mommy, thanks for sharing that with me. I like talking about homeschool stuff with you, and what you're thinking about it." So cute. I think our children can see us planning like fiends, and never know what we're doing all that while, unless we pull them to us, put an arm around them, and share and explain. Anyway, she has seen THE PLAN. Yes, she has seen it, and lived to tell about it. She has seen The Plan to Home Educate You Until the Year of Our Lord 2024, which lays it all out, Sister. In grid format. With colored fonts. So. The child survived the glimpse into her educational future.
• Show them where you hide your dark chocolate. Because, after a child has seen The Plan, that child will need to know #4.
• Sometime around 5th grade, begin to talk about how Education works, or can work. This is my plan, anyway. Haven't done it yet, but sometimes it comes up with oldest (3rd grader this year). We'll make a chart or time-line:

Baby--Preschooler--PreK-K-1-2-3-4-5 (you are here)-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-College? [F, Soph, J, S]--Graduate School? [Master's degrees, etc.]--Doctoral degrees?

 

In this post, I can't put in all the branches and permutations, such as trades or internships or non-traditional paths to somewhere. I don't think I'd get into all that with a 5th grader, anyway, especially not one I hoped would pursue the most academic path available at that point (later in the game is more her choice). But you get the idea.

 

We would talk about how the learning begins at birth, then progresses naturally at home in infancy. We would discuss the Primary Years (PreK, K, 1, 2), the work we did at those levels, and how she is so far beyond all that basic A-B-C stuff. LOL. She would love that!

 

We would discuss 3rd and 4th grades, how they were a bit harder than the Primary Years, and how 5th is going to be even harder! Hint, hint. We'd talk about how and when we added in things, like Latin and French and Music Theory (or whatever), and how long you can study each and why it's important to keep going with languages and music (or whatever I decide to say when we get there).

 

We would then look ahead, become familiar with the terms. "Middle school." "High school." "Credit." "Course." "Syllabus." "Transcript." "College application process." "Financial aid." "Scholarships." "Major." "Minor." And so on. How are students supposed to know how the system works, unless we explicitly explain it to them? They may not even know that the first-year students are called "freshmen," or that college costs money, or that they may earn scholarships, other basic facts that pertain to school life.

 

In looking ahead, I would once again pull out The Plan. We would look at what has been accomplished, and at what is left to do. Fifth or sixth grade is a nice half-way point, with enough time before high school to give the student some time to process and make adjustments in work ethic, outlook, personal initiative, and goals. I'm hoping that in two years, she'll be ready for more input on how it all works down the road, what course follows on another, how education accumulates and integrates into a meaningful whole, and so on.

 

For example, I plan to explain how Math and Science build on themselves. What is the sequence? How far will you, the student, plan to go in that sequence? What are your options? What will doing three years of Math mean, as opposed to doing four years? What will it mean for you if you don't complete Physics? What courses are absolutely NOT optional, in Mom's opinion? What could be negotiated as perhaps optional? Why or why not?

 

What will the trajectory be for other subjects? What materials do we think we may use? Why? What is the student's learning style? How does that impact what we study and what materials we use?

 

That's the plan at this point. For me the main thing I keep in mind is that there is a time and season for sharing "what's in my head," and I'm hoping to know intuitively what and when to share. If I told my young children all that's in there, they would run to the school bus, LOL. ;) Slowly, but steadily, I am going to transfer, not only the vision, but the responsibility, firmly over to them. "This is your education, not mine. I've already done _____ grade."

Regarding no one ever having sat down with you in school, that wasn't so much what I meant by getting a view of the trajectory as seeing the progress of the older kids, the feed from pre-K to K to elementary to middle to high. To hear friends and their siblings discuss this teacher or that class, what they were taking, to hear them talk about aspirations and plans, etc. I was a good student and hung with other good students, so although I didn't get much actual guidance counseling from the school counselor, we talked and checked and kept each other in line.

 

Thanks for the thoughts! I do see where it will be useful before later middle school to start discussing specific terms and requirements into various forward paths. What I bolded is how I feel too. And although I have also made a tentative K-12 spreadsheet for each child, for my own planning purposes and to get my thoughts out onto paper so they don't have to stay in my brain, I definitely do want to be able to transfer increasing amounts of control over what is entered or deleted in those spreadsheets over the years. Some things are non-negotiable, but there will be many places open to change.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I don't meant to do that!

 

I tend toward the "simplicity parenting" and avoid the "Hurried Child" syndrome side. Ds is allowed to try one thing per whatever, semester, year, however it might run, and we both have input in it. Actually, one thing of his choice, and if I insist on something else, then it does not count against his own choice.

 

I thought the friend whose parents did not go for all out for ballet with her did the right thing, by and large, in so far as I think she realistically had no chance to become professional in it (despite her thought that she might have), and also I do not think they could have done it actually with other children and their own jobs and so on. But I also saw the long term angst about it. Gymnastics was something lots of parents were doing with their kids, when he was at B&M and he had one time at a gymnastics place for a birthday and loved it, but I nixed it because it did not seem realistic for us, nor anything that would make for a lifetime hobby for him either.

 

Musical instrument otoh, I did have him at least try for a year, not because I thought he would be a musician, but I thought it is a good thing to have, but I did not insist he continue with it. Though I do mention it from time to time, and I will say things like the age you are at now is a good age for learning an instrument, would you like to try again? But if the answer is no, that is okay. It is a lot of time and energy and expense for me, particularly since we live in the country and it is a long drive to get to a teacher.

 

We actually face a bit of a dilemma now with that which is his choice last year was fencing. He's not chosen anything for this year, and I am trying to decide whether to push him to continue with fencing or let it be.

I was kidding. LOL I should feel bad about it (potentially), but I don't. She got her mother's height, so she doesn't stand a chance in the long-term. Plus, her two bff's are both in gymnastics and they teach her for free. :tongue_smilie:

 

My kids do swim team and music lessons (by choice). Before we moved, I had them in a homeschool art class because DD lives for art. I didn't consider that an extracurricular though, just something someone else taught better than I could...with a sense of community to boot. Since moving, I've not been able to find something comparable, but I am doing a better job at home...or maybe it's that the kids are getting older and easier to instruct! :D

[Farrar]

I was thinking more about the issue of mentors and other adults.  I think this is one of the reasons to have kids meet people doing real jobs out there and hear how they got to where they are in life.  And also one of the reasons to read biographies.  To imagine your own future life and your path through it.  We do read biographies (love those Scientist in the Field books, which you were one of the first people I saw mention, Alte Veste) but we've done less of the meeting real people thing and I'd like to do more.  A friend of mine is great at this - she will walk right up to anyone with her kids and talk to them about their life.  I wish I was that bold!

[Alte Veste Academy]

Ah, well you mentioned that the kids were starting to balk a bit about following where you were leading and seemed to be interested towards leaning more towards interest led so I was addressing that thought. Things are going well here as well but there is always something to tweak:) personally I'm still trying to figure out our own style that fits us and I've been going around reading all my favorite posters gleaning what I can.

Yes, I did mention that. I was kind of following a tangent and getting away from the OP by doing so though. It is something I have just started to observe and something I need to discuss with the kids and tweak, but not so much the main impetus for this conversation. Does that make sense. While obviously necessary and important, conversation about how long to park on a period of time or unit in science is not really the kind of long-term discussion I was originally getting at. It's more similar to the conversations we already have as we tweak our days/weeks/school year. Right now, I feel it would involve a relatively simple tweak, not a complete overhaul, and what I meant by school is going fine is that they wouldn't want to change the way we do things enormously, just that they would like more time allowed to park before we did move on, when it was fine before.

 

I do think our specific studies is a separate issue but related as well. I think the more we know our own philosophy and our plans the more we can share with our kids. When discussing the future we have to know how much we are looking for their input, or is it just a philosophical question? Is the discussion being used to get them to buy into our own plans or is it more of a collaboration?

Yes, I guess I see it as a funnel, with educational philosophy, curricula, plans, and specifics getting winnowed down to what happens every single day.

 

I will say that with this post and with 8's, I find myself (probably wrongly) starting to get defensive here though. It's impossible to see into each others' homeschools. So everyone will have to trust me when I say that my kids get plenty of buy-in. This is very much a practical question to me. As I said, my kids get tons of input into their school days. This is not a case of me wanting to dictate and coercing them to be happy followers of my most excellent plan. Snort. As if. Not me at all. It is hard to imagine those who have read my posts here for years could deny my history of collaboration. LOL

 

I've just done a bit of talking w/ my own, they are still pretty young. I've been in reflection mode though which really wouldn't be helpful to share. I'm pondering what are the primary reasons we started hs'ing? Are we accomplishing those goals? Could I do better? Does our school fit our family? Am I falling into doing what I think we should be doing or what I want us to do?

 

I want them to have enough freedom to explore many possibilities. I realized recently that b/c of my own upbringing I was limiting my options for them, not literally but in my thoughts of their possibilities. I read a post recently by Corraleno talking about how some people say life is boring and our kids should learn to expect this and how she didn't expect this and her life was never boring (horrible rephrase but I'm typing in a hurry here). Anyway, this is horribly rambly but personally I have to nail down my thoughts.

 

Hs'ing is everything I dreamed and nothing I imagined. I hope soon I figure it out.

Homeschooling is just plain hard sometimes. And every evolution necessitates readjustment. In this case, I'm trying to anticipate my path ahead of time, but when you're in the middle of the dream not matching up with reality, it's hard, I know. I've been there!

[Alte Veste Academy]

Both of the bolded.....I love. And both go beyond homeschooling philosophy/methodology and to the core of parenthood itself.

 

I am really tired and not very focused, but I wanted to expand upon these 2 thoughts b/c I think they are probably where Jenn was going with her post and where I am as well. (sorry, Jenn if this is totally off your pt!! Perhaps my foggy brain syndrome is interfering with my interpretations) But, bc I am so tired, my thoughts are probably not going to make any sense. :tongue_smilie:

 

Anyway, when I read posts about "when do you expect kids to take ownership over their educations" or "when do your kids start to work independently," I get a sense that in some respects it boils down to how we view our roles as parents and how we view our children's roles as individuals functioning in a family unit.

 

With the exception of really little kids (like primary grades when a 5 yr old would really rather be doing anything other than sitting still), what is the responsibility of the child toward themselves? What are the implications of the parent owning the education more than the student? Why is it occurring in the first place? What is the child envisioning life as being? How do they see themselves and their role in their family, in the community, in society, in the future?

 

I think this peripherally related to what you say Jackie (Corraleno) suggested. (I haven't seen the post, so this may be off as well.) But where does boredom come from? How is life boring?

 

If kids live lives that are scheduled for them from the minute they wake up to the minute they go to bed with this activity and that activity, this practice, that lesson, etc and someone is constantly telling them they need to do this/that, where does the sense of "them" and their ability to become responsible for the him/her in themselves come from? When do they even have the time or the energy or opportunity to be surrounded by silence and nothingness to actually face themselves?

 

When do we as parents need to step back and put our views on the backburner and put the child's in the forefront? How do we help them become the best they are capable of being w/o superimposing ourselves on them? What is the balance between child/parent?

 

FWIW, I agree with Jenn in that I don't have educational philosophical discussions with my kids, but how those issues impact our lives and their lives, now and in the future, that is just how live. For example, we have never had a single conversation with our kids about expecting them to go to college. We do discuss being responsible for financial obligations and the types of issues that come with various types of employment. I think that deciding to go to college or not is not my role to decide for them. Once they are adults, their lives are theirs to manage. All of our kids have gone to college (even our Aspie has finished close to 4 semesters of college credit) and have career objectives (with the exception of ds) so far. ;) But, seriously, I don't take ownership over their futures to that degree.

 

Even when our kids are older teens, we give them lots of direction, but the rope is left lying around. ;)

 

Oh well, that is probably a completely incoherent ramble. :leaving:

(The iPad just overheated and ate my answer, so the following is more concise than I wanted to be, but I need to start school soon!)

 

What I've bolded are the kinds of questions that made me want to start this thread. The thing is though, I am absolutely not coming at this as an overbearing mom with overscheduled kids who has her own agenda for them and only wants them to buy-in to her plans. I want to transfer the reins, slowly but surely, until they are mature enough for total control. Frankly, they get a great deal of rein here as it is. If anything, I'm more likely to give too much than too little.

 

Also, I do not discuss college with the kids in a "my way or the highway" kind of way, more in a of course we brush our teeth kind of way. It's implied and, yes, I'm happy to examine that now. So even though I've had thoughts of them being plumbers or electricians or mechanics or whatever, somehow that has not come up. College has come up by driving by them or discussions about how DH and I met, and then the conversation goes something like, "Oh, Mommy, your school is so pretty!" And I point out my dorm room and they dream of living there too. Like I said, magical stuff.

 

So this thread is not about how to keep me from being an overbearing shrew, LOL. It's about how to move from magical discussions about living in Mommy's dorm room one day to what are the pros and cons of college at all, and of this college in particular. What are other good paths to consider? What are the expectations for each path? Etc., etc., etc.

[Soror]

fwiw AVA I didn't mean to imply that you were having the discussion as a means to convince them to do it *your way* or such but more that I just thought it was good to question our own motives. I think in parenting those kinds of conversations can easily start to go that way, even if we don't intend it. I think it is good to think things through but if we examine too much what we want as the result then we can miss the point of listening. It was just an out-loud musing and as much for myself than anyone else.

 

As discussions on-line go though we all filter what we read through our thoughts and experiences and discussions often end up in many different places. Right now I'm trying to immerse myself in the day to day. It is going so well but what can I do to make it really great? What kind of life do I want to live because schooling and raising my children is a large part of *my life* as well as theirs. Am I honoring my dreams and nurturing theirs as well?

 

 

eta

I feel really torn on college myself. I've said that it is ok with me if they do or don't go. I don't want to push them into any particular path but I want to make sure that I don't limit them either. There are so many things that were never on my radar as real possibilities and I don't want them to feel that same limitation.

[8filltheheart]

AVA,

 

I wasn't directing my post toward you or even to soror.   I was simply posting general thoughts and our pov and not meaning that it is the correct one, simply the path we have chosen for our family. 

 

Also, expectations and ownership are not the same thing.   There are minimum expectations that our children are expected to achieve (though that has never really been an issue b/c they have all surpassed any minimums I would want to set), but the times when there has been disagreement about what are necessary criteria for them to achieve their personal goals (not ours), we have had to have conversations about their perception and reality.   (thinking here in terms of our oldest whose friends only did 4 1/2 days of school through high school and whose parents constantly told him we expected too much)   But ultimately, the decision was his to take on reality or walk away from it and not meet his own objectives.

 

Of course, I am talking about kids that are way older than yours.   The interaction we have with them when they are older is significantly different than in elementary school.

[Alte Veste Academy]

fwiw AVA I didn't mean to imply that you were having the discussion as a means to convince them to do it *your way* or such but more that I just thought it was good to question our own motives. I think in parenting those kinds of conversations can easily start to go that way, even if we don't intend it. I think it is good to think things through but if we examine too much what we want as the result then we can miss the point of listening. It was just an out-loud musing and as much for myself than anyone else.

 

As discussions on-line go though we all filter what we read through our thoughts and experiences and discussions often end up in many different places. Right now I'm trying to immerse myself in the day to day. It is going so well but what can I do to make it really great? What kind of life do I want to live because schooling and raising my children is a large part of *my life* as well as theirs. Am I honoring my dreams and nurturing theirs as well?

 

eta

I feel really torn on college myself. I've said that it is ok with me if they do or don't go. I don't want to push them into any particular path but I want to make sure that I don't limit them either. There are so many things that were never on my radar as real possibilities and I don't want them to feel that same limitation.

 

I agree with your sentiments and didn't mean to be so defensive or contradictory. Because I do know how easy it is for these discussions to change topic, I wanted to try to steer it back to the OP a bit because I still very much want ideas for the long-term. :)

 

AVA,

 

I wasn't directing my post toward you or even to soror.   I was simply posting general thoughts and our pov and not meaning that it is the correct one, simply the path we have chosen for our family. 

 

Also, expectations and ownership are not the same thing.   There are minimum expectations that our children are expected to achieve (though that has never really been an issue b/c they have all surpassed any minimums I would want to set), but the times when there has been disagreement about what are necessary criteria for them to achieve their personal goals (not ours), we have had to have conversations about their perception and reality.   (thinking here in terms of our oldest whose friends only did 4 1/2 days of school through high school and whose parents constantly told him we expected too much)   But ultimately, the decision was his to take on reality or walk away from it and not meet his own objectives.

 

Of course, I am talking about kids that are way older than yours.   The interaction we have with them when they are older is significantly different than in elementary school.

 

In my post that got eaten, I actually did ask if that was intended for me, soror, or in general. Forgot to retype it in my haste and irritation (with the ipad, not you :D).

 

The point about there being a difference between expectations and ownership is valuable, so thanks. I find myself trying hard to phrase things so that people understand that when I say some things are non-negotiable here, it doesn't mean I am a inflexible dictator. ;) So regardless of the age of the kids, that distinction helps!

[JennW in SoCal]

 

Some specific points that have been on my mind...

 

- developing personal and educational goals, eventually with the kid taking the lead

 

My goal was always to simply nurture a love of learning and to provide the tools they will need to further that love.  Another goal was to not screw up too badly!  My kids didn't take "the lead" til early/middle high school, and then it was a partnership til they took over in college.   

 

- mutually choosing a philosophy; getting buy-in for the philosophy; tweaking the philosophy together

 

My philosophy was my own.  It was there to help me survive rough patches, to stay focused.  They did not need to buy into it, though we would discuss it if they were curious what another homeschool family was or wasn't doing.

 

- evaluating and working with strengths and weaknesses (DS10 and I have been working through Smart But Scattered together, win/win!)

 

Never ending. 

 

- discussing and improving work ethic

 

Never ending

 

- encouraging self-starting

 

Never an issue as they initiated quite a bit on their own.  

 

- working on organization

 

Still tearing my hair out over this one with the college grad!

 

- talking seriously about cause and effect (what we work on now builds skills for later, and how)

 

This kind of talk, in my house at least, leads to kids tuning out and giving me that glazed-eye look.  I had a little song I would sing just to annoy them "Character, we're building character!  C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R, yes sir!!"  The real world was the best teacher for cause and effect.  

 

...and anything else you might like to add. (Please feel free to insert your own brand of crazy here! It will make me feel better! :lol:)

 

 

So this thread is not about how to keep me from being an overbearing shrew, LOL.  As if you need to clarify that! It is so NOT how we perceive you from your posts!! 

 

It's about how to move from magical discussions about living in Mommy's dorm room one day to what are the pros and cons of college at all, and of this college in particular. What are other good paths to consider? What are the expectations for each path? Etc., etc., etc.

 

I would say it is like everything else you discuss with your kids.  It varies and evolves as they grow. You deal with what is in front of you, answer the questions that are asked, and lead by example.  You expose them to lots of people, let them see what an interesting world there is out there.  One of the good things about homeschooling is not having to be stuck in a classroom all day or stuck at home doing homework at night -- our kids get to experience the real world.

[Pen]

AVA, (or anyone one else reading) are you still interested in replies to your 1st post?  Or should I go on to where the discussion has now gone?

 

I'm feeling like the semester has moved on and I'm still working on the first assignment!

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking about threads in which people discuss their kids wanting to be a, b, or c and knowing already that they want to go to college x, y, or z.. Yes, I know these will most likely change, but obviously there has been discussion about it in the home. My kids do talk about what they would like to be but it is kind of still very...magical? Like they have no idea what it means. And, yes, I know my kids are still young. I do not expect them to make a career or college choice at 10, 9, or 7. ;) But, I don't know. I'd like the conversations (with my oldest anyway) to start getting more practical, at least by upper middle school. I mean is it OK that he still says he wants to be a lifeguard/baseball player/scientist/architect/Lego designer (not to mention multi-billionaire :lol:)? I think it is OK...but at the same time, when does it go from magical to practical, and how? While I am not there quite yet, this whole planning for the high school--->college--->career trajectory thing is a few years away, and I do not want it sneaking up on me.

 

...

 

 

 

Well, I think obviously the magical, and the mix of the magical and the more real is OK.  

 

Some magical is totally impossible, truly magical, but some could become real and practical if a foundation were built under the castle in the sky.   Lifeguard is totally doable for a strong swimmer (though probably not a long term career choice for most people--still some people do go into aquatics education or other such programs as long term career choice, it at least is unlikely to be outsourced to another country)--as I'm sure you know--and could make for a good job as a teenager.   Most kids will not manage to be professional ballplayers, but a few will, or could at least play at the college level or for fun.   Scientist, or something in the sciences area, is possible with the right foundations laid--and an area that at least at present seems to be in demand, and so is architect possible with the right foundations laid--but they may not be the same foundations.  And clearly some people have made a fortune being Lego designers -- that is, at the toy company level.  And as well there are even some artists doing sculpture in Lego these days.

 

Maybe the question is when does one just say, "that's nice, honey," as the ideas morph.   And when does one start to say things more like, well, why don't we visit an architect and see what s/he actually does, or a scientist and see what that is really like.  

 

Or take a special class in  such a field, etc.  

 

When is this helpful, and when is it too soon, or too much, or becoming the parent taking it over instead of the child exploring.  I know we have an aunt who I think means well, but every time ds tells her excitedly about something he is involved in, say making his own bows and arrows and learning to shoot them, sort of "takes it over" -- offers him a bought bow and arrow and so on, say , and ends up killing his own creative explorations and joy.

 

 

When and how would one start to discuss that, for example, to be a scientist one will need a lot of math and a lot of science of the right types for the area one wants, and one may need to do a lot more writing for science than a child might expect if one is going to be publishing research or that sort of thing.  For architecture one will need some math and science, though less, but also work in art areas, a good bit of skill with computers and especially CAD, and some sense of working with engineering and legal requirements, among other things.

 

Because the prerequisites do differ and one cannot, actually do everything, given time limitations and so on, I think that starting to talk about that at 9 and 10, or certainly at least by middle school, does make sense.  I think taking the child's ideas into consideration and also if as parent you see some things that the child does not that you think should be doors that stay open in case the child does gravitate that way later do make sense in planning.   I think sharing that with the child does make sense.

 

For a few specialized areas (like many professional sports, for example) the career trajectory may need to be started very early for most, because the height of the career may be in one's 20's.  But for most common careers, I think a solid academic path up to around grade 5 is not going to need to be that different, and any of the paths and curriculum choices that most people on these boards use can work.  But I think that it does start to matter going into middle school to have some idea of the goals, because some of the choices made then do start already to open or close significant numbers of doors.

 

 

[quark]

Because I do know how easy it is for these discussions to change topic, I wanted to try to steer it back to the OP a bit because I still very much want ideas for the long-term. :)

 

AVA, (or anyone one else reading) are you still interested in replies to your 1st post?  Or should I go on to where the discussion has now gone?

 

I'm feeling like the semester has moved on and I'm still working on the first assignment!

 

From AVA's quoted part above, it sounds like she does want to steer it back to the OP, Pen. Sorry to be so presumptuous, AVA...selfish reason here. I'm super interested in this topic. :D

[quark]

This thread is tempting me to read aloud this thread to kiddo. It's the sort of thing he would love to know about. :leaving:

[quark]

Post#66 reported.

[JennW in SoCal]

This thread is tempting me to read aloud this thread to kiddo. It's the sort of thing he would love to know about. :leaving:

 

Yeah but  this thread is much, much cooler!  

[quark]

Yeah but  this thread is much, much cooler!  

 

:thumbup: LOL, it does look super cool. Thank you!

[Alte Veste Academy]

My goal was always to simply nurture a love of learning and to provide the tools they will need to further that love. Another goal was to not screw up too badly! My kids didn't take "the lead" til early/middle high school, and then it was a partnership til they took over in college.

 

My philosophy was my own. It was there to help me survive rough patches, to stay focused. They did not need to buy into it, though we would discuss it if they were curious what another homeschool family was or wasn't doing.

 

This kind of talk, in my house at least, leads to kids tuning out and giving me that glazed-eye look. I had a little song I would sing just to annoy them "Character, we're building character! C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R, yes sir!!" The real world was the best teacher for cause and effect.

 

I would say it is like everything else you discuss with your kids. It varies and evolves as they grow. You deal with what is in front of you, answer the questions that are asked, and lead by example. You expose them to lots of people, let them see what an interesting world there is out there. One of the good things about homeschooling is not having to be stuck in a classroom all day or stuck at home doing homework at night -- our kids get to experience the real world.

Well, first of all, thanks for the kind words. :) And your song is hysterical! I agree about the benefits of exposure to the real world. Now that they are getting older, I think I need to up my game in out of the house opportunities, not extracurriculars so much as just being out and about talking to people from all walks of life more often. "Field Trip Friday" had a nice ring to it! :tongue_smilie: Thanks so much for sharing your experience.

[Alte Veste Academy]

AVA, (or anyone one else reading) are you still interested in replies to your 1st post? Or should I go on to where the discussion has now gone?

 

I'm feeling like the semester has moved on and I'm still working on the first assignment!

Definitely still interested! I am having very busy days these days, so my thread-sitting skills are not what they used to be, LOL, but I am always happy to see new replies.

 

Well, I think obviously the magical, and the mix of the magical and the more real is OK.

 

Some magical is totally impossible, truly magical, but some could become real and practical if a foundation were built under the castle in the sky. Lifeguard is totally doable for a strong swimmer (though probably not a long term career choice for most people--still some people do go into aquatics education or other such programs as long term career choice, it at least is unlikely to be outsourced to another country)--as I'm sure you know--and could make for a good job as a teenager. Most kids will not manage to be professional ballplayers, but a few will, or could at least play at the college level or for fun. Scientist, or something in the sciences area, is possible with the right foundations laid--and an area that at least at present seems to be in demand, and so is architect possible with the right foundations laid--but they may not be the same foundations. And clearly some people have made a fortune being Lego designers -- that is, at the toy company level. And as well there are even some artists doing sculpture in Lego these days.

 

Maybe the question is when does one just say, "that's nice, honey," as the ideas morph. And when does one start to say things more like, well, why don't we visit an architect and see what s/he actually does, or a scientist and see what that is really like.

 

Or take a special class in such a field, etc.

 

When is this helpful, and when is it too soon, or too much, or becoming the parent taking it over instead of the child exploring. I know we have an aunt who I think means well, but every time ds tells her excitedly about something he is involved in, say making his own bows and arrows and learning to shoot them, sort of "takes it over" -- offers him a bought bow and arrow and so on, say , and ends up killing his own creative explorations and joy.

Yes, I have learned to walk a fine line between expressing too little interest (discouraging) and expressing too much interest (ironically, also discouraging, LOL).

 

When and how would one start to discuss that, for example, to be a scientist one will need a lot of math and a lot of science of the right types for the area one wants, and one may need to do a lot more writing for science than a child might expect if one is going to be publishing research or that sort of thing. For architecture one will need some math and science, though less, but also work in art areas, a good bit of skill with computers and especially CAD, and some sense of working with engineering and legal requirements, among other things.

 

Because the prerequisites do differ and one cannot, actually do everything, given time limitations and so on, I think that starting to talk about that at 9 and 10, or certainly at least by middle school, does make sense. I think taking the child's ideas into consideration and also if as parent you see some things that the child does not that you think should be doors that stay open in case the child does gravitate that way later do make sense in planning. I think sharing that with the child does make sense.

 

For a few specialized areas (like many professional sports, for example) the career trajectory may need to be started very early for most, because the height of the career may be in one's 20's. But for most common careers, I think a solid academic path up to around grade 5 is not going to need to be that different, and any of the paths and curriculum choices that most people on these boards use can work. But I think that it does start to matter going into middle school to have some idea of the goals, because some of the choices made then do start already to open or close significant numbers of doors.

I agree that kids can't do or try everything. The possibility of a last minute change of trajectory, however, is what has me setting my minimum standards for upper middle and high school reasonably high (and definitely achievable for my kids, without being overwhelming).

 

He is definitely going to be a lifeguard. It pains him to wait until he is old enough to do the junior lifeguard training. Baseball player? Nah. That one is magical. Scientist? Definite possibility... Lego designer? A one in a billion shot, but it's possible!

[quark]

He is definitely going to be a lifeguard. It pains him to wait until he is old enough to do the junior lifeguard training. Baseball player? Nah. That one is magical. Scientist? Definite possibility... Lego designer? A one in a billion shot, but it's possible!

 

That's a pretty cool goal. An awesome goal. Just for anecdotal motivation, I know a lifeguard in my immediate family who is now in his final year of med school. I didn't see it coming when he said he wanted to be a lifeguard at the age of 11 or maybe 12. He didn't even know how to swim when he was 9. At about 14, he started talking about wanting to study medicine. I'm so proud of this boy for holding on to and working hard for both his lifeguard and med school dreams. I think wanting to be a lifeguard (for him at least) was an early indication of his love of helping others.

[Pen]

Definitely still interested! I am having very busy days these days, so my thread-sitting skills are not what they used to be, LOL, but I am always happy to see new replies.

 

okay.   I'll work my way bit by bit through post number 1!

 

 

Yes, I have learned to walk a fine line between expressing too little interest (discouraging) and expressing too much interest (ironically, also discouraging, LOL).

 

Yes, it is interesting how both directions can be discouraging!  Any input you or others have on how to find the fine line in the middle without going off the edges either way would be appreciated by me!

 

 

I agree that kids can't do or try everything. The possibility of a last minute change of trajectory, however, is what has me setting my minimum standards for upper middle and high school reasonably high (and definitely achievable for my kids, without being overwhelming).  see below

 

He is definitely going to be a lifeguard.   Great!    It pains him to wait until he is old enough to do the junior lifeguard training. Baseball player? Nah. That one is magical. Scientist? Definite possibility... Lego designer? A one in a billion shot, but it's possible!

 

AVA:  I agree that kids can't do or try everything. The possibility of a last minute change of trajectory, however, is what has me setting my minimum standards for upper middle and high school reasonably high (and definitely achievable for my kids, without being overwhelming). 

 

Pen: The discussion might then be on what the aims may be and whether the standards should be having fluency in more than one foreign language, or math through calculus or beyond, or both (and if so, what then might being left out, if art and swimming and other such things are also important).   Such a conversation then, I think and hope, helps to have some of the ownership be taken on by the child, that is, to understand that such and such math now is important because it allows me to maybe be a scientist which I might want to be when I grow up.

Or such and such history is important now because I need to have a general understanding of the world I live in, even though I do not expect it to specifically have anything much to do with my Lego designer career, but maybe if I want to be a Lego designer I had better study whatever language is the language of the Lego corporate headquarters country.   Or whatever fits that way.  

 

Even if changes are then made in the trajectory, it at least does give those things as stepping stones, and maybe more benefits with the reason being understood by the child, and maybe also ideas then to be able to come from the child as the idea of what we are doing now having to do with goals in the future starts to make sense, and where the goals are more than just moving along from one grade to the next, but actually learning for some purpose.   Not, like in that thread about the Atlantic article where the dad was doing his daughter's homework and she advised him to just memorize not rationalize.

[Pen]

Pulling this up to get it on this page even if I still do not address it all in this post :)

I have had this very muddled question taking up space in my head for quite a while. My thoughts are convoluted, so I am going to heap them on the Hive in the hopes of processing them myself. I don't know the extent of what I'm asking, so I'll describe what prompted my thoughts on this.

 

Over the summer, I read and compared the 1999 and 2009 versions of the WTM. I also reread a few other homeschool books and many old threads I've bookmarked from the high school board. I read, took notes, looked up curricula, printed and read samples, etc., etc., etc... Basically I was evaluating, planning, and looking very thoughtfully at the long view. At some point (10th reading of WTM, maybe? :lol:), DS10 asked what I was doing. And I thought are you kidding me? You don't know what I'm doing? But then I realized that of course he doesn't, because I just keep that mess in my head.

 

To be clear, I do talk to my kids about their education. But now I'm thinking I do it in a childish, piddly way instead of a long-term partnership kind of way. I let them look at my (already culled) book lists and program options and let them have say. (And I actually think this is pretty good for now, but that I should be talking about why those are the options I have selected.) Anyway, to some extent, I let them help me plan what they are going to learn that day, week, month, and even school year. But beyond (broken record type) nagging about needing to work hard and some (I now realize) relatively worthless talk about honoring their future selves (could I get any more sappy?), I am not helping them develop a long view. Meanwhile, sometimes I am so focused on the long view that I am distracted away from the importance of the day-to-day grind and, apparently, discussions about what takes up so much of my head space. I can be very obtuse.

 

So anyway, that day when DS asked me what I was doing, I told him. He expressed interest, like I was revealing to him some secret truth I knew and he didn't: what all this homeschooling and his education are all about. I read him the opening and several sections of WTM. And he loved it. DD came in and listened and started asking questions, good questions. We had some lovely discussion and then started the school year...then went back to the same ol', same ol'. Then yesterday in the CM threads, I was dragging out my copy of When Children Love to Learn and the kids looked at my open book, riddled with underlining, stars, and (I kid you not :tongue_smilie:) happy-faced exclamation marks and asked me about that. I read some of that book to them and, once again, they loved it. Just ate it up. So, for the second time, I thought I am just screwing this up, this letting them know what motivates me and what affects them every day without them even knowing it, and how they could possibly take that information and gain from it...resolve maybe? a sense of purpose? a motivation and sense of direction and definition as they move into upper grades?

 

This is very rambly and probably makes no sense...and/or makes me sound crazy. :lol: Basically, I'm wondering how you talk to your kids about the long view (course work leading up to high school then to college, work ethic and habits that build success through the years, etc.). Then also, how do you personally balance and discuss what you know about the long view with the day-to-day work in your homeschool? That is a really poorly phrased question. I am aware of that. :lol: Maybe how do you make sure you keep talking about it. (And a note here, because I know you're out there... Telling me that these conversations just spring up naturally will not be helpful to me in the least, because apparently things are not working that way here or I wouldn't have this question to begin with. ;) )

 

I'm thinking about threads in which people discuss their kids wanting to be a, b, or c and knowing already that they want to go to college x, y, or z.. Yes, I know these will most likely change, but obviously there has been discussion about it in the home. My kids do talk about what they would like to be but it is kind of still very...magical? Like they have no idea what it means. And, yes, I know my kids are still young. I do not expect them to make a career or college choice at 10, 9, or 7. ;) But, I don't know. I'd like the conversations (with my oldest anyway) to start getting more practical, at least by upper middle school. I mean is it OK that he still says he wants to be a lifeguard/baseball player/scientist/architect/Lego designer (not to mention multi-billionaire :lol:)? I think it is OK...but at the same time, when does it go from magical to practical, and how? While I am not there quite yet, this whole planning for the high school--->college--->career trajectory thing is a few years away, and I do not want it sneaking up on me.

 

Before you put me through the wringer for too high expectations, I would like to say that I am coming at this as a pretty relaxed homeschooler who probably does not push my kids enough. Many times I get the feeling that they would benefit from more pushing, but it's not my nature, which is really weird because I pushed myself hard in school. My parents did not push at all though, so maybe I'm just following that model? Anyway, the point is that I am not a pusher, to the point where I wonder if it's a problem. Maybe my self-pushing in school came from being surrounded by competition (which my kids have little of in their lives). Maybe they actually need much more from me in this department. When kids are in school, they see those ahead of them and get a sense of a trajectory; they know what's coming. That's it, maybe! I feel like my kids have a very hazy view of what's coming? And of their options...and how their choices and work ethic affect their options.

 

Blah, blah, blah, much of this is a subject for another day, but my point is that advice to tell me to relax and don't push isn't what I want either, because I already don't push. I'm just looking to hear how you talk to your kids about their education, how you discuss and work toward long-term goals. And if you can relate to me, I'd love to hear that too. Or if you have older kids now but you could have related to me when yours were at my kids' ages. :D

 

Some specific points that have been on my mind...

 

- developing personal and educational goals, eventually with the kid taking the lead

 

- mutually choosing a philosophy; getting buy-in for the philosophy; tweaking the philosophy together

 

- evaluating and working with strengths and weaknesses (DS10 and I have been working through Smart But Scattered together, win/win!)

 

- discussing and improving work ethic

 

- encouraging self-starting

 

- working on organization

 

- talking seriously about cause and effect (what we work on now builds skills for later, and how)

 

...and anything else you might like to add. (Please feel free to insert your own brand of crazy here! It will make me feel better! :lol:)

 

 

And if you can relate to me, I'd love to hear that too. 

 

This, yes,  for sure!  

 

 

 

Some specific points that have been on my mind...

 

- developing personal and educational goals, eventually with the kid taking the lead

 

One idea I got from this--not something we've actually done yet, but I think I'll give it a try--is to start a notebook with ds about his ideas for the future, not just education and career, but other things too.   And also maybe something to note down things he has been interested in, even if they seem silly or magical, and to think about why.  EG both lifeguard and baseball have in common being very physical, maybe outdoors, maybe having people admire you.   

 

 

[Pen]

I find this very interesting. DS10 does not talk to his friends about school at all and his friends don't seem to talk about school either. I asked him today after reading your post, and he looked at me like I was an alien. I think they mostly just talk about Legos, Wimpy Kid, Legos, swimming, Legos... So not only does he not have school to compare his work/progress with, he has zero frame of reference. Because he is mostly working ahead, I would have said before that it's a good thing (because then he won't give me guff or feel like a smarty-pants :lol:), but I see now that there is a drawback here too, a significant one. We have had many conversations about not cutting off options by working hard in every area. We do make sure to give lots of time to pet areas though.

 

I'll have to check out Stand and Deliver. Might be good to start looking at reality a little harder.

 

... Marva Collins next!

 

 

talking about school:   interesting that it is so different!   I wonder why that is?  Maybe in part because we are out in a rural area with a small number of kids of varying ages doing different things, and one of the commonalities is some form of school, as well as any project that they are working on together.   I'm not sure when at fencing that  school gets discussed which would maybe be like while at swimming for yours.   Maybe because the discussion of school, different types, philosophies etc, has already been raised here?  

 

On the flip of our Stand and Deliver was Lean on Me, which was more questionable for the age of your kids, but was also interesting to discuss--including why did the principal not want the kids to spend time on practicing for a Lincoln Center classical singing performance and wanted them to do academics instead?

 

There is a film based on Marva Collings too, which also makes excellent discussion material and is suited to youngers, IMO.

[quark]

One idea I got from this--not something we've actually done yet, but I think I'll give it a try--is to start a notebook with ds about his ideas for the future, not just education and career, but other things too.   And also maybe something to note down things he has been interested in, even if they seem silly or magical, and to think about why.  EG both lifeguard and baseball have in common being very physical, maybe outdoors, maybe having people admire you.   

 

Mostly lurking but wanted to say I think this is a fab idea.

[Alte Veste Academy]

One idea I got from this--not something we've actually done yet, but I think I'll give it a try--is to start a notebook with ds about his ideas for the future, not just education and career, but other things too.   And also maybe something to note down things he has been interested in, even if they seem silly or magical, and to think about why.  EG both lifeguard and baseball have in common being very physical, maybe outdoors, maybe having people admire you.

What an interesting point! He is a big time "words of affirmation" seeking kid. I imagine that being admired is very appealing to him. Time will tell where he ends up. He has a good heart.

 

talking about school:   interesting that it is so different!   I wonder why that is?  Maybe in part because we are out in a rural area with a small number of kids of varying ages doing different things, and one of the commonalities is some form of school, as well as any project that they are working on together.   I'm not sure when at fencing that  school gets discussed which would maybe be like while at swimming for yours.   Maybe because the discussion of school, different types, philosophies etc, has already been raised here?  

 

On the flip of our Stand and Deliver was Lean on Me, which was more questionable for the age of your kids, but was also interesting to discuss--including why did the principal not want the kids to spend time on practicing for a Lincoln Center classical singing performance and wanted them to do academics instead?

 

There is a film based on Marva Collings too, which also makes excellent discussion material and is suited to youngers, IMO.

I will look at those, thanks! I will have to ask him more about what he talks to his friends about at swimming. I know when friends are here, or when they spend time at the park, they are just all about their play. I will say, however, that DS10 takes after his father and is a man of few words. :tongue_smilie: (Except at home, with me, alone... Then he is a regular chatterbox. LOL)

[Pen]

What an interesting point! He is a big time "words of affirmation" seeking kid. I imagine that being admired is very appealing to him. Time will tell where he ends up. He has a good heart.

 

 

I will look at those, thanks! I will have to ask him more about what he talks to his friends about at swimming. I know when friends are here, or when they spend time at the park, they are just all about their play. I will say, however, that DS10 takes after his father and is a man of few words. :tongue_smilie: (Except at home, with me, alone... Then he is a regular chatterbox. LOL)

 

The friends this has gotten talked about with are neighborhood friends (including a few who have moved away, alas), seen on many an afternoon or weekend, and where the changes from one thing to another are probably noted (one child starting K at local ps, another leaving local ps to do a charter, another leaving homeschool for charter, another wanting to hs, another starting high school and the parent wondering about hs and so on.   Awareness of what is going on in school also includes being aware of whether someone will be arriving on the school bus at a certain time, and if so whether play is likely or homework will take till bedtime, or is someone is at the library for online charter school time, or busy at home with homeschool and not to be bothered until a certain time, or maybe free to ride bikes during lunchtime, etc.

 

 

Another movie that has been interesting of late is Constantine's Sword-- I came to it via other threads on these forums, but for ds and with regard to this thread, the main "character" so to speak, the narrator, is telling about how he went from boyhood pegged for the priesthood (or if not that then perhaps the airforce like his father before him), into seminary and being a priest, then left that and became a writer (and also husband and father)...for the idea of realizing that people may make changes in what they do in life and how thoughts about the world and so on can change it was interesting.   It is something you would need to decide about appropriateness for any particular child though and I think at 11 my ds is only just barely old enough to get anything out of it (and not probably so much about the actual topics that the film is about).   My guess would be that 9 and 10 are too young.

 

Another book quite suited to the age is The Trumpet of the Swan (EB White) -- where the main character human is trying to figure out what he will be when he grows up, and the main character swan does a number of different things, music related, to earn a living.  It as well brings up what is a suitable good life for a person or a swan.  And the Little House books have a great deal about finding one's way through life, education and so on, not just the Laura and Almanzo ones but also the Rose years books do.