Son with LD wanted to go to school, IEP questions

[dancingmama]

Someone on the afterschooling boards recommended I post this here.  

 

We have been homeschooling for years however this year, my 5th grade son with special needs wanted to try school.  We had just moved into what appears to be a great school district.  They did testing over the summer and met with us and were willing to use the neuropsych report and the reports of our private therapists that we had been contracting with as their guidance for what our son needed.  The IEP meeting is scheduled for Sep. 4, just 2 weeks into the school year.  My fear is that he's doing really well right now.  Thankfully they are using Math in Focus.  We had been using Primary Mathematics and this system works great for him.  However, everything we are doing is review right now and he's flying through it for the most part.  In spelling, again, the words he's using this week are "easy" words (simple homophones) and he should do fine on the test.  My concern is that right now he's succeeding because everything is "easy" or review and as it gets harder, he's going to get further and further behind.  He has processing issues and writing issues.  Anyone have advice on how to best advocate for the accommodations he is going to need as the year gets more and more intense?  I really don't want him to fail before we help.  He is loving school right now and, after the year we had last year (with a lot of butting heads and strong wills), I really want him to get back into the love of learning that I just wasn't able to give him last year.  

 

Thanks for the help!

[geodob]

Review seems to be the key point.  Where you could have it written into the IEP.   That the teachers emails you with what is being worked on.

So that you can review this with him.

Where the question is whether to review it before or after it is covered in class?

Or perhaps both?

Where it would be better to recieve it ahead of the lessons, rather than after.

[CaitlinC]

I agree with Geodob.  That's one of the elements in our list of recommended accommodations; my DS has a similar profile to yours I think.

 

My DS is in public school, grade 5.  He also has handwriting issues, due to attention and below average grapho-motor abilities.

When he started at the school last year, his teacher couldn't understand why he was even on an IEP.  The IEP was reduced to one sentence!  However,  by the end of the year it was clear, and proper accommodations were made.  We were so lucky in that the school just did it without my needing to intervene.  There is a lot to be said for good faith!

 

This was also in strong contrast to the previous school, where the IEP was five pages long, but I virtually had to write a note before every test to ensure that his needs were met. (ok I'm exaggerating...a bit)

 

You might think from what this that I'm telling you not to worry about the IEP meeting, but no, I think that the IEP is very important!  We have a more complete neuropsychological evaluation going into grade 5 than we did previously, and we intend to have those accommodations written into the IEP.  We know that by the end of the year, he will need them.  This way, everyone will be on the same page.  I think this is particularly important as our children get older and have to start to advocate for themselves.

 

By the way, we have a long list of accommodations that include extra time on tests, advance copies of materials for parents, more time for tests and assignments, reduce work to its essence (ie. no 3 pages of math drills thank you very much!) etc.  

 

[dancingmama]

Thank you.  I will definitely ask for things ahead of time.  Hadn't thought of that.  For example, I'd love to have his spelling lists weeks in advance so we can start working on them.  Does anyone know if a school would use an Orton-Gillingham method for spelling for a fifth grader?  He does awesome with All About Spelling and I hate to see the progress we've seen disappear because they now do different styles.  For example, next week's words are all /oo/ sounds but spelled in 4 different ways (u,ue, ui, ieu).  With his lack of working memory and short term memory, the chances of him learning all of these are pretty small, especially in a week.  I would have spent a week with each spelling variation alone with him.  And I'll definitely look at "reducing work to its essence".  The teacher was having the kids rewrite the math problems then showing the conversion when rounding and he could have just done the rounding in his head and given her the answer.  Ugh.  Considering I have no idea how she even knows what the number he's writing in, I find this useless (except for handwriting practice but I don't have hours in the day anymore to make him rewrite everything).  

 

I'm hoping to have a good experience in the school.  They seemed really willing to help him last week.  Wish us well next week at the IEP and if anyone else has any other advice for me, I'm all ears. 

[FairProspects]

If he is slower to process or write, I would have that he is "not to lose recess time for unfinished work". That is written into ds's 504 plan. We also have written in that he should "have fewer math problems and less writing or a scribe". Those might be considerations for you too.

[herekittykitty]

Some accommodations I have heard of that might be helpful would be:

 

Extra time on tests

Reduced spelling lists

Receive spelling lists ahead of time

Not being penalized for spelling in writing assignments except for spelling tests

Time limited homework - meaning he is to spend a certain amount of agreed upon time per night on homework and then he stops

Extra keyboarding instruction at school

Not having to show work in writing for math

Use of a scribe for anything he needs

Getting a copy of any notes or a notetaking scribe

Use of Dragon Dictation

Use of Alphasmart word processor with Cowriter word prediciton program

Ability to type instead of handwrite spelling tests and math worksheets (Type on PDF Ipad app does this)

 

Just a few ideas...  I've been to a number of IEP meetings, and the best advice I can give you is to be pleasant, but very firm.  If you want something, don't give it up in the name of trying to please.  Go in with a list of what you want and a brief reason, and don't back down.  If what you are asking for isn't needed right now (because it's mostly review), request that they be written into the IEP for when they may be needed.  Present that as a good use of time - ie it will prevent the IEP team from having to meet again very soon.  Do remember though that you can request another IEP meeting to revise at any time!

 

I have personally not heard of any public school around here who uses O-G methods for reading or spelling - heck, most of them have never even heard of it.  If you can show that AAS worked for him at home, you could discuss it with them - but I really can't imagine that any kind of O-G instruction is available through the school.  If you have a private tutor you have used, or know of one, I have heard of some people who have incorporated this kind of outside instruction into their child's day.  

 

Good luck.

 

[dancingmama]

Thank you all so much. This is exactly what I needed! I do hope this go well. :)

[OneStepAtATime]

My children started out in a brick and mortar school and the spelling system they used sounds very much like the one your son is being exposed to and it is exactly NOT what a dyslexic needs.  My kids remained diagnosed until my daughter was in 5th grade so no accomodations and no help.  We would study those awful spelling lists 7 days a week, and even with all that effort there were times she might get single digits on her tests.  And then she wouldn't remember ANY of the sequencing the next week.  Of course, she had never had any OG tutoring at the time. It was horrible, and caused our daughter to end up clinically depressed.

 

Once we had the diagnosis, the teacher cut the spelling list in half, some teachers allowed dictation, and the science teacher allowed my daughter to construct some things in clay and explain the parts verbally instead of writing on lots of worksheets.  All of these things were a great help, but even with Administration on our side, not all teachers were willing to follow recommendations and found ways around my daughter's accommodations.  I agree with other posters, be very polite, recognize that these teachers do NOT have an easy job, but be clear and firm in what is needed.  You might read The Mislabeled Child and The Dyslexic Advantage, by Brock and Fernette Eide, if you haven't done so already.  They have a lot of great information and recommendations, all based on current scientific research.  It would help you be prepared for that meeting and you might even convince some of his teachers to read one or the other, too.  I really feel that both books should be required reading for all teachers and administrators.

[OneStepAtATime]

 I meant my kids were UNdiagnosed while in school in my previous response...  

 

We are now homeschooling, with much success, but have given the kids the option to go back to a brick and mortar school when they choose to.  I have kept a running list of accommodations I would ask for, were we to pursue that avenue again and I would definitely stay pro-active in watching what the teachers and administrators SAY they will do and what they actually do.  I didn't do that the first time around, and like I said in my previous response, some teachers were working to get around the accommodations.  Some teachers do NOT believe that there is such a thing as dyslexia and feel that difficulties are caused by kids with poor attitudes and overprotective parents.

 

 One thing I clued in to a little late was that if my child was struggling in a particular class it really helped (in most instances) to have a one on one meeting with a specific teacher and ask them to brain storm with me on ways that specific accommodations might be accomplished in specific situations within their classroom.  My daughter's science teacher was the one that suggested that my daughter construct some of what they were doing with Playdough, then do a verbal presentation of what she had learned instead of having to write out tons of worksheets.  It was a great accommodation but one that I had not thought of and it certainly wasn't listed in her official accommodations.

 

With my son, his teacher was totally clueless as to how to work accommodations into her classroom and it was an uphill battle every step of the way, but after several one on one meetings where I provided her with lots of support and understanding, she was able to think things through from a more open perspective and we were able to brain storm several accommodations that worked specifically for her teaching style and the structure of her classroom.  My son is dysgraphic, as well as dyslexic, and could not effectively write on college ruled paper (which she was using in a 2nd grade classroom!!).  After providing her with fairly short, but clear information on dysgraphia, she was more sympathetic to his issues and allowed him to switch to specialized, lined paper that had more space to write on.  I provided the paper just to make the process smoother. 

 

Good luck!

[dancingmama]

Thank you very much.  That is all very helpful.  Especially the dysgraphia.  He hasn't been diagnosed with it but he has all the symptoms.  Would the school be able to test for that?  I received a "progress report" today and he's doing well.  I know there are accommodations already in place as he has been talking about Dragon Dictation and how much fun it is all week.  The boy can't put three cohesive sentences together so I'm not sure what they are requiring of him at this time.  

 

Well, today is his first test in the school setting so please think of him today. Crossing my fingers that he remembers that he should just do his best and forget about "how much time" he has.  He could have three days to do the test and he'd panic.  *sigh*

[OneStepAtATime]

Actually, my son has never been officially diagnosed by a professional for dysgraphia. I haven't found anyone in this area that is trained to do so.  In fact, in our first assessment, the assessor said his handwriting was fine for a boy his age.  The school had no way to really test for dysgraphia, either.  They just looked for really bad handwriting and assigned labels.  My son had really, really slow handwriting, but it was very legible all the way through 1st grade.  However, when he went into 2nd grade and independent handwriting expectations increased 10 fold, he could not keep up with the workload.  We then found out through extensive research and a few on-line consultations, that what he has is stealth dysgraphia, which can take several forms.

 

 In my son's instance, because he was explicitly and systematically taught in 4k, kinder and 1st, he can write on large line tablet paper, with the dotted guide line in the middle.  However, he is not capable of judging how to make a letter smaller or space smaller letters correctly, or how to write on blank paper.  He would stare and stare at the board, trying to figure out how to take what he saw and put it on the college ruled paper he had been given.  Since the teacher knew he was very intelligent and had had no real issues with handwriting in 1st grade, she assumed he just didn't want to do the work and really treated him pretty badly for it.  He kept getting in trouble for having a bad attitude, even though he had never had issues in school before.  He could not articulate what the problem was and frequently came home in tears with most of his work incomplete.  

 

Finally, I started asking specific questions about his issues with copying from the board, had him try to copy at home using the same paper they were using at school, and realized there was an issue.  After all the research, etc. I went back to the school and explained what I believed was going on.  They were understanding and agreed to implement accommodations, but the teacher herself was lost as to how to make accommodations work in her classroom.  That was where a lot of gentle one on one meetings with her and some small clearly written info regarding dysgraphia really helped her to get on board with implementing accommodations...

 

I really, really hope his first test went well today.  I am keeping him in my thoughts.  Good luck!  Let us know how it went.

[herekittykitty]

In my district and state, school based testing doesn't really diagnose anything.  Their testing is essentially academic achievement testing - meaning it will show how well he's performing in academic subjects.  If a child's performance is discrepant enough from their peers, that child can qualify for special education.  My son's dysgraphia wasn't called anything, but his IEP included "goals of written expression" because that was an area of discrepancy.  As a result, he got OT at school for handwriting, but it was only 20minutes/week.  I took him for a private eval after the school decided those goals had been reached, and there were still tons of needs.  I have met some people from other states who school-based OT seemed to be much deeper - hopefully you're in one of those places.

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree wholeheartedly with herekittykitty.  I have so many friends and relatives that got only very surface assessments from their schools.  They simply are not trained for useful, overall, detailed evaluations.  The one my son had through the school took about 40 minutes and told us almost nothing truly useful. When we finally bit the bullet and had a detailed independent eval, for both kids it was like night and day.  The evaluation for each child lasted all day (although the lady was so good my kids didn't mind at all and came away feeling pretty good about themselves) and I came back on a different day after each evaluation and after she had compiled all the data so she could spend 3 hours explaining it all to me.  There was so much information about not only the weaknesses but also hidden strengths we didn't even know existed.

 

For instance, we found out that my daughter has tremendous strengths in 3D spatial relations, but terrible comprehension in 2D.  Constructing something in 3D really helps her understand, but a 2D picture or manipulation of 2D objects helps her not at all.  My son has tremendous strengths when presented with items in color coupled with an auditory component.  If something is presented in black and white, his comprehension drops below grade level.  Take away the auditory component, too, and comprehension is almost non-existent.  Without the independent evaluation we would not have known any of that, along with a host of other things.

[dancingmama]

I'm very glad we did an independent neuropsych then last year.  It was nice to have all our thoughts and observations written down and recommendations made.  So very glad this school is implementation many of the recommendations.  I know a lot of our son's handwriting issues are caused by his convergence issues with his vision.  That is one area that we really need to talk about because I would hope they would help with that however, I also don't want him pulled during important subjects in school.  It's going to be a balancing act as therapies haven't started yet (they start after Labor Day) but he seems to be really doing well with the current structure.  Decisions, decisions.  

 

He came home saying he thinks he did well on his test.  He also said he was one of the first kids done.  Considering the kid takes (what seems like) a week to write his name, I'm a little nervous.  I know he knows the stuff however I also know his attention to detail is practically nil.  (He misses things like the + or -symbol).  Spelling test today.  When he left this morning he had spelled all but 2 of his words correctly.  Thankfully, he already knew how to spell half the words going in (from AAS! Yay!) so we only needed to learn 10 words.  All homophones, of course.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

I am so glad that things are going well!  I will keep my fingers crossed that his successes continue.  

 

I would only add a couple of things.  One is a word of caution.  Even though my son's teacher finally was able to provide accommodations in her classroom, she really didn't understand his issues.  She was very negative about her approach, especially at the beginning of the year.  She, without malicious intent, turned his 2nd grade experience into something so toxic, we were forced to pull him from school mid-year.  Even though we knew that our son who had once absolutely adored school and was much loved by peers and teachers alike was becoming withdrawn, defensive, defiant and began having nightmares, we kept thinking things would work out, especially after we finally had an evaluation and the school was trying to help.  

 

We waited too long and he still suffers tremendous emotional scars.  I was not proactive at the beginning when he told me he was having difficulty with copying and reading.  His relationship with his teacher took a steady decline and by the time we pulled him, the sound of a pencil on paper would cause what amounted to post traumatic shock from all the times she yelled at him, belittled him and made him feel like a "bad" kid.  He would shake all over and cry the minute a pencil hit paper.  He STILL, one year later, is terrified of writing with pencil, only wanting to use marker or write on a dry erase board.  If he is forced to use pencil, his hand shakes so badly that his handwriting is completely illegible.

 

You are in a better position than we were since you already know that your child has issues, and so does the school.  Hopefully, that will make all the difference.  I just wanted to mention this to encourage you to be proactive.  Don't ignore warning bells.  Clinical depression and suicide are on the rise in dyslexic children because of all the schools being forced to teach to standardized testing, focusing on all a dyslexic's weaknesses and none of their strengths.

 

Finally, don't let your son define his self-worth by academic performance.  Academic performance doesn't mean anything if you cannot apply it to a marketable skill and useful life=skills, something that teachers, students and parents frequently forget.  Who cares if you got an A in Algebra in 9th grade if you cannot balance a checkbook and you cannot get a secure job?  Find something that really peaks his interest and that he has real strengths in, then provide him with every opportunity you can to help him master that skill or skills.  My husband is dyslexic, dysgraphic and probably dyscalculic, and struggled quite a bit in school but he is also a brilliant engineer and computer specialist, and a great airplane pilot.  His parents encouraged his interest in computers LONG before most kids had any access to a computer (pawn shops were great for this) plus his interest in aviation (he started with the Civil Air Patrol quite young) and in high school he was very lucky that they had a Broadcast Television program.  That program and his interest in computers and involvement in the Civil Air Patrol kept him feeling good about his abilities, even when he struggled in certain academic areas and it gave him great job and life-skills.   He was employed early on, he wasn't even out of high school yet, and though he STARTED going to college while he was working, he never finished college because his workload and continual promotions kept him too busy.  He is now Vice President of Engineering for a major company, having never completed his college degree, but also having never been unemployed and never laid off.  He is now highly respected in the industry and I doubt most people who work with him would have any clue he had difficulties in school.  A college degree now would be pointless because he already knows far more than a college professor in Broadcast TV, and had much of that knowledge long before he was in college..  

[sassenach]

Remember, you can always call another IEP if you find that he needs more or different accommodations. Also, if you disagree with anything that ends up on the IEP, you can write than in the notes section. Parents have a fair amount of rights when it comes to IEPs. Know them and take advantage if them.

[OneStepAtATime]

I "mispoke" earlier, by the way.  What I meant to say was don't let your son, or you. or his teachers, define him ONLY by his academic achievements or failures during his school years.  Success in academics is a great feeling and I don't mean to say it isn't important.  It just shouldn't be the only focus in his life.  There is so much more out there that, in the long run, is far, far more important than how you did or didn't do on a specific test or subject in a specific grade level.  We, as parents, and our kids' teachers, lost focus, and only cared about their academic successes and failures for quite a while, as if test scores are the only thing in the world that will determine if you are a happy person and a productive member of society once you leave school.  They aren't.  Not even close.  But if that is your only real definition of who you are, and you don't do well on something, your feeling of failure can carry you well into adulthood and negatively effect so many things in your life and give you nothing to stand on in the end..

[dancingmama]

Unfortunately, we are struggling to find anything my poor boy is good at. He struggles with so much. But we do have him active In a variety of things, including Boy Scouts and dance. He has so many issues that it often breaks my heart that everything is a struggle for him. I keep hoping something will click for him but nothing yet even though we have been active in engaging in multiple activities.

 

Anyway, he brought home the math test with a 76%. His errors were from going too fast. Simple things. Ugh. They are moving into subtraction and he hates subtraction with a passion. :(

[OneStepAtATime]

I sympathize so much!  I know this is hard.  I'm so sorry.  We have been working to find things our own kids can feel successful at.  It has not been an easy road.  My husband was extremely fortunate in many ways in his own experience with extracurricular activities.  Our kids have struggled mightily to find things they feel successful doing.  Not being able to read, having extreme difficulty with math and coordination make life challenging, especially since they are both very bright and know EXACTLY where they should be and where they are not.  Homeschooling helped, but didn't solve everything.

 

One thing that helped for my son was a LOT of additional instruction in things that hold his interest.  For instance, he started karate a little less than a year ago because a friend of his was in the class, but my son's coordination is poor.  At first it looked like a terrible match.  We talked to his instructor and asked if they would give him private lessons every Friday to reinforce what he was learning in group lessons.  One of the instructors would work with him over and over, in a very encouraging manner, every week, to improve his right left coordination and help the basic movements become automatic.  Progress was slow at first, but then we could all see improvement.  He also began practicing about 20 minutes a day on what they were teaching him, every single day, but he would only practice what had been reviewed in the private lesson to make certain he was practicing the correct moves, since he would frequently mis-remember a move the first time it was taught. On the last private lesson before one of his belt tests, he had improved so much from where he had been that his instructor and his instructor's wife had tears in their eyes.   He has now advanced 3 belts since his first class and has been promoted to a higher class.  Will he end up as a 9th degree black belt running his own dojo?  No, probably not....but the confidence he now feels and the improvement in motor control have gone a long way to helping him in other areas.

 

He also loves History and wanted to learn Latin.  Trying to learn another language (especially one that isn't spoken anymore) when you still struggle with the structure and vocabulary of your own is quite challenging.  We are taking it in small, systematic pieces, with a lot of auditory and visual stimulation through DVDs and games.  It is slow going, but I don't assign any grades.  As he masters one piece of the puzzle, we move on to the next while continually reviewing the previous ones.  I don't think his Latin has improved tremendously much in the past several months, although there has been SOME progress.  However, since English is actually 50% based on Latin, this is helping him with his English language lessons, which is great..  I try to make the Latin lessons as fun as possible so he remains enthusiastic.

 

My daughter has good eye-hand coordination but terrible sequencing issues.  What has helped her is the music program Simply Music plus systematic, small step, supportive art instruction without a lot of rigid rules to further those areas of interest.  She also wants to learn glass blowing and woodworking.  I am still trying to find an instructor for those two areas, since I don't know much about either, but if I can find someone, I will do the same thing I did with karate for her brother, try to get lots of one on one, supportive instruction until the basics are mastered to give her the scaffolding she needs to feel successful.  In the meantime, I keep art supplies in large quantities all over so she can grab them on a whim, plus I have instructional DVD's anytime she wants to pop one in for additional instruction.  

 

I know this is a challenging road, but you are not alone.  Reach out to as many sources as necessary to help you and help him.  And because your son has family that cares and is involved, he will find a successful path.  It just may not be readily apparent today or next month or even for several years.  My family and I wish you all the best.

[dancingmama]

Thank you all for your help. IEP went wee, I think. He will be pulled completely out for writing and they will work on individual goals for him. The sped teacher took down the info I gave about AAS and mentioned a program she was familiar with that sounded similar, Wilson. In math and reading he will get extra instructional time. And they will continue to do the accommodations that they have been doing, big font, extra time, etc. They also stressed that if anything is not working, a meeting can be called at any time. He will also get speech/language, social skills service (they are using the Winner series which we had been doing at home) as well as OT and he has the vision therapist on consult. We shall see how it goes. Thanks again for all the help.

[Heathermomster]

DS used a Wilson tutor for 5 years. Wilson is very good with the right tutor.

 

 

IRT math... Check out the following link:

http://customgraph.com/SG/piart.php?art=654

 

Maybe print up the half inch graph paper and have your son practice his math using it. Send it to school with him if it works out.

[OneStepAtATime]

So glad they are really working with you and with him!  Awesome!  Good luck to both of you.