Using computers

[wingedradical]

I understand that many classical ed folks want to be sure their children can print and do cursive and I understand that when young, if you want a student to learn to do both well, they need practice. But why, oh, why, do so many programs stress writing things out by hand in high school? The final draft of an essay that you turn in is supposed to be handwritten in cursive? No college prof I know will accept a handwritten essay or research paper.

 

And taking notes? Every student I know takes some kind of computer to class and there are aps for both outline and Cornell style notes (other types, too, I'm sure although I prefer those two, depending upon the situation). In fact, Cornell notes are easier with a computer.

 

I don't think it is doing (older) students a service to insist upon hand writing when they need to be very familiar with computer use for such things in college. 

 

I remember when we first got Bibles on our old desk top computer. Dh, immediately started doing his Bible reading on the computer. I said, "No way! I'll never go to the computer for Bible reading!" Well, my leather bound Bible lies gathering dust on the shelf; I never use it. I have to wonder if some of these authors insist upon handwriting not because it is better but because they haven't adjusted to the computer yet.

 

Just a rant.

 

 

[Mom22ns]

Interesting rant. I don't allow my kids to turn in anything handwritten (very little anyway). I even change some of the writing assignments to PowerPoint presentations. I would ignore outdated instructions in your curriculum. 

This article: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-school/laptops-in-class-lowers-students-grades-canadian-study/article13759430/ has been making the rounds about how taking notes on a computer leads to poorer test results.

[regentrude]

I teach at a university, and have taught 3,000 students over the last ten years. Among all of these, I have had two students take class notes in their computer. Everybody else is taking notes by hand. Many science disciplines do not lend themselves to typing notes, because students must quickly copy figures, diagrams, equations. Tablets may change that, but only through handwriting by stylus - so we will see even more need for good handwriting, especially when you want the computer to translate your handwriting into print.

I see my students have handwritten notebooks for their other subjects as well, so it is not just my class.

 

I do not require my kids to hand write their compositions, of course they type them, because it makes revisions so much easier.

But I think the way the brain processes the information when you form the letters by hand is different from the way it processes when you hit keys on a keyboard. Writing content that has to be memorized out by hand seems to help many students more than typing the same stuff.

 

So, no, I do not think handwriting is obsolete. I write by hand every day in my job.

 

ETA: I see how distracted students are by their phones. I shudder to think how much time they would spend doing unrelated stuff if they all had their laptops open.

[mamajag]

But I think the way the brain processes the information when you form the letters by hand is different from the way it processes when you hit keys on a keyboard. Writing content that has to be memorized out by hand seems to help many students more than typing the same stuff.

 

So, no, I do not think handwriting is obsolete. I write by hand every day in my job.

 

ETA: I see how distracted students are by their phones. I shudder to think how much time they would spend doing unrelated stuff if they all had their laptops open.

I used to write out important stuff, but the more I have typed notes the better I've gotten at retaining the information without writing it out. I think it is just a different skills. I brought my behemoth of a laptop with me to college a few years ago and teachers were skeptical at first but then a couple asked me for my notes at the end of the semester. I proved I was there to learn and as a former medical transcriptionist I think through my fingers. Now small laptops and iPads are the norm. When I return to school I'll be completely digital. Yes, I'll have a stylus for drawing figures.

[mamajag]

I could have written a similar post. I used to think I'd never get used to typing things instead of writing them out. I now prefer to type. I think it really is what people are used to.

 

I like the stylus idea for figures. Is that something you use on the iPad? (Sorry for my ignorance, I don't have an iPad).

Yes, that would be for my iPad. Before I carried a small 1" binder to class and just drew the figures in pencil and scanned them in later. You might be able to do so on a touchscreen PC, but I'm a Mac person.

[regentrude]

I could have written a similar post.  I used to think I'd never get used to typing things instead of writing them out.  I now prefer to type.  I think it really is what people are used to. 

 

I like the stylus idea for figures.  Is that something you use on the iPad?  (Sorry for my ignorance, I don't have an iPad).

 

It really depends on what it is. There are currently no computer programs with which one can type complex formulas anywhere near as fast as writing  them by hand ;-)

 

You can use a stylus on any tablet; we have a Samsung. Very neat, very convenient, I love it for writing with the stylus, but I dislike the feel of the touchscreen and make too many typing mistakes. Carrying an external keyboard is not always feasible. So, it is handwriting again for me... only on a more sophisticated device.

[wingedradical]

Totally agree that math and sciences require handwriting.

 

I am surprised that so few of regentrude's students use computers for notes. The college my son's best friend went to required them to buy a computer and use them for notes, among other things, and that was in the days of notebook computers. My son, now 29, always used computer for his notes as did most of the people he went to school with. He was a philosophy/religious studies major. Perhaps it depends upon the region and the major?

 

I only scanned the article shared, but it seems to speak more to multi-tasking than anything. I will reread.

[wingedradical]

Totally agree that math and sciences require handwriting.

 

I am surprised that so few of regentrude's students use computers for notes. The college my son's best friend went to required them to buy a computer and use them for notes, among other things, and that was in the days of notebook computers. My son, now 29, always used computer for his notes as did most of the people he went to school with. He was a philosophy/religious studies major. Perhaps it depends upon the region and the major?

 

I only scanned the article shared, but it seems to speak more to multi-tasking than anything. I will reread.

[wingedradical]

Totally agree that math and sciences require handwriting.

 

I am surprised that so few of regentrude's students use computers for notes. The college my son's best friend went to required them to buy a computer and use them for notes, among other things, and that was in the days of notebook computers. My son, now 29, always used computer for his notes as did most of the people he went to school with. He was a philosophy/religious studies major. Perhaps it depends upon the region and the major?

 

I only scanned the article shared, but it seems to speak more to multi-tasking than anything. I will reread.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

 The college my son's best friend went to required them to buy a computer and use them for notes,

 

What college was this?

 

I've heard of many colleges requiring students to buy a particular laptop, but have never heard of any requiring students to take notes in class on it instead of paper.  

[Alessandra]

 

And taking notes? Every student I know takes some kind of computer to class and there are aps for both outline and Cornell style notes (other types, too, I'm sure although I prefer those two, depending upon the situation). In fact, Cornell notes are easier with a computer.

 

 

 

Do you have recommendations for outline & Cornell notes apps?

 

Not meaning to ignore your rant, but I'd love to know.

[Luckymama]

My son, a computer science major, takes notes for almost all of his classes on his laptop. Only for math classes does he use paper and pencil-----and then he transcribes those notes later using LaTeX. After losing a notebook in high school he now likes the security of having all of his notes in the cloud.

[Mergath]

I finished college in 2008, so I have some experience taking notes both on paper and on my old Macbook, and I'd go with paper any day.  Unless a lecture is absolutely riveting, a laptop is just too distracting.  The few times I brought my laptop with me to class, the second the lecture became dull I'd find myself on Facebook... or playing a game of solitaire...  or even randomly looking through the different fonts in Word.  I wasn't the only one, either.  If you sat in the back of the room, you could see that everyone else with a computer was doing the same thing.

 

I plan on making my dd write stuff out by hand because I want her to learn how to focus on one thing for an extended period of time.  Computers and tablets are way too effective at negating that.

[regentrude]

Totally agree that math and sciences require handwriting.

 

I am surprised that so few of regentrude's students use computers for notes. The college my son's best friend went to required them to buy a computer and use them for notes, among other things, and that was in the days of notebook computers. My son, now 29, always used computer for his notes as did most of the people he went to school with. He was a philosophy/religious studies major. Perhaps it depends upon the region and the major?

 

I teach physics. The notes consist mostly of sketched diagrams and equations that include subscripts, vector signs, Greek characters, fractions, summations... a royal PITA if you want to type them in something like Word. Even programs geared towards  typing equations like LaTeX will be much too slow to effectively take notes in real time. Things will change with the tablets that can be used with a stylus, because then the students can hand write their equations.

 

I would assume a philosophy and religious study major would mainly have classes where the notes involve actual words and sentences, an entirely different situation.

 

BTW, my DD is taking an English class this semester, and the instructor explicitly prohibits the use of laptops in class... I am sure she had plenty of bad experiences where the laptop was used for anything but notetaking...

 

ETA: Saw the comment about socioeconomics: I am pretty sure most of my students have laptops and even carry them around. I see many of them doing stuff on their laptops just before class - but then they pack them away and get out pencil and paper.