If my son fails at something it's so hard to get him to keep going

[idnib]

I'm having a problem with my son, DS9.

 

If he tries something and fails, or tries something and does okay but sees someone else is better than he is, he just shuts down. For example if we're at the pool and he tries to do something and has trouble, while his sister or another kid does it with no problem, he will cross his arms, get tears in his eyes, and stop trying. And that will be that. He will sit until it's time to go home and take whatever consequences occur. 

 

As parents we try very hard to emphasize hard work over natural ability or luck. We praise the kids for effort and for trying to do difficult tasks. In areas that come more easily to him he is more than willing to try and practice things over and over again. 

 

He is an anxious and sensitive child, but I do believe he feels we love him and accept him regardless of his abilities in any area.

 

Ideas? I'm really frustrated. I'm not sure if I should "coddle" him or push him harder. I'm in between right now, doing neither.  :sad:

[Wilma]

I just read the best book about this very thing!  It's called Mindsets written by Carol Dweck.  You should totally read it.

 

Her basic premise is that there are two general mindsets: a fixed mindset assumes that most things about a person are not changeable and a growth mindset supposes that most things can change.  So someone with a fixed mindset would feel like a failure as a person when they encounter failure, and a person with a growth mindset would see an opportunity to learn something and improve as a result.

She gives lots of ideas for helping people move from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset.  One main thing with kids is being mindful of how we praise.  Rather than "hey, wow!  You aced that spelling test without even studying!" it might be "ooh, I see you got all those right without any effort -- hey, sorry for wasting your time.  Let's find some more difficult words that you can learn from."  It sounds like you're already mindful of those ideas, but you might glean some other tidbits from her book.

 

 

[g1234]

I wonder if the book Mindset by Carol Dweck might be useful for helping you give him ways of thinking about work, success, failure, mistakes, etc. It's something you would read, not him, probably, at his age. I am surprised how often I notice myself drawing on her ideas and language in helping my kids frame/reframe experiences of frustration or mistakes or failure. Just a thought if you haven't read it. But I also agree with the pp--it's a bummer to fail and lots of kids and adults dislike it! Best wishes.

[Mom22ns]

My son was very like that when he was younger. If he failed or just felt incompetent, he quit. I think I did nothing. I didn't encourage it or coddle it, but I didn't really push either. I might have given a few gentle nudges on the try again front :).

 

Now at 16, while he is still quite sensitive, he is a hard worker and doesn't give up on anything he wants. If he really doesn't want to do something, he can get discouraged easily, but maybe that is more like he is just looking for an excuse because he doesn't really want to do it :)

 

I guess my point is, don't worry about it. Being easily discouraged at 9, doesn't mean he will be easily discouraged as an adult.

 

Like Wendy, both ds and I are perfectionists that don't like doing things we can't do well. We both also prefer to try things we might not be good at without others watching. However, if either of us wants to accomplish something, look out, we will not easily be dissuaded even if is going to be hugely difficult.

[idnib]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I'm embarrassed to say I actually have the Mindset book sitting under a bunch of other reading. I think I've had it for at least 3 years but have never gotten around to reading it. Thanks for reminding me!

 

I guess my worries are less about him growing up to be someone who won't try new things or will give up easily. That's a possibility of course, but my concern was more immediate: kids having fun at the pool while he sits on the side and just watches in some sort of self-imposed exile, wasting money on lessons when 10 minutes into the lesson he gives up, etc.

 

I also really don't like to fail; I'm a firstborn and very Type A, but failure makes me angry. I feel like if he became angry I could channel that. I'm mystified by someone who just seems defeated so quickly.

 

I'll start the book tonight.

[KrissiK]

Oh mercy. That sounds exactly like my 9 year old. Yesterday we had a 2 hour sob fest because of math problems he got wrong. He hates being put on the spot for anything, even asking him a question can cause him to shut down. So, he got these math problems wrong and was a complete and utter wreck. I tried to give him tools to correct them, etc. nothing helped. Finally, we put it away until after supper, got it out again, I gave him a nudge in the right direction and he finished the whole page, correctly, in 10 minutes. It's very difficult to teach him because I don't know if he truly doesn't understand a concept, or if he's just shutting down due to it being new and he gets nervous.

[mamaraby]

No huge insights here, but just wanted to poast and say that my 8yo ds is very similae tomyours and has been since he was 5yo. He's a perfectionist, senstitive, hates to lose, hates to be left out kind of guy. We sent the kids to public school last year because I was stretched so thin and my ds' tendency to shut dow was a *major* issue the whole year both from the teacher's perspective and from a socialization perspective. If the class was ounished as a whole or if he was criticized by the kids at recess for missing the goal in soccer or crying when he got hurt then he was ostracized and made fun of by the group. I remember at 5yo when he got upset b/c he didn't win the prize drawing at the library reading program and got kicked out of the program by the librarian.

 

Ugh. It's been a source of stress and frustration for both ds and I. We've mostly tried to scaffold around him. Encourage him to keep trying, model good reactions when one makes mistakes or loses a game, talk, talk, talk, and talk. If it's school work related, then like a pp we'll sometimes put it away and come back later, but yeah, big struggle.

 

As for school...well we're homeschooling again this year b/c my otherwise happy kid became surly, angry, and his classroom behavior really went downhill which of course is a whole 'nother ball of motherly guilt.

 

Hmm...probably not very helpful, but I absolutely get where you're coming from.

[Sobeknofret]

My 9-yr old is exactly like this! He's a perfectionist; if he can't get it completely right the first time, he shuts down and immediately announces that he can't do it at all. I've tried to show him that making mistakes is part of the learning process, and that mom and dad make mistakes all the time, and we keep trying until we can do it, but he's stubborn as a mule. The worst part is that I'm never sure whether he's just being stubborn because he can't get it right, or that he's really not ready for that kind of work yet. I had this problem with his reading, and I pushed too hard at the wrong time. Result: although he *can* read, he hates to :crying:

 

I don't have any solutions, but I have lots of sympathy!

[dmmm]

Yeah, all of you should read Mindsets!!!

[Ellie]

This is a very first-born response. Ask me how I know this.

 

At some point, you might have to look him in the eyeball and gently tell him to get over it.

 

Also, add "The Birth Order Book" to your reading list. :-)

[idnib]

Could you move him to a session that his sib is not in?

 

Also, could you leave the pool area? Sometimes it helps if the child is not able to put on that show for the parent; leaving the swim instructor with more room to get him back in to the lesson.

 

 One thing that helped my sons learn that lesson -- some people have to put more work in than others -- was just getting out there in a sport they wanted to be in and being around the leaders (of all ages) who were willing to cheer them on and help them refine their technique. It soon became obvious that even the naturals had to work at it at some point.

 

I could talk to my friend who is teaching him to swim. They don't have different sessions per se because a homeschooling friend of our family is a swim teacher and coach and he's been teaching them one at a time, but back to back. He's really good and has taught all the kids in our circle, plus countless other kids.

 

I don't stay for the sessions. They watch the kids for a few hours while I work and because the husband is a swim teacher and coach he teaches them during that time I'm at work. I just show up at the end. The information I've provided about the problem is from him, and from arriving at the end of the lessons to find my son in tears.

[idnib]

Oh mercy. That sounds exactly like my 9 year old. Yesterday we had a 2 hour sob fest because of math problems he got wrong. He hates being put on the spot for anything, even asking him a question can cause him to shut down. So, he got these math problems wrong and was a complete and utter wreck. I tried to give him tools to correct them, etc. nothing helped. Finally, we put it away until after supper, got it out again, I gave him a nudge in the right direction and he finished the whole page, correctly, in 10 minutes. It's very difficult to teach him because I don't know if he truly doesn't understand a concept, or if he's just shutting down due to it being new and he gets nervous.

 

Yes! It's the shutting down: the slumped shoulders, the energy leaving and the lack of will to continue. I feel your pain...

[LNC]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I'm embarrassed to say I actually have the Mindset book sitting under a bunch of other reading. I think I've had it for at least 3 years but have never gotten around to reading it. Thanks for reminding me!

 

I guess my worries are less about him growing up to be someone who won't try new things or will give up easily. That's a possibility of course, but my concern was more immediate: kids having fun at the pool while he sits on the side and just watches in some sort of self-imposed exile, wasting money on lessons when 10 minutes into the lesson he gives up, etc.

 

I also really don't like to fail; I'm a firstborn and very Type A, but failure makes me angry. I feel like if he became angry I could channel that. I'm mystified by someone who just seems defeated so quickly.

 

I'll start the book tonight.

I agree with the Mindset book. It has helped me with the same problem.

[ajaabney]

Sounds like you've gotten some great advice here.  My 9 year old is the same.  What's worked best for us is to just keep putting him in those situations again and again and trying to stay calm ourselves (not always successfully!).  We've also taught him to take deep breaths and to step away when he starts to get upset.  After a few minutes, we ask him to try again.  It's a process.  

[KrissiK]

This is a very first-born response. Ask me how I know this.

 

At some point, you might have to look him in the eyeball and gently tell him to get over it.

 

Also, add "The Birth Order Book" to your reading list. :-)

Except.... that he's number two. And his older brother can do everything he sets his hand to with ease.

[Ellie]

Except.... that he's number two. And his older brother can do everything he sets his hand to with ease.

 

DOH. Clearly I didn't read your siggy in its entirety, lol.

 

Still, the Birth Order Book would be good to read, and you still might need to tell him to Just Do It. Also, is it possible that the older brother gives him grief if he doesn't measure up to whatever the older brother's standards are? In which case, you'd need to get on the older brother.

[KrissiK]

DOH. Clearly I didn't read your siggy in its entirety, lol.

 

Still, the Birth Order Book would be good to read, and you still might need to tell him to Just Do It. Also, is it possible that the older brother gives him grief if he doesn't measure up to whatever the older brother's standards are? In which case, you'd need to get on the older brother.

I know. I should read that book. I've always even curious if birth order is a genetic type of thing or conditioning. My children are all adopted. They were all very young when we adopted them, but the order they come in our family is not the order they are in their biological families. I've always wondered if that made any kind of difference.

[Ellie]

I know. I should read that book. I've always even curious if birth order is a genetic type of thing or conditioning. My children are all adopted. They were all very young when we adopted them, but the order they come in our family is not the order they are in their biological families. I've always wondered if that made any kind of difference.

 

I've always wondered that, as well.

 

I might just read it again. It was the first book I've ever read that really nailed my personality, KWIM? Those books about learning styles and sanguine/melancholy/whatever never fit me exactly, but yeah, I know for sure I'm a firstborn, lol.

[idnib]

The first-born thing.

 

Yes, my DH and I are both first children, and the fact that we're married is interesting to me. All the other marriages I know with a first-born in them have a non-first born for the spouse.

 

I think part of the challenge is DS is the first-born but almost everything comes much easier to our second-born DD. DS is usually "in front" of her in skill because of the 4-year age gap, but anyone who remembers him at her age can see the difference. Maybe aware of this on some level. Hmmm....

[Ellie]

The first-born thing.

 

Yes, my DH and I are both first children, and the fact that we're married is interesting to me. All the other marriages I know with a first-born in them have a non-first born for the spouse.

 

I think part of the challenge is DS is the first-born but almost everything comes much easier to our second-born DD. DS is usually "in front" of her in skill because of the 4-year age gap, but anyone who remembers him at her age can see the difference. Maybe aware of this on some level. Hmmm....

 

Mr. Ellie and I are both first-borns. My older dd married a first-born. ;-)

[Ellie]

 

I think part of the challenge is DS is the first-born but almost everything comes much easier to our second-born DD. DS is usually "in front" of her in skill because of the 4-year age gap, but anyone who remembers him at her age can see the difference. Maybe aware of this on some level. Hmmm....

 

Ah, but see, your dd counts as a first-born because she is the first-born *girl.*

 

[KrissiK]

I am a first born and dh is sort of last born. He's last of 4 boys and then 5 years later his sister was born.

[CookieMonster]

He sounds like a typical boy.  There are many types of boys, and he fits one of the typical profiles.  At 9 yo he just doesn't have the skills to always cope with failure as adults do.

 

If you want to add another book to your reading list, try The Way of Boys by Anthony Rao.  I found it incredibly insightful and helpful.