Starting to panic here...

[ssexton]

Ok, here is my requisite introductory message that begins, "My son is starting 9th grade next year, and I'm in full blown panic mode..."  :)

 

My ds waivers between wanting to follow a more STEM oriented field like engineering or programming and wanting to be a trial lawyer.  He is very strong in the humanities and capable in math and science.  What I don't know is how to structure his high school years so as to keep all of his options open.  Here are our current plans:

 

English: 4 years of Omnibus

 

History: 3 years of Omnibus; one additional year of government and economics.

 

Math:  Alg. 1 taken in 8th grade; Geometry through Calculus with Derek Owens.

 

Science:  Biology and Chemistry courses and labs taken through local tutorial (Apologia); Physics with Derek Owens.  One other lab class, but not sure where.  Maybe dual enrollment? Online?

 

Foreign Language: German 1 taken in 8th grade at OSU.  Planning to complete up through German 4 (AP) at OSU

 

To graduate he also needs .5 credit keyboarding; 3 credits of Bible; 1 credit PE and 1 credit fine arts or performing arts (per our umbrella)

 

How does this plan look?  Please, please let me know if something is lacking or adjustment is needed! Also, what types of electives should he pursue for a STEM degree, and how do we find them?  I'm imagining he should be taking some programming classes? What about drafting?  It's so hard not to compare with PS, but my nephew who is beginning college this year as an engineering major has taken drafting in school for 4 years! I just want to do the best I can to equip my son with what he needs to be successful.  

 

What about AP classes? Dual enrollment? Merit and/or sports scholarships will be necessary unless he wants to live at home and attend a state university that's about 30 mins away. It, however, does not offer engineering...

 

He is hoping to participate on a mock trial team that is forming this year in our area, and in the process he'll hopefully be able to connect with a local attorney and get a feel for whether or not this is something he wants to pursue.  He's also a golfer and spends a lot of time volunteering with our local First Tee program and golfing on the homeschool team and local tournaments.  He's a good kid, who is busy, and we need to make the best use of his time.

 

If you've made it through all this--thank you from the bottom of my heart!!  I greatly appreciate any wisdom you can share!

 

 

 

[jhschool]

You don't need drafting.  (I am not saying you shouldn't do drafting, only that

you absolutely do not need it for a STEM career.)

 

Computer Programming is very useful to have studied, although not absolutely

necessary.  I recommend AoPS Introduction to Programming.  It is an excellent course.

I would be reluctant to send a kid who wanted to study Computer Programming and

no programming background.  When your child is done with that, AoPS has a Java

course too.  CTY (Center for Talented Youth) has some awesome-looking computer

programming classes.  PA Homeschoolers has an AP Computer Science class.

 

You need as many AP level classes as possible if you want to get into a top

university (although you may well be able to get in even with no AP classes at all).  

If you don't need a top university, you have more options, including dual

enrollment, etc.

 

Your choices all sound fine.  For engineering or programming you need a strong

math background (which you are taking care of through Derek Owens).  Your sciences

sound fine too.

 

I don't know anything about the lawyer option, but except for Computer Programming,

I think your plan looks good for the STEM option.

[regentrude]

You need *four* years of English. Government and economcs are NOT English courses.

 

Programming is useful, but not mandatory for a student interested in engineering. But if he wants to major in computer science, he better have programming experience because he will be surrounded by kids who do this for recreation. If he is not one of those, he might want to rethink comp sci.

 

In addition to just "keyboarding" the studnet should have some basic computer skills class and be able to use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, a graphing program, do some basic website programing, know about hardware.

 

There are no "must have" electives for a STEM major; strong math skills are the only real requirement.

I doubt drafting is needed.

 

Whether AP or dual enrollment depends on a variety of factors: your student's personality, the local offerings, your subject expertise... and teh school he wants to apply. I recommend reading the links in the sticky thread.

[Harriet Vane]

You need an English course in addition to government and economics.

 

Also I would strongly recommend a beefier science option for a future STEM major. I don't think Apologia will be adequate for someone who wants to major in the sciences.

[ssexton]

Computer Programming is very useful to have studied, although not absolutely

 

necessary.  I recommend AoPS Introduction to Programming.  It is an excellent course.

I would be reluctant to send a kid who wanted to study Computer Programming and

no programming background.  When your child is done with that, AoPS has a Java

course too.  CTY (Center for Talented Youth) has some awesome-looking computer

programming classes.  PA Homeschoolers has an AP Computer Science class.

 

Thank you for these resources!!  I didn't realize AoPS had programming classes--for some reason I thought they were exclusively math oriented. I appreciate the help!

 

Thank you also for the feedback on AP classes. It is what I suspected, although I'm always surprised when I look around and don't see many homeschoolers in my area pursuing them.  I don't know that we need a top university, although we would certainly be thrilled.  Money will be an issue and merit scholarships will be required, unfortunately.

 

Thanks again!!

[ssexton]

You need *four* years of English. Government and economcs are NOT English courses.

 

 

Yes! Of course!  :)  For the first three years, history and English are integrated through Omnibus (two separate classes, but they cover the same time period.)  His senior year he will be taking a fourth English class in addition to government and economics.  I didn't write that correctly, and I'll go back and edit.  Thanks!

 

Regentrude, I don't know if he is a good fit for computer programming, honestly.  It's something he is interested in though, and I'd like to keep the door open to him.  I think we will look at a programming class for him his freshman year for the exposure. We'll see what happens.  I feel much more comfortable addressing his interest in law school, as that is the route I took.  I can help him get there, but the STEM path is much more of a mystery to me.  That's why I'm very grateful for your input!

[ssexton]

You need an English course in addition to government and economics.

 

Also I would strongly recommend a beefier science option for a future STEM major. I don't think Apologia will be adequate for someone who wants to major in the sciences.

 

Thanks, Harriet!  I edited my earlier post--I didn't mean to indicate he wouldn't be taking a fourth year of English. I forgot I had lumped English and history together under Omnibus and neglected to add in the fourth year.  Thanks!!

 

I had my suspicions about Apologia, and I was hoping someone would address that.  My problem is that Apologia is the only option offered locally.  I was a humanities person myself--I have majors in English and Poli Science and then went to law school.  I am not confident in my ability to provide a beefy lab science on my own, and don't know where else to turn.  Do you have any recommendations? Anything online?  Thanks!!

 

[Harriet Vane]

Thanks, Harriet!  I edited my earlier post--I didn't mean to indicate he wouldn't be taking a fourth year of English. I forgot I had lumped English and history together under Omnibus and neglected to add in the fourth year.  Thanks!!

 

I had my suspicions about Apologia, and I was hoping someone would address that.  My problem is that Apologia is the only option offered locally.  I was a humanities person myself--I have majors in English and Poli Science and then went to law school.  I am not confident in my ability to provide a beefy lab science on my own, and don't know where else to turn.  Do you have any recommendations? Anything online?  Thanks!!

 

 

Such a hard issue. I also have a degree in English and Rhetoric, so science is not my thing. I am fortunate, however, to have some science options locally for my ds. I considered Apologia just fine for my dd, whose strengths are with languages arts, but definitely not for my ds.

 

I have heard good things about ScholarsOnline. However, I have also heard (from sources I really trust) that colleges do not look kindly upon internet lab sciences.

 

Is there a community college in your area? That may be a viable option.

[snowbeltmom]

 

What about AP classes? Dual enrollment? Merit and/or sports scholarships will be necessary unless he wants to live at home and attend a state university that's about 30 mins away. It, however, does not offer engineering...

 

A few random thoughts...

 

If your son is hoping for an athletic scholarship, you will want to make sure you are up to speed on the NCAA requirements that your son will have to meet if he plays for a Div I or Div II school.

 

I would try to fit in some math topics in number theory and counting and probability if your son is interested in computer science.

 

I am a huge AoPS fan, but our experience with their introduction to programming class was not good.

 

A few parents on another list recommended eIMACS to me last year for my son who is also interested in computer science.  The classes are expensive, but we feel they are worth the money.

[amy58103]

If he is thinking computer science/programming, drafting really isn't necessary.  If he is thinking more like electrical/mechanical engineering than it would be useful, but not necessary.  (There are plenty of engineering students in college that have never taken drafting.)

 

You might want to consider an elective in Logic ... this would be beneficial for engineering, computer science and law.

 

For AP courses, I would recommend Physics, Chemistry, and an English course.  (Do NOT underestimate how important good communication skills are for engineers!!!!! <---- sorry, a pet peeve of mine :tongue_smilie:)  AP Biology if he is really interested in it.  Economics would also be a good choice (some undergrad programs in engineering require it). 

 

Along with a mock trial team, you might want to look and see if there is a robotics team he could participate in.

 

BTW, I know several people that got bachelors degrees in engineering and then went on to become lawyers.  If a building collapses, its really helpful to have a lawyer that understands how engineering "works."

 

[Lori D.]

"My son is starting 9th grade next year, and I'm in full blown panic mode..."  :)

 

 

First,  :grouphug: ! I spent all of my older DS's 9th grade year doing this:  :willy_nilly:. So you're ahead of the game getting that out of the way now in the summer before your DS starts 9th grade. ;)

 

 

What I don't know is how to structure his high school years so as to keep all of his options open. 

 

Keeping your options open is not as hard as you would think. Your DS can get a degree in a STEM field, business, or even the humanities, and still be very desireable for Law school. Quite often, the law programs *prefer* students who have branched out and have a degree or background in something other than just Law.

 

As far as structuring your high school to keep your options open, here's what is typically needed for admission to the majority of universities:

4 credits = English (Literature and Composition/Writing)

4 credits = Math (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2, and a higher math requiring Alg. 2 as pre-requisite)

3-4 credits = Science (with labs)

2-3 credits = Social Studies (1 credit = Amer. History; and usually 1 credit = World History, 0.5 credit each = Econ & Gov't )

2-4 credits = Foreign Language (of the same language)

1 credit = Fine Arts

total = 16-20 credits

 

You also are listing the additional requirements of the umbrella school as

0.5 credit = keyboarding

3 credits = Bible

1 credit = PE

 

Looks like you are also interested in accomplishing some Electives (Drafting and Programming). Typically, students average about  0.5 to 1 credit per year for Electives  to explore interests. That puts you up to 22.5 to 28.5 credits total for structuring your high school in a way that leaves all your options open.

 

(Note: to compete for admission to the much smaller number of more selective schools, a top tier schools, or Ivies, you'd probably want to make sure DS had taken a minimum of 26-28 credits, taken Honors courses, done 3-5 AP courses/tests, and had been involved in a number of extracurriculars and activities showing a high level of leadership and initiative.)

 

So (rounding, now), 22-28 credits breaks down to 5-7 credits per school year -- usually something like:

1 credit = English

1 credit = Math

1 credit = Science

1 credit = Social Studies

1 credit = Foreign Language

1-2 credits = Elective (these can be required credits (Bible, PE, etc.), and/or special interests -- Drafting, Programming, etc.)

 

If 6-7 credits a year would be overwhelming for your DS, consider knocking out a 0.5 credit each summer -- Keyboarding, PE, or other elective would be ideal. That would would bring you down to 5.5 to 6.5 credits each year.

 

So, your current overview plans fit right into all of this quite neatly. From here, it's just a matter of deciding which credits to do in each year, which curricula to choose for each class, and whether or not you want to do AP or dual enrollment, and if so, which year to do it in. Regentrude and the other previous posters have given you some good specific feedback for whether or not the Drafting and Programming would be needed, or what might be more useful alternative electives. :)

 

 

What about AP classes? Dual enrollment? Merit and/or sports scholarships will be necessary unless he wants to live at home and attend a state university that's about 30 mins away. It, however, does not offer engineering...

 

AP classes

Regentrude brought up good points to consider. Since $$ is going to be an issue, do realize that high scores (4 or 5) on AP tests can reduce your student's class load going into college, *IF* the college grants credit for AP. So it can reduce your financial load just a little. You need to research the universities DS is interested in attending.

 

Dual Enrollment

Dual enrollment at a community college (CC), if accepted by the university, can even knock off 1-2 years of going to a university for a 4-year degree. This can save you a LOT of $$ if the CC tuition is significantly lower than the university --  but in some cases, it can also cause you to enter as a transfer student rather than a freshman and so limit some of the scholarships you are eligible for. (A few universities only allow 12-24 credits of dual enrollment before the student is no longer considered a freshman.)

 

I strongly encourage you to read through the past threads on pros/cons of AP and Dual Enrollment that are all linked in the pinned thread at the top of the high school board: Outsourcing, Online Classes, Tutors, Dual Enrollment AP, SAT II, CLEP -- past threads linked here! The lists of linked threads are in post #1 and post #2.

 

Merit Aid

Factors most likely to help with getting merit aid, in this order, with #1 being far and away the most important factor:

1. high SAT / ACT scores (so -- do lots of test prep, maybe take a test prep class, consider taking the tests several times)

2. extracurriculars (that show leadership, responsibility, and esp. if done with nationally-known/respected organizations)

3. high academics (high GPA, Honors classes, high AP scores or other national test scores)

4. volunteer/community service hours (some scholarships have this as a requirement for consideration)

 

In addition to working on the above 4 factors, there are a number of things you can be doing now towards earning "outside" money (i.e., scholarships from the community or organizations that are NOT the college). Check out the past threads linked in the pinned thread at the top of the high school board: Transcripts, Credits, GPA/Grading, Accreditation, College Prep/Applications, Financial Aid/Scholarships, Career Exploration -- past threads linked here. Post #5 of that pinned thread has the list of linked threads on scholarships and the financial aid process.

 

 

He is hoping to participate on a mock trial team that is forming this year in our area, and in the process he'll hopefully be able to connect with a local attorney and get a feel for whether or not this is something he wants to pursue... He's also a golfer and spends a lot of time volunteering with our local First Tee program and golfing on the homeschool team and local tournaments. 

 

Mock Trial is an excellent extracurricular to have towards college admission and scholarship applications! So, whether or not it helps your DS decide if this is the field he's interested in, I'd suggest continue with the program all 4 years of high school. That gives him the opportunity to also move into leadership roles in the program, which looks extra-good.

 

Another really good program to consider if your state offers it is YMCA's Youth and Government. It is a mock legislative extracurricular program that culminates with a 2 or 3 day mock legislative session at the State Capital. Another excellent program that encourages debate, thinking, and understanding of the legislative process, but also looks very good on college and scholarship applications. Model United Nations is another good one to look for -- the nearby University may offer that (the college students run the program for the high school students to participate in a 2 or 3 day mock Model UN session, with students in small groups each representing a different nation).

 

The volunteering with First Tee and local golf tournaments is another GREAT extracurricular that will help with college admission and scholarship applications!

 

Plus, sports is another great extracurricular to have on the transcript. See if DS can get on the local public or private high school team (if they have a golf team). It's really great if he can earn a Varsity letter on a high school team. AND... Golf is one of those "hidden" sports that offers sports scholarships at colleges, so that may be a GREAT backdoor into $$ -- for example, the DS of a friend of mine is going to an out of state school on a golf scholarship! You definitely need to be very careful to follow NCAA regulations all through HIGH SCHOOL in order for a student to be eligible to play college sports, and therefore be eligible for sports scholarships. Again, check out the past threads on NCAA in post #5 of the pinned thread: Transcripts, Credits, GPA/Grading, Accreditation, College Prep/Applications, Financial Aid/Scholarships, Career Exploration -- past threads linked here.

 

 

Looks like you're on your way to a great start into high school! You may find these threads helpful in your general overview and structuring of YOUR homeschool high school:

 

High School "Time Table" (4-year time table for high school of what to do and when, including when to take tests, do college search, apply for college, apply for financial aid, etc.)

My son is starting high school (linked resources, tips, and gentle steps from posters on getting started)

High school curriculum -- where do I start (how to decide what credits to do, and then how to select curriculum)

Homeschooling high school... where to begin? (links to lots of threads on specific topics: getting started, curriculum, credits, transcripts, etc.)

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[ssexton]

Thank you so much for all the replies!! Lori, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out!! You have given me so much to think about, and I'm printing it out for my file.

 

To those who mentioned NCAA, I'm on it.  :)  I've been reading up on the eligibility requirements, and of course those are just more pieces to the puzzle.  Oy...

[stoverdavid30]

We found out the hard way...that we needed to be involved in an association to help us navigate these waters.

[Lori D.]

... those are just more pieces to the puzzle.  Oy...

 

 

Yes, but it's a puzzle that you put together a little at a time, and slowly, over the course of 4 years of high school -- NOT in the 6 weeks before starting 9th grade! ;)

 

And a lot of that has to do with how much your student grows, matures, and changes over the next 4 years. SO many times they do a 180 in 12th grade about career interests and college.

 

So plan, yes... But hold lightly to those plans. And certainly don't stress about having to know it all right NOW. :) Being your student's high school administrator/counselor is a job YOU grow into, too! ;)

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[ssexton]

If he is thinking computer science/programming, drafting really isn't necessary.  If he is thinking more like electrical/mechanical engineering than it would be useful, but not necessary.  (There are plenty of engineering students in college that have never taken drafting.)

 

You might want to consider an elective in Logic ... this would be beneficial for engineering, computer science and law.

 

For AP courses, I would recommend Physics, Chemistry, and an English course.  (Do NOT underestimate how important good communication skills are for engineers!!!!! <---- sorry, a pet peeve of mine :tongue_smilie:)  AP Biology if he is really interested in it.  Economics would also be a good choice (some undergrad programs in engineering require it). 

 

Along with a mock trial team, you might want to look and see if there is a robotics team he could participate in.

 

BTW, I know several people that got bachelors degrees in engineering and then went on to become lawyers.  If a building collapses, its really helpful to have a lawyer that understands how engineering "works."

 

Thank you, Amy!  I just thought I'd update with this:  I talked to ds, and he is very enthusiastic about the idea of pursuing an engineering degree first, and then going on to law school. I love the idea in that if he doesn't go to law school, he has a very marketable degree. If he does, he has a skill set that makes him unique among lawyers.  Thank you!

 

[Mrs Mungo]

Thank you, Amy!  I just thought I'd update with this:  I talked to ds, and he is very enthusiastic about the idea of pursuing an engineering degree first, and then going on to law school. I love the idea in that if he doesn't go to law school, he has a very marketable degree. If he does, he has a skill set that makes him unique among lawyers.  Thank you!

 

 

My uncle has an engineering degree and graduated at the top of his law class. He is a patent lawyer now.