AoPS - is it the book or the class?

[Melissa B]

For those that have used Art of Problem Solving math - do you think it is the books or the classes that really make AoPS so good? I was thinking it would be the classes (unless the parent is really good at math.) I'm not really sure I could help dd much with the books. I'm pretty good with math through Algebra II/Geometry but not anything higher and not anything along the lines of number theory. But I see the classes are going up another $40-$50 dollars this fall. I really don't see how we will be able to afford these classes in another two years when dd would begin. My 3rd dd loves math (complete opposite of her older sisters) and I want it to be fun/challenging for her. Right now she thinks Saxon, Singapore and LOF are all fun and often does all three. Should I even consider the AoPS books, or just let it go and stick with other programs that I can work through with her?

[wapiti]

The AoPS books by themselves are wonderful and were designed to be used independently without the classes. You do not need the classes, especially at the lower levels where you can help if your student runs into trouble.

 

- The text includes full solutions to the lesson problems and the solutions manual includes the full solutions to all the exercises.

- There are free videos for the lessons in Prealgebra and Alg 1, and eventually there may be videos for the other courses as well.

- There are extensive forums on the site where your student can ask for help.

 

The classes are fun and enthusiasm-building but I'd guess that far more people use the books alone. Many prefer to work at their own pace anyway.

[Matryoshka]

I would say hands-down the books. Dd took the class for Prealgebra, and it was good, but the classes were still more of a discussion than teaching the material. But she still had to read and work through the book, where there are thorough explanations of all the concepts. Also, the classes move at lightning-speed - I think a lot of kids that can benefit from the books may find the classes move too fast for them to really absorb the information. That's why we didn't do the Algebra I class and are just doing the book (the Algebra class seems to move at about twice the pace of the Prealgebra class...).

 

I rather wish they had classes at two different speeds for different learners, but I'm not holding my breath... RR has said that there's no race to Calculus. Then why should my 6th-grader be expected to finish Algebra 1 in 16 weeks (the class pace)? Why not take the full year??

[Luckymama]

Argh just lost my reply!!!!

 

If you work through the books ahead of your dd, even by working through a chapter on the weekend, you will be fine. The solutions manuals can be a great help. I especially like it when the multiple solutions are presented for the same problem as dd and I tend to solve things differently.

 

The classes are compressed and very fast paced. They assume the student has mathematical talent and/or has been exposed to the material covered, either by taking a class in school, by working through the AoPS book before the class begins, or (at least) by studying the day's class material in the book before that particular class.

[Arcadia]

ETA:

Nevermind, I'm not very coherent today. My pet died early morning.

[8filltheheart]

why should my 6th-grader be expected to finish Algebra 1 in 16 weeks (the class pace)? Why not take the full year??

 

 

I see the classes more as a moderated peer to peer discussion after a child has finished the material on their own. Kind of like in school where all the materials have been covered and the teacher still have classes before the end of year exam for students to ask questions and to go over questions or concepts that most students might have problems with.

 

 

That is not the way a lot of the students use the online classes if I am interpreting your response correctly. Since you quoted Matryoshka, I think you are suggesting that kids are taking the classes as follow up after going through the texts? WHile I agree with Matryoshka that kids need to move at their own pace, many kids (my own included) learn the material via the classes (as in his first exposure to the topics was while taking the class).

 

As far as class vs. text, text wins hands down. My ds got a lot out of the classes and they do add a different dimension, however, the texts by themselves are still fabulous.

[8filltheheart]

 

If you work through the books ahead of your dd, even by working through a chapter on the weekend, you will be fine. The solutions manuals can be a great help. I especially like it when the multiple solutions are presented for the same problem as dd and I tend to solve things differently.

 

 

 

 

Definitely not true in my case. My old brain cannot exert the energy it would require to relearn math beyond alg 2. :p He was on his own, used the class, or I had to hire a private tutor.

[Arcadia]

That is not the way a lot of the students use the online classes if I am interpreting your response correctly. Since you quoted Matryoshka, I think you are suggesting that kids are taking the classes as follow up after going through the texts?

 

Based on reading the description on their website and the duration of the class, I would assume a lot more prep work on the part of the student. This is purely my opinion of course.

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=howclassroomworks

Different strokes for different kids, my opinion is just that the marginal utility might be higher if the child has covered the groundwork before attending the class. The OP and anyone else would have to decide based on their own children.

 

[Luckymama]

The student gets much more out of the class discussion if they do the suggested reading (and problems) before each class. The student is strongly urged to do so in the "welcome to the class" message they receive before the course begins.

 

I require dd to do all of the boxed problems, end-of-section problems and related end-of-chapter review and challenge problems before class each week. If I'm paying that class fee, she's doing all the work!

 

I don't know if she'll continue with the online classes during the academic year. The 7:30-9pm time frame is difficult with her ballet and FLL schedule during the fall and winter. She wants to continue, though.

[8filltheheart]

The student gets much more out of the class discussion if they do the suggested reading (and problems) before each class. The student is strongly urged to do so in the "welcome to the class" message they receive before the course begins.

 

I require dd to do all of the boxed problems, end-of-section problems and related end-of-chapter review and challenge problems before class each week. If I'm paying that class fee, she's doing all the work!

 

I agree completely with this.

 

I wanted to clarify that I was not intending for my post to be interpreted as suggesting that they learn the material from the class.....b/c they don't. The classes are basically the same as the book in how the material is presented.

 

My interpretation of Arcadia's post was that students completely finish a text and then take the course---not simply the related work for the class assignment for the week. Yeah, if they don't do the assigned work prior to the class they will most likely be lost.

[Melissa B]

Thanks for the replies. It's good to know the books alone are the bulk of the program. I suppose she can try the books and see how far we get. I don't see myself as able to stay ahead of her by working in advance. I don't really have the time, let alone the ability. If the books alone aren't working we could always fall back to what we were doing.