Omnibus - how teacher-intensive is it?

[Lugrita]

I am still finalizing my decision on the history/literature/bible curriculum for my rising 9th grader, and I'm completely out of time. I have everything else ready to go. I would love input from those who have used Omnibus - how teacher-intensive is it?

 

I am having a tough time deciding between MFW AHL, and Omnibus III (Omnibus III would put my 9th grader in the same history period that the rest of my kids will be studying next year, so that would be nice...if we do MFW, we need to start at the beginning because of the way that the skills build). I much prefer the literature and theology book lists in Omnibus. But I don't know what is required of my son or of me in that program. I have a serious illness (life-threatening...my mom died of this when she was just a few years older than I am) and three other kids to teach, so I need to be realistic about what we can do. MFW is an easy choice because it will get done no matter how I'm doing...my son won't fall behind with that, and I can keep up with my portion of it easily. I would be happy with it and so would my son. As a former English major, however, Omnibus is my ideal choice - I drool just looking at the book lists. But if it's teacher-intensive, or if it is extremely intense for a student who is just beginning Veritas at the 9th grade level, then I know it's not a wise choice for our situation.

 

I'd love any feedback from those who have done Omnibus, MFW, or both. I have been holding off this decision because we've been invited to enroll in some new co-op classes that would cover some of these things, but they've been slow to give info of what they will be doing and what we would need to buy, so I'm just proceeding on my own. :)

 

 

 

[BlsdMama]

Wondering as well. It's Ana's choice for her senior year.

[Kelly1730]

My daughter did this in her junior year and she did it very independently. But, she's a self-motivated student if that has any bearing on it.

[74Heaven]

I am guessing you know about the self-paced omnibus primary internet special that is running right now? I am interested as well but am actually struggling with the exact same decision, albeit with a 8th grader and 10th grader and different concerns questions?

 

And btw, I am not really clear on what Omnibus entails exactly, neither their new primary offering and their other offerings. But I have scanned it many times and have a friend who has been doing it.

 

Omnibus or MFW AHL?

 

Lisa J

===

[Lugrita]

My daughter did this in her junior year and she did it very independently. But, she's a self-motivated student if that has any bearing on it.

 

That is very helpful! Did you use just the books, or did she do the video classes/self-paced program? I am sure that it wouldn't work well for my second child because he's not that kid, but I do see it working well for my oldest son and my youngest two children, and it's very tempting.

 

I am guessing you know about the self-paced omnibus primary internet special that is running right now? I am interested as well but am actually struggling with the exact same decision, albeit with a 8th grader and 10th grader and different concerns questions?

And btw, I am not really clear on what Omnibus entails exactly, neither their new primary offering and their other offerings. But I have scanned it many times and have a friend who has been doing it.

Omnibus or MFW AHL?

Lisa J

===

 

 

I didn't know about the self-paced Omnibus at all, actually - I looked it up after reading your post. It looks wonderful, but I didn't plan on spending more after buying the materials...I don't know that we can do it. I will figure it out, though.

 

But first, I am wondering the same thing that you are: what exactly does it entail? I have the Veritas catalog, I've looked at the site, I've googled, and still the only thing that I really know is the book list (which I ooey-gooey love!). But I have no real idea of what is done with it, and I cannot find that information anywhere. What kind of writing is involved, and how much? What exactly is the parent's role in all of it? I am afraid to jump into something when I don't know what it entails.

 

But when I look at it, I love it so much more than MFW. The appeal of MFW is that it looks very safe, independent, and doable regardless of my health circumstances - while still being a solid, meaty program.

[SorrelZG]

I'm sorry of this is a really stupid question but, have you seen the preview of the Omnibus III book on Google books? It seemed like it would be helpful because its quite large but perhaps it doesn't provide the kind of info you are looking for/needing.

[Lugrita]

I'm sorry of this is a really stupid question but, have you seen the preview of the Omnibus III book on Google books? It seemed like it would be helpful because its quite large but perhaps it doesn't provide the kind of info you are looking for/needing.

 

 

That's not a stupid question at all - I haven't seen it, but I will look now! Thank you!

[Kelly1730]

My daughter just used the books. This was in 2008/2009 before the video classes, back in the stone-age:)

[Mountainmama]

My son did this without me - however, I required very few questions. I provided the books and the omnibus. He kept a daily reading journal instead of doing questions. I found he sometimes used the questions as ideas for his own writing. We also used spielvogel as indicated in omnibus. We added in a few movies/audios to make the load a bit lighter.

[Musicmom]

We've used Omnibus II and III. I have no experience with MFW, so I have no idea how it compares. I also have no experience with the video Omnibus class (new to me!)--we just used the text and teacher CD.

 

Omnibus, as we used it, is not teacher intensive. It can be done almost completely independently by the student, but it's best if there's parental involvement/oversight. I mostly oversaw the scheduling and assignments, and participated in the discussions. I didn't really "teach"--I let the text do that--I just helped provide another adult (or parental) perspective on the questions.

 

Here's how Omnibus is set up: For each book, there is an opening essay in the text that gives background information, a summary & setting analysis and a worldview analysis (warning: do not have your child read the summary if the book is a novel--the summaries are very detailed and give away the ending!!) This is then followed by several "sessions" and the reading assignments from the book. There is a Prelude session on the opening essay, then the first reading assignment, then Session 1 and the next reading assignment, etc.

 

The sessions are of different types--there are Recitations (answer recall questions on the reading), Discussions (a central discussion question followed by text analysis, cultural analysis and Biblical analysis questions, and an essay prompt), Activities (such as a debate), Writing (and progymnasmata), Analysis (poetry analysis, or make charts comparing worldviews for example), and Evaluations (tests).

 

It's best if you can do the Discussion sessions with your dc, so he has someone to discuss with. This takes about 45 min-1 hr. It's ideal if you have also read the book--you'll be able to contribute more of your perspective to the discussion--but not essential. The teacher CD has answers to all the questions, plus the author's take on the discussion questions, so there's at least one other "voice" in the conversation who is familiar with the book. Realistically, I was only able to read one or two of the books, and I relied on the teacher CD answers for the rest. If necessary, the student can just read the answers to the discussions, but they may not get as much out of it that way. It is also a good idea to allow your dc to answer the questions in the discussion sessions orally--writing them all out could be overwhelming.

 

All the other session types can be done independently. You'll want to look over them ahead of time though, to make sure each session is worth the time it will take (some of the activities for example are fairly involved. It is fine to skip sessions, to just read through them, or to modify them to suit your dc's needs.)

 

The primary books are scheduled to have 5 sessions a week--so one per day. So a book that's scheduled for 3 weeks will have 15 sessions/reading assignments. The secondary books are scheduled to have 3 sessions a week. So a secondary book scheduled to take 2 weeks will have 6 sessions/reading assignments.

 

On average, I'd say the sessions alone take about 1 hour each to complete (some will be less, if your dc is a fast worker; some will be more, if he struggles with a writing assignment for example.) The time necessary for the reading assignment will be in addition to this--anywhere from 1-2 hours depending on your dc's reading speed (and ability to focus! :)) There will also be additional time needed if your dc is following along in a history spine.

 

There is a schedule in the back of the Omnibus text that lays out the order of the books (and the # of weeks to spend on each over 36 weeks.) Primary and secondary books are scheduled simultaneously, so you can see that if you do ALL of the books, your dc will be doing 8 sessions per week! That could be pretty intense. (There are also studies of Bible books (about 4?) included in the text, and these are not included on the master schedule.)

 

We never did all the books--I just chose the ones I thought were most important and we focussed on those (and we skipped the Bible studies.)

 

On the whole, I really liked Omnibus and thought it was excellent. My children really enjoyed it as well and got quite a bit out of it. I would just advise that you not try to do everything, but be selective, so that you keep the workload reasonable and have some buffer. Also, though the student can be quite independent (which is very nice!), do keep tabs on their progress, because it's easy for them to get bogged down if they perceive a session/assignment or reading as particularly difficult (this happened to a friend). You'll want to be able to help them over any humps.

 

I hope this helps!

 

 

 

 

[Lugrita]

My daughter just used the books. This was in 2008/2009 before the video classes, back in the stone-age:)

 

Ha! Thank you - that's helpful info. I prefer to do it with just the books, simply for financial reasons.

 

My son did this without me - however, I required very few questions. I provided the books and the omnibus. He kept a daily reading journal instead of doing questions. I found he sometimes used the questions as ideas for his own writing. We also used spielvogel as indicated in omnibus. We added in a few movies/audios to make the load a bit lighter.

 

 

I appreciate this post, as I have been wondering how to play around with it to lighten the load a bit.

[Lugrita]

We've used Omnibus II and III. I have no experience with MFW, so I have no idea how it compares. I also have no experience with the video Omnibus class (new to me!)--we just used the text and teacher CD.

 

Omnibus, as we used it, is not teacher intensive. It can be done almost completely independently by the student, but it's best if there's parental involvement/oversight. I mostly oversaw the scheduling and assignments, and participated in the discussions. I didn't really "teach"--I let the text do that--I just helped provide another adult (or parental) perspective on the questions.

 

Here's how Omnibus is set up: For each book, there is an opening essay in the text that gives background information, a summary & setting analysis and a worldview analysis (warning: do not have your child read the summary if the book is a novel--the summaries are very detailed and give away the ending!!) This is then followed by several "sessions" and the reading assignments from the book. There is a Prelude session on the opening essay, then the first reading assignment, then Session 1 and the next reading assignment, etc.

 

The sessions are of different types--there are Recitations (answer recall questions on the reading), Discussions (a central discussion question followed by text analysis, cultural analysis and Biblical analysis questions, and an essay prompt), Activities (such as a debate), Writing (and progymnasmata), Analysis (poetry analysis, or make charts comparing worldviews for example), and Evaluations (tests).

 

It's best if you can do the Discussion sessions with your dc, so he has someone to discuss with. This takes about 45 min-1 hr. It's ideal if you have also read the book--you'll be able to contribute more of your perspective to the discussion--but not essential. The teacher CD has answers to all the questions, plus the author's take on the discussion questions, so there's at least one other "voice" in the conversation who is familiar with the book. Realistically, I was only able to read one or two of the books, and I relied on the teacher CD answers for the rest. If necessary, the student can just read the answers to the discussions, but they may not get as much out of it that way. It is also a good idea to allow your dc to answer the questions in the discussion sessions orally--writing them all out could be overwhelming.

 

All the other session types can be done independently. You'll want to look over them ahead of time though, to make sure each session is worth the time it will take (some of the activities for example are fairly involved. It is fine to skip sessions, to just read through them, or to modify them to suit your dc's needs.)

 

The primary books are scheduled to have 5 sessions a week--so one per day. So a book that's scheduled for 3 weeks will have 15 sessions/reading assignments. The secondary books are scheduled to have 3 sessions a week. So a secondary book scheduled to take 2 weeks will have 6 sessions/reading assignments.

 

On average, I'd say the sessions alone take about 1 hour each to complete (some will be less, if your dc is a fast worker; some will be more, if he struggles with a writing assignment for example.) The time necessary for the reading assignment will be in addition to this--anywhere from 1-2 hours depending on your dc's reading speed (and ability to focus! :)) There will also be additional time needed if your dc is following along in a history spine.

 

There is a schedule in the back of the Omnibus text that lays out the order of the books (and the # of weeks to spend on each over 36 weeks.) Primary and secondary books are scheduled simultaneously, so you can see that if you do ALL of the books, your dc will be doing 8 sessions per week! That could be pretty intense. (There are also studies of Bible books (about 4?) included in the text, and these are not included on the master schedule.)

 

We never did all the books--I just chose the ones I thought were most important and we focussed on those (and we skipped the Bible studies.)

 

On the whole, I really liked Omnibus and thought it was excellent. My children really enjoyed it as well and got quite a bit out of it. I would just advise that you not try to do everything, but be selective, so that you keep the workload reasonable and have some buffer. Also, though the student can be quite independent (which is very nice!), do keep tabs on their progress, because it's easy for them to get bogged down if they perceive a session/assignment or reading as particularly difficult (this happened to a friend). You'll want to be able to help them over any humps.

 

I hope this helps!

 

This helps a ton!! Thank you so, so much for going to so much trouble to give so much detail - I am so very thankful for your post! I have been reading the preview in Google books and I've felt a mixture of love and concern...as a student, I would have loved Omnibus so much! But I want to be careful not to overwhelm my son. I do think that we would have to cut some of the books in order to do the program well, and I'm really thankful to know that you and others have done that. But you gave me so much more useful information than what I was able to read in the preview - thank you!!

[Musicmom]

 

 

This helps a ton!! Thank you so, so much for going to so much trouble to give so much detail - I am so very thankful for your post! I have been reading the preview in Google books and I've felt a mixture of love and concern...as a student, I would have loved Omnibus so much! But I want to be careful not to overwhelm my son. I do think that we would have to cut some of the books in order to do the program well, and I'm really thankful to know that you and others have done that. But you gave me so much more useful information than what I was able to read in the preview - thank you!!

 

You're welcome! :) I'm so glad it's helpful. I've spent so many summers poring over catalog/website descriptions and stressing out over curriculum choices, that I'm happy to provide extra information when I can to help out! :)

[Lugrita]

 

 

You're welcome! :) I'm so glad it's helpful. I've spent so many summers poring over catalog/website descriptions and stressing out over curriculum choices, that I'm happy to provide extra information when I can to help out! :)

 

I really can't thank you enough. One of my best friends was on the fence as well (Omnibus looks amazing and intimidating at first glance), and your detailed answer helped us both so much. I'm very sure about doing it now, and my son and I are both very excited about it!

 

Another question for you or for anyone that doesn't mind me being such a bother (I'm so sorry):

if they do the Omnibus writing assignments and (light) additional IEW, that rounds off a full English credit, in addition to the history and theology credits that they get by completing a level of Omnibus, right?

[Musicmom]

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread to see your question until now. Omnibus writing isn't systematic (or all that frequent), so yes, I think you would want to round it out with IEW or another writing curriculum for a complete English credit (I always had another writing curriculum going at the same time. For ds it was IEW.)

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that Omnibus does not cover literary analysis. It might touch on a concept here or there, but that's it. Their focus is worldview analysis. You might consider adding in a book called Essential Literary Terms, by Sharon Hamilton (a Norton Guide). This book is recommended by SWB, and if I remember correctly, she recommends studying it for 1/2 hour per week, summarizing the concepts in a notebook, and then looking for those elements in the literary works you're reading. If you want your dc to write any literary analysis essays, you'll have to find some outside guidance for that as well (IEW's Windows to the World is good--but then, it's a whole other curriculum) and assign them yourself.

[PeterPan]

 You might consider adding in a book called Essential Literary Terms, by Sharon Hamilton (a Norton Guide). This book is recommended by SWB, and if I remember correctly, she recommends studying it for 1/2 hour per week, summarizing the concepts in a notebook, and then looking for those elements in the literary works you're reading. 

You can get supplemental materials for this from Norton.  You just have to register for a teacher account and jump through a few hoops as they verify you're a homeschooler.  Go here and click For Instructors.  Essential Literary Terms | W. W. Norton & Company

[Lugrita]

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread to see your question until now. Omnibus writing isn't systematic (or all that frequent), so yes, I think you would want to round it out with IEW or another writing curriculum for a complete English credit (I always had another writing curriculum going at the same time. For ds it was IEW.)Another thing to keep in mind is that Omnibus does not cover literary analysis. It might touch on a concept here or there, but that's it. Their focus is worldview analysis. You might consider adding in a book called Essential Literary Terms, by Sharon Hamilton (a Norton Guide). This book is recommended by SWB, and if I remember correctly, she recommends studying it for 1/2 hour per week, summarizing the concepts in a notebook, and then looking for those elements in the literary works you're reading. If you want your dc to write any literary analysis essays, you'll have to find some outside guidance for that as well (IEW's Windows to the World is good--but then, it's a whole other curriculum) and assign them yourself.

  

You can get supplemental materials for this from Norton.  You just have to register for a teacher account and jump through a few hoops as they verify you're a homeschooler.  Go here and click For Instructors.  Essential Literary Terms | W. W. Norton & Company

Thank you both so much - I so appreciate your responses and insight about Omnibus. I have my IEW materials ready, but our Omnibus materials haven't yet arrived so I've still felt very unsure if/how it would all work together - you have been a great help, Musicmom, in clearing up those muddy waters for me. :)

 

OhElizabeth, thank you for that link - very helpful!