Need advice: Algebra for my 6th grader?!

[CarrieF]

My 11.5 yo son has always been ahead of the game, but now that he is entering 6th grade and ready for algebra 1 I am a little nervous. Not about how he'll do or how I'll manage; I am nervous about what math he'll do going forward, especially for high school credit reporting purposes. He is my oldest, so this is all new territory. I'd just like to know if it is wise to have him doing algebra 1 now (although I really don't know what else we WOULD do?!) and how to handle high school credits when we get to that point - will this class even count at that point?!

Any advice from those who have faced this situation would be greatly appreciated!

[8filltheheart]

There is no right answer. It really is going to depend on the individual. My rising 12th grader took his first alg course at age 10. It has not been a problem for him at all. I am in the middle of writing all of his course descriptions (his transcript was already up to date) for his college applications this fall. He will have completed 6 college level math courses (cal 1 up) by the time he graduates next May.

 

Our ds was definitely ready to move forward. He was the type of child that taught himself the concept of multiplication through observation when he was 6. By the time he hit geometry, he was explaining things to me better than they were explained in his textbook. By the time he was in 8th grade, I no longer understood anything that he was saying when it came to math and physics (his passion.)

 

Not all kids are really ready to move forward at younger ages. Some struggle with the abstractions of higher level math.

 

You might also want to read The Calculus Trap which articulates the concerns of rushing forward to higher level maths. http://www.artofprob...ge=calculustrap

 

With our ds, there was no rushing. It was his natural progression. I have seen kids that have been rushed......it is not a pretty outcome in the long term. However, simply b/c they are doing higher level math at a younger age does not mean they are being rushed. Mathematical ability has to be factored in.....not simply age. You have to decide where your ds falls. :)

 

Oh.....I forgot to mention, if you go this route, you should plan on having 4 yrs of math on his high school transcript regardless. (so math during 9th-12th grades.)

[regentrude]

My son did algebra 1 in 6th grade. We used AoPS and spent 1 years on the algebra1 material, and another year on the second half of the text. We also took a detour into counting and probability, and thus he has only just started geometry, going into 9th grade in the fall.

There is plenty of math - you are not "using it up" if your son is ready for algebra now. Starting early, if he is ready, will allow you to use a strong program, to take plenty of time to cement all concepts (never rush math!), to afford the time for some areas of math that are not typically studied in school, and to be still a bit ahead of the curve and get to calculus in high school.

It also allows you to slow down at any point when you find he needs more time and maturity.

Good luck.

 

ETA: You should plan to have him study math every year, 9th through 12th grade. Thus, he will have his required math credits, even if 6th grade algebra does not appear on the transcript. some parents list math courses before 9th grade with a special note; you can cross this bridge when you get there.

[Julie of KY]

I also use AoPS. They offer lots of math to choose from beyond the typical progression. I would keep your son progressing in math and make sure that you remember that you still have to do more math in high school.

[NittanyJen]

Typically, colleges will disregard any math taken before 9th grade, but it's okay! If he's ready for algebra now, let him go for it! As a PP noted, you will not run out of math that he can take by 12th grade :). You will cross that bridge when he gets there, but trust me, my husband is a math professor, and with a PhD in mathematics from Cornell, there are many math courses he has still never even taken in his lifetime! Your son cannot run out of options.

 

And it's okay to take courses beyond algebra/geometry/algebra II/trig & analysis (now rebranded as "pre-calculus") and/or calc I in high school! You can take linear algebra, second or third years of calculus, numerical analysis, statistics, and more!

 

Let him enjoy it if that is how he has fun :)

[CarrieF]

Once again, the Hive comes through! Thank you so much. I feel relieved and ready to move forward. He's so excited and ready to go, but I've been the one dragging my feet. Thank you for the reassurance. : )

One question: what is AoPS? Guessing it is 'Algebra of' something?!

NittanyJen: especially like/appreciate your closing comment as math is exactly how he has fun! Love it.

[8filltheheart]

 

One question: what is AoPS? Guessing it is 'Algebra of' something?!

NittanyJen: especially like/appreciate your closing comment as math is exactly how he has fun! Love it.

 

AoPS is Art of Problem Solving. The company was started by the individual who wrote the article I linked above. He started writing the textbooks for gifted math students whose abilities and educational needs were not being met in the traditional math textbook classroom. The books are not written in the typical present how to solve this type of math problem, work through 50 examples following a similar pattern, work through some harder problems using the same concept, teach the next concept, etc.

 

The books have the students construct concepts via proofs so that they discover why problems are solved the way they are. It is like a continual mathematical conversation vs. direct instruction. My ds has described the approach in the past like having a map where you can't really see the map bc most of the image is so foggy. As you work through the problems the image becomes clearer and clearer and then you understand the proof and no longer need the map to get where you are going because you built the road and you know the path intimately. The level of mathematical reasoning and understanding the approach helps students achieve is rock solid.

 

That said, not all kids like the approach. Some kids want and/or need step by step instruction. My dd does not like the AOPS teaching style at all. She is also a strong math student and is only a yr behind her brotherin sequence. She likes Foerster's teaching. His texts are full of real world application problems and they provide solid applied math skills......whereas AoPS is more theoretical in its focus.

 

Beyond math textboo for alg, if your ds loves math for fun, you might want to look into math competitions like Math Counts (a 6th-8th grade competition ). Or see if there are any math circles in your area. I'm pretty sure AoPS has links for both on their website.

 

If you search the forums for AoPS, you'll find 100s of discussions. The logic board has several really in-depth ones.

[HSinNH]

DD12 is almost finished with Lial's Algebra1 and is in 6th grade. I asked her about AoPS, showed her what it was like, and she declined, even though she would have been more than capable of completing the program.

 

She had worked through all her elementary level math and pre-algebra, and was ready for the next step. I will tell you that she did have a hard time at first understanding it, as it is more abstract. But, after a few weeks, she figured it out.

 

Her goal is to finish Algebra 1 & 2 and Geometry by the time she enters high school. She is very motivated to make this happen, so we will see. I guess my advice would be to follow your child's lead. They will let you know what they are ready for.

[CarrieF]

8FilltheHeart: THANK YOU!!! That is a wonderful explanation of AoPS. From what you describe it sounds like it would be a GREAT fit for my son! He enjoyed the LoF books - the tone and the creativity/non textbook feel. I just looked at the AoPS books at amazon and am guessing that the 'Introduction to Algebra' is the equivalent of a regular Algebra 1 text?! Is there a better place to purchase these books & solutions manuals?

Funny that you also mention Foerster's because that is the text I purchased for him to start with. I still like the "real life" approach, so will probably have him do both (alternating, of course) as I think it is always good to approach things from different angles.

Thanks SO much for your help and advice! I really appreciate it.

[regentrude]

I just looked at the AoPS books at amazon and am guessing that the 'Introduction to Algebra' is the equivalent of a regular Algebra 1 text?! Is there a better place to purchase these books & solutions manuals?

 

AoPS Intro to Algebra covers the content of a traditional algebra course in chapters 1-13 (or thereabouts, depending on the rigor of the traditional course you compare). The remaining chapters 14-22 cover content that is normally taught in algebra 2. It is a very meaty book, and I would recommend that a young student go slowly and plan on taking two years. It can be done in one year; my very ambitious DD did so in her 7th grade and worked through the summer to complete the entire book, but taking more time is not a bad thing either.

 

I have not seen another place to purchase the book and solution manual - you might try looking in the classified section of these boards. I always buy directly from AoPS because I am happy to support the company that creates these fantastic products.

[8filltheheart]

I purchase directly from AoPS.

 

FWIW, I do not think that for most students that AoPS needs to be combined with any other resource b/c it is very challenging by itself. Using Foerster for further explanation if they don't understand certain things might be an option. AoPS also has their Alcumus problems that students can work through.

[wapiti]

I just looked at the AoPS books at amazon and am guessing that the 'Introduction to Algebra' is the equivalent of a regular Algebra 1 text?! Is there a better place to purchase these books & solutions manuals?

 

It's usually cheaper to buy directly from AoPS than to buy from Amazon. Do poke around the site and note that Alcumus (we use this for review) and the videos are free.

[CarrieF]

I really appreciate all of your thoughts and input - so helpful! The resources on the AoPS website are amazing. WOW! What rock have I been living under that I had never heard of this before Friday?!

Thanks to all!

[boscopup]

We're about to start prealgebra in 4th, so we could be doing algebra in 5th. If that happens,I have a possible route planned that would have him doing calculus in 11th or 12th. If it's 11th, he can take calc 3/diff eq as dual enrollment in 12th. Either way, he'll have 4 years of math in high school without having to go deep into college level math if he chooses to not pursue a STEM career. My brother did the dual enrollment route in 12th grade as mentioned above, and he ended up a history major. :D

[CarrieF]

DS is reading through Prealgebra after he almost aced the pre-test and stalled out on a couple of things in the post-test. I was proud of him for bringing the test to me and telling me he thought he'd better do a few of the chapters in prealgebra before starting algebra. :hurray: (This is a young man who has had little to no experience with "not getting" something, so this was a huge learning moment!) We're both looking forward to more AoPS - THANK YOU, HIVE MIND!!! I am SO thankful for the vast amounts of wisdom, knowledge, and experience available through this forum board. :cheers2:

[Lilaclady]

That's great

[kohlby]

We discovered AoPS for Alg I for my oldest and it's been wonderful!  It was definitely a transition, as he also was used to math being super easy.  I explained it like our muscles.  That if we exercise a lot then it's hard and our muscles get sore.  But our muscles get stronger and there's more gain, more growth.  Since he's a math wiz, he's also Mr. Logical, so that explanation really helped him.  I had to sit by his side the entire time at the start of AoPS, but he was doing it independently within a few months.  There were a few tears at the start - and several times that I had to send him to go on his pogo stick to work out frustrations.  He was a younger student, barely past his 9th b-day when he started Intro to Alg, so he was borderline on the maturity needed for AoPS.  But he got there within a few months and learned so much and continues to learn.  Even with the struggle initially, he told me he was glad he was homeschooled since it meant he was challenged in math. 

 

As for high school credit courses, I'm keeping tract of all high school level courses and will decide later what to put on his transcript.  He will still do four years of math in high school.  But I'm not so sure about leaving off all pre-9th grade math courses.  He has Alg I done and Intro to Number Theory almost done.  He'll have Alg II done by the end of this school year, which is 5th grade.  Then he may do Geometry in 6th grade.  Then we'll figure it out from there.  I don't know his path yet.  He may go to a public boarding math/science school - that is only 11th/12th grade and has college credit math courses.  He may graduate from high school early.  (I've been opposed to grade skipping him yet in case he decides on the boarding school route).  He may do dual enrollment for pre-engineering.  He may just continue to have rigorous work and graduate on time.  I don't know.  I feel it's too early to know what path he should take.  He's too young to really know other thank knowing that he wants to be an engineer. 

[kohlby]

 

It is a very meaty book, and I would recommend that a young student go slowly and plan on taking two years. It can be done in one year

 

 

Also consider using Intro to Number Theory or Intro to Probability between Alg I and Alg II.  Though my child did great with Alg I, there were two small sections that he struggled with - two sections that even after I explained it, I don't think he fully understood it.  He was able to stumble through the problems, but I don't think it was full mastery.  So, we took a break after Alg I for Intro to Number Theory.  It is not nearly as difficult, but he loves it since it's more like playing with numbers to him.  We'll go back into the book for Alg II once Intro to Number Theory is finished.  This is an easy way to keep moving forward and learning if your child needs a little more time for math maturity before continuing on.

[Guest ella.fisher]

My son is also in 6th grade. He is becoming quite strong in algebra. There are many good books which can make him understand algebra very easily, One book I knw is Intermediate Algebra (6th Edition): Elayn Martin. You can try with this.

[Halcyon]

My oldest will be doing algebra in 6th, and my guess is younger will do t in 5th. youngerhas already begun Real World Algebra by Zaccaro as a fun supplement in 2nd. We have decided on Tablet Class math after much deliberation. We were leaning towards Dolciani, as my siggie still says, but I think we will try Talet Class for more interaction and interest.