"You can homeschool kindergarten? Really?

[ondreeuh]

My 5 year old had an appt. with our psychiatrist today for his ADHD. She always forgets that I homeschool my boys, and every visit she asks what their teachers are saying, what classes will be like next year, etc. Today she asked twice about my 5 year old's class for next year. After I reminded her (again) that I'll homeschool, she said, "For kindergarten? I didn't know you could homeschool for kindergarten. That's news to me." Meanwhile, my son was sitting next to me, silently reading a reader (3.5 grade level) to himself. I think we'll be OK with kindergarten!

 

 

She is from Germany, where homeschooling is illegal, but we live in an area where homeschooling is very common. Why wouldn't I be able to homeschool for kindergarten?

[violamama]

Weird. Hope she's a better listener when it counts in his sessions.

 

I think some people think it's only a last-ditch option...?

[HS Mom in NC]

My question is, if it's important enough to ask about school, why isn't it important enough to write it down and keep mental track of the child's schooling information in her head? Is she just mentally sloppy at her job? Is she also sloppy about her thinking? Does she really think a country that allows homeschooling at all forbids it in K? She just doesn't sound like a very smart psychiatrist-especially since she had to ask the same question twice in one appointment and couldn't keep it in her head. Or maybe she is smart, but she has ADD, got distracted while you were answering and needs to find a professional to help her create strategies to focus.

 

I'm actually the kind of person who WOULD ask, "You asked me that already. Do you need to take better notes so you can better process that information and incorporate it into your diagnosis and recommendations?" or "Why did you ask that and then not listen well enough to remember? Isn't that important?" But then I was raised to view doctors as my employee or contractor to be sacked when they're not doing well the job I pay them for. There are plenty of other doctors out there who could use the work.

[Walking-Iris]

I left a Dr for those very reasons as HomeschoolMominAZ mentioned. My oldest is on the spectrum and I switched to a different dr and my ds has extensive!!! thick!!! charts. And one visit this lady has the gall to turn to me and ask if I ever thought about getting him evaluated????

 

I seriously just reached over and patted his thick chart sitting on her desk and said, "well if you wanted to take the time to read this..." She always forgot we homeschooled, and always asked the tired socialization question each time she was reminded, had another Dr i didn't even know signing my ds's OT reports...just ridiculous.

 

But seriously I've found that most people are clueless about homeschool laws. That's where you educate them. I'm always surprised at how many public school teachers I meet don't realize that compulsory school age in my state is 7. I'm also surprised at how many people in this country seem to think they have zero rights when it comes to their own children. Everyone just assumes you do what "they" tell you and that's the end of it. Goodness, some people assume it's the law to put kids in some sort of preschool.

 

I'm the same way as above poster. I consider the people I take my children to (doctors, dentists, OTs etc) as someone I'm hiring for a service. Way too many people act as though they are authority figures who can't be questioned.

[ondreeuh]

My question is, if it's important enough to ask about school, why isn't it important enough to write it down and keep mental track of the child's schooling information in her head? Is she just mentally sloppy at her job? Is she also sloppy about her thinking? Does she really think a country that allows homeschooling at all forbids it in K? She just doesn't sound like a very smart psychiatrist-especially since she had to ask the same question twice in one appointment and couldn't keep it in her head. Or maybe she is smart, but she has ADD, got distracted while you were answering and needs to find a professional to help her create strategies to focus.

 

I'm actually the kind of person who WOULD ask, "You asked me that already. Do you need to take better notes so you can better process that information and incorporate it into your diagnosis and recommendations?" or "Why did you ask that and then listen well enough to remember? Isn't that important?" But then I was raised to view doctors as my employee or contractor to be sacked when they're not doing well the job I pay them for. There are plenty of other doctors out there who could use the work.

 

I could never in my life say something so rude to a professional that I am working with. I would expect to be marched out the door! And while my husband says I should not feel the need to defend the doctor, I do feel like by insulting her you are also insulting me for having the bad judgment to see her. I actually wrote a whole defense of her - but there is no point, as your opinion doesn't matter to me anyway. Suffice it to say I am satisfied with her medical care.

 

I am now thinking that she may consider kindergarten to be a play-based non-academic year, and that may have been why she was wondering how I could homeschool K. If K (in her mind) is all about playing with other kids in a classroom, then how can that be done at home?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Ondreeuh, I "liked" your post before the edit, when it was about your defense of your very good doctor and what you've concluded about why she might think as she does. That was a very sensible and informative post. I'm afraid I had to "unlike" after the edit because the quarrel with the other poster has nothing to do with me, but I hope you all can resolve it.

[ondreeuh]

I'm sorry for "quarreling" - after I posted my original defense, my husband came home and I read him the previous poster's reply to show him how brash people online can be He was stunned that I felt the need to even defend my choice in doctors - so I perhaps overreacted by taking back my defense. But really - my original post here had nothing to do with questioning my doctor's competence, so I felt the judgments and snark to be really misapplied.

[Walking-Iris]

I'm sorry for "quarreling" - after I posted my original defense, my husband came home and I read him the previous poster's reply to show him how brash people online can be He was stunned that I felt the need to even defend my choice in doctors - so I perhaps overreacted by taking back my defense. But really - my original post here had nothing to do with questioning my doctor's competence, so I felt the judgments and snark to be really misapplied.

 

 

Um...I don't think anyone was judging your choice in doctors. Plenty of people have had to switch doctors because of similar situations.

 

Honestly, if you don't want replies about a doctor....don't post things about a doctor.

 

Your original post does make it seem as though you were bothered with having to remind her of some basic info......

[MinivanMom]

I could never in my life say something so rude to a professional that I am working with. I would expect to be marched out the door! And while my husband says I should not feel the need to defend the doctor, I do feel like by insulting her you are also insulting me for having the bad judgment to see her. I actually wrote a whole defense of her - but there is no point, as your opinion doesn't matter to me anyway. Suffice it to say I am satisfied with her medical care.

 

I am now thinking that she may consider kindergarten to be a play-based non-academic year, and that may have been why she was wondering how I could homeschool K. If K (in her mind) is all about playing with other kids in a classroom, then how can that be done at home?

I don't think it was an insult at all. We have all chosen a doctor (or dentist, optometrist, speech therapist, etc.) at some point who didn't work out. It isn't bad judgment; it's just life. Someone can look very qualified on paper or be very good at their job, but not have a great bedside manner or perhaps have some personal quirks. I have changed doctors myself. Live and learn. If it isn't something that bothers you enough to change doctors then that's fine too. I agree that the comment was probably due to cultural issues with kindergarten. Someone who is German is going to struggle with the concept of homeschooling to begin with, but my understanding is that a German kindergarten is a play-based school rooted very strongly in the social experience. Telling her that you homeschool kindergarten would be the equivalent of saying you homeschool play dates or homeschool team soccer. It just doesn't quite compute based on the German definition of kindergarten. My dentist is German. I adore her, but I'm always careful to avoid mentioning homeschooling due to the cultural differences. In the context of small talk during an appointment it's not worth getting into.

[regentrude]

If she is from Germany, she comes from a country where "kindergarten" is considered (voluntary!) preschool and where formal mandatory schooling does not begin until age 6 or 7 with 1st grade.

So, the notion of "homeschooling" a five year old must seem strange to her - in Germany that would simply be "parenting".

 

I consider her remark neither a criticism of your abilities nor an insult.

[AimeeM]

My question is, if it's important enough to ask about school, why isn't it important enough to write it down and keep mental track of the child's schooling information in her head? Is she just mentally sloppy at her job? Is she also sloppy about her thinking? Does she really think a country that allows homeschooling at all forbids it in K? She just doesn't sound like a very smart psychiatrist-especially since she had to ask the same question twice in one appointment and couldn't keep it in her head. Or maybe she is smart, but she has ADD, got distracted while you were answering and needs to find a professional to help her create strategies to focus.

 

I'm actually the kind of person who WOULD ask, "You asked me that already. Do you need to take better notes so you can better process that information and incorporate it into your diagnosis and recommendations?" or "Why did you ask that and then listen well enough to remember? Isn't that important?" But then I was raised to view doctors as my employee or contractor to be sacked when they're not doing well the job I pay them for. There are plenty of other doctors out there who could use the work.

Here's the thing. I'm glad my doctor always asks. I'm not so arrogant that I assume he remembers my children better than the dozens upon dozens of others he sees every day. I'm also glad that he's relaxed, comforting, and looking at ME and my CHILDREN during an appointment - not speaking from behind a chart. I'd rather him ask than for him to be cold and avoiding eye contact because he's busy trying not to offend by asking questions, thus spending the visit with his nose in our chart. It's just a question. Is it REALLY that hard to answer?

[AimeeM]

If she is from Germany, she comes from a country where "kindergarten" is considered (voluntary!) preschool and where formal mandatory schooling does not begin until age 6 or 7 with 1st grade.

So, the notion of "homeschooling" a five year old must seem strange to her - in Germany that would simply be "parenting".

 

I consider her remark neither a criticism of your abilities nor an insult.

Bingo.

My husband has colleagues from Germany. Homeschooling is foreign to them on many levels, but they're curious - not rude. I do not consider the doctor's questions rude or inattentive on any level.

[HS Mom in NC]

Here's the thing. I'm glad my doctor always asks. I'm not so arrogant that I assume he remembers my children better than the dozens upon dozens of others he sees every day. I'm also glad that he's relaxed, comforting, and looking at ME and my CHILDREN during an appointment - not speaking from behind a chart. I'd rather him ask than for him to be cold and avoiding eye contact because he's busy trying not to offend by asking questions, thus spending the visit with his nose in our chart. It's just a question. Is it REALLY that hard to answer?

 

I clearly stated that asking twice in the same visit indicates not listening when parent answered a few minutes before. That's not the same thing as remembering details from a previous visit with dozens of children and days, weeks or months in between. And no, the doctor shouldn't read the chart during the appointment, (s)he should have read or scanned it before coming into the room for the visit-that basic, standard protocol.

 

Clearly repeating an answer isn't difficult on the part of the parent-I said absolutely nothing to indicate that it was. The problem was with the thought process and information keeping on behalf of the doctor. These things are essential for providing the best quality evaluations and treatments and when a doctor can't do those things, the chances of getting the best diagnosis and treatment decrease.

[HS Mom in NC]

I could never in my life say something so rude to a professional that I am working with. I would expect to be marched out the door! And while my husband says I should not feel the need to defend the doctor, I do feel like by insulting her you are also insulting me for having the bad judgment to see her. I actually wrote a whole defense of her - but there is no point, as your opinion doesn't matter to me anyway. Suffice it to say I am satisfied with her medical care.

 

I am now thinking that she may consider kindergarten to be a play-based non-academic year, and that may have been why she was wondering how I could homeschool K. If K (in her mind) is all about playing with other kids in a classroom, then how can that be done at home?

 

So you actually think if I disagree with how you doctor collects and processes information in an evaluation and say so, you're being attacked.(?!?!?) I get that you think that, but how you get there is something I can't even follow. If you want to explain that in detail go ahead because I'm genuinely mystified by your statement. If you'd rather skip it then that's fine too.

 

I see a doctor as no different a resource than a curriculum. If I didn't like one I'd chuck and feel perfectly free to specify why I thought it was substandard. If you used and liked that particular curriculum would you consider it a personal attack? What if someone said a particular kind of hsing (traditional, unschooling, Classical CM, Classical Trivium, Classical Mentor Model, Unit Study, etc. ) was better than the kind of hsing you do, do you consider that a personal attack?

 

My SIL is terminally ill (she's 43 and has kids ages 8 and 11.) For 7 years she went to a highly prestigious cancer center for follow ups after beating breast cancer. For 7 years the doctors didn't listen to a series of symptoms she had that were classic signs that her cancer was back. She switched to The Cancer Centers of America and they were horrified that testing wasn't done immediately as each separate symptom showed up. Now she's going to die a horrific death in the next year or two.

 

If only someone had been so "rude" as to question those doctors and why they weren't listening and keeping track of things. The risk of being shown the door immediately would've well worth it. Now her kids and husband, and parents and in-laws and friends are watching her suffer as cancer is eating through her spine and liver and brain.

[ondreeuh]

So you actually think if I disagree with how you doctor collects and processes information in an evaluation and say so, you're being attacked.(?!?!?) I get that you think that, but how you get there is something I can't even follow. If you want to explain that in detail go ahead because I'm genuinely mystified by your statement. If you'd rather skip it then that's fine too.

 

I see a doctor as no different a resource than a curriculum. If I didn't like one I'd chuck and feel perfectly free to specify why I thought it was substandard. If you used and liked that particular curriculum would you consider it a personal attack? What if someone said a particular kind of hsing (traditional, unschooling, Classical CM, Classical Trivium, Classical Mentor Model, Unit Study, etc. ) was better than the kind of hsing you do, do you consider that a personal attack?

 

My SIL is terminally ill (she's 43 and has kids ages 8 and 11.) For 7 years she went to a highly prestigious cancer center for follow ups after beating breast cancer. For 7 years the doctors didn't listen to a series of symptoms she had that were classic signs that her cancer was back. She switched to The Cancer Centers of America and they were horrified that testing wasn't done immediately as each separate symptom showed up. Now she's going to die a horrific death in the next year or two.

 

If only someone had been so "rude" as to question those doctors and why they weren't listening and keeping track of things. The risk of being shown the door immediately would've well worth it. Now her kids and husband, and parents and in-laws and friends are watching her suffer as cancer is eating through her spine and liver and brain.

 

 

OK, I'll bite. You basically said I was seeing an incompetent doctor, and in my opinion, someone who thinks that I would trust a clearly incompetent doctor probably thinks that I myself have bad judgment and am being foolish. So that's where the sense of personal judgment came from. I am very sorry about your SIL and her experience - but to jump and assume my doctor is dangerous because she asks the same question twice in a visit is an unfair jump.

 

This doctor is always running on three tracks. She is observing my child in her office (I bring all 3 kids for back-to-back appts, so she is focusing in on one at a time while the others are providing background "noise") - noting their rates of speech, fidgeting, persistence with tasks, pressured speech, moods, etc. She is also asking questions of me AND she is also referring to her extensive notes on the child which she has to access through her computer. If I've called in, she has to find the record of the phone call in a separate place from her office notes ... so I give her a lot of credit for simultaneously doing a number of things. She gathers all of this information to make a quick and accurate assessment - and she has been incredibly spot-on with her observations and identified red flags that weren't even on my radar - and that proved extremely important shortly after. She very, very good at medication management. She KNOWS her meds and has a reputation in the nearest city for being excellent.

 

I have had plenty of other doctors who only look at the chart and come in to give me their pre-planned treatment without considering the patient. And I've had others who only look at the patient at that moment and don't consider other factors. She does it all, and sometimes that means she doesn't "record" something I've said because she is multi-tasking - but I am glad she asks again rather than just letting it go.

 

Also - it is not so easy for everyone to just drop a doctor on a whim. She is the only doctor my insurance covers within an hour's drive, and since I have to physically pick up scripts a couple times a month, I'm not willing to go further since this works. One of my kids has to see a specialist for which there is no covered doctor in the STATE. I have to pay out of pocket for that one. It would be nice to have a lot of doctors to choose from, but that is not always reality. I am capable of being a very good advocate when I need to be, so it feels silly to be told I'm not handling this right.

[Tanikit]

It sounds like everyone needs to step back a bit in this post and imagine why the other person said what they said -

 

I think your doctor sounds pretty normal, but that is because I come from a country where a certain section of society thinks that school is essential and that children will turn out "bad" if they stay at home so we get constant comments about it and my DD is asked her age and when she will be starting school (according to them she should have started a couple years back and she is only 5 now). I am also a veterinarian and have to ask some questions twice - sometimes to check whether the answer changes (as in are you SURE your dog only got bitten yesterday? - meaning this wound looks much older) and sometimes because it is an important question and I want to make sure I have things straight in my head and sometimes because I was examining the animal and was paying more attention to that than to the answer the person was giving me and need to check again.

 

On the other hand a post on these boards that is titled: You can homeschool kindergarten, really? is likely to bring up the responses you got - it is unlikely a personal attack on your choice of doctor - more likely someone trying to empathise with you and say that that is a silly thing to say - which is what is implied with the title in many people's heads. When you are in a homeschooling group you often think that everyone should know about homeschooling and how it works in your country. I have a feeling many people in my country are totally clueless that they can even homeschool - that it is legal - and they would never even have thought about who does so or whether it is a good idea.

 

Nonetheless this post made me smile - I am halfway through homeschooling K and it really isn't that difficult, but it also isn't a walk in the park either. I imagine the title of your post could have been said in any number of ways - questioning, amazement, surprise, disgust, incredulity, fear, humour and goodness knows what else - it all depends on what your doctor felt and that is not entirely apparent in the original post which may explain some of the reactions.

[Staceyshoe]

I think that many people view one (if not THE) major objective of kindergarten as acclimation to the school setting, learning classroom norms, and fitting in socially with a group of 5 year olds. They tend to view the main objective of later grades as academic. From that standpoint, I can see where a person would wonder how you can acclimate a child to the classroom without being in school. Many people just don't think outside the box they were brought up in. (Obviously, my values of what is important at age 5 differ from what is stated above since we are homeschooling K.)

[mathmarm]

 

My 5 year old had an appt. with our psychiatrist today for his ADHD. She always forgets that I homeschool my boys, and every visit she asks what their teachers are saying, what classes will be like next year, etc. Today she asked twice about my 5 year old's class for next year. After I reminded her (again) that I'll homeschool, she said, "For kindergarten? I didn't know you could homeschool for kindergarten. That's news to me." Meanwhile, my son was sitting next to me, silently reading a reader (3.5 grade level) to himself. I think we'll be OK with kindergarten!

 

 

 

She is from Germany, where homeschooling is illegal, but we live in an area where homeschooling is very common. Why wouldn't I be able to homeschool for kindergarten?

 

Maybe she doesn't put much academic stock in Kindergarten? Or she didn't realize that it is compulsory in your state and thus needed to be "homeschooled"

[shawthorne44]

I've seen several incompetent doctors. Before I had more ... spine I even put up with it during the visit. Often you can't tell until they do something ...off.

Doesn't mean I am incompetent. So, I don't think anyone was saying you are incompetent.

 

I would expect a doctor to skim the chart before the office visit. I would also expect to not be asked the same thing twice.

[Courtney_Ostaff]

My husband has colleagues from Germany. Homeschooling is foreign to them on many levels, but they're curious - not rude. I do not consider the doctor's questions rude or inattentive on any level.

 

 

Heh. My sister-in-law is German, and she just jumps my case every time I mention homeschooling.

 

"How is this working? Are only geniuses allowed to homeschool their kids? I can imagine elementary but anything higher? When I am thinking of everything I learned in school I would never dare think I could teach all that. My teachers went to 5years of classes at university and then were each only allowed to teach the two maximal 3 subjects they studied. I could never teach the math I had at school (I probably wouldn't even pass the final exams I had back then) or French, Latin, Englisch, even chemistry I would be doubtful (even though this was part of my PhD). Do they hire professionals? What about languages? It's illegal to homeschool here because nobody has the training to cover a full curriculum by themselves."

 

Blah, blah, blah, every time I mentioned homeschooling!

 

I got tired of it, so I eventually said:

 

"1) In order to home school in West Virginia, you must file a notice of intent with the local educational organization, and then present the local educational organization with a report by a certified teacher saying that your child has made progress throughout the school year. It works all the way through high school. In my local county alone, about 7%, or 700 children are homeschooled. Most parents are quite particular how about much they teach, and in fact, often choose to homeschool because they can teach more, faster than their children would learn in a public school. 2) I would suggest that academics has nothing to do with it. According to the "Baden Wurttemberg Administrative Court in 2006, The State’s constitutional obligation to provide children with education was on an equal footing [with the rights of the parents]. The court stressed that the decisive point was not whether or not home education was equally effective as primary school education, but that compulsory school attendance require children from all backgrounds in society to gather together." "...interferences with the applicants’ fundamental rights were also proportionate given the general interest of society to avoid the emergence of parallel societies based on separate philosophical convictions." http://hudoc.echr.co...:["001-76925"]}

 

Amazingly enough, she never replied....

 

On a different note, I doctor shop when I think health is an issue--e.g., when my daughter's dentist left her unattended, awake but under major general sedation, walking around in a room by herself at age three--she could have fallen and busted her skull!

 

As a non-doctor, it's difficult to judge a doctor's expertise, but I often get second opinions about major items like surgery. There's no harm in double-checking that your doctor has a license, and isn't under disciplinary action through the state boards of medicine.

 

If a doctor asked the same question 2x in a 5-min period, I'd definitely be less than happy, and yes, I'd probably assume that either they weren't paying attention the first time, or was assuming I was being dishonest.

 

OTOH, I can understand some disbelief in home schooling. Most people I know are not "down" with it.