s/o Large and possibly unanswerable question.

[Lisa in SC]

It is also sad homeschooled kids that do not care to identify as homeschoolers as they don't want to be associated with some of the things they see around them.

 

There are quality public schools. My daughters attended an excellent public high school. My sons will likely homeschool until graduation, but it won't be because the local high school is substandard. However, there are poor public schools. My children have friends who attend some of them. These kids know the schools they attend are not stellar, and always seem to want to distance themselves from the school they attend. I don't think this is any different from what you stated regarding substandard homeschooling in the quote above. The desire to distance oneself from something one perceives as negative isn't unique to homeschooling.

 

 

[mommymilkies]

My of my clients report doing or having done "the homeschool program". The problem there is that these are criminal justice clients who "caught a case" in public school, got sent to an alternative school and that failed.

These are not "homeschoolers" in the sense I understand the word.

I have worked for the last 3 years in a homeschool enrichment turned private school. We have a lot of formerly homeschoold students. I have been aghast at some of the academic realities. This has challenged and changed my perception of the REAL results of homeschoolers. I used to report and opine stuff about the superior scores of homeschoolers. I no longer do that; I think homeschoolers have done poorly in a percentage they don't want to admit or see.

 

 

This is like saying I've seen a bunch of kids smacked at Walmart, so all parents who go to Walmart are abusive. Now, I have also been scared by some of the educational neglect I've seen among homeschoolers, and I'm not against some regulations. But I've also seen terrible educational neglect from schooled children, and obviously regulations aren't helping there.

[KungFuPanda]

One thing that has been on my mind in regards to this question is the fact that in many states, a child may not see anyone who is a mandated reporter at all, year after year. We take our children to the doctors and the dentist, and to other places where there are mandated reporters, but abusive parents may not. If those parents also homeschool, then there may be no one in their lives who is required to help them if they are being abused. Sure, friends and neighbors *might* (and hopefully will) report them, but maybe not. A child can be invisible as a homeschooler, in a way that a public or private schooled child cannot. So, while CPS does exist to help these children, if no one reports it they do not realize they need to help. CPS seems set up to work with and through a system that uses the public schools as a filter. I am not sure what the answer is, only that I see this as a problem, mainly because children might not get the help they need, but also because of how it can reflect on homeschoolers, the vast number of whom do not abuse their children.

 

 

In my state you do portfolio reviews twice a year. However, you're not required to bring the child . . . just a portfolio with work samples and a 15 minute conversation. You could definitely hide a child for years with this system. Most people have pictures in their portfolios, but I'm not sure if its required.

 

My homeschooling umbrella group does it differently. If you want to review with them, you HAVE to go on one field trip per year. Someone in the group will at least see that the child is alive.

 

Personally, I don't equate a little bit of accountability with slavery. An educator balking at filling in a form, or gathering some work samples makes me a bit suspicious. Compared to homeschooling, a review is soooo easy. If you're actually schooling every day, gathering 5 or 6 samples per subject isn't really a tough thing. I've spent more time on this thread than I have at any single portfolio review.

[mamajudy]

My state has portfolio/evaluation requirements with which we have complied for the past 22 years. I don't need the additional intrusion of some homeschooling agency to make sure that I am teaching my kids and not abusing them. And what if this agency determines that a child is not receiving what they deem a proper education? Are they going to report the family to the authorities? It's very disturbing that we suspect parents of abuse unless we can somehow monitor them.

[Jayne J]

 

 

In my state you do portfolio reviews twice a year. However, you're not required to bring the child . . . just a portfolio with work samples and a 15 minute conversation. You could definitely hide a child for years with this system. Most people have pictures in their portfolios, but I'm not sure if its required.

 

My homeschooling umbrella group does it differently. If you want to review with them, you HAVE to go on one field trip per year. Someone in the group will at least see that the child is alive.

 

Personally, I don't equate a little bit of accountability with slavery. An educator balking at filling in a form, or gathering some work samples makes me a bit suspicious. Compared to homeschooling, a review is soooo easy. If you're actually schooling every day, gathering 5 or 6 samples per subject isn't really a tough thing. I've spent more time on this thread than I have at any single portfolio review.

 

I agree. I live in PA, a state considered to have a high level of homeschool regulation. We have to do portfolios, have an evaluation (during which the evaluator speaks to the child) and are required to provide proof of medical and dental care, among other things. My children *must* see mandated reporters at least three times per school year. And I think that is a good thing. It protects children. I can see how easily a child could be abused in states which do not require any kind of reporting/evaluations/etc.

Defining educational neglect/abuse edges into touchy, grey, philosophical waters, and I think it would be difficult to regulate fairly. Physical/sexual/emotional abuse is a little more clear cut and simpler to guard against/ be aware of.

 

[Spy Car]

 

I believe that if SpyCar was in charge of Math, no child would ever be left behind to be taught with Saxon. Which for some strange reason my son excels with. The thing that makes homeschooling so amazing for us, is that I can use different curriculum for different kids. I can adjust the speed of what is taught so that each child can be constantly challenged but not overwhelmed to the point of tears.

 

You believe wrongly. And it rather trivializes what is an important question.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

 

 

That homeschooling lose credibility in the minds of some people based on the actions of some homeschoolers isn't a basis for trying to regulate--not even self-regulate--homeschooling in general.

 

But protecting victims of neglect might be a sound basis for having some sensible regulation, yes?

 

Also, it's, well, sort of offensive for you to suggest that the standards of homeschoolers in general need to be raised. I know you didn't mean to be offensive, but there it is. :-)

 

How is that offensive? People speak of raising educational standards all the time. I don't get it.

 

Seems to me like "offense" is too easily taken.

 

Those who are opposed to homeschooling on principle will look for any news tidbit as a way of "proving" that we need to be regulated or that our standards need to be raised or that homeschoolers as a whole have lost credibility. Don't be one of those people.

 

There just aren't that many of "those people" left. In the main, society has embraced the idea of home education, and some school districts are even trying to "get into the act" with their own versions of virtual academies, etc. The "zero-accountability" movement is a stumbling block to full main-stream acceptance, because it leaves vulnerable children completely without protections when the home environment is abusive and neglectful.

 

Assume that the standards you have for your own homeschooling are at least as high as the standards of other homeschoolers, and that your homeschooling efforts are credible. :-)

 

You think there are no homeschoolers with very low standards Ellie? Why is a failed homeschool more acceptable than a failed public school?

 

Bill

[Erin]

And is this effective? Is there educational neglect around where you are with these requirements?

 

I live in a state with no oversight. No registering, no reviews, no umbrella school. People around here justify all sorts of nonsense as school.

 

I've homeschooled in two different states, both of which had little to no oversight.

One required annual registration of children and curricular choices but nothing so far as testing, portfolios, interviews, etc. For that matter, you can completely invent what you put on the curriculum lists and no one knows the difference.

 

In the other, I had the register our family as a private, non-accredited school. It was a half-page, online form...name, address, ages of the kids. That's it. I never have to speak to anyone again.

 

Generally speaking, I think most homeschooled kids are meeting or exceeding the standards of their group-schooled peers. But I too am one who can think of several examples where some basic oversight would have been a good thing!

 

 

Ladies, we do not live in vacuums. Our children will go out into the world to be (hopefully!) productive members of society. Consequently, society has a right to certain expectations...

[Incognito]

I know my post was long before, but in short, by tying money and help for you as a teacher to it (but not a lot of obligation), my province has around 90% voluntary oversight of homeschoolers.

[Ellie]

Ladies, we do not live in vacuums. Our children will go out into the world to be (hopefully!) productive members of society. Consequently, society has a right to certain expectations...

 

That society has a "right to certain expectations" does not mean it has a right to regulate how parents teach their own children.

 

Or to take that in another direction, when society has managed to develop public schools which reliably produce well-educated, socially responsible children, then it may have earned the right to regulate privately educated children.

[Ellie]

But protecting victims of neglect might be a sound basis for having some sensible regulation, yes?

 

No.

 

You think there are no homeschoolers with very low standards Ellie? Why is a failed homeschool more acceptable than a failed public school?

 

You seem to take pleasure in twisting my words. You do this frequently. It is why I rarely respond to you, and why I will no longer reply in this thread.

 

Carry on.

[Erin]

 

That society has a "right to certain expectations" does not mean it has a right to regulate how parents teach their own children.

 

Or to take that in another direction, when society has managed to develop public schools which reliably produce well-educated, socially responsible children, then it may have earned the right to regulate privately educated children.

You're dividing this into "us vs. them."

But society is "we."

 

Because we are all a part of civilization, it is in everyone's best interests to educate all children to the best of their abilities.

[I.Dup.]

Seems to me like "offense" is too easily taken.

 

 

Kindof like "abuse" or "neglect."