Help me place her in math please...

[truebluexf]

DD1 started the year doing MM3, but halfway through we jumped to MM4 bc she was getting every single problem correct and was bored and calling it baby work. For a multitude of reasons, I'm switching both kids to Teaching Textbooks next year. I'm looking at the placement tests, and she can move all the way to TT6 for the fall by the skin of her teeth. She learns concepts super fast, so is this a good idea? The biggest downside I see to this is she will be doing the same level as her brother who will be in 6th grade (ouch.) I don't want to rush her, but I don't want to hold her back, either! I figured she would probably be moving up to it by mid-next year, but I didn't realize she would likely be starting it at the same time as her brother. Thoughts???

 

My other concern is that she has skipped certain concepts like measurements and geometry by skipping grades, and won't get exposed to them again now until late next year. I'm not really sure that matters? She is a perfectionist, so I *am* currently going over division and fractions with her super quick before her mandatory state testing in a couple weeks (just the CAT, but she will freak if she comes across something she hasn't covered lol...she missed these topics in 3B but will cover them in again later.)

[wapiti]

Skipped topics would not concern me terribly, as you could grab a few lessons from MM when you discover that a topic has been missed. Or, you could compare sequences to see what is being skipped and cover that first.

 

I'd be more concerned with non-sequence aspects and supplementing to address those, such as depth of concept instruction and problem-solving practice.

[truebluexf]

Hmmmmm. What would be best for covering those areas?

[Job384]

Someone recommended the ADAM test to me at Let's Go Learn, and it was enormously helpful. It will tell you what grade level she's working at in specific areas. Then you could move her up knowing exactly where to backfill some concepts she might have missed.

[truebluexf]

That's a good idea too. :)

 

I hope TT is even good for her...she liked the trial she did. She is a self-learner, and me teaching her is awful. She wants help. She doesn't want help. Why did I help her? I just gave her the answer, gasp! Oy. She still needs help but knowing exactly how much she wants is a challenge lol. I figured TT would help us avoid this conflict. But maybe it will move too slowly?? IDK. Or maybe she just needs to get up to the right level and then she will kind of even out?

[truebluexf]

Is there another computer based, self-learning type program that would be good? I'm feeling concerned about my son if his little sister uses the same math program at the same level, or even jumps ahead. :/ Of course one level would save me money lol.

[raptor_dad]

OK so you have two issues here. First she is advanced in math and you need to support that. Second she has the very common perfectionist tendencies for bright kids. It seems to me, you need to be looking towards an advanced curriculum that can challenge her and overcome her perfectionist tendencies. TT6 could be a bridge that challenges her if you can deal with the social dynamics with your older DS. After that I would look at AoPS pre-algebra. Your DD would need to understand each of these steps would be a big jump in difficulty. If TT6 doesn't work for social reasons I would look at MM6 and then move over to AoPS. Either way you likely have a year or so until you transition DD into a different math track than DS so you will have to deal with that.

 

Good Luck,

-chris

[truebluexf]

I am so scared of AoPS. I suuuuccckkkkkeeeedddd at math!!!!! I never even took pre-calc, in high school or college.

 

I have no idea where this child came from LOL!

[raptor_dad]

I am so scared of AoPS. I suuuuccckkkkkeeeedddd at math!!!!! I never even took pre-calc, in high school or college.

 

I have no idea where this child came from LOL!

 

Exactly.... AoPS is discovery based and has free videos available... So it will hopefully get you out of the instructional loop. At first you will likely have a major role providing emotional support, but after she works through her perfectionist tendencies she should be able to work on her own. She's young so you can give her lots of space and time to work through it or allow her to fly as things develop... or maybe TT6 will be more than ample challenge and you can progress from there... The first step is to up the challenge and then follow DD's cues.

 

Good Luck,

-chris

[wapiti]

That's a good idea too.

 

I hope TT is even good for her...she liked the trial she did. She is a self-learner, and me teaching her is awful. She wants help. She doesn't want help. Why did I help her? I just gave her the answer, gasp! Oy. She still needs help but knowing exactly how much she wants is a challenge lol. I figured TT would help us avoid this conflict. But maybe it will move too slowly?? IDK. Or maybe she just needs to get up to the right level and then she will kind of even out?

FWIW, I totally get this.  Sometimes doing the lesson on the white board makes things more fun when one of my kids gets stuck.

 

If you are considering AoPS for down the road, I would not move to TT at this juncture. I'd stick it out with MM through the end of 5/beginning of 6 until she can switch to AoPS. In a non-computerized program, MM is about as self-directed as can be found, though possibly not until your dd is a little older. The only danger is that she may need to move ahead, lesson by lesson, a bit more quickly than you are allowing her - keep an eye on the pace and whether it seems to be a good balance of practice and new learning. I'd avoid assigning every single problem in MM except where she needs the practice. MM5 is a great level and should challenge her plenty.

 

Alternatively, if there's something about MM that's a contributing issue, I'd look in the direction of SM, though that would not take you out of the equation. Unfortunately, I don't think there are a whole lot of quality computerized programs at this level - EPGY is pretty dry and might need to be supplemented with more practice, but maybe worth looking at. One possible option that I don't know anything about is Singapore Buddies to go along with Singapore Math.

Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[truebluexf]

We almost never do all the problems with MM lol. She's like, ok, I get it! Plus she does move slowly now. I think for right now, MM4 is the right spot for her. I know it's the stronger program. I just the getting into fights over it. I didn't start homeschooling to yell at my kid, KWIM? I dislike teaching Singapore, which is why we moved to MM. Just too many books for me to deal with. We will finish most of 4A this year, then if we stick with it I will have to see if we need to zip thru B and head to 5.

[mathwonk]

As a professional geometer I have always thought that skipping geometry causes tooth decay and night sweats. But go right ahead.

[truebluexf]

Hahaha. Perhaps you misunderstood...I was concerned about her not getting to that this year, but the reason I thought it would be ok is she will get it next year, at a more appropriate level of challenge. ;)

 

So she could switch to AoPS after only finishing MM5? The idea of having to teach her math directly another year or so makes me twitch, but I don't want her to be at a disadvantage, either. Sigh.

[wapiti]

So she could switch to AoPS after only finishing MM5? The idea of having to teach her math directly another year or so makes me twitch, but I don't want her to be at a disadvantage, either. Sigh.

 

I would do a few parts of MM 6, but how much depends on how well she's doing and how quickly she gets things. Proficiency in all operations with negative numbers is a prerequisite for AoPS Prealgebra and MM 5 only covers + and -, so you'd need to grab the lessons on multiplication and division from MM6 or otherwise teach it (this doesn't take long but is absolutely necessary).

 

If she needs more practice with fractions and decimals, I'd use at least the chapter reviews on those topics from MM 6 (I can't recall how much is new there). I also recommend the ratio chapter (ch 2) in MM 6A before AoPS, not a requirement but quite helpful.

[truebluexf]

Would it really be awful to use TT? Maybe with LOF? Or will TT be too hard to accelerate if needed?

[MamaSprout]

My DD likes to discover math on her own, but I do work with her some. We do own the MathTacular videos, so she's been exposed to most topics through it and living math books. TT would not work for us because it is a spiral like Saxon.

 

We've been working through Singapore placement tests and alternating with Beast Academy. We are beyond the topics, but not the AoPS thinking process in Beast 3a-3d, so the combo of the two is working. When she hits a topic she doesn't know on the Singapore test, we stop and I use the Singapore book and a whiteboard. If it's something that needs a little repetition, I print off a few Math Mammoth pages.

 

I wish I could get the Singapore books at the library, and/ or had bought the Blue Series instead of the Light Blue MM. We can go through a level of Singapore in 3 weeks. After a level, we go back to Beast for a while.

 

Bean

[wapiti]

Would it really be awful to use TT? Maybe with LOF? Or will TT be too hard to accelerate if needed?

 

If anything, it may be too easy to fly through without sufficient depth and difficulty and then arrive at AoPS too soon for the style and unprepared for the level of challenge. AoPS focuses on depth of concept understanding and practice facing hard problems the student has not seen before by using the concepts as tools. In contrast, TT is known to focus more on procedures than on concepts.

 

Even if you are not shooting for AoPS down the road (there are other possibilities), you may still want to encourage a deep understanding of, and challenging practice with, critical concepts in upper-elementary math (e.g. fractions) in preparation for secondary math.

 

As for supplements, whether LOF would add sufficient depth and challenge is controversial. For a supplement, I'd look at SM CWP, Zaccaro, Beast Academy as mentioned by the PP, etc., though to minimize your involvement, you might just stay with MM. While there are different degrees of student frustration, occasionally having to think hard is exactly what I'd want - I wouldn't seek to avoid it. For encouragement, you might read Rusczyk's lecture on problem solving.

[Dmmetler]

I think LoF was a great bridge for my DD as far as learning how to copy from a textbook, work problems, and work problems without having a full solution-and some of the problems really DO require thought. Actually, we hit more problems that required thought and effort in LoF Pre-Algebra than we did in SM IP/CWP 6, done concurrently, because SM only used tools that had already been fully presented and explained, just in new ways. LoF sometimes didn't. We also did Continental Math League, Math Counts, and Math Kangaroo practice, which helped increase the problem solving. I don't think she could have gone straight from SM 5B to AOPS Pre-Algebra, but I think she's pretty well prepared for an AOPS/LOF combo (plus math competition problems and other fun stuff) next year.

[truebluexf]

Thanks for the advice and input. I guess we will forgo TT with this one, much to my dismay lol! Perhaps we will start throwing in some BA, it does look like it has some interesting puzzles. I actually think my oldest could benefit from some of it, lol.

 

I'm in no rush for her to hit algebra and such until she is good and ready, so I don't really see rushing into it after MM 5, but only time will tell. I *think* I'd rather slow down and go deeper at that point, but I hesititate to decide anything this early. It is very good to have some sort of guide for where we should be heading though! :) I'm sure I'll have more questions again later!

[wapiti]

I'm in no rush for her to hit algebra and such until she is good and ready, so I don't really see rushing into it after MM 5, but only time will tell. I *think* I'd rather slow down and go deeper at that point, but I hesititate to decide anything this early.

 

Yes, wait and see. (FWIW, my reference to AoPS above is to AoPS Prealgebra, not the algebra. And, it's nice and deep :))

[truebluexf]

Yes, sorry, I did know what you meant! I combined two thoughts accidentally. :) My mind was skipping around and calculating what grade she would be in for algebra as I was typing....as usual my brain runs faster than my fingers! :p

[truebluexf]

Just want to say we just watched a couple of the AoPS videos and she loved them...she has some more incentive now to work through MM!!!! :D

[Bang!Zoom!]

aleks online is a pretty good tool if you are looking for sub strands they need exposure too, give it a try, it's pretty neat

[MamaSprout]

Khan academy works really well for some kids, too.

 

Bean

[truebluexf]

I looked at Khan a while back and just saw it as a jumble of videos...what am I missing? I hear about it all the time.

[truebluexf]

I take that back. It has changed a LOT since I first checked it out!!!!!

 

HOW do people use it, though?

[MamaSprout]

Set up an account- I'm not sure if every student needs an email address, or not. After that, you can just let the kids roam for a few days to see how it works for them. For us, we supplement with it, but dd goes into "Achievements" then "Moon Badges" and from there, sets goals based on those, by clicking on the green goal tabs. There are dozens of ways to approach Khan. It's great for those days when no one wants to pick up a pencil.

 

Bean