MFW to HOD to MFW to HOD - which plan would you choose?

[Momof2littles]

This is for the future...and I'm not buying anything just thinking and making plans in my head.

 

We just started MFW1. My dd is 6.

 

So, what do you think about this order of curriculum?

MFW 1st grade

MFW Adventures 2nd grade

HOD bigger 3rd grade

HOD preparing 4th grade

 

-or-

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW adventures 2nd grade

MFW ECC 3rd grade

HOD Preparing 4th grade

 

-or-

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW Adventures 2nd grade

HOD Bigger 3rd grade

MFW ECC 4th grade

HOD Preparing 5th grade

 

Which "plan" would you choose?

[Donna A.]

I wouldn't worry about it right now unless you have lots of money to spend on curriculum and need to buy several years' worth right now. ;)

 

Seriously... you know you're going to do Adventures next, so just enjoy that and figure out the rest later. Any of the scenarios listed would work. :) (I've either done or am doing both MFW and HOD, btw. Several levels.)

[Momof2littles]

I wouldn't worry about it right now unless you have lots of money to spend on curriculum and need to buy several years' worth right now. ;)

 

Seriously... you know you're going to do Adventures next, so just enjoy that and figure out the rest later. Any of the scenarios listed would work. :) (I've either done or am doing both MFW and HOD, btw. Several levels.)

 

 

Oh I'm not buying anything right now!! Just thinking ahead for fun! :D

[Monarch Room]

MFW 1st grade

MFW Adventures 2nd grade

HOD bigger 3rd grade

HOD preparing 4th grade

 

Of your 3 plans, this would be my vote.

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW adventures 2nd grade

MFW ECC 3rd grade

HOD Preparing 4th grade

 

If it were me I wouldn't skip Bigger. Bigger covers way more American history than Beyond or Adventures.

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW Adventures 2nd grade

HOD Bigger 3rd grade

MFW ECC 4th grade

HOD Preparing 5th grade

 

I wouldn't do this one unless you plan to jump to MFW after Preparing. Ideally you get to CtC in 5th in HOD, so that you hit the high school guide on time.

 

This is my weird plan:

 

1st - Bigger - I combined my kids in Bigger, so I had a 1st and 4th grader here this year

2nd - Beyond - Realized my youngest wasn't ready for Preparing, so I am backing him into Beyond. I had considered Adventures, but decided on Beyond.

3rd - ECC

4th - Preparing

5th - CtC

 

I wouldn't have done the above if I knew then what I know now. I thought Beyond didn't look challenging enough, but I've changed my views on how to approach these early years :) The only reason I'm backing into Beyond is that I really don't want to get to Preparing before 4th grade. If I knew then, I would have started HOD in 2nd with Beyond, and then progressed up through the guides from there. Is there a reason you don't want to stick with one or the other?

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

We're using MFW Adventures and I've only looked at the other programs online (extensively as I've considered all of them at some point in time) and this would be my pick. It leads well into a 4 year history cycle starting in 5th grade. I like this sequence of topics for my current 5yo, but would probably only use some of these curricula. But of course, as others have already mentioned, it's just an idea. I know that things can and probably will change between now and then.

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW adventures 2nd grade

MFW ECC 3rd grade

HOD Preparing 4th grade

 

[Donna A.]

Okay, more food for fodder. :)

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW adventures 2nd grade

MFW ECC 3rd grade

HOD Preparing 4th grade

 

If it were me I wouldn't skip Bigger. Bigger covers way more American history than Beyond or Adventures.

 

Bigger is more in-depth than Adventures, that's true. They are very different programs, covering different things. But is it necessary to go in-depth at this level when the student will be covering it more in-depth two more times? That's a question you will have to ask yourself, Momof2littles. You should also decide, as time goes on, what you want to cover with your kids in Bible and science, not just history. You may need a little time to figure out your best teaching style, and your children's learning styles, whether you want to study history and Bible together as a family or not.... many things which you may not know until after you've been in it for a couple years (or more). That's why I suggested you not worry about the long term plan just yet.

 

All that said, if I *had* to pick one of your scenarios as MY first choice, having done (or doing) all four of those programs at some point, I would go with this one, too. ;) (That is, ADV, then ECC, then Preparing.)

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW Adventures 2nd grade

HOD Bigger 3rd grade

MFW ECC 4th grade

HOD Preparing 5th grade

 

I wouldn't do this one unless you plan to jump to MFW after Preparing. Ideally you get to CtC in 5th in HOD, so that you hit the high school guide on time.

 

Well, this point applies to MFW as well. *Ideally*, it would be nice if we could all start Ancients in 5th grade and follow a "perfect" path of at least two 4-year chronological history cycles, regardless of which curriculum/package of books we're using. Sometimes life changes that plan, though. Things like chronic illness, job losses, new babies, long distance moves, etc. sometimes get in the way of our best laid plans.

 

The only reason I'm backing into Beyond is that I really don't want to get to Preparing before 4th grade. If I knew then, I would have started HOD in 2nd with Beyond, and then progressed up through the guides from there. Is there a reason you don't want to stick with one or the other?

 

 

I do agree about not hitting Preparing before 4th grade. :)

[Smiles]

I am curious about why so many people leave MFW to go to HOD, can anyone tell me that? It seems that a lot f people leave MFW to go to HOD. Thanks

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

We chose MFW this year because I wanted to study American history and it was at a good level for my first and third graders. I liked that it included a state study. We might use MFW ECC next year. We will for sure be studying world geography (and oldest dd will also be reading through A Child's History of the World, which is used in HOD Preparing). We are Catholic, so we will be moving on to a Catholic history program for oldest dd's 5th grade year (Connecting With History). Otherwise, I'd be more likely to use MFW for 5th than HOD.

[Donna A.]

I am curious about why so many people leave MFW to go to HOD, can anyone tell me that? It seems that a lot f people leave MFW to go to HOD. Thanks

 

Since you asked specifically why people leave MFW to go to HOD, and not the other way around (hang out on the MFW forums for a while and you'll see that the opposite is also true... it's also true that many folks NEVER leave MFW, but they don't post a lot, so you don't *see* it), I'll explain some of the reasons I've seen given repeatedly over the years. Obviously I'm not speaking for everyone, as different people have different reasons (like the poster above who is Catholic). But following are some of the most common reasons I've seen given.

 

Many folks start out with MFW, then bail when they get to either Adventures because it's too "light" (not sure what they're expecting at the 2nd grade level?), or ECC because it's too "repetitive". A country is a country is a country, so regardless of what you use to study world geography, you're going to have some similarities from one country study to another.

 

Also, there are many different ways to add variety in a unit study, and one thing I've seen from some moms is that they really just don't know HOW to do unit studies or teach multi-level learning in a "one-room schoolhouse" type of setting. Therefore, they feel more comfortable using something very scripted and more grade-level specific.

 

Thus, after having tried a multi-level learning unit study curriculum like MFW, they leave MFW before they even get to the history cycle and therefore don't know what it accomplishes over the long term.

 

Another reason is that because Marie doesn't "script" the next lesson # in the English or math books on the weekly grid, some folks assume that MFW doesn't "schedule" English or math. In fact, Marie does include those subjects on the weekly grid (simply as "English" and "Math"), and she does give instruction in the TM for how to use their recommendations for those subjects. She does it this way because MFW is a multi-level learning program, so she can't possibly say on the grid, "Do Lesson 6 of your XYZ book" when all of the students in the group aren't ON Lesson 6, and may not even all be using XYZ publisher for that subject. :001_rolleyes: So yes, Marie does schedule those subjects.... she just does it differently than Carrie does in HOD because of the nature of it being a "unit study".

 

Also, many moms tend to "judge a book by its cover" without actually reading the teacher notes in the MFW TMs to see how Marie explains what to do with those books. They see a handful of books here and there that they don't like or don't agree with philosophically, and they just don't want to go there at all.

 

These comments are NOT a slam against anyone in particular, btw. :001_cool: But as an experienced homeschooler (coming up on our 13th anniversary this summer!) who's read and listened to a LOT of teaching tools over the years, and who's had many 1-on-1 conversations with HOD users, these are my observations. I've seen other reasons given as well, but these seem to be the most common. (I've summarized a lot.)

 

The bottom line is that MFW and HOD have many similarities, and so therefore people are often torn between the two. I'm one of those people. :) But they also have just enough differences to cause division and well, users of any given curriculum that has brought success and joy to their homeschool tend to be fiercely loyal. ;) But beware of "comparison posts" done by people who've never used one or the other of these programs.... especially if those people are related to or work for the author.

 

Also, things go in waves in the homeschool world. HOD and MFW are both the fastest growing biblically focused, lit-based curriculums out there, so it stands to reason that there's a lot of competition between the two in recent years. Eventually it'll fizzle out. There's always somebody somewhere in the process of planning or writing the newest and bestest thing. :lol:

[twoxcell]

Out of those choices I would go with the first option. If it were my choice though I would just use HOD. ;)

[Juliegmom]

You may need a little time to figure out your best teaching style, and your children's learning styles, whether you want to study history and Bible together as a family or not.... many things which you may not know until after you've been in it for a couple years (or more). That's why I suggested you not worry about the long term plan just yet.

 

All that said, if I *had* to pick one of your scenarios as MY first choice, having done (or doing) all four of those programs at some point, I would go with this one, too. ;) (That is, ADV, then ECC, then Preparing.)

 

Well, this point applies to MFW as well. *Ideally*, it would be nice if we could all start Ancients in 5th grade and follow a "perfect" path of at least two 4-year chronological history cycles, regardless of which curriculum/package of books we're using. Sometimes life changes that plan, though. Things like chronic illness, job losses, new babies, long distance moves, etc. sometimes get in the way of our best laid plans.

 

I do agree about not hitting Preparing before 4th grade. :)

:iagree:

[Momof2littles]

Thanks for all the replies! I am just thinking about what we "could" do in the future...and if I know me I'll change my mind 1000x before June. :D

 

 

Is there a reason you don't want to stick with one or the other?

 

I started with LHFHG and my dd did not fit into the guide. I needed two guides to make it "work." After a few weeks b/c of moving 300 miles and then living with inlaws I dumped HOD for sonlight which was perfect for our situation. I love the "heart" of HOD, but I don't love the guide layout. I agree with the theology and doctrine of HOD. I also love what I know of MFW. I am so happy with 1st grade...timeline, proverbs, and so much more! We have space for crafts and hands on and my dd definitely needed explicit phonics instruction (NOT The Reading Lesson as HOD strongly suggests...).

 

Also, my kids (and future kids) really aren't close enough to combine, IMO. My two are 3.5 years apart and if/when we have more they will be even further apart. I feel like I have the opportunity to use a mulit-level curriculum like MFW or a more level-specific curriculum like HOD b/c my kids could be combined or separated easily.

 

As far as I can tell, Adventures and ECC go into more geography. I think it would be really great to have a year of US history with the state study/geography and then do the biographical history of the US. I love that idea! I would also LOVE for my child to have an overview of cultures and world geography (ECC) before actually studying world history. The mission focus and culture study is soo important to me! But like I said above, I love how HOD gets to the "heart" of the student which is also very important to me. Maybe MFW works on and stresses the importance of the heart. I don't really know as I haven't researched that deeply into MFW. I just love what I've seen of MFW so far.

 

The multi-level and the level-specific have pros and cons for me, and I honestly cannot decided between either right now (and thankfully I don't b/c I am working through MFW 1 and am pretty sure we're moving on to Adventures next b/c I'm not interested in Beyond for 2nd grade).

 

I'm not set on either curriculum but I'm very happy with where we are right now. I'd definitely like to try HOD again in an "older" guide as I read over and over that the guides only get better each year. I just wasn't impressed with LHFHG but I can see and understand the vision of HOD (don't love the "bossiness" of the guides though...I'm a weekly grid kind of gal).

 

 

Okay, more food for fodder. :)

You should also decide, as time goes on, what you want to cover with your kids in Bible and science, not just history. You may need a little time to figure out your best teaching style, and your children's learning styles, whether you want to study history and Bible together as a family or not.... many things which you may not know until after you've been in it for a couple years (or more). That's why I suggested you not worry about the long term plan just yet.

Sometimes life changes that plan, though. Things like chronic illness, job losses, new babies, long distance moves, etc. sometimes get in the way of our best laid plans.

 

I totally agree with you. We had a slow school year (even though kinder should be fun this year we haven't done much other than read great books and math and (wasted) reading time (with the reading lesson). Even though I taught public school for many years before homeschooling, I'm still figuring out my teaching style and my dd's learning style.

 

This discussion has been great to get my brain thinking about where we do want to go in the future.

 

 

Another reason is that because Marie doesn't "script" the next lesson # in the English or math books on the weekly grid, some folks assume that MFW doesn't "schedule" English or math.

 

I love this about MFW.

[Mom2TheTeam]

So far we have done MFW K and 1st. We are finishing up 1st and will start Adv for 2nd in a couple of months. I change my thoughts on future plans very often. However, HOD has a strong draw for me and I really do want to try it....at least once....Ultimately, I'm pretty sure we are MFW'ers long term. I have 6 kids over 7 years. So, combining is a big deal for us. I need to be able to do that, which puts us squarely in the MFW camp long term.

 

But, after Adv, I *could* branch out for a year. My oldest will be in 3rd and my next will be in 1st. Those will be my only 3 officially doing school at that point. My 1st graders will do MFW 1st completely because it is such a wonderful program. So, I really don't need to do anything they would need to be combined with. My other thing is I'm strongly feeling like I'd like to wait another year before doing ECC and do that in 4th with him and the next in line will be in 2nd. He is very sensitive. I would really like to be able to read the missionary stories, but he really is super sensitive. We'll see how he is doing a year from now when we will be just about ready to start ECC, but right now, I'm thinking the extra year would be very good for him.

 

Also, like you, I think doing Adv and then a more in-depth study of US history sounds great. So, right this minute...remember, it will likely change a hour from now ;), I'm thinking of this:

 

MFW K

MFW 1st

MFW Adv

HOD Bigger

MFW ECC and following.....

 

 

In our family, I really do want to combine, but I also want to make sure things are age appropriate. I *could* in theory not combine, but I would have to run 3-4 programs. I have 2 sets of twins. So, each set will be as combined as they can be. When my youngest is old enough to fully join the family, my oldest will be close to highschool and be mostly independent by then. But, I'm really hoping to do 2 programs at once at the most, like an older history cycle and a K or 1st program. But, I'm hoping not to do 2 history cycles at once. Although, if one is geography rather than history or US instead of world, I might be okay with doing it.

 

Anyway, we'll see...I'm just thinking out loud and thinking/planning ahead with you. It's fun to plan. Even if the plan changes often. ;)

[raceNzanesmom]

I can't really help because MFW never really appealed to me. However, I will say we LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bigger Hearts! This has probably been my favorite year of hs'ing in the 9 years I've been doing it. :)

[Smiles]

Since you asked specifically why people leave MFW to go to HOD, and not the other way around (hang out on the MFW forums for a while and you'll see that the opposite is also true... it's also true that many folks NEVER leave MFW, but they don't post a lot, so you don't *see* it), I'll explain some of the reasons I've seen given repeatedly over the years. Obviously I'm not speaking for everyone, as different people have different reasons (like the poster above who is Catholic). But following are some of the most common reasons I've seen given.

 

Many folks start out with MFW, then bail when they get to either Adventures because it's too "light" (not sure what they're expecting at the 2nd grade level?), or ECC because it's too "repetitive". A country is a country is a country, so regardless of what you use to study world geography, you're going to have some similarities from one country study to another.

 

Also, there are many different ways to add variety in a unit study, and one thing I've seen from some moms is that they really just don't know HOW to do unit studies or teach multi-level learning in a "one-room schoolhouse" type of setting. Therefore, they feel more comfortable using something very scripted and more grade-level specific.

 

Thus, after having tried a multi-level learning unit study curriculum like MFW, they leave MFW before they even get to the history cycle and therefore don't know what it accomplishes over the long term.

 

Another reason is that because Marie doesn't "script" the next lesson # in the English or math books on the weekly grid, some folks assume that MFW doesn't "schedule" English or math. In fact, Marie does include those subjects on the weekly grid (simply as "English" and "Math"), and she does give instruction in the TM for how to use their recommendations for those subjects. She does it this way because MFW is a multi-level learning program, so she can't possibly say on the grid, "Do Lesson 6 of your XYZ book" when all of the students in the group aren't ON Lesson 6, and may not even all be using XYZ publisher for that subject. :001_rolleyes: So yes, Marie does schedule those subjects.... she just does it differently than Carrie does in HOD because of the nature of it being a "unit study".

 

Also, many moms tend to "judge a book by its cover" without actually reading the teacher notes in the MFW TMs to see how Marie explains what to do with those books. They see a handful of books here and there that they don't like or don't agree with philosophically, and they just don't want to go there at all.

 

These comments are NOT a slam against anyone in particular, btw. :001_cool: But as an experienced homeschooler (coming up on our 13th anniversary this summer!) who's read and listened to a LOT of teaching tools over the years, and who's had many 1-on-1 conversations with HOD users, these are my observations. I've seen other reasons given as well, but these seem to be the most common. (I've summarized a lot.)

 

The bottom line is that MFW and HOD have many similarities, and so therefore people are often torn between the two. I'm one of those people. :) But they also have just enough differences to cause division and well, users of any given curriculum that has brought success and joy to their homeschool tend to be fiercely loyal. ;) But beware of "comparison posts" done by people who've never used one or the other of these programs.... especially if those people are related to or work for the author.

 

Also, things go in waves in the homeschool world. HOD and MFW are both the fastest growing biblically focused, lit-based curriculums out there, so it stands to reason that there's a lot of competition between the two in recent years. Eventually it'll fizzle out. There's always somebody somewhere in the process of planning or writing the newest and bestest thing. :lol:

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer. I feel like we will be longterm MFW users but I do question from time to time and I am still very new at this, so I always like to see what others say. I am very drawn to MFW and I also like that Marie is a homeschooling mom! I don't know anything about HOD but it seems I have been reading a lot about them lately. Anyways thanks for your time!

[Michelle My Bell]

I would do this one of your options:

 

MFW 1st grade

MFW adventures 2nd grade

MFW ECC 3rd grade

HOD Preparing 4th grade

 

Truth be told however, I am not a fan of HOD or MFW before 4th grade. I used MFW co several years (used K, 1st, ECC, CTC, RTR, EXp-1850) and while I dropped all the youngest programs about 1/2 way through the year I did enjoy the older guides. My problems started to come with #1 boredom- the guides lacked any variety and the book selections took far too long to get through. #2 to general- the guides were overly challenging for my younger daughter but too easy for my older daughter. #3 not independent - I was spending a lot of hours a day teaching several programs even though I could combine some of my kids.

 

I have used HOD for the last 4 years and here is what I like:

Variety: each years guide has its own look and feel. We don't get bored.

 

More specific. Levels: my kids use levels more specific to their abilities. It challenges them while not being too difficult.

 

Independent: my older girls can do all or some of their work on their own while I work with the younger ones.

 

I use whatever I like now with my younger ones. I don't start HOD Preparing until 4th grade.

[Donna A.]

 

I am very drawn to MFW and I also like that Marie is a homeschooling mom!

 

You hit on something here that I've mentioned to others in the past, but didn't think of earlier in this discussion. I think the difference in the background of the two authors comes out in the way they've written their curriculum... different backgrounds and personalities, with completely different writing and teaching styles. I've met Marie in person. I have not yet met Carrie.

 

Marie was an overseas missionary, mom of 6 kids (4 girls and 2 boys who are all grown now with the youngest I think still in high school), Kindergarten teacher with a Master's in Speech and Language, and tag-teamed with her dh in teaching their children at home. I believe her children, or possibly all but the oldest, have always been homeschooled. MFW curriculum is always piloted by several other families for at least a year or two before it hits the market.

 

Carrie was a classroom teacher who eventually quit to homeschool her 4 boys, all still at home. I think the oldest is just starting high school or thereabouts. I'm not sure at what point Carrie started homeschooling. HOD curriculum is piloted by (or tested on?) Carrie's own children, and possibly her sister Julie's? Maybe someone else can step in and clarify that for us. I'm not aware of it being piloted by any other non-related families, but maybe it is.

[Michelle My Bell]

Carrie was a classroom teacher who eventually quit to homeschool her 4 boys, all still at home. I think the oldest is just starting high school or thereabouts. I'm not sure at what point Carrie started homeschooling. HOD curriculum is piloted by (or tested on?) Carrie's own children, and possibly her sister Julie's? Maybe someone else can step in and clarify that for us. I'm not aware of it being piloted by any other non-related families, but maybe it is.

 

 

Yes, what you said is mostly true. Her oldest son is actually going to be a senior this year I believe. She has always homeschooled her kids.

 

From HOD site:

 

 

Carrie Austin holds a Bachelor's Degree in Elementary Education with a middle school endorsement. She received her Master's Degree in Educational Leadership. Carrie has eleven years of classroom teaching experience.

 

Mike, Carrie, Cole (1995), Shaw (1999), Greyson (2002), and Beau (2006) live in Dell Rapids, SD. We have been a home schooling family since Cole started preschool in 1999 and have thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

 

 

I think her programs really start to shine in the upper grades.

[Mom2TheTeam]

You hit on something here that I've mentioned to others in the past, but didn't think of earlier in this discussion. I think the difference in the background of the two authors comes out in the way they've written their curriculum... different backgrounds and personalities, with completely different writing and teaching styles. I've met Marie in person. I have not yet met Carrie.

 

Marie was an overseas missionary, mom of 6 kids (4 girls and 2 boys who are all grown now with the youngest I think still in high school), Kindergarten teacher with a Master's in Speech and Language, and tag-teamed with her dh in teaching their children at home. I believe her children, or possibly all but the oldest, have always been homeschooled. MFW curriculum is always piloted by several other families for at least a year or two before it hits the market.

 

Carrie was a classroom teacher who eventually quit to homeschool her 4 boys, all still at home. I think the oldest is just starting high school or thereabouts. I'm not sure at what point Carrie started homeschooling. HOD curriculum is piloted by (or tested on?) Carrie's own children, and possibly her sister Julie's? Maybe someone else can step in and clarify that for us. I'm not aware of it being piloted by any other non-related families, but maybe it is.

 

I find this interesting information. Thank you! I love MFW and have been drawn to it since day one and we have loved it. I am also very drawn to HOD. I don't really know why because what I've done of MFW I have really enjoyed. But, I keep going back to the HOD website and opening threads about HOD.

 

My issue is combining. I really need to combine because I don't think I want to or can do more than 2 core programs at once. I know I won't be able to do that as well with HOD. The big draw to HOD for me is the tight hand holding and more scripting. I love the content of MFW, but I long for more scripting and exact direction...which is why I have branched out to some PHP products for grammar and writing and why I have the HIG for Singapore even though MFW doesn't sell it. I'm thinking as I get farther along in my HS'ing journey, I won't need that so much. But for now, that is what I wish for and the big draw to HOD for me.

 

That said, our family is very similar to the Hazell's. Not overseas missionaries, but we have 6 kids and are HS'ing from K through highschool. Her ideas of schooling as a family make sense for us.

 

Because I'm wishing for one more year between Adv and ECC for my oldest, I'm thinking I might branch out to HOD for a year between. Then, I can see what it's like and stop constantly wondering if it would be better for *me.* (My kids love MFW and have done very well with it. It's me who would like to try more hand holding.) If it is a better fit, I can possibly find a way to make it work for us. (4 of our 6 are twins, meaning, I'm only teaching 4 "grade" levels at a time instead of 6 even though I have 6 kids.) If it isn't a better fit, which I suspect it won't, we can happily and contently head back over to MFW. Ultimately, I feel God strongly calling us to MFW long term and I don't feel like that is going to change. But, maybe....I'll keep praying about every year as it comes and see where He takes us.

 

Anyway, I really appreciate your input and that you have used both. Thanks!