AoPS with CLE for non-mathy 6th grader?

[I.Dup.]

This is for my non-mathy child. She will be starting 6th grade in the fall. I keep hearing about AoPS and looked it up, and it looks intriguing. Especially since it is geared to be done independently.

 

I have been very happy with CLE, she is FINALLY learning math. We have been doing that for the past 2 years and I was planning on sticking with that until after 7th, when I was going to start Algebra, probably with TT for her.

 

But now I am thinking of starting her on AoPS pre-algebra for 6th. Do you think adding AoPS would be overkill for her, since she is not math oriented and I seriously doubt she will go into a STEM field? Do most people do this alone or as a supplement? I'm sure this would require me working with her on AoPS, whereas CLE she can do completely independently. WDYT?

[wapiti]

IMO, AoPS would be both the wrong level of challenge and at the wrong point in your sequence. Written specifically for high-performing math students, it is easily amongst the most challenging prealgebra texts currently available. It is at the other end of the spectrum from TT for depth of instruction on concepts and challenge level of problems, i.e., it would make little sense to go from one to the other. Fractions, decimals and negative numbers are among the prerequisites.

 

The caveats to my opinion are that I'd be reluctant to pigeon-hole a kid as non-mathy so young and that there may be certain unusual kids, whose math talents have been hidden by LD issues (e.g. a 2e kiddo) who might do well with the big-picture style of AoPS. But generally, no, I do not think it makes sense for a non-mathy 6th grader.

 

There may be a few people who have used it as a supplement, though most use it as a more-than-full program. However, there are free videos for each lesson on the website, as well as a free on-line problem-solving practice program (Alcumus). Both the videos and Alcumus may make fine free supplements to any prealgebra program - I highly, highly recommend them!!! (Set the Alcumus subject to prealgebra, and if you'd like, select individual topics or choose for the topics to follow the order of the book. If she loves it, reconsider her level of mathiness and get her the text :))

[I.Dup.]

IMO, AoPS would be both the wrong level of challenge and at the wrong point in your sequence. Written specifically for high-performing math students, it is easily amongst the most challenging prealgebra texts currently available. It is at the other end of the spectrum from TT for depth of instruction on concepts and challenge level of problems, i.e., it would make little sense to go from one to the other. Fractions, decimals and negative numbers are among the prerequisites.

 

The caveats to my opinion are that I'd be reluctant to pigeon-hole a kid as non-mathy so young and that there may be certain unusual kids, whose math talents have been hidden by LD issues (e.g. a 2e kiddo) who might do well with the big-picture style of AoPS. But generally, no, I do not think it makes sense for a non-mathy 6th grader.

 

There may be a few people who have used it as a supplement, though most use it as a more-than-full program. However, there are free videos for each lesson on the website, as well as a free on-line problem-solving practice program (Alcumus). Both the videos and Alcumus may make fine free supplements to any prealgebra program - I highly, highly recommend them!!! (Set the Alcumus subject to prealgebra, and if you'd like, select individual topics or choose for the topics to follow the order of the book. If she loves it, reconsider her level of mathiness and get her the text :))

 

 

Thank you! I was thinking if she does well with AoPS, I would continue with that and not do TT. I was just thinking TT for her at this point to get through Algebra and up. But now I found this.....

 

I think she will like the videos (I'm watching them now). So you think if I show her a few and she likes them, I should go ahead and do that for her this year and skip CLE? She has already covered fractions, decimals and negative numbers very thoroughly in CLE.

[RootAnn]

Which level of CLE is she using?

[I.Dup.]

Which level of CLE is she using?

 

 

She is almost done with 500-level (5th)

[wapiti]

So you think if I show her a few and she likes them, I should go ahead and do that for her this year and skip CLE?

 

No, I meant she should try working problems in Alcumus (in combination with watching the videos if necessary). That is the core philisophy of AoPS - learning by doing hard problems. The videos, while wonderful, are merely an "extra" and even Alcumus is just something we use for review.

 

Also, you both should look at the excerpts of the text, even though I can't say they're great examples of what's in the book. Each lesson starts with lesson problems to be solved by the student, which little by little teaches the lesson, i.e., the lesson is "discovered" in the process of solving the problems. The lesson problems are followed by full solutions, which are then followed by exercises to practice what was learned. Note that there is a pre-test though it's easy relative to the text.

 

It still doesn't make sense to me that a student who otherwise might use TT for secondary math, and who is "non-mathy," would instead find a good fit with AoPS, as they are not comparable programs. There *really is* a whole spectrum of choices in between, with those two at opposite ends. Other choices are often discussed on the high school board. I love AoPS, but it fits a niche student. In your student's case, I'd do lots of problems in Alcumus (and lots more reading of AoPS threads) before deciding to get the text.

[I.Dup.]

No, I meant she should try working problems in Alcumus (in combination with watching the videos if necessary). That is the core philisophy of AoPS - learning by doing hard problems. The videos, while wonderful, are merely an "extra" and even Alcumus is just something we use for review.

 

Also, you both should look at the excerpts of the text, even though I can't say they're great examples of what's in the book. Each lesson starts with lesson problems to be solved by the student, which little by little teaches the lesson, i.e., the lesson is "discovered" in the process of solving the problems. The lesson problems are followed by full solutions, which are then followed by exercises to practice what was learned. Note that there is a pre-test though it's easy relative to the text.

 

It still doesn't make sense to me that a student who otherwise might use TT for secondary math, and who is "non-mathy," would instead find a good fit with AoPS, as they are not comparable programs. There *really is* a whole spectrum of choices in between, with those two at opposite ends. Other choices are often discussed on the high school board. I love AoPS, but it fits a niche student. In your student's case, I'd do lots of problems in Alcumus (and lots more reading of AoPS threads) before deciding to get the text.

 

Thank you, that helps a lot. I think you're right, that she's just not a good candidate and/or not ready for AoPS. I will try Alcumus with her though!

[RootAnn]

There have been quite a few threads on moving from CLE 600 or 700 to Pre-Algebra (this is my mega post with threads). Going from CLE 500 to Pre-Algebra might not be too much of a stretch with some programs (say, Lial's Basic College Math), but straight to AoPS Pre-Algebra? Yipes!

 

You can always order the book & see for yourself, though. I think Dereksurfs ordered a copy (perhaps it was Intro to Algebra instead of Pre-Algebra?) to see if he wanted to use it with his oldest. (Derek uses CLE with his youngers, so you could PM him and see what he thought of CLE 500 to AoPS Pre-Algebra).

[I.Dup.]

There have been quite a few threads on moving from CLE 600 or 700 to Pre-Algebra (this is my mega post with threads). Going from CLE 500 to Pre-Algebra might not be too much of a stretch with some programs (say, Lial's Basic College Math), but straight to AoPS Pre-Algebra? Yipes!

 

You can always order the book & see for yourself, though. I think Dereksurfs ordered a copy (perhaps it was Intro to Algebra instead of Pre-Algebra?) to see if he wanted to use it with his oldest. (Derek uses CLE with his youngers, so you could PM him and see what he thought of CLE 500 to AoPS Pre-Algebra).

 

Thank you!! Looking more into the samples, I think you're right. I will stick with my plan for now, since CLE has been working so well for her. No reason to mess with a good thing. I'm still thinking about BA vs. Singapore for my 3rd grader, though, to possibly get him on track for AoPS in 6th?

[wapiti]

Thank you, that helps a lot. I think you're right, that she's just not a good candidate and/or not ready for AoPS. I will try Alcumus with her though!

 

It can't hurt to try Alcumus just to see how she fares (perhaps she'll surprise you) and Alcumus is a great addition to any program anyway. Once you set the subject to prealgebra and click "change topic," you should see a number of topics that may be within her grasp - choose topics she has been taught or has at least watched the videos for. As she solves problems, the difficulty level goes up. When the topic is "passed", the bar turns light green and it will move on to another topic. Set it to "follow the book" if you'd like the order of topics to be the same as the book. Some kids really like Alcumus - it can be addictive, in a really good way :).

[dereksurfs]

There have been quite a few threads on moving from CLE 600 or 700 to Pre-Algebra (this is my mega post with threads). Going from CLE 500 to Pre-Algebra might not be too much of a stretch with some programs (say, Lial's Basic College Math), but straight to AoPS Pre-Algebra? Yipes!

 

You can always order the book & see for yourself, though. I think Dereksurfs ordered a copy (perhaps it was Intro to Algebra instead of Pre-Algebra?) to see if he wanted to use it with his oldest. (Derek uses CLE with his youngers, so you could PM him and see what he thought of CLE 500 to AoPS Pre-Algebra).

 

 

Yes, we use CLE and also AoPS. First of all I would not jump from CLE 500 to AoPS Pre-A as was already stated by Wapiti. I agree with everything she said regrading level of difficulty and fit for a non-mathy child. Even for ds11 who is math oriented AoPS Pre-A was too much for him last year. So we used TabletClass Pre-Algebra instead which is also challenging BTW. After finishing TC Pre-A he was much more prepared for AoPS Intro to Algebra which he is doing now.

 

I recommend continuing with CLE 600, then consider other Pre-A programs. Why skip a whole year of math with a non-mathy child? Better would be to supplement with Hands on Equations (HOE) to begin introducing abstract reasoning skills. Or use other supplementals such as Alcumus during 6th grade. That would be more than enough for her.

 

Just curious why you want to change from CLE? Any reason for her not to continue with it for Pre-Algebra (700, 800), then switching? I'm considering having dds continue with it until then since they do well with CLE. However there are a lot of good Pre-A choices to consider. TT would not be one we would consider for a variety of reasons. Though for some it seems to work through high school.

[I.Dup.]

Yes, we use CLE and also AoPS. First of all I would not jump from CLE 500 to AoPS Pre-A as was already stated by Wapiti. I agree with everything she said regrading level of difficulty and fit for a non-mathy child. Even for ds11 who is math oriented AoPS Pre-A was too much for him last year. So we used TabletClass Pre-Algebra instead which is also challenging BTW. After finishing TC Pre-A he was much more prepared for AoPS Intro to Algebra which he is doing now.

 

I recommend continuing with CLE 600, then consider other Pre-A programs. Why skip a whole year of math with a non-mathy child? Better would be to supplement with Hands on Equations (HOE) to begin introducing abstract reasoning skills. Or use other supplementals such as Alcumus during 6th grade. That would be more than enough for her.

 

Just curious why you want to change from CLE? Any reason for her not to continue with it for Pre-Algebra (700, 800), then switching? I'm considering having dds continue with it until then since they do well with CLE. However there are a lot of good Pre-A choices to consider. TT would not be one we would consider for a variety of reasons. Though for some it seems to work through high school.

 

Thank you! So CLE 700-800 counts as pre-algebra? What would you recommend I do after that? Do you think she could be ready for AoPS at that point, even if we don't supplement with anything else? The AoPS videos look really good, but that Tablet Class looks intimidating and very time consuming! Did you use Tablet Class as a supplement or the main curriculum?

 

I think I was just swayed with all of the AoPS talk around here, but there's no reason to switch from a really good thing (CLE). I just want to make sure my kids have a strong foundation in math and I think I was second guessing myself.

 

For my soon-to-be 3rd grader, is there a reason I should switch him to MM from Singapore? It is getting harder for me to teach Singapore to him, I don't find it very teacher friendly. Or should I switch him over to CLE for 3rd grade and use that system for my kids (CLE, then possibly AoPS after 800 level?) Thanks for the help!

[dereksurfs]

Thank you! So CLE 700-800 counts as pre-algebra? What would you recommend I do after that? Do you think she could be ready for AoPS at that point, even if we don't supplement with anything else? The AoPS videos look really good, but that Tablet Class looks intimidating and very time consuming! Did you use Tablet Class as a supplement or the main curriculum?

 

I think I was just swayed with all of the AoPS talk around here, but there's no reason to switch from a really good thing (CLE). I just want to make sure my kids have a strong foundation in math and I think I was second guessing myself.

 

For my soon-to-be 3rd grader, is there a reason I should switch him to MM from Singapore? It is getting harder for me to teach Singapore to him, I don't find it very teacher friendly. Or should I switch him over to CLE for 3rd grade and use that system for my kids (CLE, then possibly AoPS after 800 level?) Thanks for the help!

 

You're welcome. I would stay with CLE for your older daughter as its a solid program. It doesn't sound like there is any good reason to jump ship quite yet. 700-800 is pre-A. After that there are many choices for secondary math covering Algebra and beyond. AoPS is probably the hardest, most challenging program of them all. As such it is not a good fit for all kids, nor is it necessary! For some its fantastic. However if there was ever a program where one size *doesn't* fit all this is it.

 

The real key to all of this is to consider each child's unique skills, abilities and learning styles *first.* Then tailor their math program accordingly taking into consideration your own needs as a parent/teacher as well. In our case we are taking different paths for our daughters as they are not as math inclined as ds11. They may not use AoPS at all but rather something else more middle of the road in terms of level of challenge with more direct instruction. I think there are many other very solid programs out there. Also I take things one subject at a time at the secondary level rather than trying to find *one* curriculum I can use throughout all high school, especially for all our children. That opens up many more possibilities for tailoring. In looking at Algebra I would suggest exploring these to begin with after CLE or another Pre-A:

 

Foerster with Math without Borders lessons

Jacobs with lessons from Ask Dr. Callahan if needed

TabletClass - it's very affordable and independent

Derek Owens - a little more expensive but highly recommended

Jann in Texas - also highly recommended

AoPS - this for the more math gifted child who like to wrestle with difficult problems

 

BTW, TabletClass is very user friendly. ds11 was 90+% independent using it this past year with a little help from me when he had questions. The lessons are very clear with step-by-step video explanations of the solutions to the problems. Though as I mentioned earlier it can be challenging. For ds11 TC Pre-A was that just right challenge he needed. TC and many other offer free samples, videos and trials which you should take advantage of during the evaluation phase. I highly recommend including your children as a contributors in the evaluation process. This helps them gain a sense of ownership in their new program and provides you with valuable info on things which work for them best.

[boscopup]

I think I was just swayed with all of the AoPS talk around here, but there's no reason to switch from a really good thing (CLE). I just want to make sure my kids have a strong foundation in math and I think I was second guessing myself.

 

AoPS is usually talked about for kids gifted in math that are zooming through regular curriculum and need to be challenged a LOT more. It is not suggested for the average student by any means. It is especially not suggested for a struggling student. Your DD does not sound like a good candidate for AoPS at all, and I would not even think about using it for her at this point. I'd stick with CLE while it's working. They'll be having Algebra and eventually maybe even Geometry, I think? After that, you can pick any regular text with video instruction if necessary. Or if you want to switch for prealgebra, do CLE 600 and then any prealgebra text.

 

I'm running through AoPS Prealgebra myself before my son starts it this summer. I love the book, but it is definitely more than a normal prealgebra program. It has a lot of contest math problems and tricky problems that really make you think. It's great for a student who needs those types of problems. Most students don't need them. I'm good at math and have taken up through differential equations and linear algebra. I've learned some things in the Prealgebra book. Most of it is review for me, of course, but there are some things that have made me go, "Aha!" Some things I was taught, but not until algebra or later.

 

You can get a strong foundation in math without ever touching AoPS. :)

 

For your younger son... If you are struggling with teaching the Standards Edition with HIGs, I'd take a look at Math in Focus student texts and see if you understand those. Some people have liked them better because more instruction is in the student text. If you go to this site, you can sign up to see the entire contents of every book online through their virtual sampling. Math in Focus is the Americanized version of a newer program they're using in Singapore now, so it's still Singapore math. If your son needs more challenge, you can always add CWP on top of it from the regular Singapore programs. As far as CLE goes, I know it would be a bad fit for my mathy son. He does best with learning a new concept and then practicing that concept until it's mastered (the number of problems in the Singapore workbook are perfect for him to master it), and then review occasionally. CLE has most of the lesson as review problems. That would bore my son. I don't know if your son is the same. Some mathy kids do well with CLE, but most do better with a more mastery type program, where they can easily accelerate through if needed.

 

Btw, I like CLE. My friend uses it with her daughter. They had to go back an entire grade level when pulling her out of school, because she just.did.not.get.math. The school had done a horrible job teaching her. Thanks to CLE, this girl is now confident in her math abilities, she sometimes figures out new math concepts before they're taught completely, and I think she even likes math a bit now. :) I wouldn't dream of putting her in AoPS. It would probably completely kill her confidence in math. She needs math to be presented in a straightforward manner, and I think she actually does a bit better if she learns the procedure first, THEN the "why" behind it. CLE has been a great fit for her, and she's now just about caught up to grade level in CLE (though on standardized testing last year, she did *very* well in the math sections, even though she was still almost a year "behind" her grade level in CLE... and her public school friends haven't learned many of the things that she has learned this year, so I think she's actually ahead of her grade level compared to her public school).

[kiana]

What everyone else said:

AOPS is for super mathy kids who love math. It could work with a moderately mathy kid who loves math or with a super mathy kid who's ambivalent.

 

There are loads of other programs which provide solid conceptual instruction and an excellent foundation for the future (even for STEM majors) which would be much more suitable for a less mathy kid.

 

Personal recommendation: Finish CLE through pre-algebra. Re-evaluate at that point and find a good algebra program.

[8filltheheart]

Just echoing the other replies. AoPS is not for every student, even strong advanced math students.

 

AoPS was a good fit for our ds. His sister, otoh, who is very good in math, didn't like AoPS at all. She completed MUS's alg/geo in 6th and Foerster's alg in 7th. We had tried AoPs early spring of 6th, but she didn't like it. She finished Foerster's very early 2nd semester of 7th and her brother convinced her to try it again. We signed her up for the online class and she breezed through the work with little difficulty (by this time it was her 3rd alg course). While she did great, she still did not like the approach and told me she wanted to stick with traditional math teaching approaches vs. the AoPS approach.

 

So that is what we are doing. She is not being short-changed by not doing AoPS. Truly, most students have absolutely no need to take math like AoPS. The math courses she is taking are solid application oriented maths.

[crazyforlatin]

 

 

and I think she actually does a bit better if she learns the procedure first, THEN the "why" behind it. CLE has been a great fit for her, and she's now just about caught up to grade level in CLE (though on standardized testing last year, she did *very* well in the math sections, even though she was still almost a year "behind" her grade level in CLE... and her public school friends haven't learned many of the things that she has learned this year, so I think she's actually ahead of her grade level compared to her public school).

 

 

From what you've seen with your friend's daughter, and perhaps CLE, can you clarify whether CLE is more procedural than conceptual? Does it teach the procedure before explaining the concept? I'm on the verge of ordering CLE 700 just to see if I can give something to Dd on those days when we are not using AOPS Pre-A.

 

I.dup, I have a younger child using AOPS Pre-A. I give her about 5 problems each time, and that's about all the math for that day. There are no drills, barely any extra problems for practicing a concept. We don't use Alcumus and I doubt I can give DD access considering that I need the iPad and my laptop for work, so I can't share them with her for long periods of time. So, each problem basically serves the purpose of 10-20 drill problems. Each problem delves deeply to the point where further drilling would be unnecessary. However, I have a younger child so daily use of AOPS while invigorating can be draining. I need to give her downtime by using other math books. I'm sure for an older child there wouldn't be a need for this.

 

ETA: Just trying to be more accurate with how I see AOPS Pre-A.

[crazyforlatin]

Double post

[regentrude]

Why would you want to use AoPS for a student whom you have characterized as "non mathy"?

AoPS is specifically designed for students who love math and are good at it and want to go broader and deeper than with any traditional math curriculum. With some effort, it may be adapted to work with an average student; it will be disastrous for a struggling one.

 

AoPS is a stand alone program; most people do not use it as a supplement.

[boscopup]

From what you've seen with your friend's daughter, and perhaps CLE, can you clarify whether CLE is more procedural than conceptual? Does it teach the procedure before explaining the concept? I'm on the verge of ordering CLE 700 just to see if I can give something to Dd on those days when we are not using AOPS Pre-A.

 

 

The concepts are taught. They're not revisited like in Singapore, but they are taught. I think sometimes it's in the lead-up to the concept, and sometimes they teach the procedure, then teach why it works. Of course, this is all going on vague memory of what my friend has told me in the past, and I could be completely wrong. :lol:

[nrself]

Since we've got all the "mathy parents" here, I've got a few questions as well. :)

 

Firstly, I've noticed Derek and some others talking about using different programs from prealgebra and up. Is this something everyone agrees with? I would have thought it would be better to choose one and stay with it (assuming its a good fit) so that nothing is missed.

 

Secondly, I'm also curriculum shopping. My ds is 12 and 2E. He is a logical, mathy, gifted IQ, VSP dyslexic. I know it gets lots of criticism, but Saxon is his current math program. He's completing Saxon 7/6 this year. I prefer the spiral review. We can live with the way Saxon stretches out a concept over several lessons. The thing I don't like about Saxon is the lack of thorough explanations of WHY whatever works.

 

I was valedictorian and did well in high school math, but was lost in College Algebra. I was not mathy like ds, but based on my experiences I want to be sure ds curriculum has plenty of the WHY explanation and practice deciding when to apply each concept. (Which I think the spiral approach gives.)

 

I've read lots of other posts about Foerster's, Jacobs, Lials, etc. being more rigorous texts. But when I've looked at what samples are available, I'm not really seeing the WHY I'd like to see. I've looked at AOPS too and am impressed, but I'm concerned that my ds is just not that driven. The only thing he truly loves is video games. ;)

 

So what are your thoughts? Thanks!

Nicole

[I.Dup.]

They had to go back an entire grade level when pulling her out of school, because she just.did.not.get.math. The school had done a horrible job teaching her. Thanks to CLE, this girl is now confident in her math abilities, she sometimes figures out new math concepts before they're taught completely, and I think she even likes math a bit now. :)

 

That is exactly what happened with my dd. She was at least one grade level behind after we tried Singapore with her. She just did NOT get it or retain anything. Switching to CLE has been great for her. Math isn't her favorite subject by any means, but she gets it now.

 

Why would you want to use AoPS for a student whom you have characterized as "non mathy"?

AoPS is specifically designed for students who love math and are good at it and want to go broader and deeper than with any traditional math curriculum. With some effort, it may be adapted to work with an average student; it will be disastrous for a struggling one.

 

AoPS is a stand alone program; most people do not use it as a supplement.

 

This is what I was not aware of, I was thinking I could supplement with it to go deeper with her, but I now realize I was mistaken.

 

Thank you all!

[crazyforlatin]

 

 

That is exactly what happened with my dd. She was at least one grade level behind after we tried Singapore with her. She just did NOT get it or retain anything. Switching to CLE has been great for her. Math isn't her favorite subject by any means, but she gets it now.

 

 

 

This is what I was not aware of, I was thinking I could supplement with it to go deeper with her, but I now realize I was mistaken.

 

Thank you all!

 

 

From what I've been reading, I like levels 700 and 800, but I can't tell whether it's more procedural or conceptual at the beginning of a lesson, but if CLE explains the why somewhere in the lesson, I would continue with it. If CLE has given your daughter confidence in math, I would stick with it. There is no need to use AOPS Pre-A. Many moms here didn't use it since it wasn't available until recently, but they have used subsequent levels, so obviously, there are other Pre-A math books that can prepare children for AOPS algebra.

[dereksurfs]

Since we've got all the "mathy parents" here, I've got a few questions as well. :)

 

Firstly, I've noticed Derek and some others talking about using different programs from prealgebra and up. Is this something everyone agrees with? I would have thought it would be better to choose one and stay with it (assuming its a good fit) so that nothing is missed.

 

Nicole, there are obvious benefits to having an all-in-one math program for ease of use and consistency during the middle and high school years. However that said there are so many great programs once at the secondary level. Some of these are not all-in-ones. And certain programs/texts are better known for specific subjects such as Algebra or Geometry. So to limit one's choices to only all-in-ones means these other excellent options could not be considered even if a course would better fit a child's learning style. In addition once at the secondary level these subjects (Algebra, Geometry, Trig, Calculus, etc...) can stand on their own more as long as the prerequisites are met. To address gaps one simply needs to evaluate scope and sequence of both courses. Then if a true gap exists this can be supplemented within reason of course. For example one couldn't easily jump from MUS or TT algebra 1 to AOPS Algebra II. This has less to do with scope, though scope issues exist, and more to do with rigor of one program over another. Most programs at a certain level of rigor such as Foerster, Dolciani, Lials, etc... will also cover similar scopes. I created a matrix comparing S&S for several of these programs which you can see here if interested: https://docs.google....psdUQ2cFE#gid=0

 

This opens up many more options like taking an online Geometry course from Derek Owens for example. Now within many of these programs you can take more than one course if you are more comfortable with that. For example with AoPS you can use it for just Algebra or all secondary math depending on fit.

 

Secondly, I'm also curriculum shopping. My ds is 12 and 2E. He is a logical, mathy, gifted IQ, VSP dyslexic. I know it gets lots of criticism, but Saxon is his current math program. He's completing Saxon 7/6 this year. I prefer the spiral review. We can live with the way Saxon stretches out a concept over several lessons. The thing I don't like about Saxon is the lack of thorough explanations of WHY whatever works.

 

I was valedictorian and did well in high school math, but was lost in College Algebra. I was not mathy like ds, but based on my experiences I want to be sure ds curriculum has plenty of the WHY explanation and practice deciding when to apply each concept. (Which I think the spiral approach gives.)

 

I've read lots of other posts about Foerster's, Jacobs, Lials, etc. being more rigorous texts. But when I've looked at what samples are available, I'm not really seeing the WHY I'd like to see. I've looked at AOPS too and am impressed, but I'm concerned that my ds is just not that driven. The only thing he truly loves is video games. ;)

 

So what are your thoughts? Thanks!

Nicole

 

This last one is harder to answer and will depend more on your ds including his learning style and readiness for something like AoPS. He can be a very gifted math student and still not like AoPS or be a good fit for it as some have found. But if you think there is a possible fit I would recommend at least considering it. It is worth the money on the book to at least give it a shot. They have a great resale value BTW. I can tell you that while most do not use AoPS to supplement we did for Pre-A. ds11 was just not ready for AoPS at the Pre-A stage. It was enough to be developing abstract reasoning skills with solid direct instruction via TabletClass. However I did use AoPS's free Pre-A video lessons and sample chapter on linear equations with him to supplement his primary program. Others use Alcumus as a supplemental as well. So what I'm saying is it doesn't have to be all or nothing. And sometimes easing into AoPS is a good way to prepare for it as we found.

[I.Dup.]

I have another question. I just read that in another thread that Algebra is expected in 8th grade now so a student can complete Calculus by 12th. Is it necessary to do CLE 700-800 if both years cover pre-algebra? Or do you think I could switch to an Algebra program after 700?

 

ETA: I am reading through Root Ann's mega thread linked above and see that there are already answers to the question I am asking in her CLE mega thread, thank you!!

[dereksurfs]

I have another question. I just read that in another thread that Algebra is expected in 8th grade now so a student can complete Calculus by 12th. Is it necessary to do CLE 700-800 if both years cover pre-algebra? Or do you think I could switch to an Algebra program after 700?

 

ETA: I am reading through Root Ann's mega thread linked above and see that there are already answers to the question I am asking in her CLE mega thread, thank you!!

 

I've looked at this quite a bit since I've asked myself this same question for our dds. After evaluating the S&S of CLE 700 & 800 I don't think skipping either 'entirely' would be a good idea since they were designed to both comprise Pre-Algebra. I know parents have done this because of time limitations. But I just don't think that is a good enough reason to skip, especially when they cover different topics. Here is the breakdown of these courses which you can evaluate yourself: http://www.clp.org/d...e_2012-2013.pdf

 

That's not to say certain portions couldn't be skipped like sections on consumer math or accelerated which I may do. I don't think I'd spend a full 2 years going through these courses. Our dds already go through one course quicker as it is. Here is a quote from another thread on parents asking about skipping certain portions of CLE 700 & 800:

 

"After looking over the S&S I'm not sure what I would do if we continue with CLE for Pre-Algebra. While I agree there is some overlap between 7 & 8, I wouldn't want to skip something important either. For example if one skipped 710 they would miss the intro lesson to graphing linear equations, though without the book its hard to tell how thorough that is. Then if CLE 8 was skipped entirely it would never be covered at all. Similarly the Pythagorean Theorem would never be covered either which only gets introduded in CLE 802.

 

I would most likely use a combination of CLE 7 & 8 if we go this route for Pre-A since many of the Pre-A concepts in CLE 802-807 are not covered in CLE 7. I probably would skip the trig and consumer math toward the end of CLE 8. That can wait.

 

I guess we'll wait and see. While our girls really like CLE for the elementary years, ds11 is really enjoying TabletClass Pre-A right now. So that will be a consideration for them as well. We also have the Dolciani and Lial Pre-A textbooks to compare." -- http://forums.welltr...math-discovery/