Asking for a friend... Help with curriculum for "gifted and talented" child w/ hyperactivity

[m0mmaBuck]

My neighbor is raising her grandchildren. She recently withdrew her 1st grader from PS because things weren't going well for him. He is bright (reads at 5th grade level, does 2nd grade math), but has behavior issues at school that they simply do not see at home. She enrolled him in a local PS-linked co-op of sorts but they don't plan to use it again next year because co-op is switching to a more classroom-style set up (due to changes in ALE regulations) and he doesn't do well in that setting.

 

She has been doing research about kids that are "gifted and talented" flavored with hyperactivity and now she feels like she really doesn't know what to do. She is hoping to design a curriculum that keeps him engaged. She is concerned about keeping him on track for success later on.

 

What suggestions do you have for her?

[Arcadia]

He is bright (reads at 5th grade level, does 2nd grade math), but has behavior issues at school that they simply do not see at home.

 

I would assume he is bored in school rather than hyperactive, especially when the behavior issues are only at school. Some kids act out when bored, some kids switch off. If he is reading at that level, I would go for the living books approach instead of boxed curriculum.

Is she asking for the rest of 1st grade or for 2nd grade? Also what are her goals for spelling, handwriting, literature as well as whether she prefers secular or religious based. And what subjects does she want to cover besides the 3Rs.

[kiwik]

I agree; if he is gifted it may not be hyperactivity. I would hop over to the accelerated learners board and ask there.

[Mandy in TN]

Definitely ask on the accelerated board.

 

If he likes to read, then another vote for literature-based curriculum. If he reads at a high level but doesn't love to read, that is a little trickier- something that requires him to think more deeply without having the feel of busy work. With math, why not get Singapore or another mastery program and let him move through at whatever pace he likes?

 

Mandy

[m0mmaBuck]

I would assume he is bored in school rather than hyperactive, especially when the behavior issues are only at school. Some kids act out when bored, some kids switch off. If he is reading at that level, I would go for the living books approach instead of boxed curriculum.

Is she asking for the rest of 1st grade or for 2nd grade? Also what are her goals for spelling, handwriting, literature as well as whether she prefers secular or religious based. And what subjects does she want to cover besides the 3Rs.

 

 

Good point about bored vs. hyperactive. My son acted out in PS because he was bored, and for anyone who knows him that is a very strange thing indeed. I have sent her an email with your pointed questions and hope to hear from her today so I can post the answers.

 

I agree; if he is gifted it may not be hyperactivity. I would hop over to the accelerated learners board and ask there.

 

 

 

Thanks! I will cross-post the question.

 

Definitely ask on the accelerated board.

 

If he likes to read, then another vote for literature-based curriculum. If he reads at a high level but doesn't love to read, that is a little trickier- something that requires him to think more deeply without having the feel of busy work. With math, why not get Singapore or another mastery program and let him move through at whatever pace he likes?

 

Mandy

 

 

I have a son who reads at a higher level but does not enjoy reading so I understand pefectly what you are saying. I will ask her if he enjoys it. And mastery for math sounds like the ticket for sure.

 

 

I will post again when I hear back from her. Thank you!

[Candid]

Besides being bored it is also possible in some schools even at this young age that some bullying is going on over his gits shining out. Over time a gifted child needs to learn appropriate class room behavior in terms of dominating a discussion or answer session. In the wrong class the learning time for this could be problematic.

[amyrobynne]

My boys (3rd and 1st grade) pretty much fit that description -- many grades above level in reading, somewhat above for math, but trouble staying still in school. We took them out to start homeschooling this past fall.

 

I figured that they both loved to read, so we would read books to cover as much as possible. For history, we do a combination of read-alouds and giving them books to read on their own. We talk about them but don't do any formal comprehension questions. My 7 year old can build Brio train setups and draw complicated things while I'm reading and spit back to me everything we read and I know it's sinking in without forcing them to sit still for hours.

 

We started the year with Saxon math and all got terribly bored. Singapore has been particularly good for my 7 year old who wanted to do everything mentally anyway and now is supposed to. Beast Academy has been a good addition for my 3rd grader who bores of endless black and white problems on a page and loves the graphic novel approach.

 

We're doing FLL3 with my oldest this semester and switching to Michael Clay Thompson's language arts next year. The repetition in FLL gets a lot of eye rolls from him.

 

BFSU vol 1 has been great, even though we started with older kids because we can go as deeply as they want and skip the things they know already. My husband teaches science and they had pretty good science backgrounds already.

 

Mostly, I try not to make them sit at the table for long periods, or at least break it up with other things. I'm letting them go on tangents if we're all learning. Just being able to sleep on their natural schedules has helped with their behavior.

[TechWife]

I think she should work on the behavior issues primarily. Social skills classes, social skills books, etc. so that he can learn how to manage himself. Give him time to learn and mature in these areas before he goes much further in his academics.

 

If he's reading on a fifth grade level, make sure he's comprehending on a fifth grade level as well. Play a lot of games - math, science, history, etc..

 

Give him the time and training he needs to mature socially before he is pushed academically. Young kids aren't as self conscious about these things, so they are easier to teach. The older he gets, the greater the need for social skills and the less likely he is to cooperate in learning them.

 

No matter how smart he is, he will not be successful if he can't operate in the world around him - success is determined by much more than academics.

[songsparrow]

I think she should work on the behavior issues primarily. Social skills classes, social skills books, etc. so that he can learn how to manage himself. Give him time to learn and mature in these areas before he goes much further in his academics.

 

 

I have to disagree with this a bit. First, I'd evaluate whether he really has any significant social skills issues. If the issues only occurred in the classroom, and he does fine socially in other situations, then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Second, while I wouldn't push him academically (actually, you probably won't have to), I also wouldn't attempt to hold him back in any way. Feed his interests with rich materials and let him progress at his own pace. Let him learn, and enjoy learning.

[TechWife]

I have to disagree with this a bit. First, I'd evaluate whether he really has any significant social skills issues. If the issues only occurred in the classroom, and he does fine socially in other situations, then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

If he had classroom behavior issues, he has social skills issues and they are likely showing up in other areas as well. Classroom behavior issues are indicative of a child who does not understand or exhibit appropriate behavior in a particular situation - that is a social skill. A person must know how to behave in a variety of different situations. If the student isn't taking behavior cues from fellow students and teachers, then IMHO, there are social skills deficits.

 

Think of it on an adult level: if one goes to the symphony and talks during the performance, claps between movements and get up to leave in the middle of a piece, there are social skills deficits. In the case of the symphony, these deficits can be brought up to speed through observation, research and direct instruction. A person who cannot make it through a symphony concert with appropriate behavior will disrupt others who are attending the performance and may in fact, result in the person being escorted out of the concert hall. These are all behaviors specific to attending a symphony, but if one is going to attend a symphony, then one needs to know what to do and what not to do. Likewise, if one is misbehaving in a classroom, then there is something they don't understand or they don't have the maturity to apply general social skills to a specific situation.

 

Many gifted children have difficulties with social skills, it is not at all uncommon. The best time to teach them is while they are young & willing to learn.

 

A student who talks out of turn, displays inappropriate emotions or otherwise disrupts the classroom does not have good social skills (I'm just using those for an example as the OP didn't state what the problems are). Translate these behaviors into the work world and you have a person who can't hold down a job, not for a lack of technical expertise or specialized knowledge, but because they don't know how to manage themselves in a given situation.

 

Second, while I wouldn't push him academically (actually, you probably won't have to), I also wouldn't attempt to hold him back in any way. Feed his interests with rich materials and let him progress at his own pace. Let him learn, and enjoy learning.

 

 

I don't think he should be held back academically, either. But, there is more than meets the eye when it comes to mastering material. Rich materials abound, however, if a student doesn't have the critical thinking ability to understand what he is reading or observing - that is what needs to be nurtured through experience. An emphasis on academic knowledge (just the facts, ma'm) can shortchange the nurturing of these thinking and relational skills.

 

I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to read or explore freely, I am saying that honing in on one or two areas of interest and using them to develop thinking and relational skills is a worthwhile endeavor and should not be overlooked. So, allow the free reading and interest led exploration, but be intentional about teaching these other skills so that the student can take what he has learned and when the context is appropriate, apply that knowledge in a variety of situations.

[songsparrow]

If he had classroom behavior issues, he has social skills issues and they are likely showing up in other areas as well.

 

I think we have insufficient information to make this judgment.

 

I have first-hand experience with a child who had "issues" in only one particular classroom setting. None of those "social skills issues" showed up in any other setting - including other classroom settings. Thus, my conclusion was that the problem had more to do with that setting than with the child.

 

If a child is being forced, for 6-7 hours a day 5 days a week, into a setting that is failing to meet the child's needs and stressing the child, he may well begin to exhibit "issues" as his only means of coping with the situation.

 

The same could be true with the OP's neighbor's grandchild, and my recommendation to the OP's neighbor is to evaluate whether these issues recur in other settings or not. If they do not, I would not worry about them.

[RoundAbout]

 

 

If a child is being forced, for 6-7 hours a day 5 days a week, into a setting that is failing to meet the child's needs and stressing the child, he may well begin to exhibit "issues" as his only means of coping with the situation.

 

 

I agree.

 

The symphony analogy doesn't work for me because its a voluntary activity of short duration. I know plenty of adults who hate classical music and so they simply don't go to those kind of events. And even if a spouse forced them to attend they could probably keep it together for a few hours without obvious yawning or a glance at the watch because they know it will end. That's far different than being forced into a hated situation all day, five times a week. Most adults I know would exhibit poor behavior in that situation, let alone a first grader. A hated job is probably a better analogy, but adults receive compensation for their time and are free to quit or try to improve their situation.

 

I've also never met a perfectly behaved child, so in some sense they all have social deficits. That's why they are children. An evaluation might be in order, but I would work on getting needs met at home first. Putting academics on the back burner could make things worse, especially for a gifted child. Most kids like that I know are far easier to work with if they are getting their intellectual needs met. Of course he has to eventually learn to deal with a classroom situation and teaching that is not tailored to him but there are many, many years to grow into that.

[TechWife]

 

The symphony analogy doesn't work for me because its a voluntary activity of short duration. I know plenty of adults who hate classical music and so they simply don't go to those kind of events. And even if a spouse forced them to attend they could probably keep it together for a few hours without obvious yawning or a glance at the watch because they know it will end. That's far different than being forced into a hated situation all day, five times a week. Most adults I know would exhibit poor behavior in that situation, let alone a first grader. A hated job is probably a better analogy, but adults receive compensation for their time and are free to quit or try to improve their situation.

 

The symphony example is simply an example of knowing how to behave in a given social situation. Like school. Yes, a hated job is a better analogy if you want to compare apples to apples. However, hated or not, a well equipped adult knows how to behave at work.

 

I've also never met a perfectly behaved child, so in some sense they all have social deficits. That's why they are children. An evaluation might be in order, but I would work on getting needs met at home first. Putting academics on the back burner could make things worse, especially for a gifted child. Most kids like that I know are far easier to work with if they are getting their intellectual needs met. Of course he has to eventually learn to deal with a classroom situation and teaching that is not tailored to him but there are many, many years to grow into that.

 

I actually never said to put academics on the back burner. I said that I think social skills are a priority at this age. One lays the groundwork to "grow into" a classroom situation at a very early age. It isn't about knowing when to raise your hand, it's about self control and respect for others, learning how to read body language, etc.. The groundwork should be laid at a young age.

[RoundAbout]

However, hated or not, a well equipped adult knows how to behave at work.

 

 

Sure, and when there is no benefit to them they can also quit. A school child cannot except through acting out and making life difficult for the adults who control their lives.

 

When my son was 5, we put him in ski school so that DH and I could ski bigger runs and have some grown up time on vacation. With dad he was skiing blue runs with poles, but in class he spent most of the day skiing a 10 foot ramp with an hour on the bunny slope and one big green run at then end. He was fine the first day, but by day 2 he was bored out of his mind, tried to make it more interesting to himself by doing his own thing, and eventually acted up so much we had to take him out of the class. He went back to skiing with dad and was both challenged and well behaved.

 

The class was completely inappropriate for him and there was not another because the more advanced classes required children to be 6. It would have been convenient for us if he had put up with being taught way below his level, but I saw no reason to see it as a social deficit or make an issue of it. My son is young, and I have no doubt by the time he is 9 or 12 or 15 he'll be able to both find a ski class at his ability level and tolerate more boredom.

 

I have no idea what kind of social issues the OP is talking about, but based on the above experience I do believe that young children can be acting out solely because the instructional level is beneath them.