My entering the high school years nervous breakdown...

[LNC]

Edited for privacy...

I homeschool 2 of my 4 children - rising 9th and 7th...

 

........Problem: PEERS!

We homeschool entirely AT HOME. Almost all teen relationships around here occur through coops or university model schools....

 

So, my nervous breakdown is that in spite of all our efforts at forming a unique family culture, I feel like I'm losing the battle with peer pressure. I don't want to drag them down the path towards academic excellence for college admission while they are whining about not having friends and that all the cliques are from this "school". Does anyone have any advice? I am so discouraged, I want to give up...

[Jane in NC]

Hugs...

 

I'm out the door but I cannot leave without saying that (almost) everyone has their high school nervous breakdowns at various points of the journey. But that is not helpful...

 

Do you have a vibrant 4-H organization in your county? 4-H teen activities go beyond the county level to the district and the state. I have to say that 4-H really provided the best quality time with teens for my son. They did community service projects together, took snow boarding lessons together, had their overnights and retreats.

 

If a friendship is based on a clique, it is not a real friendship. I don't think teens realize that true friends are not necessarily plentiful--and one does not need a posse.

 

Breaking with the co-op will be less painful if there are other opportunities for socialization.

 

Good luck and more hugs.

Jane

[Nan in Mass]

LNC - I know this probably helpful, but many things seem impossible at the beginning of high school and then things shift and the seem not so impossible. Finding a group of open-hearted friends with similar goals and interests is something high schoolers often struggle with, whether homeschooling or not. I agree with Jane that if you could find other activities first and then, when your children are established there, suggest dropping the coop and switching to things that are in line with your long term goals, the switch might go better. Mostly, I just wanted to offer lots of hugs.

 

Nan

[LNC]

Thanks Jane and Nan.

 

Just wanted to restate bc I was rambling in my op, we have never taken an outside class or coop. That is why they feel left out.

[Brenda in MA]

LNC,

 

I feel your pain. My now college son felt very isolated and alone during homeschool high school. He had youth group and scouts, but it really wasn't enough. I did not enroll him in a local 2x/week program at the time because its academic goals didn't meet mine. Now, with younger son, I've decided that the peer issues are real, and he is going to the 2x/week program, but he's taking only 1 class, and it is academically very good. It's probably not what I would have taught at home, but the small sacrifice in this area is worth it. So he won't have any AP English scores because this places doesn't teach to AP, but his SAT reading & writing were very strong.

 

I'd say take a deep breath and re-examine your academic goals for your kiddos in light of their need for meaningful peer relationships. It think it can be hard to read posts here and not think that every child is doing multiple SAT2s, APs, etc, and without these your kiddo has no shot at ranked colleges or scholarships. I know that this isn't true. My oldest had no AP courses, 2 CC classes, and 2 reasonable (but not great) SAT2 scores when he applied for engineering. He got in everywhere, got scholarship offers at 6 of the 8 places, and he's done great there. My next one will have similar things, but with a few more on-line courses, no SAT2s but a couple APs, and the courses at the 2x/week place. I know he'll make out fine as well.

 

If you read some of the other posts about high school, you'll probably find some from me where I talk about one of my biggest discoveries about high school homeschoool -- and that is that your student just can't do it all. What I mean is that if you try to do the most academically rigorous course in every subject, either you'll fail or the student will be so burned out that he/she won't have time for anything else. It's just not worth it. I advise folks with kids entering high school to take stock of their kids' abilities, talents, and interests and make some conscious decisions about which subjects to pursue very thoroughly and which ones will just be "get er done". This decision can change year to year during high school as well. Try to think about the child's record as a whole and what types of outside validation he/she might have. Some mix of on-line, CCs, SAT2s, and APs is probably a good idea, but you don't have to do all of these, and certainly not in every subject.

 

I, personally, do not like SAT2 exams. We've found them to be generally very broad, but cover a specific set of knowledge. To do well, you have to essentially teach to the test, either by using specific texts that cover the right knowledge, or spend a lot time with prep books. You also have the issue that not many kids take SAT2s, and the ones that do are all applying to the most selective colleges, so it is fairly hard to do well on those tests unless your child is a naturally good test-taker -- just some food for thought.

 

In your specific case, I'd suggest looking at the outside/coop place and seeing if there is a way for your children to participate in only 1 or 2 courses per year there. If that can work, then pick subjects where if the academics aren't tippy top, that would probably be OK in the long run. Also think about an on-line course or two that might have academically competitive peers. My youngest has enjoyed several of these for the challenge, but without the face to face time at the 2x/week place, he'd be very unhappy. He is also involved in a number of extracurricular things, but he really hasn't found like-minded friends through these.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[jhschool]

Why can't you sign them up at the Co-op to take fun classes? You can still do

the serious academics at home. You can take classes at the Co-op that would

enrich the learning but wouldn't affect your academics.

 

Then they could be with their friends and you could still homeschool them in what

matters at home.

[Nscribe]

If the question is which matters more, Calculus in high school or being able to make and be friends with others as part of the teen years, the answer for us is friendship. Lonely and accepted to an Ivy League school is not a win for us.

[LNC]

Why can't you sign them up at the Co-op to take fun classes? You can still do

the serious academics at home. You can take classes at the Co-op that would

enrich the learning but wouldn't affect your academics.

 

Then they could be with their friends and you could still homeschool them in what

matters at home.

It is an all or nothing type of program. I wish they would let them sign up for one class!

[LNC]

If the question is which matters more, Calculus in high school or being able to make and be friends with others as part of the teen years, the answer for us is friendship. Lonely and accepted to an Ivy League school is not a win for us.

 

I get your point, but I'm not setting up a false dichotomy between ivy league OR friendships. I never mentioned Ivy League, just state schools and my medium ranked alma mater. But, I have never heard of an engineer who didn't get through calculus in high school.

[Brenda in MA]

Why can't you sign them up at the Co-op to take fun classes? You can still do

the serious academics at home. You can take classes at the Co-op that would

enrich the learning but wouldn't affect your academics.

 

Then they could be with their friends and you could still homeschool them in what

matters at home.

 

 

:iagree:

 

How much time does this coop program take? Is there a way you could sign up (and pay for) the whole thing, and then just pick your kids up after lunch (or at some other break point) so you are essentially passing on the afternoon stuff?

 

If you make your own transcript for your kids, you can control how (and how much) of the outside stuff to include on it. If there is no way this can work, then it is a real shame, I think, that the people who run it cannot be more accommodating.

 

:grouphug: LNC :grouphug: I sure hope you can find some middle ground that can assure your kiddos strong academics and some friendships.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[Nscribe]

I get your point, but I'm not setting up a false dichotomy between ivy league OR friendships. I never mentioned Ivy League, just state schools and my medium ranked alma mater. But, I have never heard of an engineer who didn't get through calculus in high school.

 

 

I must have misunderstood. I thought your daughter was telling you that she wants to do the co-op because she feels left out and wants to take a chance at making friends and although she wants to be academically successful, she doesn't want to feel lonely. My point is that, if my Dd's success academically was so dependent on specific courses that it left her feeling lonely I would have to rethink what success generally is for us.

 

I have learned to have faith in Dd. High School is really more about expanding her knowledge and experience, than ability at this point. If she wound up taking Calculus again in college or even taking College Algebra or Pre-calc...I still am confident she would find her way where she wants and is willing to work to be. Maybe I feel that way because I do know engineers who never had Calculus in high school and many who took various paths to their various successes in various careers.

[LNC]

This is a university model program All day all subjects, 2x week. "Homework" at home 3 days a week.

[Nscribe]

This is a university mode lprogram All day all subjects, 2x week. "Homework" at home 3 days a week.

 

What would it really mean if she did it for a year and had the chance to meet others and see if that is the path to her feeling less lonely? Will one year of high school really be all the difference in terms of her academic goals?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think that one thing that has helped us chart our own path with school is that our outside activities have tended to be independent of homeschool groups and church youth group. So there is one bunch of kids in the local homeschool cross country team, a different group in our medium sized coop, a different group that does Sunday morning youth Bible Study, a totally different group at scouts (almost no overlap with church or homeschooling), and still another group with club swimming (no homeschoolers) and the community volunteering (library & historic site).

 

What I see happening is that the changes in one aspect of their life doesn't mean a global change in the other places they are involved. We look for different connections in different places. The scouts have many high achieving students from the local high school, so it's an ok place to be looking for academic challenges.

 

On the other hand, my sons don't seem to be in the market for a bosom buddy that will be joined at the hip. They are friendly with many, but best friends with few. (That may be in part because we move frequently, where other kids in the area have known each other since kindergarten.)

 

Don't know if my answer makes sense. If you are content with your academics and don't think the local coop situation would be an improvement, my answer would be to broaden the field of potential involvement. I've found some of the most rewarding activities are those where my kids are around more adults or those where they are helping with organization and leadership (coaching intern with swim team, historic site volunteer, Friends of the Library volunteer).

[Jane in NC]

Thanks Jane and Nan.

 

Just wanted to restate bc I was rambling in my op, we have never taken an outside class or coop. That is why they feel left out.

 

Ah, I see that now on the reread. Sorry--I was in a hurry to get out the door earlier today.

 

We began homeschooling when my son was entering 7th grade. There were two co-ops in the area at the time. One offered classes that were not on our spectrum at that moment in time (Spanish, American History, etc. whereas we were following the WTM path) The other was a Friday only arts and crafts thing that seemed more like a socialization time for Moms.

 

The people we knew in the local homeschool community were, for the most part, involved in that first co-op. I think I would have felt more pressure to join if my son had had a good friend in the group. He did not. They were acquaintances although one of the girls would later become one of my son's good friends through 4-H activities.

 

Until our homeschooling venture began, my son had been quite active within the church youth group. There had been an exodus of boys around 6th or 7th grade and the remaining girls were so cliquish! Ugh. He couldn't stand it anymore. That opportunity for socialization went out the window so I sought others. I enrolled him in a once a week art class at a studio. He enjoyed it but after a year was ready to find other things to do. Interestingly, the boys he knew from elementary days were pulled back together in high school--despite their various paths. High school years can be busy. One of my son's friends played football, another wrestled. My son played ice hockey. Every sport has its different season, time requirements, etc. There were months when the group could not collectively meet!

 

LNC, have you investigated Envirothon for your kids? Here in NC, the Soil and Water Conservation Districts sponsor teams. There are loads of homeschoolers involved. It is a great way for the kids to socialize and learn.

[LNC]

I just had a phone meeting with the director. It is expensive, and for sure all day MW. I don't know of a coop near us that allows just a lit/history class, but I would consider that for sure for 7th-10th.

 

My daughter read my notes fro the meeting and said NO WAY! That is progress that she would come to that decision on her own.

 

I just wanted to add that they are in a lot of activities and they do have friends. They just don't have a clique from school or coop. We will plan more sleepovers. I believe that building memories outside of school or coop setting is the key to growing friendships. That was the case when I was their age.

I appreciate what everyone is saying. I will emphasize friendships more!!

[nancy in nj]

I totally get where you are coming from! We moved to NC when my daughter was in 9th grade, and it has been very difficult for her to develop close relationships locally. Most of the female homeschoolers she has met have either been homeschooling for religious/sheltering reasons or radical unschoolers--neither of whom are pursuing serious academics. In hindsight, we probably should have joined the local coop when we moved here just for social reasons. For my dd, taking online courses through PA Homeschoolers has given her a great peer group and very close friendships with academically similar teens. It was so wonderful to find a group of peers to live through the stress of junior year (multiple SAT attempts to get top scores and multiple SAT II's and AP's). This fall she had a whole group of friends to give comments on her college app. essays. Granted most of her interaction is through skype, but these teens talk daily and the friendships are very real and lasting. She gets together with her out-of-state friends as often as possible. Last summer, she was able to spend time with 3 of her close out-of-state friends, and just last month a close friend from Florida had her parents swing 6 hours out of their way to visit her on a college tour. It is very interesting how well these kids get to know each other. It's not ideal, but she is making it work.

 

Based on our experience, having the SAT II and high scores on multiple AP's definitely made the college admission process easier--especially at UNC CH. She not only was accepted but also was invited to Scholarship Day (one of 200 out of 15,000 Early Action applicants) and invited into the honors college. The other homeschooler we know who was also invited to scholarship day has similar academics. UNC CH typically accepts around 40 homeschoolers a year--the other 38 may have done the coop route or taken a different path, but clearly UNC CH rolled out the red carpet for the high scoring SATmultiple SAT II/AP homeschoolers. Officially, these things might not be required but they allow homeschoolers to be directly compared to their traditionally-schooled peers in a way that reliance on coops does not.

[JanetC]

--Removed quote listing activities your DD is curently doing --

 

This sounds like a lot of time out of the house to me... Does she enjoy these activities, even if she isn't finding a close friend there? If she's not enjoying them, you could try changing something up to see if you meet new people.

 

Some kids are just "different", and even if you signed them up for this co-op, they would still be "different". You know, the lonely in a crowd type. Signing up in a place where you feel you only "sort-of" fit will not help that situation.

 

Also: I detect a lot of rigid thinking in your post. That there is only one way to get into college, etc. There are lots of families who prepare their kids for college without AP tests for example, or who only get through pre-calculus in high school. Do your DC's potential friends absolutely have to share both your faith and your academic ambitions? I'm not talking about letting them hang out with truly negative role models, just recognizing that people of good character may be less academically ambitious or may express their good character in a different way than through your particular church.

 

I guess my advice would be: keep putting yourself out there and trying different things, be open to possibilities, but be yourselves. I know it's not easy, but trying to be something you're not doesn't really help you find true friends, either.

 

--Janet

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My two cents: Sounds to me like you are doing an amazingly good job but second-guessing yourself (which we all do). My suggestion is not to find more opportunities or to change your approach, but rather to seek peace and just see the job through. We all have things we can't do, roles we can't play, and limits on our kids' opportunities. But there are many ways to raise a family, and many ways to prepare children for success in life. I think you are missing some "normal" stuff that you haven't been able to manage, but you are succeeding as a homeschooling Mom. Please give yourself a break. :D

[LNC]

I totally get where you are coming from! We moved to NC when my daughter was in 9th grade, and it has been very difficult for her to develop close relationships locally. Most of the female homeschoolers she has met have either been homeschooling for religious/sheltering reasons or radical unschoolers--neither of whom are pursuing serious academics. In hindsight, we probably should have joined the local coop when we moved here just for social reasons. For my dd, taking online courses through PA Homeschoolers has given her a great peer group and very close friendships with academically similar teens. It was so wonderful to find a group of peers to live through the stress of junior year (multiple SAT attempts to get top scores and multiple SAT II's and AP's). This fall she had a whole group of friends to give comments on her college app. essays. Granted most of her interaction is through skype, but these teens talk daily and the friendships are very real and lasting. She gets together with her out-of-state friends as often as possible. Last summer, she was able to spend time with 3 of her close out-of-state friends, and just last month a close friend from Florida had her parents swing 6 hours out of their way to visit her on a college tour. It is very interesting how well these kids get to know each other. It's not ideal, but she is making it work.

 

Based on our experience, having the SAT II and high scores on multiple AP's definitely made the college admission process easier--especially at UNC CH. She not only was accepted but also was invited to Scholarship Day (one of 200 out of 15,000 Early Action applicants) and invited into the honors college. The other homeschooler we know who was also invited to scholarship day has similar academics. UNC CH typically accepts around 40 homeschoolers a year--the other 38 may have done the coop route or taken a different path, but clearly UNC CH rolled out the red carpet for the high scoring SATmultiple SAT II/AP homeschoolers. Officially, these things might not be required but they allow homeschoolers to be directly compared to their traditionally-schooled peers in a way that reliance on coops does not.

 

 

Thanks for this. I agree, I don't think we are "overdoing it" academically. SAT 2 and AP is what is what UNC CH expects from homeschool, public or private school.

[LNC]

Janet C, I think I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure you understood what I said before I edited my post. I don't think our friends have to share our academic ambition. I also don't think there is only one path to college. I don't think I said anything like that. I know what my own children are capable of, and I'm only resposible for them after all. I don't want my children to be aligned with a coop/ university model school that won't serve them long term, just to be with friends.

[LNC]

I wouldn't sacrifice academics for cliques. It sounds to me that your kids have PLENTY of outside interaction--I'd continue to encourage that. Does she have friends at KaH? Perhaps make the effort to invite those girls out for more sewing or cooking. One of the things that makes memories is community service. I don't know if KaH emphasizes that but even if it doesn't, I would. Quite frankly, getting into a good school and thriving there will mean FAR more in the long run than any school clique! Every highschooler thinks THEY'RE the odd one because mom doesn't have a nice car, or they don't take exotic vacations or mom works and dad stays home or they have a disabled sibling or whatever! It's just part of teenage angst. If academics are important to your family, be proud of that. It's been my experience that often friends diverge in the high school years--each kid takes a different path. Run far away from folks who tell you that academics should take a back seat--they call it high SCHOOl for a reason--the primary purpose is learning--academics AND where they fit into the world. Another thought--most folks find their husbands/wives at college (if they go) and it's important to be at a school where those intellectually curious people are.

 

 

Thanks, this was very encouraging.

[Nan in Mass]

Thanks Jane and Nan.

 

Just wanted to restate bc I was rambling in my op, we have never taken an outside class or coop. That is why they feel left out.

 

Ah - I missed that. Sorry. Hmm... I think you are right to take your children's wish for social interaction seriously. I rather flubbed that with oldest and wish I hadn't. I think I might try to see if I could find some online classes of the sort of caliber you want that provide lots of opportunity for interaction with fellow students so there is the opportunity to make friends. Two of my children have have had (and still have) out-of-state friends. They didn't happen to be made through online classes, but with today's technology they have been easy to maintain. The one online high school class mine took had lots of interaction and they did wind up chitchatting with their fellow students daily, which was nice. I would just make sure they have plenty of non-internet activities, too, so they have opportunities to be with their peers, even if they aren't close friends. It sounds like you are doing that already. Too bad you can't do part-time at the uni model school. You might find, though, that even if your children went full time they would still feel like they didn't really belong. That is a pretty common feeling at that age.

 

Nan

[LNC]

Ah - I missed that. Sorry. Hmm... I think you are right to take your children's wish for social interaction seriously. I rather flubbed that with oldest and wish I hadn't. I think I might try to see if I could find some online classes of the sort of caliber you want that provide lots of opportunity for interaction with fellow students so there is the opportunity to make friends. Two of my children have have had (and still have) out-of-state friends. They didn't happen to be made through online classes, but with today's technology they have been easy to maintain. The one online high school class mine took had lots of interaction and they did wind up chitchatting with their fellow students daily, which was nice. I would just make sure they have plenty of non-internet activities, too, so they have opportunities to be with their peers, even if they aren't close friends. It sounds like you are doing that already. Too bad you can't do part-time at the uni model school. You might find, though, that even if your children went full time they would still feel like they didn't really belong. That is a pretty common feeling at that age.

 

Nan

She does have out of town friends who are kindred spirits. I think online classes in high school will help with that as well. One benefit of technology! Thanks for your encouragement.

[LNC]

My two cents: Sounds to me like you are doing an amazingly good job but second-guessing yourself (which we all do). My suggestion is not to find more opportunities or to change your approach, but rather to seek peace and just see the job through. We all have things we can't do, roles we can't play, and limits on our kids' opportunities. But there are many ways to raise a family, and many ways to prepare children for success in life. I think you are missing some "normal" stuff that you haven't been able to manage, but you are succeeding as a homeschooling Mom. Please give yourself a break. :D

Thanks for this. I have never seen my daughter whine, in spite of difficult circumstances. Watching her go through a prolonged "down" spell has been tough! I can see intellectually that I'm overreacting, and it has been so helpful to get other perspectives. Thanks.

[8filltheheart]

LNC,

 

I'm not sure I have a clear picture of your situation since I have only seen the editted version, but just wanted to let you know that there are others out here not doing co-op education. Why? B/c I am not willing to turn over academic control to outside sources that have not been vetted to meet our very specific needs which have always been subject/course specific. I want to homeschool to teach my kids at a level that meets my academic expectations and their academic abilities. There are the odd classes that we need an outside teacher for, but definitely not across all subjects. (otherwise it is really no different than "school.")

 

I do not see education and having friends as needing to be at odds or intertwined. As long as kids are having plenty of opportunity to be around friends and outside of home involved in their community, etc, balance should be achievable for both positive academic achievement and personal lives outside of home.